Too far? Sorry, the Tories did not go far enough.

The two greatest forces of instability in our Parliament rely on the per-vote subsidy

by Andrew Coyne on Monday, January 12, 2009 7:41pm - 135 Comments

Too far? Sorry, the Tories did not go far enough.

Where were we? Ah yes. The immediate cause of last fall’s Hysteria on the Hill, if memory serves (how long ago it seems now), before everyone had been coached to say it was about the economy, was the Conservatives’ attempt to remove or at least reduce public funding for political parties.

This was, depending on your point of view, either an existential threat to the opposition parties that left them no option but to overthrow the government, or the pretext for a long-planned scheme to do the same. But all agreed that it was a massive blunder on the Tories’ part: a distraction in a time of economic crisis, a destabilizing influence in an already turbulent minority Parliament, even an assault on democracy itself.

With the passage of time and the cooling of heads, it may be possible to assess this issue more rationally. Whatever the Tories’ partisan motivations for introducing the measure, there was never anything wrong in principle with the idea that political parties should depend a little less on the taxpayer, and a little more on their own supporters—especially at a time of economic crisis, when others are having to make do with less, or indeed with nothing at all. The notion that the parties could continue to feed contentedly off the public treasury, while about them companies are failing and people are being thrown out of work, is one that could be sustained only inside the Ottawa bubble.

If anything, the Conservatives did not go far enough. While it is a fair criticism that they should have given the opposition parties more notice, to allow them time to adjust, it is also true that the $1.95 per vote subsidy they proposed to remove is only one of at least three means by which the political parties avail themselves of public funds. There is also the tax credit for political contributions, as high as 75 per cent—charities should dream of such treatment—as well as the reimbursement for election expenses: 50 per cent for parties, 60 per cent for candidates.

All told, in a typical election year the public will be hit up for roughly $80 million. If the principle is that people should contribute to political parties on their own dime, and that parties should have to appeal to willing donors rather than conscript the taxpayer, it would be more consistent to scrap the lot, rather than cherry-pick the per-vote subsidy.

But never mind—it’s a start. And, as the Prime Minister makes clear in this week’s Maclean’s interview (p. 20), the issue is not going to go away. The Tories will fight the next campaign on it, and they will be right to do so. Though it tends to be mentioned only in passing, it is not a trivial point that the Tories are the largest beneficiary of the subsidy they propose to dismantle. While it is true that the other parties are proportionately more dependent on the subsidy than the Conservatives are, that is a comment not on how much subsidy they receive but on how little private money they raise.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of that situation, one thing should by now be clear: eliminating the subsidy, far from destabilizing Canadian politics, would do much to restore it to something resembling working order. There are two great sources of instability in the present Parliament: the weakness of the Liberal party, and the strength of the Bloc. The first tempts other parties into adventurism, as we saw in the fall, each calculating that the Liberals could be made to swallow anything rather than face an election. The second makes majority governments all but impossible—and also coalition governments, since none can be formed without the Bloc and, given the public’s hostility to the idea, none will be formed with it. Both, Liberal weakness and Bloc strength, are intimately connected with public subsidy.

The Liberals have never, in the more than five years since the Chrétien reforms ushered in the modern era of campaign finance, made any attempt to cultivate a mass constituency of small donors, such as the Tories and (to a lesser extent) the NDP have done. Prior to the reforms they had depended on corporate Canada; since then they have depended on the state. But until they establish a donor base—until they are able to generate enough enthusiasm to persuade large numbers of people to part with small sums of money—they will have little prospect of developing a wider following among the public. And so long as they can count on the subsidy, they will have little incentive to do so.

But if subsidization has kept the Liberals weak, it has strengthened the Bloc. For whereas the Grits must finance a national campaign on the dole, the Bloc can concentrate all of its resources on a single province. Indeed, it hardly bothers to raise funds on its own. In 2007, the party had fewer than 4,500 individual donors—compared to the roughly 107,000 people who contributed to the federal Conservatives. From 2000 to 2008, it averaged nearly $6 in direct public funding (not counting tax credits) for every dollar in individual donations. (I am indebted to Mark Milke at the Frontier Institute for these figures.)

Strange but true: no party is more dependent on the generosity of the Canadian taxpayer than the party dedicated to the country’s destruction. No party benefits more from this assistance, to such destabilizing effect. It is desirable generally to wean the parties off of public funds, but in the case of the Bloc it is truly essential.

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  • http://www.21conditions.wordpress.com truemuse

    If the Conservatives are going to propose scrapping it I would like to see them cancel the tax break on donations. After all if the idea here that as an engaged voter I should develop a sense of social responsibility to muster up the cash I never have and I give some of it to my NDP candidate. Well then what impact does my sacrifice (and it really is food out of my child’s mouth), what impact does it have measurable to my sacrifice? I’m well aware, because I’m politically engaged, that Hal Jackman is gave 20K to Tony Clement. How much lobbying do I have to do, with my friends and associates, how much grassroots work, to make my NDP donation mean something? People will say, well if you can’t feed your child you don’t have a vote.

    • madeyoulook

      Nonsense. You have a VOTE no matter what, if you are a citizen. Whether you decide to contribute financially to any party is up to you and your $ situation. Shame that, of whatever discretionary spending you have, you are ready to sacrifice your kid’s food first. Cable? Cell? Hi-speed? Call-Waiting and Call-Display? Pet(s)? Idle time that could be spent generating an income? Hey, I’m just trying to help.

      Your support of a political party can be a vote, it can be volunteer work, it can be cash, it can be any combination. Don’t for a second think that a party would decline any of these.

