Categories: Capital Read, Inside the Queensway

UPDATED: Dear Liberal Party: Hey, that actually *was* an answer.

by kadyomalley on Monday, January 5, 2009 10:56pm - 68 Comments

The official reply from Canada’s New Office of the Leader of the Opposition, in response to a query on recent reports that an edict has gone out to all Liberal MPs instructing them to decline all invitations to speak at “Gaza solidarity rallies” or risk not having their nomination papers signed in future, courtesy of  the very same Jill Fairbrother who was chided by ITQ for being needlessly circumlocutious when asked about the so-called secret pro-life caucus just last week:

“Absolutely untrue.”

Which is about as clear a reply as one could hope to receive. Anyway, unless someone – someone with a name, that is – is willing to step forward and say otherwise, it seems that this rumour can be considered officially debunked.

UPDATE: Meanwhile, Conservative MP Brian Storseth seems to be going further than any other Canadian politician to date in suggesting that both sides need to make concessions to resolve the current crisis, and has called on Israel to end its blockade. (I’ve been told that he actually put out a statement to that effect, but can’t seem to track it down.)

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  • madeyoulook

    What was said: It is “absolutely untrue” that an edict went out.
    What was not said: It was just a gentle reminder.

    The above is not a truthful reporting of news, merely a demonstration that even emphatic statements might still not be as clear-cut as one likes. Kind of like Mulroney telling everyone that he did not collect “a single penny” from anyone related to Airbus.

    • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

      I agree with myl

      The Libs have been the home of anti-semites for years now and I would be amazed if Iggy isn’t trying to do something about it.

      • madeyoulook

        Careful, jwl. I admitted that I made it up. I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the spokescritter’s reply. I am only pointing out that apparently emphatic denials may still be accompanied by crossed fingers behind the back.

        • http://www.macleans.ca Kady O’Malley

          That’s true, but I think that in this case, it would be unwise to categorically deny something if there is physical evidence — ie a written warning, whether sent out en masse or to a particular MP — that could come back to haunt you, especially given the highly emotion-driven debate that surrounds the I/P issue. Plus, as someone else pointed out to me yesterday, these are *Liberals*: if a memo had gone out that explicitly threatened MPs with sanctions for taking part in rallies, it would’ve been leaked to a journalist – or several journalists, as Prime Minister Hacker might put it – within hours.

          • Don

            Physical evidence such as a memo? Perhaps not. Non-physical evidence such as a quiet word in an MPs ear from someone “close” to the leader – likely. Deniable? Yes. False? No.

        • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

          I understood what you were saying myl. Pols of all stripes are great at issuing non-denial denials or parsing questions.

          Would have to know exactly what Kady asked but if gist was ‘has an edict gone out to all Liberal MPs instructing them to decline all invitations to speak at Gaza solidarity rallies or risk not having their nomination papers signed in future’ there is all kinds of wiggle room there for spokeswoman to respond with ‘absolutely untrue’.

          Iggy knows that many Canadian Jews view Lib party with suspicion now, he experienced it first hand when he went to Holy Blossom Synagogue last year trying to make up for calling Israelis war criminals, and I would surprised if he’s not trying to do something about it.

          • http://www.macleans.ca Kady O’Malley

            Leaving aside the denial, and just so I’m clear, jwl, in this case, you feel that it would be appropriate for a political leader to impose sanctions on members of his party from speaking out on an issue about which they feel strongly? Is that the same as your position on whether the Liberals, or any other party, should instruct their MPs from speaking publicly about abortion? (I honestly can’t remember where you came down on that issue last week, when we were discussing the pro-life caucus.)

          • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

            No, I don’t think it is appropriate for leader to impose sanctions on members for speaking their mind. I wish more backbenchers had the backbone to say what they think, it would be refreshing if MPs didn’t behave like sheep all the time. There were a few articles in UK papers last week that looked at Labour backbenchers and how many times they voted against bills the Labour Government was proposing. During the ’07-08 session, at least one backbencher voted against their leaders one hundred times. I was wishing you weren’t on hols and could inform us how that compares to backbenchers in Canada.

