Dear Liberal Party: That's not actually an answer.

by kadyomalley on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:45am - 241 Comments

… At least, not to the (relatively straightforward) question that was asked

 

A spokeswoman for Mr. Ignatieff refused to say whether the new Liberal Leader will allow any of his members to continue to advocate openly for reduced access to publicly funded abortions.

“I don’t think we are in a position to answer those questions today. I think they are speculative at this point,” said Jill Fairbrother, adding that it is impossible to know if the committee mentioned by Mr. Bruinooge even exists and, if so, whether there are members from parties other than the Conservatives.

“This is a matter that was settled by the Supreme Court more than 20 years ago and that’s our view on it today,” Ms. Fairbrother said.

First of all, of course the “committee” exists – although to be fair to Ms. Fairbrother, it’s not an official House committee, per se, but an informal, ad hoc group of parliamentarians who have been meeting periodically in relative obscurity for years.  

The membership has always been secret, although there are MPs who are almost certainly on the list, including those who have spoken at rallies like the annual March for Life, as well as the various chairs and vice-chairs who have allowed their names to be attached to the very occasional press release that surfaces under the PPLC letterhead (yes, it has – or had – its own letterhead under Bruinooge’s predecessor, Maurice Vellacott).

One of those vice-chairs, as it happens, was the (now retired) backbench Liberal MP Paul Steckle, who held the position for at least four years without facing repercussions from the party, despite his longtime – and very public association –  with the group, and former Liberal MP and PPLC supporter, Tom Wappell, who – on the occasion of his retirement from politics - delivered a somewhat embittered parting rebuke not to his former party, but the Canadian Catholic leadership for, in his view, all but ignoring the existence of the pro-life contingent on the Hill. After his self-described twenty years of sustained and unapologetic opposition to abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage,  if anyone was begging for a slapdown from a PPLC-averse party, it would have been Tom Wappell – yet he sat as a member of the Liberal caucus for his entire career.

To put it bluntly, Ms. Fairbrother may not be able to confirm the existence of this caucus, but if she’d bothered to ask around, anyone who has spent any time on the Hill  would have been able to fill her in – the question that remains, however, is whether there will be any change in how the party handles it. 

Compare the Liberal response to what the NDP’s Karl Belanger told ITQ when we sent along a similar inquiry about what fate might befall any of their members who were found to be members of the PPLC: 

I can’t really speculate on what would happen, but I can tell you that we had MPs in the past who supported legislation that could be qualified as “pro-life”, and they weren’t “booted out”.

That said, it is easy for Mr. Bruinooge to claim he has a secret club.  I could also claim, for instance, that there is a secret club of Conservative MPs ready to support the coalition government. 

 

Of course, it’s easy – or easier, at least – for Belanger to answer the question; following Bev Desjarlais’ departure from caucus in 2005 and the retirement of Bill Blaikie earlier this year, there just aren’t any NDP MPs left in the PPLC, which renders the issue of repercussions somewhat moot. Even so, Irene Mathyssen was unequivocal in her response; she told the Globe that “no NDP MP would be expelled from caucus for holding anti-abortion views. ‘We have a policy where we talk things through.’” 

Over on the Liberal side of the House, out of 27 MPs who voted for Ken Epp’s infamous private members bill to protect the “unborn victims of crime” last spring, just fifteen remain in caucus following the election. Several of those members made it clear at the time that they were unlikely to support the bill at final reading. But there are still a few whose names are almost certain to appear on the PPLC membership list, and who would be among the parliamentarians that Bruinooge is apparently hoping will be at the forefront of the debate over abortion that he is seemingly so keen on reopening. 

Given that fact, pointing out that the matter was “settled” by the Supreme Court might be an acceptable answer to questions on the official Liberal position on the issue, but it does absolutely nothing to address Bruinooge’s claim that he has supporters from all parties, but whose identities must be kept secret for their own political protection. But the most inexplicable thing about the Liberals’ non-responsive response is how unnecessary it was.

If the longstanding hands off policy towards the PPLC still applies, Fairbrother could have said that as far as her party is concerned, it is an issue of conscience, and, as such, MPs are free to associate with any and all likeminded colleagues. If the new leader wants to initiate a new policy, and MPs will, in fact, be censured for taking part in overtly anti-abortion campaigning, or if it is something that will have to be discussed by caucus,  she could have said that instead. By playing vague instead of giving a clear response, the Liberals have guaranteed that the next phase of this story will no longer focus on the PM’s less than enthusiastic reaction to this latest outbreak of freelancing by a backbench MP, but the apparent incoherence on the other side of the aisle. 