      No argument whatsoever with scrapping the obscene tax credit, too.

      • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

        Are you suggesting that she can as easily afford to donate up to $1000 as anyone else? If not, why should others be able to more easily buy influence? It is undemocratic…

        • madeyoulook

          Nope. I’m just saying she shouldn’t choose to starve her kid as the only available option if she wants to toss five or fifty bucks at her party of choice.

          • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

            How do you suggest she muster $1000 so that her point of view isn’t less important than those of a childless professional with a high disposable income?

          • madeyoulook

            Sigh. Your support of a political party can be a vote, it can be volunteer work, it can be cash, it can be any combination. Don’t for a second think that a party would decline any of these.

            Clear enough? She doesn’t HAVE to cough up the whole grand to be a useful contributer to her party. And she shouldn’t choose to let her kid go hungry in order to contribute anything.

          • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

            “Clear enough? She doesn’t HAVE to cough up the whole grand to be a useful contributer to her party. And she shouldn’t choose to let her kid go hungry in order to contribute anything.”

            No, but she needs to cough up $1000 for her point of view to carry equal weight as someone who volunteers, etc. and additionally donates $1000. Only, she can’t afford to buy her democracy.

          • madeyoulook

            That’s odd , Andrew. Which political party provides more voting cards at the policy convention to the delegate who maxes out in donations? That doesn’t sound quite right — I agree the scenario you describe is preposterous and anti-democratic. Please expose this shameful party so we may condemn it together.

          • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

            Everyone knows that policy conventions are a joke. See the CPC convention this Fall. Harper immediately said that he didn’t give a fig what the grassroots had to say.

            Now, of course, Harper needs money to fuel the CPC war machine. Thus, regardless of what ‘members’ say, it is ‘donors’ that have his attention–he better keep them happy if he knows what is good for his future electoral prospects.

        • KRB

          Yeah, major influence. You wouldn’t believe the things the Conservatives would do for $400 (which would only cost you, in the end, $100).

      • http://www.21conditions.wordpress.com truemuse

        Like Food, internet and phone are necessities of life, in the basket of living expenses we pay ourselves to retain our independence (for instance, if the school can’t reach me by phone the social welfare bells go off– oh wait i’m homeschooling cause I can’t afford the uniform and user fees of the public education system). Our independence (that ability to support ourselves apart from charity, tax credit, social credit) is what defines the value of our citizenship (moreso than our right to exercise the franchise) in a conservative political ideology. Hordes showing up to vote to gain their independence is not the scenario painted here. Coyne is suggesting that voters should put their money where their mouth is to stabilize their democracy. So I said he’s right, Harper isn’t going far enough, and you agreed, scrap the tax credit on donations too. So what you truly take issue with is that I consider that my vote at the polls should mean as much as Hal Jackman’s does. Obviously there is no way to equalize the dollars that I can contribute next to the dollars of a rich person. Yet if the conservative model is to hold and be us, be Canada, it should play out in such a way that it is understood by all that to participate in this democracy I need to join that Church :: pass the plate and I’ll put in what I can. It must be understood that the government is conservative, the cultural expectations will move to the right, I need to step up if I want to continue living here. In that conservative model I am less because I’m poor. Finish. Don’t pretend that I am equal in citizenship because my tax dollars helped put in an NDP opposition. Oh wait I don’t pay taxes!

  • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

    Coyne, you never address the principle that private donations to parties suggest that people with money can buy more influence in our democracy. This is already the case, but the per-vote subsidy gives ‘real people’ a say in party finances, not mouth-frothing party stalwarts. And frankly, the only people who donate to parties are partisans and ideologues. Thus, the poor and disinterested have no say, and remain poor and disinterested.

    • madeyoulook

      Either Andrew, please enlighten me on the current annual limit an individual may contribute. Then, Andrew nPoC, please somehow employ whatever rhetorical gymnastics you may have at your disposal to convince us that this allows an opportunity for any one “mouth-frothing party stalwart” to win undue influence. Many thanks.

      • seaandthemountains

        it is 1K i believe.

        • seaandthemountains

          myl, your point is taken that with a cap set so low, that old/American days of buying influence are much more constrained.

          I do think that if we end up with a wholly non-publicly funded election financing system, we still should be concerned with inequality in donations. I am not sure if it is the case now, but it could be, that at some point that we face a situation where the support of particular is concentrated along class lines. in that scenario, it may well be that a party that enjoys the support of the upper-middle/upper class is disproportionately funded over the lower-middle/lower class….. classic bourgeoisie vs the prols scenario.

          • PH

            So what. We do not live in a communist society, one class, no contributions. If the Tories get more from the “upper class” then it’s up to the Liberals to convince the latter to support them. Much fairer than hijacking money from the public pot.

        • Vince L

          1200$ to be precise. But in fact it’s really $2400:
          1200$ to the candidate, and $1200 to the party.

          • Samuel J. Grauer

            If you had wanted to be precise you would have said that the limit is $1,100, however under electoral circumstances, on varying levels of government, all in all you can legally donate up to $5,500:

            - $1,100 To the registered party.
            - $1,100 To a local party nominee for MP.
            - $1,100 to a candidate running in the federal election.
            - $1,100 To a federal candidate for party leadership.
            - $1,100 To the leadership contest itself (help pay for convention bookings etc.)

            However if you are able to make all of these donations in any given year, you are entitled to a 33.5% tax credit worth $1,842.50. At the end of the day you are only paying $3,657.50 (The absolute maximum).

