UPDATED: Liberal Leadership NotWatch: Oh, for heaven's sake.

by kadyomalley on Sunday, November 16, 2008 12:16am - 31 Comments

Seriously, guys, did you even try to work this out over the phone before resorting to passive aggressive press releases? As Colleague Wells points out (in inexplicably teeny tiny text), two of the three of you haven’t even officially joined the race, and I’m honestly not sure if that makes this whole thing more or less ridiculous. Maria Minna Judy Sgro’s suggestion to have y’all flip a coin is starting to sound better and better, although I’m not sure if that works if there are three of you. Rock, paper, scissors, anyone?

UPDATE: Well, more of a crosspost-with-a-little-bit-extra, really – but I think it’s interesting, anyway. I just posted the following to the comment thread over at Inkless:

It seems to be two of the three not-yet-official candidates who want to open the debate to the media; as far as I know, it wasn’t an issue for us until we found out about it through a press release by Bob Rae. By coincidence, however, the question of the “closed-door debate” actually did come up on Friday, courtesy of a Conservative-supporting commenter who demanded to know why we weren’t reporting *that* instead of focusing on the lockdown in Winnipeg. I’m starting to wonder whether this whole controversy didn’t spring, fully formed, from the head of a clearly-too-smart-for-the-War-Room Tory strategist (I’d say ‘operative’ but that has a pejorative slant, and it really would be very clever) who found out about the LPCO meeting and realized that this could be used to blunt criticism of the convention protocol.  

A quick search of Google News suggests that the story broke late yesterday night, but the comment in question was actually posted on Friday evening, which would tend to back up my theory that the controversy – or, at least, the coverage thereof – was helped along by Conservatives attempting to mute the complaints over closed doors at the convention, or at least the Liberal press release that went out that condemned the PM as the “master of the muzzle”.  I’d be curious to see if anyone can track down any posts or comments within the greater political blogosphere that went out before the Canadian Press report hit the wire – aside, of course, from the Inkless post, which appeared a few hours earlier. 

Not, I should note, that I’m suggesting that it wasn’t a spectacularly bad move on the part of the LPCO to stick to their initial decision to shut the press out of Sunday’s debate, even after two of the three candidates involved agreed to open it up to the media. That was just stupid. If the Conservatives were able to use friendly partisan bloggers and commenters to goad Rae’s campaign into putting out a press release, thereby launching the story into the headlines,  well … good for them.

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  • http://craigradcliffe.com Craig Radcliffe
  • Sophie

    I prefer an arm-wrestling session.

  • dan in van

    don’t know what minna minor said, but i know sgro tossed out the coin toss idea. maybe they should just go straight to dueling pistols…

  • http://www.truemuse.wordpress.com truemuse

    Darts.

  • Donna

    All three have said they are going to run, which is why they were invited to debate. All that is missing from two of them is the press release.

    What is important is that this is the first of what will be a ton of debates, and setting the precedent is very important. I imagine that is why Bob Rae put his foot down on this.

    Holding debates behind closed doors sounds a little too much like a certain party that had a thing in WInnipeg this weekend.

    I want to hear what these guys have to say, and frankly I live 4000 km away from Mississauga so I can’t be there.

    I’m with Rae on this one.

  • http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

    The big knock against Iggy is that he is gaffe prone. Rae naturally wants any of these to occur out in the spotlight, Iggy naturally wants them to happen behind closed doors. Sounds like the Ignatieff campaign wants to sell us a pig in a poke.

  • Anon

    The problem with the coin toss idea is that either Rae or Iggy will win. I’m not sure how that helps the Liberals because they’re both professional losers.

  • http://www.macleans.ca Kady O’Malley

    It *was* Judy Sgro, and I’ve corrected it. I blame convention-induced mental fatigue for the mixup. I’m also tentatively going to side with Rae on this one, barring the revelation of some crucial fact or bit of context of which the rest of us are currently unaware — it does seem like a terribly unfortunate precedent to set, particularly just two days after the party released a scathing rebuke of the Conservatives’ culture of secrecy in Winnipeg. That said, I can also understand why the Ignatieff campaign might be apprehensive about switching to an open format at the very last minute — I mean, you could drop Rae into the middle of a public debate on thirty seconds notice and he’d be fine; Ignatieff – or, at least, his campaign brain trust – clearly isn’t yet as comfortable with extemporaneous debate.

