Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'Democratic right'

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:07pm - 38 Comments

“And the Opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition with the separatists they promised voters would never happen.”

From Stephen Harper’s remarks tonight.

Is that fundamentally correct? Is there anything in our democracy or rules of Parliament that bars such a thing as this coalition from going forward?

Deleted.

Let’s rephrase that. Shouldn’t have used the L-word. It’s too loaded and implies an accusation that was not intended. A year of watching Question Period should have taught me how poorly we are served by the careless use of language. Apologies.

The questions above are asked honestly out of legitimate confusion. I actually tend to agree there’s a way to read that sentence as not incorrect.

Tags: Bloc Québécois, coalition government, conservatives, Gilles Duceppe, house of commons, Jack Layton, liberals, NDP, Parliament, Stéphane Dion, Stephen Harper

More by Aaron Wherry

Terry

Mackee> Oh, don’t talk about education. Surely you could imagine so-called “educated people” (by which I assume you mean left wing people) being upset if two right of center parties pulled the exact same trick six weeks after an electing a minority left-wing government.

Surely all the people who are saying “everything is fine you should just get over it” would have said:

“Whelp, I think these people will put in policies that will lead to long term problems and work directly against my bread and butter economic issues. I also think they will intrude in the way I live my private life and impose values on me that I don’t accept. But everything is okay, because it is technically allowed under the parliamentary system.”

Hell no. These educated people would be screaming bloody murder, just as we are. It can’t be that hard to imagine if the situations were reversed.
Rich

Terry, I don’t think you get it. There’s no “trick” being played. Harper forgot he doesn’t have a majority and overplayed his hand. Maybe there’s a lack of civics education in Canada but we elect MP’s, not governments. And while confidence votes may be in your mind, “extraordinary and rarely used powers”, they’re used all the time. It’s only rare that they fail because most minority governments aren’t stupid enough to provoke the Opposition when they are outnumbered.

So Conservative voters are pissed that their party may have blown their government due to their own hubris? Too freakin’ bad. Doesn’t mean the process or the Opposition are at fault. The system is working as it should (at least so far) and the Opposition’s job is to oppose the government, hold them to account, and try to offer an alternative should the government lose the confidence of the House.
Mackee

I believe in the rule of law, of Parliamentary rules. If a coalition would be formed between the Conservatives and NDP for example and they were able to form governement, then so be it.
Why is it you assume educated people are “left-wingers”?
I know plenty of lawyers, accountants, but also students others who are very much Conservatives or right of centre Liberals and proud of their education and their politics.

But honestly, if people were a bit more educated they would come up with better answers then to call all of this “stupid” on National TV.
Ignorance is not an excuse.
Mackee

Rich — The system is working as it should (at least so far) and the Opposition’s job is to oppose the government, hold them to account, and try to offer an alternative should the government lose the confidence of the House.

I just had to say, good point, that’s exactly what is happening!! More people should head to Parliament and take a tour and learn about this.
Terry

Again, it isn’t because people on the right don’t understand that this isn’t technically possible. Overblown rhetoric aside, we have more guns (and likely greater support among the military) so if we really thought that the rule of democratic law had come to an end we would be taking other steps to deal with it.

I call bull&*@^ on the attitude that the left would not be calling this an affront to the will of the people if the same tactics were used by two right of centre parties on a left wing minority. Was it Harper’s fault? Well, he did admit it was to his caucus, so perhaps. It still doesn’t change the fact that people are going to be angry about it, and seek every rhetorical and political tool to prevent it.

As for the issue of education, you know very well what you were implying Mackee. Don’t be cute. If I have the leisure time to screw around commenting on a message board, then you should probably think I have a college education too.
Rich

So if you don’t really think democracy has been violated why are the Conservatives bleating on about a coup and sedition? The only explanation is that it’s a desperate scare tactic used to try and cling to power.

The only people who are going to be angry are those who voted for Harper and it’s clear their anger should be directed at him – he was in power and forgot to count 155. He promised a stimulus plan and then played politics with it instead. Even after all this he could have extended an olive branch to the Opposition, saying he made a mistake and then he was prepared to cooperate on an economic plan – which is the real issue here.

