Categories: Capital Read, Inside the Queensway

Senate Smackdown

by kadyomalley on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 11:43am - 55 Comments

Okay, I apologize in advance for what is likely going to be a fairly lengthy and excerpt-filled post, but I really think it’s worth looking at exactly what went down yesterday when Senator Mac Harb – a Liberal – put forward a bill to amend the Fisheries Act to ban “commercial seal fishing”, or, as it is less euphemistically known, the seal hunt. At least, he attempted to do so — procedurally speaking, it didn’t go quite as smoothly as he likely would have hoped.

Let’s go to the tape, shall we? (By which, of course, we mean the Senate Hansard from yesterday):

Fisheries Act
Bill to Amend—First Reading

Hon. Mac Harb presented Bill S-229, An Act to Amend the Fisheries Act (commercial seal fishing).

(Bill read first time.)

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

An Hon. Senator: Never!

Senator Harb: I move that this bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is there a seconder for the motion of Honourable Senator Harb?

[Translation]

Honourable senators, the motion will not be received, since no senator wishes to second it.

Okay, everyone still with us? The bill was, in fact, introduced — here it is in all its first reading glory — but when Senator Harb tried to move the ordinarily pro forma motion to add it to the Senate Order Paper, the place erupted; not a single senator from any other party was willing to second it, which meant that the Speaker was obliged to reject it. That doesn’t mean the bill itself is off the table, it just means that for the moment, it’s in limbo until Harb can find a seconder.

Anyway, later that same afternoon, the International Fund for Animal Welfare held a celebratory press conference, at which Clayton Ruby – one of a half dozen or so lawyers in Canada who can genuinely lay claim to being a household name and a long time anti-hunt activist – heaped praise on Harb for his courage in bringing forward a bill that would, he predicted, hasten the “beginning of the inevitable end to Canada’s commercial seal hunt” lamented the historic reluctance on the part of all political parties to even consider debating the continued existence of the seal fishery. Reporters, however, pointed out that the bill hasn’t even been added to the Order Paper, which makes it unlikely that it will make it to the floor any time soon.

Meanwhile, back in the Senate, the Liberals – minus Mac Harb, that is – had apparently decided that the best defence was a good offence.

After Senate Question Period (which, ITQ reminds readers, does exist and is very often well worth reading online), Senator Terry Mercer demanded “an explanation and an apology” from Conservative Senator Fabian Manning for a press release issued under his name, and posted on the departmental website for Fisheries and Oceans Canada, claiming that the Harb bill was “endorsed by the Liberal Party of Canada” – a premise that Mercer rejected in no uncertain terms.

“Honourable senators,” he thundered, “It was rather obvious that senators on this side had nothing to do with and no interest in the bill proposed by Senator Harb. That was why Senator Harb could not find a seconder on this side or the other side.”

Well, debate, as they say, arose thereon.

Manning accused the Liberals of harbouring “fringe elements … working behind the scenes to destroy the seal hunt”. Not a single Liberal – or senator from any other party, or none at all – spoke up in defence of the bill. “More pro-seal-hunt than thou” was the order of the day. I’ve included that entire section of Hansard here, since it does seem to prove Ruby’s point.

Interestingly, the release no longer appears on the DFO website; a quick search of MarketWire confirms that it was, however, issued by the department, and not by Manning’s office.

(As yet, the Senate speaker hasn’t ruled on Mercer’s point of order, but I’ll keep you posted.)

Hon. Terry M. Mercer: Honourable senators, it has been brought to my attention that as of 12:36 p.m. today on the website of Fisheries and Oceans Canada there is a press release and a statement by the Honourable Senator Fabian Manning from Newfoundland and Labrador that criticizes the introduction by Senator Harb, in this place, of a bill on the seal hunt. It attributes the bill to and says that it is endorsed by the Liberal Party of Canada.