            When I was googling around for some info earlier, I came across an article that was a few years old and discussed the measures the Libs were taking to stop blatant anti-semites from getting nominations. It focused mainly on ridings in Mississauga and London.

            All I am saying is that I would be surprised if Iggy isn’t trying to do something about the perception in Jewish circles that Libs aren’t on their side.

          • http://macleans.ca kc

            That’s not the Synagogue that hit the news recently is it? I’m confused these days, assertions here, scanals there, where will it all end?

      • Ti-Guy

        The Libs have been the home of anti-semites for years now

        On what evidence do you base this assertion?

        • http://macleans.ca kc

          No evidence needed these days. As you say, ” guilt by association” needs no supporting evidence. Just a mountain of self-righteousness.

        • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

          Where do I start? History, current affairs? My favourite example is the delegates who approached Bob Rae’s wife at leadership convention a few years ago and told her not to vote for Rae because his wife was Jewish(they didn’t know who they were talking to). But the examples are endless.

          • Scott M.

            That’s your compelling example?

            You mean to say you don’t think there are any people in the Conservative party who are anti-Semites? Really?

            I bet, in all parties, even NDP and BQ, you’ll find someone who thinks homosexuality should be illegal, someone who thinks people with a different skintone than they have are terrorists or otherwise beneath them, someone who thinks people who speak different languages than they do are less intelligent, etc.

            Neither the Liberal party, nor the Conservative party, nor any other party can lay claim to having no idiots among them.

          • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

            “Neither the Liberal party, nor the Conservative party, nor any other party can lay claim to having no idiots among them.”

            Scott M

            I agree with your statement 100% but we are talking about Libs on this thread.

            Rae incident was just one example but I think you will find that Libs have anti-semitic streak going back to at least Mackenzie King’s era.

          • http://macleans.ca kc

            Let’s see a good chunk of the CPoC are formally members of the Reform Party – no bigots hiding under those beds. “Those who live in glass houses…”

          • Ti-Guy

            In other words, you have scant evidence to back up your assertion.

            I’m not surprised. It’s what *you do*, after all.

          • TJ Cook

            So you’re smearing the Liberal party as *anti-semitic* and all you have is one third-hand, unsourced account of something *somebody* said to Bob Rae’s wife at some point in the past.

            That about sum it up?

            By the way, would you mind cashing this third-party, out-of-state, 13-month old cheque? Thanks, I knew you would.

      • http://macleans.ca kc

        I move that the mantle of smug ,obnoxious, condescending and ultimateky vacuous seif-regard that was, at times, be justifiably be worn by the Liberal Party be now officiably placed upon the worthy shoulders of the Conservative Party of canada.

      • http://blog.flickharrison.com flick

        OMG here we go – criticizing israel = anti-semitism.

        It’s too bad the opposition parties in the israeli knesset are such anti-semites, always criticizing the government all the time. Something should be done about that.

  • http://macleans.ca kc

    i would be interested, given Ignatieff’s previous verbals in this part of the world, to know what his position is?

  • http://www.canadianrosebud.blogspot.com dan in van

    Why not do a roll-call of every leader’s and their party’s official position? Is there any one of them that truly catches the complicated nuances of this situation? As in, countries that initiate bombings are bad; bombs that kill innocent people are bad; organizations/governments that make decimation/eradication of another nation and its people are truly bad; people who feel so pressured and oppressed that they would elect a truly bad government are bad, etc.

    • John D

      Doesn’t ‘The Middle East is bad’ capture most of the nuance?

      • Jack Mitchell

        Ha! “We unreservedly condemn the Middle East, which must accept responsibility for its unconscionable actions. We call on the Middle East to halt its descending spiral and to abide by the Geneva Conventions.”

        • http://prairiewrangler.wordpress.com/ Olaf

          A large part of Asia could really clean up its act as well. I like it: condemning entire continents and regions collectively, instead of each country or non-state entity individually. It’s a real time saver.

          • Scott M.

            Why is Europe so smug? And most everyone south of the Equator should pull up their bootstraps.