            The tax rebate chart looks as follows (“<=" represents "less than or equal to"):

            Donation <= $400; Tax Rebate = 75% of Donation
            400 < Donation <= $750; Tax Rebate = 50%
            $750 < Donation; Tax Rebate = 33.5%

            The entire idea of rebates on political donations however is questionable. Essentially some of your tax dollars are being handed back to somebody who potentially donated to a party you did not vote for. This brings to light Harper’s move to cut unnecessary taxpayer dollars being distributed to political entities, which I would propose is a good thing.

      • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

        As seaandthemountains said, the limit is now roughly $1000. Now, it isn’t one mouth-frothing party stalwart that has undue influence, it is the horde (yet small minority of the general populace) of these types of people that have undue influence. If party financing were tied very closely to electoral success, it might mean that parties who respond well to the desires of the people are better funded, and better able to influence policy. As it is, better funded (supported by a several thousand of the aforementioned mouth-frothers) parties can buy elections within a few percentage points.

        I guess I could accept private-only financing if party budgets were capped at $5 million – $10 million per year (and anything beyond that confiscated), and television and radio ads banned.

        • madeyoulook

          Really? Did the Tories buy a majority the last time, despite being so spectacularly funded? Nope.

          Imagine. A bunch of like-minded individuals, members of a political party, so enamored with the general orientation of said party that they are willing to contribute to this party’s financial success (or instead volunteer their time for it), actually having an influence on the policy directions of this party. It sounds so… democratic, actually.

          • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

            People with money buying policies they like–how democratic?

            You don’t get it!!! The problem with your picture is that money is the price of admission to have any influence in party policy. That isn’t democracy, it’s plutocracy.

            And yes, the CPC did swing a few percentage points their way through superior funding (more ads, better organization, etc.).

          • madeyoulook

            I will try once more. The mouth-frothing stalwarts don’t buy GOVERNMENT policy. The party faithful (what’s a membership cost, twenty bucks a year maybe?) develop a PARTY’s policy. See the difference there? If yes, read on, if no, give up.

            The party policy (and its candidates and leader) must then resonate with enough voters for that party to get elected, preferably to a majority for those policies to stand a chance.

            If truemuse wants to whimper about her irresponsible parental choices, please explain why that justifies parasitic political parties at the taxpayer-funded trough. On second thought, never mind, please don’t.

          • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

            You mean policies like scrapping vote subsidies, curtailing right to strike, running large deficits, taxing income trusts, etc. (all policies Harper obtained a strong mandate from the people to implement /sarcasm)?

            Donors buy policies that never make it into the platform. They buy the 90% of policies that are announced on Friday afternoon press releases, if at all. Stephen Harper doesn’t give a fig what ‘members’ have to say, he said so himself (they are just one group he has to consult–translation: piss off).

            I guess my point could be easily illustrated by pointing out the fact that $1000/yr is abitrary. Why not set it to $50 million, so that a political party could be solely funded by a handful of individuals. After all, you’ve clearly demonstrated that the people with power in setting party policy are the ones who buy $10 memberships.

          • Samuel J. Grauer

            Dear Andrew (not Potter or Coyne,

            As it turns out $1,100 dollars is arbitrary… wow good catch. In fact we used to allow corporations and unions to donate large amounts of money to parties (the Liberals were at one point very dependent on corporate donors), but as it turns out that is even worse. So now we have small donations, say… $1,100. Sure that may be a little high for a teenage budget, but it’s low enough to ensure that parties that get the most donations represent the most people. Currently the Conservatives get the most votes out of any party, they get the most money in the smallest amounts (on average) and they are in government because Canadians mandated democratically.

            P.S. I believe you meant arbitrary not: “$1000/yr is abitrary”

    • PH

      People with money ARE real people. Don’t insult them. Without the taxes they pay, you would be worse off. And if they have more influence, stop blaming them and spend more time trying to get where they are.

      “the only people who donate are partisans” is not correct. There are some who are”poor” yet donate time etc. And if someone is disinterested he has no one to blame but himself.

      None of this kind of antiquated thinking justifies public subsidies.

  • seaandthemountains

    “Whatever the rights and wrongs of that situation, one thing should by now be clear: eliminating the subsidy, far from destabilizing Canadian politics, would do much to restore it to something resembling working order.”

    Provided that it is introduced and implemented in a responsible manner, the intervention is a fine one. I am not sure it is as transformational as you hope but, ok.

    As far as cherry-picking, why not demand of them to put all three on the board, esp the latter two which they are disproportionately more reliant on at this point? Throughout the article you give them the benefit of the doubt over the other parties (who you assume to only be concerned with the fiscal update for the purpose of saving their own hide). If they were serious wouldn’t they want to do the job properly?

    • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

      Coyne is not impartial in this matter–I thought that was clear enough. He supports this measure partially because it serves his ideology, but in larger part because it supports his politics.

      • Mulletaur

        Thank you, you are exactly right. Despite Coyne’s apparent biases, he is right to raise the issue, which I believe should be debated fully in Parliament. However, that debate should be separate from consideration of the budget bill and any other matter. Harper needed to include it with his financial update in order to mask the fact that their budget was deflationary, exactly the opposite of what virtually every economist except the most extreme hold outs of the Austrian School advocated.

        Coyne is also right to point out that the federal Liberal Party has done nothing to cultivate individual donors. Perhaps that will change now that Rocco Rossi is the National Director. He was very successful at the Heart and Stroke Foundation – although they are very different animals from a fundraising point of view, his skills should serve him well. Expectations are high, I hope he doesn’t disappoint.

  • Jack Mitchell

    It’s a fantasy to think the Bloc will wither away without the per-vote subsidy.