 

 

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  • http://DogFood Robin

    Invalid question,obscure,sick question that does not require any respons.
    Liberal member did right thing by ignoring this garbage question.

  • kody

    When the media jumps on board with the shaming, wholeheartedly, public shaming becomes a critical aspect of enforcing (in a relatively thuggish sort of way) one’s belief systems. It makes it very difficult for the other side to muster the political courage necessary to advance a real honest debate.

    The left, with its ever increasing totalitarian tendancies (see Jonah Goldberg’s book for a massive compendium of examples), uses shaming, labelling and branding, under the “progressive” label, with thuggish precision;

    Thus:

    - simply wishing to engage in a debate about global warming makes one a “denier” (a term which gained prominence regarding despicable indivivuals who denied the obvious horrors of the holocaust);

    - a pro choice advocate is a backwards thinking anti-woman bigot;

    - one who believes that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman, while willingingly accepting that gays have all the rights that we do, and should be entitled to the protections afforded to such marital like unions, are “homophobic” bigots (ironically anti-Christian bigotry [the acceptable kind of bigotry in the 'progressive' rule book] is employed with much fervor to create this label and in the above case as well);

    - and further to the above, simply being a Christian is now the scarlet letter in public discourse, which immediately renders the holder of those views illigitimate (who could forget the previous two elections, where anti-christian bigotry was utilized by the left, and celebrated in the media [just imagine a Liberal member going on national television with a mocking Mohammad doll...it really is unimaginable actually].

    ect,

    ect,

    ect.

    • http://macleans.ca kc

      Anyone interested in a very different take on Goldbergs book, should look up Andrew Potters’ review here at Maclean’s. Sorry to interrupt you kody, were you saying someting?

    • Jack Mitchell

      I remember the days when I thought “etc.” was spelled “ect”; I think it was my Grade 5 teacher who corrected me. It stands for “et cetera,” Latin for “and the rest,” i.e. “and so on.” Thus the first three letters, e t c, are used in the abbreviation. I admit this is the first time I have seen it spelled ect three times in a row, and I’m a student of kody’s thought.

      • John.K

        I believe in this case, “ect” is an abbreviation for Electro Convulsive Therapy.

        Evidently, Kody has been insufficiently treated, at only 3 courses.

  • PEIMAC13

    As a side note away from the whole abortion debate ( and possibly the articles premise) is that sometimes MP’s have views that are against their party and/or official Ottawa. It’s a valid question as to what would happen if supposed appearance of dissent on a moral issue arose within a party. ( A very real issue in Chretien and Harper’s respective caucuses as well as others.)
    Do we wish our MP’s to have opinions and beliefs or merely vote rank and file?

    • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

      “Do we wish our MP’s to have opinions and beliefs or merely vote rank and file?’

      I have been thinking about this recently since I read an article in UK newspaper about how there were 100 instances where at least one labour backbencher voted against the PM Brown’s legislation during ’07-’08 session and not one of them was expelled. I think the article said at least one member of labour voted against 30% of all bills passed through Parliament. It was a record total, Cons/Major were second, but UK backbenchers have a long history of voting against their party without much blowback.

      I am far from expert on voting patterns of Canadian parliamentarians but my impression is that they don’t go against their party’s wishes all that often. I would love to see our MPs vote their conscience more and behave less like the sheep they currently are.

      • Jack Mitchell

        I wonder if British party leaders have veto power via the nomination papers, as ours do.

        One easy way around it would be to require all political donations to be made to individual MP’s campaigns, not to the Death Star parties themselves. As it is, the funding rules do a lot to enforce party discipline.

        • peimac

          I guess the ultimate question is whether the Canadian electorate vote for MP’s or for a party. Given many of the comments on various issues I believe strongly that Canadians have Americanized their voting practices to voting for Leaders and Party’s instead of their own representative. Outside of the respective riding’s of party leaders… Canadians do not vote for the Prime Minister or against him. Popular vote means very little and shouldn’t when it comes to leaders unless we wish for a systematic change in governance.

