Thanks Pol – especially that you would say that without conceding your view, because it’s right. And you LK, pwnd me. Tried to explain where I was coming from here.

Eugene – yeah I lost all real respect for Harper when he didn’t think twice about pasting the redo question on Dion. The man has no real concern for the country. Sadly the only thing I want less than Harper is a coalition.

And Dion ooooozes incompetency. One only has to point a camera at him for a demonstration.

The troika set this in motion when they decided to pull this gambit…prior to the house even sitting.

Game and Set to Harper. Match is still in play.

And with or without the media Dion has let Layton and Duceppe
turn him and the Liberal party into a laughing stock.

CBC neutral indeed.

I loved that post-Meech period in QC, didn’t you? Awesome, another referendum on the horizon. Although with the death of Responsible Government, we can dispense with the whole Peace, Order & Good Government hoo-haa and just go straight for military intervention. Unless, of course, we could find some smart, well-spoken guy, like a top intellectual or something, take to the airwaves, classrooms & conference halls to argue the case for Canada. I mean, I’m sure we’d show our appreciation for such selfless idealism by fair treatment of him in the English media, even as he gets ripped by the nationalist, not to say, separatist, French media and lives with daily death threats. I mean, after seeing how Dion has been treated, I’m sure there are dozens of such francophones just raring to go. But such fellows should understand that just because the Anglo media doesn’t speak a lick of French, the fact they may speak English grammatically isn’t enough if they’ve got ,horrors!, an accent.

I am struck by how few Anglos have realised the media treatment of Dion has made the separatists’ case. I mean, if Anglos will treat Captain Canada this way, then what can the rest of us expect? And why would any idealistic federalist ever speak up again, or enter politics? One day, unfortunately, Canada will need Dion or someone like him again, to fight for the country in QC. How many takers do you think there will be?

GIve it up. NDP and Liberal supporters say and write hateful things about Conservative supporters, too. For example, while being personally irreligious, I’m appalled at the language directed from “progressive” origins toward Christians. I know plenty of fundamentalists, and not very many who genuinely wish to persecute others for any reason.

Accusing people of proceeding from anger and hatred is in itself an intolerant remark. Is there a PC manual somewhere that sets down which groups may be named and slagged, and which may not? Throw stones; but don’t pretend there are some who are without sin.

So…. why do people still b_tch about Trudeau asking rhetorically, “Why should I sell your wheat?”

They aren’t even moods, they are institutions.

Once upon a time there was a subsidy called the Crow Rate, which was put in place by the government to ship grain cheaply by rail. The CWB came along later as a government measure to assist marketing grain during the depression, then it was made mandatory in 1943 as a war measure to control the price of flour and ensure a supply to Great Britain.

The Crow Rate was abolished in 1995 by the Chretien government. Largely a few large corporations exist anymore that buy grain, and the CWB sells to them. There was no incentive for either institution to change the way they did business because the shipping costs fell entirely on to the farmers themselves. So we lost the grain subsidy that was to support Canada’s ports and rail lines, and we cannot choose to ship it to markets on our own south of the border. Things carry on largely as they were before the Crow rate was cancelled.

While there has been a flowering of smaller companies that have sprung up on the prairies to value-add to secondary crops, but due to the stranglehold of the CWB, there has been no diversification of industry for wheat. This is because the large agricultural corporations don’t see any profit to establishing a domestic base for processing wheat, and farmers are stymied from doing it themselves by rules that state you have to sell your wheat to the CWB and then buy it back again. Since they are paying the same price for their own crop as Cargill does, they can’t price themselves competitively. The CWB has also proved absolutely useless for over 20 years to come up with a system to handle organic farming. It has done so because it is unable to adapt because there are no penalties in lost business for failure. We have to sell to them.

So the biggest stumbling block to farmer-owned value added wheat products and organic wheat products is the CWB. That’s why we can only look enviously over at Ontario and the Atlantic provinces with what they have been able to accomplish, where you don’t have to sell to a mandatory marketing board.

“Add Manitoba, Saskatchewan, southern Manitoba and most of B.C. to that archangel, which means more population and more geographic area.

Still only one quarter of Canada’s population, even if including the Yukon and the territories. Still think you guys are hard done by? You want 25% of people to lord it over the other 75%?

I smell a revolution in the air.

I didn’t state or insinuate that I believe you are lying. I stated that I try to have faith (possibly naïvely) that most bodies are not corrupt. I didn’t say the Wheat Board isn’t. It may well be, as you certainly believe. And I don’t believe you’re lying.