            Those North Americans are so artificial…

          • Jack Mitchell

            We could preemptively condemn Polynesia. I’m sure they’ll be up to something awful before too long, and it’s pointless taking sides in a dispute that hasn’t even happened yet.

          • http://prairiewrangler.wordpress.com/ Olaf

            Alternatively, we could issue an blanket edict that pre-emptively condemns all continents, regions, states, nations, and individuals, unless they’re otherwise notified that they’re not so condemned. Like if they raise a lot of money for a charity through a bottle drive, we could temporarily take them off the condemned list. The horrible stick of condemnation has failed, we must now turn the the carrot of temporary non-condemnation.

          • Jack Mitchell

            I smell appeasement.

  • Alan Lan

    Odd how no Liberal MP not even those known to be outspoken on the issue – has spoken at any of the Gaza rallies if this denial is truthful

    • Geiseric the Lame

      “not even those known to be outspoken on the issue ”

      curious. who would that be?

  • http://canadian-firebrand.blogspot.com/2009/01/liberal-mps-gagged-part-ii-hounds-of.html canadian firebrand
    • Geiseric the Lame

      “and there is no shortage of MPs in the Liberal caucus who have been outspoken supporters of the Palestinians in the past”

      names, please.

      • http://canadian-firebrand.blogspot.com/2009/01/liberal-mps-gagged-part-ii-hounds-of.html canadian firebrand

        Borys Wrzesnewskyj comes to mind, for one.

        • Geiseric the Lame

          Why? What’s he ever said about Palestine? What rallies has he ever attended?

          • Ti-Guy

            Wrzesnewskyj’s support has been for humanitarian reasons and out of concern for fundamental justice. That used to be an acceptable position for Canadians with respect to this never-ending Middle East quagmire. Now with the open smearing and guilt-by-association that, and I’ll say it, is largely the product of Conservative dirty tricks tactics, you can’t even adopt that position without bringing down a world of hurt upon yourself.

            It doesn’t work the other way, of course, because the media have been largely more “forgiving” of Conservative outrages.

          • canadian.firebrand

            Wrzesnewkyj was very outspoken during the Lebanon war and very critical of Israel, so much so that the Canada-Israel Committee called for his censure. Jim Karygiannis is another Liberal who has been outspoken in the past but silent of late.

          • Ti-Guy

            Wrzesnewkyj was very outspoken during the Lebanon war and very critical of Israel, so much so that the Canada-Israel Committee called for his censure.

            Do you have any specific detals about that?

            Jim Karygiannis is another Liberal who has been outspoken in the past but silent of late.

            Outspoken about Israel-Palestine? In any case, muzzling Karygiannis is a good thing, in my opinion. Not simply because he’s outspoken, but also because he’s intemperate, inarticulate and opportunistic. I do recall Ignatieff mentioning his name specifically in some recent appearance and that has been about the only thing Ignatieff has said recently that I support unconditionally.

        • Geiseric the Lame

          “Wrzesnewkyj was very outspoken during the Lebanon war and very critical of Israel, so much so that the Canada-Israel Committee called for his censure. Jim Karygiannis is another Liberal who has been outspoken in the past but silent of late.”

          Assuming that once you’re identified as a radical there’s only one opinion to be taken about anything strikes me as somewhat prejudicial.

          • catherine

            Wrzesneswkyj had to resign as foreign affairs critic over his suggestion that Israel negotiate with their enemies. He used to be outspoken on what he saw as a legitimate position on human rights issues, but what is the point of being outspoken if it just means you can’t play a public role? Particularly on an issue which is so unlikely to be resolved no matter what advice anyone cares to offer.

          • Geiseric the Lame

            “Wrzesneswkyj had to resign as foreign affairs critic over his suggestion that Israel negotiate with their enemies.”

            indeed he did. and now he’s expected to step in it again.

            can’t win for trying.

          • Ti-Guy

            “Wrzesneswkyj had to resign as foreign affairs critic over his suggestion that Israel negotiate with their enemies.”

            Oh, right. I had forgotten about that.

            I hate what this issue does for politics in Canada and Canada’s reputation with regard to foreign affairs.

  • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

    You know, I can’t see any utility in Canadian politics getting involved in the Israel/Palestine issue. Neither side gives a fig what we think, and political parties here all expend political capital on an issue we can’t do a damned thing about. Especially frustrating because we’re being forced to pick sides in a war with no ‘good guys’. A pox on all their house–let’s stay focused on Afghanistan.

    • Sisyphus

      Any comment from a Canadian politician would be for domestic political effect. And to encourage the cheerleaders at the Globe and NattyPo.

    • Mulletaur

      Nicely put, Andrew.

    • SAB

      Agree wholeheartedly! We should stay out of this.

      I worry that this is an attempt by the Conservatives to gain favour with Jewish voters vs. a truly principled stance. I hope I’m wrong.

  • Gawd

    and you can be grateful you received that answer.

  • Jeff Bailey

    I’d be interested in knowing what Prime Minister Stephen Harper has to say on the escalating violence in Gaza but I’ve yet to see a press release.

    • http://prairiewrangler.wordpress.com/ Olaf

      He speaks via proxy.

  • http://deleted Sandi

    From what I’ve read – all leaders of the three parties have said pretty much the same thing. Keep in mind, we have a multi-cultural country and our MP’s are supposed to represent all. Plus, this is so volatile – do you want riots on our streets?

    And, Obama will be president in about 14 days – perhaps they’re waiting for his foreign affairs policies.

  • Ti-Guy

    It never ceases to amaze me that some people are so willing to immortalise on the web the gossip that constitutes 99.9% of political discourse. Politics used to be fun when people all understood that gossip was gossip; it’s not something to be taken at face value (at least by sensible people) nor was it expected that every word of it would be referred to at some later date.

    At first, I thought this would lead to greater honesty/candour in political discourse. What’s really happened is that no one, not even credible people, is talking meaningfully at all and the only communication that’s allowed has to reflect some official, consensus opinion or is otherwise oblique and a sheer waste of time.

    On this specific issue, I suspect it’s true; that the Liberal Party has brought down the hammer on the MP’s, only for reasons of calculation. Every appearance by an MP (or even a rank-and-file Liberal with some profile) at some pro-Gaza rally can and will be used later against him or her, over and over again. We’ve seen this before.

    • Don Smith

      True, ask Denis Coderre. You think anyone lets him forget his attendance at the supposed “Hezbollah rally” in Montreal?

      This is an issue that a smart politician would stay as far away from as possible.

      • Geiseric the Lame

        I agree, but its not about smart politics. Its about parties walking into the stereotypes cut out for them. The Conservatives are openly and acceptably muzzled to a fault, so everyone else is supposed to go off half-cocked whenever they feel like it.

        Kind of like watching a Hollywood movie with less divorces.

      • John.K

        “Smart Politician” is probably Canada’s oxymoron of the year for 2008.

  • Grass Roots

    The conflict between Israel and Hamas will only be resolved when the international community agrees to place an Iron Curtain like security net between Gaza and Israel and a check-point Charley system in place of the naval blockade-iran smuggling weapons into Gaza and perhaps a suit case nuke is unacceptabe to Israel.

    In the meantime, those Canadians such as Sid Ryan who are siding with Hamas, are making a big mistake-we see the politics behind the scene and we know that the NDP is supported by the Islamic Congress of Canada. In a very real sense,(since the days of Svend Robinson traveling to Palestine and showing solidarity with Yasar Arafat ) the NDP simply cannot be a party for Jews. This is unfortunate, because all Canadian political parties should be represented by a healthy cross section of the population.

    • Sisyphus

      Hmmm ….. I wonder if that … uh … watchamacallit ….. Lewis family knows this ??