Your argument basically boils down to this – Conservatives will be pissed at the Opposition for a) daring to oppose the government and b) actually having the chance to bring down a government that doesn’t have majority support in the House. Basically, they’re only in favour of democracy when their side wins.

I’m pissed at the Liberals for nominating an unelectable candidate for leader, but that’s they’re fault, not the system’s.
Mackee

Wow so you actually think the military would have to step in?! This is Canada we’re talking about not a third world country.
You may have an education but the rest of the people out there making outrageous comments should get informed before saying ridiculous comments.
Terry

Yeah Rich, but you aren’t switching parties are you? There are people you are angry with in your family, and then there are your enemies. Harper is pushing for a voluntary CWB so he’ll probably have me as long as he holds that policy position. Some remember losing half the value of their house during the days of NEP, so they’ll never vote Liberal until the Liberal party admits wrongdoing and makes amends. It isn’t like there is any other party around as an alternative to the Conservative Party.

As for being in favour of democracy only when we win… yeah, that’s kinda the point of democracy. You try to extend your will on the system as an individual citizen. When things directly against your interests, you marshal the horses and you play politics to win. So given that it looks like we are being pushed out of government in a highly irregular fashion, we are certainly going to let it be known that we are displeased and will try to stop it.

As for our supposed bad manners and lack of civility, surely one doesn’t have to look so far to see Liberal rhetoric of the Reform Party or the Conservative Party not supporting “Canadian Values(tm)” and any number of other slanders on their character. So the high minded horror at the lack of the Conservative Party’s manners certainly rings a little hollow to me.
Duf

Harper did not need to make this a vote of confidence. He was ramming things through the last parliament and came back with a minority parliament and thought his bully tactics would work again.

This time the Opposition did what they should have done in the last Parliament, they called him on his confidence vote.

Guess what, he blinked, now the Prime Minister knows he created a blunder and so do his fellow Conservatives. The House if functioning as it should, if the Opposition can form a coalition it already has its mandate from the electorate, the electorate voted them into their seats.

What disgusts me is the fact that our Hon. Prime Minister has pitted fellow Canadians, us in the West against my fellow Canadians in Quebec.

Sorry, I don’t want that kind of Prime Minister leading my country.
http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

““And the Opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition with the separatists they promised voters would never happen.”

What does ‘democratic’ mean?

Do the Libs/NDP have technical right to form Coalition and take over, the answer is ‘probably’ according to the rules but we don’t know for certain because there are no precedents/conventions that have been established that allow a coalition of 113 seats to take power from party in power with 143 seats.

However, all this ignores the electorate. I know supporters of the Coalition are keen to point out how we don’t elect a PM, we elect a local MP, but that’s all sophistry. The vast majority of people who vote feel they are voting for PM or party when they vote for their local MP and the Coalition clearly doesn’t have broad public support.

Is it democratic to take control when you don’t have a significant proportion of the people behind you when you usurp power?
Rich

Terry, you’re not being “pushed out of government”. You forgot that you don’t have enough support to govern in any way you choose. That’s your own fault. It’s only “highly irregular” because most minority governments are able to remember this.

All the talk of manners, anger, and propriety is just bluster.

Jwl, you say, “The vast majority of people who vote feel they are voting for PM or party when they vote for their local MP and the Coalition clearly doesn’t have broad public support.”

If you’re going to bother casting a vote it’s a good idea to learn a bit about the system in which you are participating. Majority / minority governments are very simple concepts.

The Coalition may not clearly have broad public support. Neither do the Conservatives – 38% of the vote in the election. None of this matters. Our system of government allows both sides the opportunity to govern based on the decisions of the members we elect. If there’s any sophistry here it’s the Conservatives trying to convince Canadians that the Opposition has no right to replace them.
Chris

Well the difference is that the Conservatives ran as seeking to form a government. The coalition parties ran explicitedly denying that they would form a coalition after the election. They never put the matter to the voters, and they certainly never put the matter of a coalition between Liberals and Dippers in a menage a trois with the Bloc on the ballot. While only 38% of the population voted for the Conservatives 0% voted for the proposed alternative.
Partisan non-partisan

Why did you take out the l-word?

If there’s one thing Harper has proven this week is that he’s a big fat liar.