Is the problem that your father doesn’t feel he gets a fair price for his wheat, or that he can not sell it period? (This is an honest question–I really want to understand what’s going on, from your perspective).

If the CWB truly wants to be in the best interest of my father, then it would allow him the freedom to pursue his own interests. If you think I am lying about the corruption in the CWB, it wouldn’t be my father’s concern anymore how corrupt it was if he wasn’t forced to be under its power.

If the CWB truly has the connections, the resources, and the expertise to get a good price for the wheat, it will have no problem getting customers. Private grain brokers exist across the prairies for other crops, and even the marketing allowed within the restrictions of the CWB.

Yes, respectfully, I agree that unionization and political action are viable options if there are multiple dissenting voices. And I don’t disagree that the possibility of corruption exists in large federal agencies like the Wheat Board, but would like to *maybe naïvely optimistically* think that most large agencies are fair and impartial to those they regulate.

Wow… I guess we don’t need to do much governing then. We’re just supposed to accept the regulations as they stand, no matter how well they don’t work. I guess people who wanted the right to form unions, or to have better occupational health and safety guidelines should have just sucked it up or found a better line of work too.

In a word, yes.

If I were in any one of the multitude of regulated professions in this country and I didn’t like how the regulatory body ‘interfered’ with the practice of my work, I would have to either suck it up and abide by their regulations or leave that line of work (leaving with it all of the years of training, money, etc. I’d put into it–i.e., everything I’d ever built).

Wow, we sure are unreasonable for not supporting people like you!

Jack Mitchell> I’ll call you “Your Worship” once for every ultimatum that has actually been satisfied that you can name.

I was just going to tell Terry the same thing, but didn’t have the cajones. Thanks for sayin’ it.

If you don’t like the game, play another game. If the Wheat Board pisses you off so much, tell them to shove it and do something with your life that makes you happy.

Well, that’s what this is all about, isn’t it? Ultimatum after ultimatum from the Western populists, and finally the rest of the country says, “That’s enough.” Turns out the rest of the country CAN get by without all those seats. But it’s the Western populists who refuse to compromise, who think that their agenda is so friggin’ righteous that it justifies every dirty trick in the book. Thank God the joke’s on you guys this time.

I don’t think Aaron has to insinuate anything. Do the research, guy. Watch some CPAC. Read the writing on the walls–literally. READ THE WRITING ON THE WALLS OF TORONTONIANS.

You are a wage earning professional. However, the government has decided that you will have to work by law through a placement agency who will decide where you work and how much you are paid. You are told that the majority of people support the placement agency, but it is the placement agency itself and political interests associated with it that tell everyone so. When your own political groups and grassroots protests do the polling it seems to be the opposite.

You’d rather trust the latter because you see in the placement agency rampant nepotism, a dearth of qualifications, and prize contracts being awarded to placement agency supporters. You aren’t actually sure exactly what the placement agency does anymore, since you largely use a job bank to search for your own jobs, and simply give them a cut of what you earn. Even though this placement agency is supposedly “democratically elected” you watch people openly cheating during the vote.

Now you can’t find work outside the placement agency, or else the government will fine you and take away your laptop, car and anything else you need to work. If you refuse to hand over the fines and accept the seizure of your property, the government will find in contempt and throw you in jail.

So don’t you goddamn tell me this is just like paying taxes or following regulations. This is about a certain political organizations protecting Liberal jobs with contract parity with CUPE, and good old fashioned socialist ideology.

As for Canada, it could be good place with a little bit of RREEEFFFFOOOORRRMMMM! But bribing Quebec forever to keep people in Canada who are simply never going to be happy. As for why Canada should care about us… if you can get by without our seats you are welcome to do so. I’d start thinking about trying to develop some sort of party presence in the west though just in case Ontario doesn’t vote Liberal forever. Diversifying your portfolio is generally a good idea no matter what business you are in.

I disagree (about the first part; not about the last part). The disagreement about Preston Manning’s Reform Party was with its policies, not Manning’s approach to power. The disagreement here is largely rooted in Harper’s pattern of behaviour of being extremely partisan in his politics, refusing to reach out in conciliation to any of the other parties in this minority parliament. On a personal level, manning had the respect of his colleagues, and a number of non-Conservative Canadians. Through effective appearances on the Air Farce and on This Hour Has 22 Minutes, he showed himself to be a decent human being with a good sense of humour, and that did as much as anything to make Canadians stop and think about what he was saying.