Honourable senators, it was rather obvious that senators on this side had nothing to do with and no interest in the bill proposed by Senator Harb. That was why Senator Harb could not find a seconder on this side or the other side. I think Senator Manning owes an explanation and an apology to all of us on this side of the chamber.

(1505)

Hon. Fabian Manning: Honourable senators, we on this side of the house, along with Canadians and especially Canadians in my home province of Newfoundland and Labrador were amazed on Friday when we received the letter from Senator Harb stating his intentions. The silence on the opposite side of the house, within the opposition party and from the leader, Michael Ignatieff was deafening. This issue is very important to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, especially those who derive a living from the seal industry.

We are concerned about the hidden agenda. We are very concerned about the fringe elements of the Liberal Party of Canada working behind the scenes to destroy the seal hunt and to give the animal activists ammunition for their cause. That is what we are concerned about and we will stand against this measure in the Senate, in the House of Commons, and stand up for the people who derive their living from the fishery and within the seal industry.

Hon. James S. Cowan (Leader of the Opposition): Will Senator Manning have the decency to withdraw the statement that appears on the Department of Fisheries and Oceans website? In that article Senator Manning says, “Sealers need to know that Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and the Liberal Party want to abandon the Canadian seal hunt.”

That is inaccurate and he knows it. He should have the decency to stand in this place and withdraw the statement.

Senator Manning: Not a chance. If I believe in something, I will say it. I will not withdraw after what happened on Friday with the letter from Senator Harb; what happened in the house today; the media attention it received over the weekend; and the ammunition given by Senator Harb and others on that side to the animal rights activists in their fight against the seal hunt. I will not withdraw, I will not take it back and I will stand up for the people making a living from the sealing industry in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Canada. Our party will do it proudly.

[Translation]

Hon. Céline Hervieux-Payette: Honourable senators, I would like to deal with this issue in a serious manner. A resolution was adopted yesterday by the European Parliament, by a vote of 27 to 7, banning seal products, except those for personal use by the Inuit.

My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate: What does the government plan on doing about this issue?

[English]

Hon. Yoine Goldstein: Honourable Senator Manning, one of the elements that we have to deal with here is speaking truth. I would like the honourable senator to tell us whether he still believes —

Some Hon. Senators: Oh, oh!

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Goldstein, you can finish your question.

Senator Goldstein: Tell us the truth about the seal hunt and your statement.

Senator Manning: The truth about the seal hunt is that we have a well-managed, sustainable, humane hunt in Canada that our government has supported and for which our government has fought long and hard over the past few years with the support of Ambassador Loyola Sullivan in his many trips to the European Union. He has visited 27 countries in the European Union fighting our cause and putting forward our concerns on behalf of the government. The truth is that we have a well-managed, sustainable and humane hunt.

(1510)

The truth is that a senator from the honourable senator’s side stood in this place today to introduce a bill in this house. It was similar to the measure introduced yesterday at the European Union. Does the honourable senator believe for a moment — does anyone in Canada believe for a moment — that the letter that was written on Friday by Senator Harb was on the table at the European Union on Friday and yesterday to help their cause when they stood to vote against the seal hunt in Canada?

He should be ashamed. People on the opposition side should check up on him instead of checking up on me.

Hon. Lorna Milne: To help Her Honour in her deliberations on this point of order, I want to clarify the situation by saying that, for the last six years, I have fought in favour of the sealers.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!

Senator Milne: I have done so at the Council of Europe. This initiative is not an initiative of this government; it is an initiative of all Canadian governments, and has been for years.

I point out that we do not have a bill before us because no one in this house seconded it. I congratulate all honourable senators who did not second it.

Hon. Joan Fraser: On the point of order, the Rules of the Senate ban personal, sharp and taxing remarks. I am sure, if the authorities are searched, various references will be found to an assumption that speakers in this chamber will attempt to speak the truth and will attempt to reflect the truth in their public utterances referring to this chamber.