  • Wascally Wabbit

    I will praise the politician – backbench MP or party peader who will say and do – what we are all feeling – pick them both up by their scruffs – shake them – and tell them to grow up!
    Or the Jewish Mom who will call into the schoolyard – A shendeh un a charpeh (a shame and a disgrace) or maybe nifter-shifter, a leben macht er? (What difference does it make as long as he makes a living)

  • Grass Roots

    Support for earlier post:

    India-born Dr. Salim Mansur of the University of Western Ontario opened by calling on Canadians to end the political correctness and self-censorship that has muffled efforts to debate the stealth jihad – the gradual radical-Islamicizing of Canadian society. Like other speakers, he distinguished between moderate Muslims and Islamists, and warned of accelerating fundamentalist efforts “to establish a parallel society within Quebec and within Canada, as they are doing in Europe, that will be administered on the basis of Sharia.”…

    …Professor Mansur warned stirringly of increasing radical penetration of Canada’s political and social infrastructure. In the midst of the election, he turned his guns on Canada’s social-democratic New Democratic Party (NDP). The Party and its leader, he said,

    “have gone to bed with Islamists, operatives of the Canadian Islamic Congress, and other organizations, such as the Council on American Islamic Relations Canada, the Muslim Student Associations in our universities, ISNA – the Islamic Society of North America … for reasons of sheer political opportunism at the expense of the security of our citizens, and defending the fundamental values of our democracy.”

    (For those unfamiliar with Canada’s radical scene, the hard-line Canadian Islamic Congress was revealed to have given a media-excellence award to the founder of a Canadian-Islamic newspaper said to have had as its editorial line the assertion that 9/11 was a success, that Iranian-style theocracy should spread worldwide, and that Canada is a “fully paid-up member of the Anglo-Saxon mafia, which is responsible for most of the recorded genocides in the world.” The Canadian Arab Federation (CAF), mentioned below, also recognized this individual with a special anniversary award.

    During the first Gulf War, the CAF portrayed Canadian Arabs as victims of unnecessarily-aggressive interviewing by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), a portrayal that the independent, nonpartisan CSIS watchdog Security Intelligence Review Committee, found baseless. More recently, the CAF became notorious for campaigning against the outlawing of Hezbollah in Canada. For its part, the Canadian Council on American Islamic Relations [CAIR-CAN] is the Canadian chapter of the Washington, DC-based, Saudi-funded Council on American Islamic Relations [CAIR], an unindicted co-conspirator in the US Holy Land Foundation terror-financing trial. Like its American parent, CAIR-CAN engaged in unsuccessful lawsuits against media and other commentators who raised questions about its background and links; and, like its parent, CAIR-CAN is a defendant in the New York 9/11 lawsuit, Estate of John P. O’Neill, Sr. et al. vs. Al Baraka Investment and Development Corporation.)

    • Sisyphus

      It should come as no shock that the good Dr. Mansur ran as a CA candidate. Fortunately, he lost.

  • Grass Roots

    The shoe seems to fit. NDP apologists such as Linda McQuaig are only too quick to chastise Israel whenever Israel uses it’s army to reduce the capability of Hezbolla or Hamas. And the collateral damage that Israel causes is perfect fodder for her canon. And then there’s Mr. Ryan, powerful union leader, candidate for the NDP and now an advocate of boycotting products made in Israel and removing Israeli professors from Canadian universities. And like Svend Robinson before him, Ryan intends to join anti-Israeli demonstrators this weekend. He and others like him are playing with fire-this is not a simple social quarel, especially when a mushroom cloud can be seen in the not so distant future.

    • joops

      Dude, that “mushroom cloud” ain’t coming from the civilians in Gaza.
      And you are misrepresenting the academic boycott – there is no question of “removing Israeli professors from Canadian universities.” The point is not to bring in Israeli professors for speaking engagements, unless they condemn the blockade & humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
      Boycotts worked against South Africa!

      • SAB

        The nuance is completely irrelevant.

        The man is calling for a ban on visiting Israeli academics (this goes beyond speaking engagements) unless they do more to denounce the government of Israel. This is utterly ridiculous.

  • Grass Roots

    And even more stuff re NDP and the Islamists

    Article by Raheel Raza

    If you are Canadian and Islamist, you probably voted for the New Democratic Party (NDP), which won 18.2% of the vote on October 14, 2008-more seats from the 2006 elections.

    However, the party could not budge itself from its permanent 4th place in Canada’s parliament. Endorsed by the Canadian Islamic Congress (CIC), the left-leaning NDP has shown an incredible lack of understanding of the Islamist agenda and how soft jihadis are using democratic institutions by manipulating our respect for multiculturalism.