    • seaandthemountains

      agreed.

    • Jarrid

      I think Andrew’s trying to say that there’s a principle here somewhere.

      Why in the hell I am giving my money to Gilles Duceppe so he can trash Canada. And quite frankly, I think the Bloc would have problems raising funds because a lot of sovereigntists don’t see the logic of having the Bloc in Ottawa, although the Libs seem to be giving them new ways to become relevant.

      • Jack Mitchell

        Bloc voters, you’ll be amazed to learn, pay federal taxes too.

        • Mulletaur

          Good point, but if the subsidy is taken away for all parties, not even Quebec taxpayers’ money will be going towards it.

        • PH

          That does not in any way justify any support for them from the public funds.

      • seaandthemountains

        For the good of the health of our democracy. Though one could just as easily ask why you will be continue to pay to support them…. read the whole article Jarrid.

    • sbt

      Just like it’s a fantasy that any of the other parties will wither away without it. Good. We can get rid of it then.

      • Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

        I don’t think that’s the counterargument. It’s more a matter of the Conservatives playing fast and loose with our electoral system, stacking the deck in their favour and trying to hide it in a money bill where these kinds of changes should be resolved on a standalone basis with a broad consensus.

        • http://macleans.ca kc

          I couln’t have put it better. Where’s the debate. [ok now] If they’re going to run on it fine, but it would have been also fine to have run on it last election. This is completely bogus. What puzzles me is why AC is parroting the tory line without qualifier.

  • http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com Scott Tribe

    The counterpoint to all this:

    “Dr. (Robert) MacDermid points to the 2006 Canadian Elections Study, funded in part by Elections Canada, which asked respondents whether political parties should get public funding. More than half of those surveyed had no opinion.

    But, of those who did, 71 per cent said the public financing was a “good thing.”

    “This is the history of public finance for parties. Time and time again, in polls going back to the early ’90s when the Royal Commission on Electoral Reform and Party Financing looked at this issue, Canadians have always said that they support public financing,” Dr. MacDermid said. “I can speculate that they think it’s a way of ensuring fairness – so that the richest party doesn’t always dominate the circus, which is a pretty persuasive argument.”

    • seaandthemountains

      here here.

    • madeyoulook

      Actually, this is kind of the history of public financing of ANYTHING. Taken in isolation, any one “good idea” (health care, homeless shelters, a high-speed train, a federal five dollar voucher good on your next trip to the cinema, the gravy train for political parties, a tax credit for people who buy bus passes) will likely earn significant public support for public financing. Why do we suppose that is?

      Because the majority of voters do NOT come close to contributing a majority of the public finances.

      We don’t run the country like shareholders run a company. Votes are not weighted according to the financial value contributed. Not that we should. This is just to explain why the majority sees no problem helping itself to other people’s stuff for the alleged common good.

      • Dave

        madeyoulook writes: “This is just to explain why the majority sees no problem helping itself to other people’s stuff for the alleged common good.”

        For the wealthy to be able to enjoy their wealth, they need (a) infrastructure and (b) social peace. Infrastructure is paid for by all of us. You’re making it sound like the rich are building sewer and water pipes, and the rest of us are sneaking in at the dead of night and illegally tapping into them.

        And, in countries in which social inequity is too great (such as some Third World countries) the rich are virtual prisoners in their own mansions. They dare not go anywhere for fear of kidnapping. A little bit of redistributive taxation is well worth the benefit of freedom from fear in return.

        • madeyoulook

          Funny how much junk suddenly gets classified as “infrastructure” in order for the majority to help itself to other people’s stuff, eh? And how any attempt to show a little respect to the taxpayer ends up with a counterargument threatening our roads and sewers.

          In no way am I making it sound like the poor are illegally tapping into drinking water and sewers. Go back up and read. I am explaining why any allegedly neat idea will win support for public financing, especially when it is the sole focus of the survey.

          Free puppy for every disadvantaged child under five years of age, with vet fees and dog food and “incidentals” covered? Sounds nice, the poor tyke could use at least one moment of happiness each day with a lovable furry creature, and it might help develop a useful sense of responsibility and caregiving structure that will help his or her future academic and employment success. It will also prevent us from killing so many pets in animal shelters. Win-win-win! But wait a minute, how much will that cost? A hundred million dollars per year from the government? (Quick math $100,000,000 divided by 30,000,000 equals $3.33 a head) Why, that’s only three bucks per Canadian (well no, it was eleven percent more than what you just rounded down to, kids don’t pay tax, lower income folks don’t pay tax, it’s more like 20 to 30 bucks per some Canadians, and more like zero bucks to 25 cents for many Canadians engaged in this survey…). Heck, I would pay three bucks a year for such a fabulous program (well, no, it was eleven percent– oh, never mind, you didn’t pay any attention to my last attempt), therefore I am sure everybody would want to — absolutely, put me down as in favour on your survey.

          And so on, and so on…

          • Dave

            Meh. You’re assuming that the average voter is greedy and dumb. Unfortunately, benevolent philosopher kings are in short supply, so democracy is the best system we have.

          • madeyoulook

            Greedy and dumb? Not really. Actually, it’s pretty savvy. Look at all the “neat things” (to borrow a phrase from the recent TGV chat chez Wells) our country gets, and it’s coming from taxes. Since (a very large number of) I(‘s) don’t find my tax burden that onerous, surely we can afford this little extra.

            And not once have I attacked democracy. I am just trying to explain why it is so easy for any new great wonderful-sounding idea to suddenly seem like a no-brainer essential, because it comes at a pretty weak price tag to the majority of people influencing the decision.