This has been raised as a point of order. It might equally well have been raised as a question of privilege because what Senator Manning has done, and has compounded by his refusal to withdraw his public statement, is accuse many senators of something that is obviously not true. I cannot believe that falls within the range of acceptable conduct under our rules, conventions or traditions.

Hon. Jane Cordy: Senator Manning’s website states that the bill was introduced in the Senate today. That statement is an untruth. The bill was not able to be introduced because there was no seconder by any other senator in this place.

I ask Senator Manning to do the right thing: Remove this statement from his website and withdraw his remarks today stating such things that are untruths.

Senator Manning: What I said was that today in the Senate, Liberal Senator Mac Harb is introducing misguided, uninformed and grossly irresponsible legislation in an attempt effectively to end the commercial seal hunt in Canada. My purpose in putting the information out beforehand was to raise the concern with senators on this side and the other side to show that no one stood and seconded. The mission was accomplished.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: I thank honourable senators for their comments and for the information given. I will take the issue under advisement and endeavour to return with a decision as soon as possible.

Tags: clayton ruby, ifaw, seal hunt, seals make good clubs, senatorial brawling

More by kadyomalley

Critical Reasoning

Not Senator Harb’s finest hour.

http://macleans.ca kc

Nor Mannings!

John D

nor DFO’s

cam

seems like Gail Shea will have some ‘splaining to do as to why something so partisan got released by her department.
Partisan non-partisan

Manning is actually the villain here.

While the Conservatives are saying that the announcement of the Harb bill hurt Canadian lobbying efforts at the EU, IT WAS THE CONSERVATIVES, THROUGH DFO, THAT FIRST MADE THE BILL PUBLIC ON FRIDAY.

So if it’s true that the Harb Bill contributed to the EU committee’s decision to push forward with a seal products ban, it’s the CONSERVATIVES fault, because they’re the ones who leaked it before the Monday vote.

Critical Reasoning

Partisan non-partisan, thanks for your refreshingly non-partisan assessment.
http://macleans.ca kc

Dfo as a propaganda an arm of the CPoC – who knew!!!
Jenn

I agree. And if we needed proof that Conservative partisanship trumps the good of Canada, I’d say we have it right here.

cam

The Conservatives have made a lame attempt of trying to make this a partisan issue. With the Liberals so strong in Atlantic Canada and the heat that former Liberal Fisheries Ministers (and to be fair, Loyola Hearn of the Conservatives) took on the sealing issue, it was just plain dumb of Manning to attempt this strategy. I guess his voters knew best by kicking him out after such a short stint in the House of Commons, and perhaps Danny Williams too, for kicking him out of NF Caucus. Why Gail Shea allowed this to happen begs the question of her competence, or if indeed she is running her department, or PMO is— Hearn certainly would not have let this happen.
John D

To me the bigger issue here is that a government department – paid for by our tax dollars and supposedly acting impartially – put out (or promoted) a partisan press release attacking a Canadian Senator.

http://www.macleans.ca Kady O’Malley

That’s what makes it particularly puzzling that the Liberal senators seem to ignore the seemingly screaming impropriety of using taxpayer money to attack a parliamentarian, and are only interested in the claims that the release made about the Liberal Party.

cam

good point. I think there may be some rules within departments about the use of language, subject matter etc in GoC releases that were broken here.
Critical Reasoning

I suspect that the Liberal Party attempted to dissuade Senator Harb from putting forward the bill, and Harb rebuffed them. There are probably some sour grapes here, which is why the Liberal senators are more interested in the party than in the parliamentarian.

cam

I think actually if you check over the past few years it is Harb who is out of step with Liberal, Conservative and Government policy on the seal hunt. I think it’s fair to say that there are more parliamentarians that are on the same side of this issue, than not.

However, if you too are trying to make Senator Harb’s views Liberal Party’s policy for the sake of partisanship than don’t bother trying to convince anyone who actually follows resource issues.