          • http://macleans.ca kc

            That would exlplain why so many `con bloggers can’t seem to grasp this elemenal facet of our system.

          • Jack Mitchell

            Well, you’re surely right to a large extent, peimac. Question is: what is simpler and easier (also better) — to fully Americanise (i.e. presidentialise) the system or to trying to fix it? I’d say, the latter is easier, hard as it will be. One good step would be to liberate MP’s from the grip of party HQ, as that would generate better MP’s whose free-wheeling ways would ipso facto educate the public that they vote for MP’s and can get a good one if they try.

  • Cameron

    I would hope that the official answer is a clumsy way of saying “that is not a matter on which the leader can make a decision; policy is made by the party caucus, and they are on vacation right now”.

  • kody

    ti-guy,

    who has strangely dissappeared, had a penchant for using the ‘liar’ allegation at the drop of a hat.

    as this mike t fellow does.

    ti-guy, laced his comments with attacks and insults.

    as does this new mike t.

    Ladies and gentlemen I present to you ti-guy [mike t.].

    Thank you.

    Thank you very much.

    I’ll be here for the second show, and remember to try the veal.

  • Darrell

    If the debate has to be framed as ‘should a woman’s right to choose be restricted under the reasonable limits clause’ you’ve already lost, Kody.

    • Paul

      Darrell and his other brother Darrell have decided a loser in the debate.

      I’ve been at this since the early 70′s. Trust me, it is never over.

      Public opinion favours appathy for the moment ( to busy watching Dancing with Stars and Big goof wrestling).

      This debate should get off the personal attacks and the silly control talk.

      Laws are passed all the time to restrict personal freedoms. Get over it!

      Constructive debate should argue ideas.

      For example: If taking the life of a new born is against the law, how do we justify the lack of a law to protect that same ‘being’ minutes before birth? At the moment NO laws exist.

      • T. Thwim

        And if we do enact such a law, is a woman who smokes, drinks, or eats too many cinnabons during the first few weeks of her pregnancy guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Do we imprison her for this life endangering behavior?

        Also, if we feel it is legitimate to require a woman to donate the use of her blood and other organs to another “human” (accepting for now that definition), do we also feel it is legitimate to require those people who can donate a kidney, lung, or liver do so where there another person has the need for such?

        • Paul

          I’ll try and answer your questions with existing law. Do we run a foul of the law by smoking in others personal space in this country? Look at all the increasing no smoking laws being enacted.

          You said “life endangering behavior”. That’s also covered by laws. We just have to decide when we become ‘human’ and worthy of protection.

          In our society a doctor is compelled by law to save your life in many instances. Once again, all of our debating hinges on when we agree life begins. If it begins at the beginning as I see it, then a woman is compelled to ” donate the use of her blood and other organs” to sustain that life. It is her obligation as it was her mothers and her mothers mother.

          The second part of your question dealing with forcing people to donate organs does take place in some countries. I would never be in favour of that state intrusion whether your live or dead.

          • Darrell

            The Newhart reference is indeed very 70s.

            Would you believe I’ve heard it before?

            Anyways, there was a qualifier on my statement – and my point was that if the pro-life side has retreated to the point that they’re willing to acknowledge that a woman has a constitutional right to end a pregnancy (which is a corollary of invoking the reasonable limits clause) they’ve effectively given up the debate into the hands of the courts (the only body capable of deciding whether a restriction of a right is a reasonable limit in our free and democratic society) – who, as the Liberal party recently pointed out, have already taken a look at these issues.

            I’d also note that what you’ve called ‘apathy’ could just as easily be characterized as an active preference for the status quo of not restricting a woman’s right to choose.

  • Jarrid

    Well hopefully 2009 will be a better year than 2008 as regards the abortion question in this country.

    Last year saw the Governor General hand out a medal to Canada’s most infamous abortionist precisely for his efforts at spreading this grisly business.

    Here at the start of 2009 people are talking about abortion which is a victory to those who want to bring awareness to the issue.

    Like all those who carry out evil acts, abortionists want to carry out their work out of the public eye. They do not want people to talk about it, hence their constant attacks on those who question the morality of their evil deeds.

    They want to shut down debate because they know that the more the public sees the grisly and immoral nature of the practice the higher the odds the public will demand restrictions on their dark deeds.

    Happy New Year to all Canadians including those yet to be born this year!

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