            Which brings me back to taxpayer funded political parties…

      • http://macleans.ca kc

        Isn’t this the social contract ? that the higher you climb the laddr of social and financial success the more you can expect, and is expected of you, to contribute. In any case if you are arguing for wider recognition of individual responsibility i concur.
        Concerning votes and their financal weight isn’t this a danger with fund raising, that people begin to associate their vote with money?

  • http://macleans.ca kc

    Why do we always have to reinvent the wheel? Does any of you bright ladies/gents have any relevant info on other juristictions [anywhere will do] that only fund parties privately? In the spirit of Canadian compromise why not reduce all subs and encourage private financing.
    Not to be a worry wort but i wonder, absent contrary evidence, if eliminating all subs sets up a scenario where there is an incentive to destroy yr opposition. At the least i would have some concerns that down the road we would see the case for lifting contribution limits raised again. I also like the transparency of the present system. What guarantee of accccountability accompanis private financing?

    • http://scottdiatribe.canflag.com Scott Tribe

      Hmm:

      “In most countries in continental Europe, political parties are at least partially funded from the national budget in the form of various types of allowances, including those for regular party operation, functioning of parliamentary groups of party representatives, and for campaign expenses in an election year”

      I’ve yet to find a country where election financing is completely dependent on private means.

      • http://macleans.ca kc

        Thanks Scott t.
        That”s about it for this puppy. whatever the merits of ending the sudsidy it’ll have to wait for a Pm Who can be trusted.

      • Vince L

        According to the same group, that would put us in league with those dastardly Icelanders, Norwegians, Americans, and Indians (you know, the two largest democracies in the world.) Nice bit of selective journalism. You don’t fact-check do you?

        http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/UNTC/UNPAN014975.pdf

        • Vince L

          Sorry, it should read “according to the same *report*”

        • webby

          India is a market not a democracy – anything/anyone can be bought for the right price.

        • http://macleans.ca kc

          Vince L
          Americans? They Cover all kinds of politicals costs/expenses from the public purse. You don’t fact check, do you?

  • Dave

    If party funding is eliminated, parties that are backed by the wealthy (or the fanatical) have an advantage over those that aren’t. I’d bet that the average Conservative supporter has a higher annual income than the average NDP supporter. Are poor people now going to have to save up to buy their democracy?

    And undecided voters who find two or more parties appealing would have to decide on a party to financially support well before the election, or find that their parties of choice won’t be able to afford to get their message out.

    If we’re going to go this route, why not eliminate elections entirely and give power to the highest bidder?

    • SAB

      This is inaccurate for two reasons.

      One: It assumes the people always support the party based on their own economic interest. They don’t. If they did Ohio would always vote Democrat and New York would always vote Republican. Or Toronto would vote conservative.

      Two: With limits set at $1,000, you don’t have to be wealthy to contribute…and wealth doesn’t really get you very far in terms of making political contributions.

    • http://andythesaint.wordpress.com/ andythesaint

      I absolutely love how people are now acting like the $1.95 subsidy is a bedrock of Canadian democracy, and the elimination of it will lead to eternal Conservative governments. The law is FIVE YEARS OLD people. Before that, it did not exist, yet democracy in Canada still did. Moreover the past five years have been much better for Conservatives than they have been for other parties, and the best years the Cons have had in a decade, so you could argue that the subsidy has been pretty good to them (well, that and the fact that the Liberal party can no longer be financed solely by big corporations now that there’s a $1000 cap on donations).

      • T. Thwim

        And before that the law didn’t exist that corporations and unions couldn’t exist either. So are you seriously suggesting we should go back there?

        • http://andythesaint.wordpress.com/ andythesaint

          I don’t understand your question.

          • T. Thwim

            Sorry, my bad. Brain frizzle.

            The post should have read, “Before that the law didn’t exist that corporations and unions couldn’t donate either.”

            The change to voter supported financing came hand in hand with laws limiting corporate and union donations. So if you want to repeal one with the argument that “Things were just fine before” then you must be in favor of repealing the other as well.

        • http://andythesaint.wordpress.com/ andythesaint

          Alright, I can respond to that now. I wasn’t arguing that things were fine before, I think the system needed fixing, and at the time, the subsidy seemed like part of the solution as way to help supplement fundraising that could be hurt now that parties could no longer depend on large donations made by a select group of donors. In the five years since, the Cons have proven that it is possible to fundraise very successfully within the $1000 per person maximum, and thus I think we can eliminate the subsidy and not adversely affect democracy. My original point was mostly that people need to calm down and not decry the end of democracy if a five-year-old policy is overturned.

          I tend to agree with Coyne here, in that the subsidy has made it easy for at least two parties (the Libs and the BQ) to forego direct appeals to the electorate as they can get enough of their operating budget from the government itself. The Liberals should be more than capable of fundraising in the same fashion that the Cons are, and I think they’d be a better, more responsive party if they did (plus, it doesn’t sound like wise fiscal policy to depend on a large portion of your budget to come from $1.95 a vote in country where fewer and fewer people vote). The BQ should be forced to prove that it can sustain itself without 80% of its budget coming from Canada. For the past few elections, people kept predicting that the BQ would start to dwindle, and every election they hang around around the same levels. Could it be because we’ve been propping them up for the past five years?

          I’d even be in favour of altering the limit law to allow unions and corporations to be able to donote to parties (up to $1000) if there was a feasible way of policing it to prevent abuse. I’m guessing that allowing unions to donote a grand might help offset some of the NDP’s losses with an eliminated federal subsidy.