Critical Reasoning

I think you misread my comment. I was in fact suggesting that Harb is out of step with the Liberal party on this issue… which is why the party tried to dissuade Harb, and why Harb rebuffed the party.
http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

Not to get all pedantic and all, but technically two groups of people who are not walking in step are both out of step with each other, even if one of them includes all the Liberals in Christendom.
http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

But you’re right, I think that with rebuffing there is only a rebuffer and a rebuffee.
http://macleans.ca kc

Well rebuffu !
Critical Reasoning

Well rebuffu!

Heh… we’ve switched from rebuffing to rebluffing.

http://macleans.ca kc

Anyone who’s had any dealings with the DFO knows that politics frequently affect it’s decisions!

Critical Reasoning

What is the economic impact of the EU resolution banning seal products? $300,000? Seems rather irrelevant in this day and age. Don’t worry – I’m sure those seal killers will be able to sell their baby seal pelts to interested buyers outside of Europe.

Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

Yes, that is my opinion as well. It seems like a case of the tail wagging the dog for this to be such an issue.

http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

There’s a no-brainer solution to this: just get 300 000 “Paro” robot baby seals (which are amazing) and let the hunters hunt those. They’re quite valuable, I think, though you might have to repair them afterwards; and the bleeding-heart Europeans wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

Critical Reasoning

It’s ironic that an artificial baby seal is worth 100 times more than a genuine baby seal. Technology has finally become cuter than biology.

http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

I hadn’t thought of it that way. Maybe we could compete with the Japanese with our own relatively cheap baby seals? They wouldn’t last as long as companions for the aged — they would turn into adolescent seals pretty quickly — but it might still improve the profit margin. For one thing, we’d be looking at high turnover.
Critical Reasoning

LOL – Interesting idea! I’m not sure authentic baby seals would be good for elderly Japanese – all that pooping and puking and squealing and stinky fish breath. The Japanese standard for cuteness seems a bit too antiseptic for that.

On a related note, it’s too bad baby whales aren’t as adorable as seal pups, or the Japanese would surely abandon their “scientific” whale slaughter.
http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

Hear hear re: whaling. But I fear your scheme is doomed: the Japanese, on average, just don’t have the household square footage to accomodate robot baby whales as companions; moreover, when they gurgle and flap adorably, the room shakes.

http://macleans.ca kc

Well now you know why the EU did ban it. Of course that $300,000 does have an impact in the Maritimes.
I’m not fond of the idea of clubbing baby seals myself. However i do have the luxury of holding that opinion. I wish more people minded their own business. It’s not as if a really vital principle were at stake here – i personally don’t beleive the seals have that much of an effect on the fish numbers, but then again it’s not as if all those sealers are latte sipping Torontonians who have all kinds of other options.

Critical Reasoning

I’m not fond of the idea of clubbing baby seals myself.

Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. ;-)

http://macleans.ca kc

Funnily enough there’s quite a bit of hunting and trapping still going on around here. i saw a couple of wolves that had been shot the other day – they were so beauiful – sad really, nothing would make me shoot them…but there you are. i’m not about to tell a Metis what he can or can’t do.

Alan

This reminds me of one of those horrible lovey couples who argue over who loves who the most. An Hon. Liberal Senator “The Liberal Party loves the seal hunt the most.” An Hon. Conservative Senator “I rise on a point of order. Clearly, the Hon. member has just lied, since the Conservative Party loves the seal hunt the most.”
Critical Reasoning

Clearly the bill is caught between the Rock and a Harb place!
Wayne

The good ol Lib’s in the Senate are proving a handful for Iggy and it’s getting a lot worse – the next thing will be coming up is the senator asking for a bloc NFLD. DOH! … what a maroon and a damned good reason that we need an elected senate so that we can turf some of these left winguts out of the place. Poor Iggy how is he going to deal with after not whipping the mp’s on the budget. Poor guy ….

cam

If Senators matter so much why didn’t Harper get Duffy to shut up?