    As a political ideology,in the long-term Islamism seeks to establish an Islamic state in the North America, but this is barely mentioned by the suave and polished young Islamists who appear in expensive suits and with a flourish of legalese and the right disarming accents. While a Taliban style overthrow is unlikely, in the short term, Islamists hope to fundamentally change western foreign policy in favor of the foreign governments that fund them and organizations they ideologically adhere to, such as the Muslim Brotherhood

    more at this URL http://alanpetersworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/moslems-rejected-in-canadian-2008.html

    • Sisyphus

      Ok, then. When my next pizza is delivered by the usual Syrian kid I’ll be very careful opening the box.

  • Grass Roots

    You’re missing the point. The point in this whole thing is we shouldn’t get involved other than offering our support for a solution which has teeth, not one which buys time for re-arming. The folks in Gaza have had quite enough of being the meat between two buns, if you understand the analogy.

    As for the pizza kid, he’s not the one to worrry about-it’s the guy in the three piece suit.who works on parliament hill.

    • Jack Mitchell

      You’re against Israel rearming? Dude, they’ve used a ton (well, a megaton) of ordinance in this offensive, they need to replenish to keep the balance of power. I just don’t see Harper calling for Israel to disarm. Let’s be realistic.

  • Grass Roots

    Here’s something to chew on:

    CUPE becomes wholly owned subsidiary of Hamas
    By Klaus Rohrich Tuesday, January 6, 2009

    In a stunning move that left business analysts speechless, the terrorist entity Hamas has purchased all outstanding shares of CUPE. Or so it would appear, given the position by the CUPE executive to encourage the membership’s approval to ban Israeli professors from Ontario universities. Janice Folk-Dawson, the chairwoman of the university workers committee, claims the impetus to ban Israeli academics comes from the organization’s grass roots and is strictly designed to “stop the massacre [in the Gaza Strip] that is going on daily.”

    Where were Janice Folk-Dawson and her grass roots before Israel retaliated against Hamas? Hamas has been firing rockets and mortars into Israel for the past three years in some cases as many as 60 to 70 per day, killing and maiming innocent Israeli civilians in the process. And CUPE remained mum throughout. One can only conclude that CUPE is in the tank for terrorists and their tactics.

    The implications of CUPE’s desire to censure Israel go deeper and become downright frightening, given that the ultimate goal of both Hamas and Hezbollah, as well as their Iranian sponsors is the eradication of Israel and the death of all the world’s Jews. 
While Folk-Dawson claims the motivation for attempting to block Israeli scholars from Ontario universities is the result of Israel’s bombing of the Islamic University in Gaza, the fact that missiles earmarked for attacks on Israel were stored on that campus seems to have escaped CUPE’s notice. Or else CUPE is in complete agreement with Hamas and other Islamofascist nutters and wants “Israel to be wiped off the face of the Map”, to borrow a phrase from a famous Islamic statesman.

    Given that Hamas and its bigger sibling, Hezbollah, are both listed as terrorist organizations by the government of Canada, it only makes sense that CUPE be allocated similar status, given that organization’s rather public support of terrorist entities. Declaring CUPE a terrorist organization would allow the government of Canada to seize the organization’s assets, lest they be utilized to fund terrorist activities.

    It’s a depressing state of affairs that Canada’s leftists have so lost their moral bearings that they publicly support an organization that has recently imposed Sharia law on its citizens and has reinstated the punishment of crucifixion for certain crimes. It’s even more depressing that a labour organization such as CUPE would countenance the idea of censuring victims of terrorism for defending themselves. What was once a labour organization has morphed into political organizations with the ugliest of motivations. When will Sid Ryan march in solidarity with Palestinians and shout, “Death to Israel! Death to the Jews!”? That scenario isn’t far out of the realm of possibilities, given the Left’s complete lack of moral clarity.

    Most members of CUPE are hard-working, honest individuals that want to do an honest day’s work and take care of their families. It’s a dismal shame that this organization has been taken over by a radical band of morally corrupt individuals who will ultimately bring dishonour to the entire membership.

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