          • T. Thwim

            Except they can’t get their funds without appealing to the public. Remember that the funding is tied directly to the vote they receive. It’s not just handed out willy-nilly. In order to receive the funding, they must appeal to the people enough to earn a person’s vote. Since *everybody* has a vote, regardless of their financial circumstance, this is actually the most democratic way to go about it — far more democratic than eliminating public subsidies would be, as that would eliminate tend to eliminate the parties with policies that supported the poorest people.

            MYL’s point is that gobs of money won’t win you an election does not, after all, negate the point that not having money will certainly lose one.

          • http://andythesaint.wordpress.com/ andythesaint

            We’ll have to agree to disagree then. I get your point about parties having to appeal to voters in order to get money from their vote, but I still think that the Liberal party would be better served having to appeal to more people directly for support than simply voters, if for no other reason than it might force them to start campaigning more outside of Ontario/Quebec. True, they may not get enough votes for seats in a place like Alberta, but if they paid more attention to the area, they might be able to get some money out Alberta. Of course, whether the subsidy exists or not, the Liberal party needs to do a better job in reaching out to supporters through fundraising in order to close the gap between them and the Cons.

            Actually, another reason I’m for getting rid of the subsidies is simply because I think we all might be a little better off if our parties had fewer dollars to spend on the kinds of campaigns we’ve seen in the past few years. It’s not like any of that money has been well spent, if you judge based on our voter turnout numbers.

          • webby

            Actually I like the idea of having all of it be results based public financed. If you want to take a stupid position that no right htinking person would vote for, then you get no dollars to pay for it. If you persuade someone to vote for you then you get paid for participating in the process.

  • http://withoutanetcanada.blogspot.com/ Without A Net (Jean Proulx)

    I might be open with eliminating public subsidies to political parties (ALL public subsidies and not just the one that are most advantageous to the Conservatives to scrap) IF political parties were barred from advertising (or at least from using negative ads).

    Instead there should be mandatory leadership debates on Canadian television – many debates, with clear legislated rules governing them – so that voters can compare the leaders and the respective platforms of the different parties.

  • Ti-Guy

    *mwah* Superbe! Another winner. Each new post better than the last!

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  • http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

    Shorter Coyne: ZOMG! the taxpayers’ money is being spent and somebody needs to put an end to it.

    Haven’t you written this exact same column 800 times already? We get it, you don’t think taxpayers should fund anything.

    • madeyoulook

      Actual arguments resonate far better than strawmen, Bob…

      • http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

        We’ve had this argument 800 times already.

  • fordemocracy

    I don’t think people really get this whole thing. Especially those who glanced through the article and missed the part where Coyne said “There is also the tax credit for political contributions, as high as 75 per cent—charities should dream of such treatment—as well as the reimbursement for election expenses: 50 per cent for parties, 60 per cent for candidates.”

    Don’t go thinking that if by eliminating the vote subsidy it is going to eliminate democracy. For example, this past election the Conservatives went in with the most funds (by a large margin). Did this guarantee a majority? Nope, why? Because we have a democracy. You vote for who you want, and I vote for who I want.

    The problem I have with this set up is the Liberals think they are God’s gift to Canada. They think they deserve to be the government of Canada. They don’t think they should have to fundraise, they get taken care of by the government. And they sure do get taken care of. Look at the Adscam-payoff.

    If there are so many people against this, why don’t those people just take $50.00 and donate it to the party of choice. The $50 will cost you only $12.50! That is all the Conservatives are doing, they are getting 107,000 people to donate small sums. Look, you get 100,000 people to donate $50 that equals $5 million dollars!!!

    Tomorrow start putting a dollar aside each week. Than at the end of the year you will have $50. Donate that, make a difference.

    This is actually an opportunity for Canadians. Get more involved.

    • novagardener

      Fordemocracy. Maybe we should not allow all those 10%’ers. How many millions did the cons spend on those. Millions of Cdn homes rec’d multiples, from con MP’s that don’t represent their riding & most all were negative and many contained outright misinformation. And Andrew talks about subsidies!!. How much does MacLeans receive each year in subsidies. Would MacLeans survive if it didn’t receive a subsidy. Even the US, partially funds parties, as does most western countries. The cons may have their grassroots supporters, but I wonder how much under-the-table money is being provided to them by right wing religious groups in both Canada and the US whose only ambition is to see their policies imlemented here. I doubt many of these organizations care about a 75 or 50% refund on taxes. Its all about seeing their idealogical ideas come to fruition. As someone above stated, the cons have bigger pockets, and most of them live in Harper’s oil rich province. Harper’s supporters are those who believe in tax cuts for the wealthy and big corps. His mantra is screw those less fortunate in society – let the fittest survive. Was it Monte Solberg that said EI was just just another give-away, yet Canadians pay into this program big time. He just forgot to mention that.

    • T. Thwim

      Actually, the $50 only costs you $12.50 if you’re paying 37.50 in taxes. It’s a non-refundable refund. So for those people for whom giving out that $50 means they’re not paying the rent this month, they don’t get anything back come tax time because they’re not paying tax to begin with.

      So not only are the poor disenfranchised by not having the money to pay for it in the first place, they’re doubly disenfranchised because small political donations cost them *more* than they do people who aren’t poor.

      Yeah, that’s truly a fair system.

  • Gord Tulk

    Andrew:

    I too fully support the elimination of grants and tax incentives to party financing. I would like to see the limit raised to something closer to 5000 as campaign technologies aren’t getting anycheaper and the poor funding of partys also impacts the quality of research and policy development. Unlike the US where think tanks are a dime a dozen there is precious little research being done on Canadian foreignpolicy and military issues for example.

