Will you be tricked, National Post?

Apparently so:
Liberal MPs urge review of party’s carbon tax plan…
Tories claim it

by kadyomalley on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:57am - 0 Comments

Apparently so:

Liberal MPs urge review of party’s carbon tax plan
Tories claim it shows split within Dion’s caucus
Three Liberal MPs have voted for a motion calling for a review of the effects of a carbon tax on agriculture and seeking protection for farmers, just days before the party plans to unveil a policy it hopes will be key to winning the next election.

As anyone who was up last night reading ITQ after midnight already knows, I’ve already devoted far too much time to unspooling the spin on this story – follow those links for background  – but here are a few quick notes on the Post’s version of events:

1) As far as I know, it was the Conservatives, not the Liberals, who – completely by accident, I’m sure – initially put out an inaccurate version of the amended motion that inadvertently inserted the word “negative” before “impacts”. (I’ve preserved the entire email chain here.)

It’s possible, I guess, that the Liberal communications team didn’t bother to double check the wording after the Conservatives backed off from their initial claim that the committee had condemned the carbon tax — which is what the original, unamended motion would have done. That would be pretty stupid, given Ryan Sparrow’s recent misadventures in media misinformation. Anyway, as far as I know, it wasn’t the Liberals who “changed their version of the wording mid-day,” as suggested by the Post.

2) To fully appreciate the strategic sneakiness – a term of admiration here at ITQ, I should note, provided you don’t get caught – of what the government was trying to do, you have to look at the context.

This was one of four anti-carbon tax motions that have been working their respective ways through various committees, and you can bet that there is a similarly gloatful press release on the successful passage of each and every one sitting in Ryan Sparrow’s outbox, just waiting for him to press send. Unfortunately for the Tories, two of those press releases will never see virtual daylight. The Finance committee voted the first motion down last Thursday, and Natural Resources will do the same just as soon as the Conservatives stop filibustering their own motion.

I’m still trying to track down the fourth – which is at Transport – but my guess is that what happened at Agriculture is as close as the Conservatives are going to get to pulling this plan off. That puts an entirely different spin on what the Conservatives claim – and the Post reports – is possible dissent within the Liberal caucus over the plan.

3) As for the “confusion” over the timing, as far as I know the only media outlet that claimed the plan would be released today was the National Post. I’m not sure if it’s entirely fair to use that as evidence of still more disarray and disorganization over the launch of the plan. Couldn’t John Ivison – or whoever told him it was going to go on Wednesday – simply have gotten it wrong?

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  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    *So Dun, are you saying that there won’t be an income tax reduction in this policy?*

    Sandi or something – I’m not going silent.

    If the Libs speak about reductions in income tax tomorrow, i will eat my shoe.

    If they actually implement any reduction on taxes, should they (yahew forbig) ever reach government under this dion, I will eat my hat and my shoes and my underwear.

    Tell me, though, when did the left become so big on income-tax reductions? When Mike Harris reduced income taxes, his opponents acted like he was just declared a dictatorship.

    No, talk about `income tax reductions’ is just more bs so as to lull a public that has been taxed to death, and then some.

  • boudica

    “If the Libs speak about reductions in income tax tomorrow, i will eat my shoe.”

    Dun, you better get ready for some pepto bismal then. What exactly do you think is referred to when they say “tax shifting?’

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    *Dun, you better get ready for some pepto bismal then. What exactly do you think is referred to when they say “tax shifting?’*

    it is exactly my point that `tax-shifting’ is just pr bs to lull people into believing that the state is not going to separate them all the more so from their hard-earned cash. (vide – McDinky’s health-care `premium’)

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    boudica not sandi, sorry, i replied to you, however

  • T. Thwim

    Try to keep up to this century, Dun. Every political party has moved to fiscal conservatism to one extent or another. Hell, in Saskatchewan, even the NDP was running balanced or surplus budgets for the last few years.

    It’s widely recognized by economists and those with common sense that income tax is the worst form of taxation (though easy to manage) because it removes incentive to work, and unfairly penalizes people who do not have behaviors that incur public costs. So where possible, people with sense are moving away from income taxes to taxes that penalize behaviors that incur public costs (such as how smoking incurs public health care costs, or how emitting pollution and waste incurs environmental costs borne by the public in the cleanups)

  • Dije

    dun roberts – I think the point is we are commenting on a proposal that we do not know the details of.

    All there is right now is spin, fearmongering and sloganeering.

    As for a healthcare tax… that is what happens when a government takes over that won’t cut fat and has to fill a huge deficit left from some well-cooked books. McGuinty will still go down as one of the largest hypocrites in Ontario for that move. And with the current opposition in Queen’s park, will get his third majority, ranking him among one of the most successful and dispised politicians in Ontario and Canadian history… he is a whole other discussion however and I think a prime example of why so many people are tuning out of politics. He avoids issues and problems until people stop asking about them.