  • http://whatdoiknowgrit.blogspot.com James Curran

    Actually Anon, other than the last leadership, Bob is pretty much undefeated. And to boot, won a massive landslide majority in Ontario.

  • Mark

    James, you’re absolutely right – Bob is pretty much undefeated.

    He didn’t lose a seat in 2000, 2004, or in 2006, all years in which Liberal Leaders suggested he might run as a Liberal candidate.

  • Mark

    But then lo and behold, when the Leadership opens up, and subsequently when an easy riding opens up, Bob Rae steps up. Thanks, Bob.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Kady – I’ve said it before – and I’ll say it again – aside from Iggy’s Ego – from this point forward known as “Iggeo” – (it’s big enough to have a separate life and identity) – I – and I hope many other grassroots Liberals – would not support the guy because he has surrounded himself by such a toxic group of former Earnscliffe and other operatives of similar ilk!

  • Bill D. Cat

    I blame the Machiavellian One .

  • Sandi

    This is getting rather silly. It was ONE debate. Has anyone said all others will be closed door?

    Was Rae manipulated by the Tories?

    Why didn’t Rae moan and groan about it a week or 2 weeks ago? I thought the Lib execs planned and decided this and all were in agreement.

  • Trent

    Wascally Wabbit, I’m still undecided, but that is the main thing that turns me away from Iggy. And while I like Kinsella a lot, I have a feeling that with him on board the culture of team Iggy isn’t going to improve.

    That being said I agree with Rae’s position here, but I think his approach on this issue has been pretty slimy. So, uh, I guess I’m waiting for Jean Chretien to run.

  • Dr Riff

    what’s happening is the tagged iggy and he’s “it” and gonna interim while ….”corporate restructuring” goes on so you can pretty much see they’re done. he others will either form a party or morelikely pick an existing side.

  • Jack Mitchell

    “And while I like Kinsella a lot, I have a feeling that with him on board the culture of team Iggy isn’t going to improve.”

    They should really bring in G. Gordon Liddy to raise the moral tone a bit.

  • Savant

    I must admit, I find it fascinating how any particular Liberal story can somehow become a Conservative conspiracy. Honestly, it’s almost magical how an internal Liberal party issue has the Conservatives mentioned a full 4 times by the author. The Liberals were never mentioned when the Tories closed the doors in Winnnipeg, yet it seems the Liberals can’t do anything without those dastardly Conservatives somehow playing a role.

    Reminds me of 1984 (book/movie) where people are operatives of Goldstein and they don’t even know it. Someone should put all this conspiracy junk into a book and sell it – I’m sure it would be a hit.

  • Dr Riff

    Mr Savant: its because they’re used to inflating their own impoverished egos at other people’s expense, they project the follies which exist in their own minds onto those they’re jealous of subconsciously.
    its latent manifestations we call “news”. not quite fodder for the masses but more like green eggs and ham.

  • John.K

    Savant,

    It’s because the Conservatives have form. The Liberals on the other hand are just bumblers.

  • Dr Riff

    i never did see such agreement on such divergent positions

  • John.K

    Anything is possible thru skilled diplomatic exchange of views.

  • Michael S

    “If the Conservatives were able to use friendly partisan bloggers and commenters to goad Rae’s campaign into putting out a press release, thereby launching the story into the headlines, well … good for them.”

    And it shows the weakness of Rae’s campaign: Never let your opponent define you. He just let his ultimate opponents as leader define him. He’s already lost to the Conservatives before he’s even announced himself as a Liberal leadership candidate.

  • Dr Riff

    anything to keep the dream alive?

  • http://phantomobserver.com PhantomObserver

    Actually, for methods of choosing the next Liberal leader, I’ve figured out ten:

    http://phantomobserver.com/blog/?p=1306

    Hey, they’re definitely better than the methods the Liberals have used so far. ;)

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