    As for the “massive blunder” that really depends on whether the opposition parties would have been spurred to form their separatist coalition if he hadnot put it forward. I suspect we will never know, but if it was ablunder it is nothing compared to the fatal deal with two devils that the liberals – iggy included – made with the socialist and the separatists.

    Finally I have seen no signs of iggy – now that he is leader – making an effort to modernize the liberal fundraising systems(if they can be called that presently).

  • Gord Tulk

    Sorry, almost forgot some other things.

    Iggy apparently has removed party funding from his rhetoric stating that the reason for the coalition was the weak financial statement and the limiting of public sector union strikes. Clearly he reads the same polls that show the removal of party grants is very popular with canadians.

    Please check out national newswatch for a chronical hearald interview with iggy ( I’m typing this on an iPhone and thus can’t provide the link. In it iggy renews his commitment to a coalition and has an interesting new policy position on post- secondary education funding that I amsure dalton mcginty will be surprised to hear about.

    Finally andrew I caught your new years session on CBC where you were asked a magic wand question and you replied proportional representation in the HOC. Come on man, EEE senate was the right answer. Wee you afraid you would not be invited back if you had said that?

  • T. Thwim

    You know, another thing that might promote stability in parliament? Just get rid of all of this messy business of democracy all together. Let’s go back to Queen E. deciding our laws for us, eh, Coyne? That’s certain to be much more efficient and stable.

    The messiness of democracy is a feature, not a bug.

  • REX

    I would prefer the taxes that the government steals from me go to the party I voted for than to Foreign Aid for some corrupt dictators and their elite buddies in all those destitute third world countries and to fund wars of folly like in Afghanistan or Iraq. There are destitute in Canada also. Hundreds of thousands who hold full time jobs at low wages have to still rely on food banks to survive. Harper brags as to how rich Canada is, yet the riches obviously are not in everyone’s pockets, just the few elite. The basic living expenses of low-wage earners is the same as high wage earners, but they do not have any money left over to support political parties—but still pay taxes. The parties that have the most money to spend on TV, radio and newspaper advertising, are the parties that have the most influence as to how the voter, votes. Harper has not learned what the Quebecers value and loses votes to the BLOC with all his insults. BIG money doesn’t always translate into votes. Respect does.

  • Geiseric the Lame

    Bury access to funds in rules and limits and then cut them hamstring them so the bourgoise prevails.

    Its a plan any good Fascist would love.

  • Geiseric the Lame

    and at 0.04% of the budget you BETTER make a moral crisis out of it or it’ll just make you look petty.

  • http://www.21conditions.wordpress.com truemuse

    Let’s say it happens, all the way, and the financial rug is pulled out from under all the Federal parties. How much would this really weaken the Bloc? They already spend the least of any Federal political party. They don’t have to shell out anything to a provincial party.

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  • http://farnwide.blogspot.com/ SteveV

    Leave it to Andrew Coyne to turn a purely crass political move, with the SOLE motivation being a desire to harm your opponents, into an argument of principle. Nobody gives a rats ass about public fundraising, the issue wasn’t even mentioned in the election and yet now, because of partisan nonsense, it’s something that serious people need to reaccess. It’s all just cover, rather than simply dealing with the elephant in the room. Every western democracy has some form of public financing, and if it helps prevent politicians from wasting valuable energy chasing dollars, net positive for the idea of good government.

    Anyways, Coyne’s new crusade isn’t surprising, after all, this is the guy who thinks Jim Flaherty is “under rated”. Yes, in the midst of a biblical financial meltdown, this guy is focused on public subsidies. Great job Jim! Good grief.

    • Ti-Guy

      and yet now, because of partisan nonsense, it’s something that serious people need to reaccess.

      Well, you don’t expect Andrew Coyne’s beautiful mind to be distracted with such prosaic issues as the real economy, sustainability, the necessary re-orientation of Canada’s manufacturing industry or the failure of sovereign democracy, do you?

      That’s like…rilly, rilly hard!

      The only thing Coyne is concerned with is keeping the political industry well-financed to provide employment for the courtier class.

      • http://macleans.ca kc

        Ti-guy – I don’t altogether share yr distain for AC, but on this issue how can anyone conclude he’s any thing but a fellow traveler for the conservatives. I don’t question his right to hold these views, but in this instance it’s clouding his objectivity. Yr entirely right, why are we talking about this issue now. AC says, presumably with a straight face, that this issue is relevant at a time of pinched financial times for everyone. Yeesh! Didn’t we just spend $ 300 mil to move Harper’s drinks cabinet 6 inches closer to Berlin [ sorry, black adder fan ].
        Well at least he’s now arguing that all subs should be on the table. He is moving. Who knows in a month or so he may well concede: not now, and not this PM.

        • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

          Presumably, AC is writing about this now because it’s an issue at the moment. We all almost had a change of Government over public financing for pol parties so the policy seems topical at the moment or would you rather AC wait for a year or two and then write about it. And wouldn’t proposals on reducing public expenditures be considered part of the debate about what to do during these ‘pinched financial times’?

          • http://macleans.ca kc

            JWL
            i know it’s an issue at the moment, but it’s that;s disingenuous Yet again you either don’t get or don’t want to get it. the issue was raised as a purely partisan issue full stop. It was not raised in the election, case in pt. Raise in the next election and let’s by all means have a public debate.

          • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

            I agree that how/when Flaherty presented his case it came across as a partisan issue but many cons consider the elimination of public funding for pol parties as a principal.