    Sound familiar? *coughharpercough*

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    para starting with: *It’s widely recognized by economists and those with common sense that income tax is the worst form of taxation…*

    I agree with you there. HOwever, which governments are `moving away’ from income taxes?

    para: *…that is what happens when a government takes over that won’t cut fat and has to fill a huge deficit left from some well-cooked books.*

    Again, nothing to disagree about there.

    but of course, you CAN comment on a plan before its official release. The spin etc. will all be coming from the Liberal party and their many pamphleteers in the news media (probably, 90% of the pea- er press gallery, according to some surveys).

    it is precisely my contention, to state again, that there will not be any reduction in income taxes, to `shift’ the tax burden away from the gouging of everything taht Dion has in mind.

  • boudica

    “it is precisely my contention, to state again, that there will not be any reduction in income taxes, to `shift’ the tax burden away from the gouging of everything taht Dion has in mind.”

    Dun, you haven’t even read/heard/seen the contents of the proposal so what exactly are you basing yourself on to make such a statement?

  • http://deleted Sandi

    Perhaps some of you should do lunch to do your debate or exchange emails…..

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    *Dun, you haven’t even read/heard/seen the contents of the proposal so what exactly are you basing yourself on to make such a statement*

    This is an utterly ridiculous line of reasoning: no one can comment on anything until there is Official Word about it.

    The Liberals have made enough remarks about their scheme to give anyone who cares about not being gouged on the price of everything…

    To reiterate: the Tories have chosen to launch the ad campaign presumably because they know that the mainstream media (again, 90% opposed to Tories, according to surveys) will just as they always do, as stenographers of the LPC policy.

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    you may have something there Sandi

  • Anon

    dun roberts is 14 years old, the new proposed voting age, so go easy on him.

    If the Senate changes C-10, will Harper huff and puff, or stomp and thomp his way to the Governor General and call for an election?

  • Sophie

    don’t denegrate people under the voting age, please.

  • Brian

    Interesting that Kady would suggest the possibility that a reporter could ever get something wrong. This is the same Kady that defended Krista Erickson’s planting questions with the Liberals scandal to the bitter end.

    Its no coincidence then that this reporter happens to work at the National Post and by getting it wrong, he slandered Kady’s beloved fiberal party. Nothing to see here…moving along.

  • dan in van

    Brian popping up for more. I’ve never seen anything that suggests Kady has a specific party bias. She lambasts all for their follies and tom- and tammy-foolery. But the NaPo was outed and wearing mud on their face on trying to foist this rumour as fact. No one questions that it and the new Aspers are squewing right, crowding the Sun chain.
    As to defending Erickson – why not? Maybe she did something foolish but its been found that Tories and NdPers also mine the press gallery for good questions. They just don’t make the mistake of getting caught, that’s all. Ms Erickson paid a hefty price.
    Now, with the PM on tape admitting that an offer was made to a dying MP who had a vote that the PM coveted, what is the price he should pay? I’m sure you’ve rationalized that act.

  • Sophie

    I think Brian may work in the PMO. I’m not saying, I’m just saying…

  • http://www.macleans.ca Kady O’Malley

    Hey, reporters get things wrong all the time. Including this one. But what I found a little disingenuous was to then suggest, after being shown to have been wrong by the merciless editor that is reality, that somehow, the reporter had actually been right all along, and the fact that reality snippily failed to cooperate indicated a failing in the party, not a simple case of a faulty prediction. That, however, is far less worrisome to me than the fact that Ryan Sparrow *was*, in the end, apparently able to fool someone into running his largely hallucinatory version of what went down at committee. How on earth is he supposed to learn his lesson about being honest with the media if we let him get away with this stuff?

  • sw

    If the National Post couldn’t be bothered to get worked up about being cut out of the in-and-out search warrant “private briefings” then they certainly aren’t going to have a problem repeating…sorry, “reporting” inaccurate Conservative talking points.

    Full Comment, btw, is also your headquarters for scores of condemnations of the residential schools apology without one single specific criticism of our beloved Prime Minister.

  • gertrude

    “If the Libs speak about reductions in income tax tomorrow, i will eat my shoe.”

    So Dun, can I provide you with some salt and pepper?

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    let’s see the details, gertrude; there is simply no way that anyone can warrant that these Dion taxes on everything will be `offset’ by reductions in income tax.

    by the by, the Lie-berals DID release their carbon plan yesterday:

  • http://noneasyet dun roberts

    hxxp://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/18/liberal-carbon-plan.html?ref=rss

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