I honestly believe that Preston Manning was one election away from gaining a majority of seats in the House of Commons, for a number of reasons. One, Jean Chretien’s arrogance was beginning to show. Two, Manning was a known (and respected) entity, unlike Stockwell Day who proved himself to be not ready for prime time. Finally, it was the year 2000, and Ontario hadn’t yet soured on Mike Harris’ Common Sense Revolution — although that time would come very quickly.

C’mon, give me a break — if Harper wanted to change the law, he’d change the law. “Shut down by a judge” — the answer to that is to pass some legislation!! Wheat sales are not a Charter issue! Blame your own guy for that if you care to.

Glad to hear you don’t really care that much about Canada. So why should Canada care about you again?

Sincere apologies everyone for that disgusting behaviour – also for not having worked harder to defeat him last time round.

Most of what Harper pushed past the house was paying off some interest or other, so there was a reason besides simple fear of running an election that kept the liberals from voting against them. If they had moved on the issues that really mattered for supporters, they would have just been voted down in the house, and it would have been an election on “Harper’s scary right-wing agenda”. The Harper government also tried to make changes to the CWB, but were shut down by a judge who was a good Liberal. So now my father is in a state of contractual obligation, despite having never signed a contract agreeing that has to sell his wheat and barley to the board in perpetuity, to an agency that has the power of the state but isn’t officially part of the government. Isn’t it wonderful?

Uh, we must be talking about a different Harper…

The Tories have had years now to implement that and they’ve done nothing.

Anyway, my point is that if it’s not those five then it’s five issues that “Western aliens” pin their colours to and say, “This or nothing! This or we separate! You hear me? You HEAR me?”

It’s not patriotic. And then they have the gall to complain about the Bloc. Well look in the mirror, populist West, you’ll see the Bloc.

This should apply to those people as well don’t you think?

Isn’t about time for a Bic lighter registry?

the cons should be critisized for using the word traitor. absolutely. roundly. To think that they’re doing it dishonestly is wrong.

If this were true, which I can’t believe, I don’t see how this makes it better! To think that perhaps the Tories honestly believe that Dion and Layton plan the violent overthrow of the government, or to give away military or scientific secrets to foreign governments is actually scarier to me than the idea that their using it as a (dishonest) rhetorical flourish to get people riled up.

da wolfe is basically saying “Sure, it’s unfortunate that they’re calling the opposition traitors, they shouldn’t do that… but they really, really mean it. It’s not like their not honestly saying what they truly believe”

If the Conservatives honestly believe that Stephane Dion and Jack Layton are traitors, then there’s something much worse going on in the Tory caucus then even I believed.

Convince your party to play nice and drop the demagogue Harper — then the ROC might give your guys a mandate to have some of your wishes granted.

These are the issues that the Tories campaign on in the Tory ridings. So don’t tell me there is no list of demands.

Now, if you think that area is unimportant, and you think you can do without it, you can keep screwing it. Just don’t be surprised if they don’t vote for you. It isn’t evil to not vote for people who have no interest in representing you.

Alberta represents 10% of Canada’s population. In the last election, 1.9 million Albertans voted. Of that total, 1.2 million voted Conservative (impressive). So 1.2 million people or 3% of Canada’s population think Alberta deserves a bigger voice in Canada?

You know what Jack Mitchell — any sane Canadian not from Alberta ought to give Alberta the attention you suggest. Three percent of the population that wants to tell the rest of the country what to do looks parasitic to me. Or could they be labeled ‘traitors’ for wanting to impose their (tiny) minority view on the rest of us?

Put that in your gun and shoot it, da wolfe!

Maybe not the absolutely worst thing to happen, given how high tensions have gotten now. Except that it will take me some time to get over my fury that in the midst of an economic crisis, our Government chooses to respond by raising the number and cost of cabinet, and then by throwing 300 million of our dollars after another 300 million for something that initially could have been deferred for another year.

I understand people not wanting the Coalition. But please, do not reward Mr. Harper for his blatant, contemptuous attack on the will of the people.

We can’t allow Harper to hold democracy hostage by asking for election after election until a majority mandate is given to him. He is a waste of taxpayer money and a waste of our time. Parliament democracies are expected to work with minority governments from time to time. He has not accepted this most fundamental of democratic facts and must resign.

I hope the GG gives Harper a timeout (not the prorogue though), like the child that he is. As for the rest of the government and the country, we can move on without him.

“My fellow Canadians, (inaudible). Thank you, and God bless Canada.”