            And who cares when the debate about the topic is held. We are having it now instead of three months ago. Big deal. Or can we only have policy debates during elections and the rest of the time we have to keep quiet.

        • Ti-Guy

          I don’t altogether share yr distain for AC, but on this issue how can anyone conclude he’s any thing but a fellow traveler for the conservatives.

          I don’t disdain Mr. Coyne at all. He’s one of the better Conservatives. But when he came to the conclusion last year that it was time to re-open the abortion debate in Canada, I became convinced he doesn’t really understand public interest and that he sees his role more as someone who creates</i news rather than someone who simply reports it.

        • SAB

          You can vote Liberal and agree with Coyne on this issue. I happen to know that for a fact.

      • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

        So by advocating for the elimination of subsidies for political parties, AC is showing his true colours which are to keep the political industry well financed? Isn’t that a bit ‘through the looking glass’ thinking.

        • http://macleans.ca kc

          JWL
          Way to completely miss the pt. Given ti-guys main issue with Ac the irony is deafening.

          • http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

            I am sorry for dim-wittedness. What is yours and ti-guys main point, other than you two wish AC wrote about something else this week?

        • Ti-Guy

          Do you know anything about the political industry/political entrepreneurship? If you never heard about it before, you’ve been asleep for the last decade or so.

          I’d have less of a problem with it if I weren’t so horrified by what exactly is being financed. Propaganda campaigns, for the most part that assume Canadians are simple-minded.

          Remember Oily the Splot?

    • http://macleans.ca kc

      Steve V
      Wish i’d read yr post first. You nailed it buddy. This is complete crap! But it does give the political class someting to do at a time when there just isn’t anything else to really care about.
      Since i’m not homeless i don’t have any issues with gentleman Jim.

  • Wayne

    Andrew is deab bang perfect on point. This idea of subsidizing the parties in this fashion is not only ridiculous to the extreme but counter productive to democracy and despite the usual crowd of frustrated left wing nuts protests deserves and needs to be on the next campagn trail. The canadian voter has clearly expressed their view on this issue and I for one am looking forward to the debate in general. I would like to add another point as I think that no party can lay claim to being a national party if it has seats in only one province. I would like to see an amendment whereby funding is supplied to national parties only! …. Requiring a seat or at least a certain minimum amount of voters in more than one province to be signed on to a national registry say or some such. One other small point = no Seats NO debates see Lizzie – if we had these 2 rules we might have actually seen a debate this last time and not a political buckshot scattering everywhere achieving nothing.

    • http://macleans.ca kc

      Wayne- By all means let’s exclude frustrated left wing nuts, Ouebec, E. May from debating this issue. let’s see, that only leaves you and presumably your buddies. Shouldn’t be too hard for you to reach a consensus.

  • http://macleans.ca kc

    JWL
    I shouldn’t speak for ti-guy. But yes you got it. There are more important thins to talk about. Remember the old aphorism about rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic? Obviously this is an important issue with consevatives and should be discussed so i’m not trying to tell AC what to write. But lets not pretend that it is an issue because the public sspontaneously decided so. It’s got the finger prints of the PMo all over it.

  • http://deleted Sandi

    Hey, why stop there. Why should be subsidize magazines like this one and media – CTV, etc.? We have to subsidize Coyne’s job and he doesn’t seem to mind.

    What a ridiculous argument – why should we pay to vote? C’mon, we have to pay for the paper work, Elections Canada staff, etc. anyway – what’s another $1.75.

    Mr. Coyne, I think you do this on purpose. You want to take the opposite view on most things, just for the sake of it.

    • Ti-Guy

      I think he actually believes this stuff.

      Now that’s mean!

    • http://farnwide.blogspot.com/ SteveV

      “Mr. Coyne, I think you do this on purpose. You want to take the opposite view on most things, just for the sake of it.”

      That’s part of the reason how you end up saying Jim Flaherty is under-rated, on the heels of the most disasterous fiscal update in Canadian history. Part delusion, in thinking you’re just smarter than everyone else, part natural affinity for playing the contrarian- whatever, it all ends up looking SILLY in the end.

    • Gilmore

      He doesn’t need me to defend him, but Mr. Coyne has repeatedly said that if it were up to him, he would decline the subsidies that Maclean’s and the CBC receive. As illustrious as the positions of National Editor and member of the At Issue panel are, I don’t think he gets to make those decisions.

      • T. Thwim

        Well he could certainly deny his pay and tell them “Give it back to the gov’t/taxpayers, I don’t want your filthy lucre”.. but that doesn’t seem to be happening.

        I guess his ideology doesn’t extend *that* far.

        • sf

          No, you simply don’t understand his ideology. It’s not terribly complicated. He has nothing against earning money, which is what happens when people give you their money voluntarily, to buy the magazine or advertising within. It’s money that is simply handed over that is being opposed: subsidies.

  • Loyal Subject

    Bravissimo, Mr Coyne!!
    SHAME on the Bloc and the Liberals for their failure to raise their own funds! The number of sheep who continue to support this absurd, nanny-stateist nonsense is a continuing source of amazement.
    The clear distinction of the PUBLIC interests of the State and PRIVATE interests of Civil Society as represented in Parliament by political parties is absolutely essential to the continued health of democratic institutions. To confuse the two is to court totalitarianism.
    Let Canada avoid morphing into Cuba “north” or North Korea “east”.
    Abolish these subsidies NOW.

    • http://macleans.ca kc

      Baaaaaaaa Baaaaaaa !!

    • wml

      This is an example of how absurd some of the comments are……..conservatives also get the subsidy.

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