The Conervatives want this to be about the EU or Baker or whatever. But my guess is at DFO right now someone is trying to explain to the Deputy Minister why the Department sent out partisan Conservative press releases courtesy of the taxpayer.

Shenping

If they abolish the Senate they’ll have to change the name of the hockey team . . .

http://macleans.ca kc

One lib senator for, and Wayne wants to trash the place.
Must be nice to live in yr partisan little world? Tell me what do you do in the morning, after that is dusting off yr Stevie boy shrine? Tune in to radio SHFL in AB!!

Wayne

Then I go in search of baby seals to club to death … not many here on vancouver island but they are around I just know it. AH! The taste of baby bluber first thing in the morning … sniff … sniff … smells like victory .. by the way I don’t have to dust the shrine now as more and more acolytes are signing up .. next stop world domination.

http://macleans.ca kc

Actually i haven’t seen any polls lately, nor do i set much store by them. But judging by all the *serious*Tory attacks on Iggy lately and of course yr forthcoming puffin poop adds, i would say that Stevie boy’s a little worried. Understandible really when yr opponent DOES know how to say:” I love Canada”!!!

Wayne

Keep on dreaming … hopefully it will make you feel better … however … reality is generally much more interesting and those 12 seats we need are looking closer and closer and every day goes by a little closer still. Iggy gets a bump on the last series of polls because he wasn’t Dion and the loyal LPC winguts get all unified feeling but that is always temporary and then slowly but surely as Iggy is glaring through his unibrow at Stevie the rug inches away from under and Iggy wants to look down, he needs to look down but he doesn’t dare becuase if he does – here comes the poke in the eye gotta happen sooner or later personally I can’t wait. I think Stevie is being so gentle on Iggy of late as he wants to actually let him become leader of his own party first and then the velvet glove comes off – no doubt!
http://macleans.ca kc

Wayne those 12 seats yr on about are in the REAR view mirror and receding rapidly. Adieu majority. Sad Wayne, they only come so infrequently for you guys. Ah well, there’s always the 22nd century.

Shenping

There’s all those geriatric hippies floating around in the waters around the island. They’re not as cute as the baby seals & don’t make for great coats, but they’re just as blubbery as seals & nobody will complain.

A little off topic, but separated at birth?

http://www.tribaltravel.com.au/Portals/0/category%20highlights/Kangaroo%20Island/baby%20seal.jpg

http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/canada/images/Stephen-Harper-Biography-02.jpg

Go Mac

You want to hunt seals? Do it on your own dime. Don’t expect the feds (our hard-earned tax dollars) to underwrite your escorts, security, rescue, and international marketing campaigns. Let free enterprise reign. No more handouts.

There are far more efficient ways of obtaining meat and fur (for those who want it–I don’t), more readily monitored and veterinarian-accessible than this 18th-century anachronism.

Stop leaching off the taxpayer to underwrite your bloody pasttime.

And abolish the unelected Senate!
Dan

Clayton Ruby is a symbol of the contempt Torontonians have for those outside the GTA, especially natives and those in remote parts of the country like Newfoundland. That’s the reason the foreign scam artists focus on rural Canadian activities. They know they can get the pompous snobs of Toronto on board in vilifying their fellow citizens.

Toronto is so insecure; it has no desire to be a leader for Canadians, it only wants to demonstrate to foreigners what a champion it is of all the popular fads.

Congratulations to the Senate for giving Harb’s bill the reception it deserves.

hosertohoosier

I’m a pretentious snob from Toronto and I both hate foreign popular fads and strongly support clubbing baby seals.

Dan

I’m not trying to tar all Torontonians with the same brush. I’m talking about the character of Toronto in general as I perceive it.

Shenping

Maybe we can start the rumour that lattes are made from baby seal blubber.

sf

Maybe tomorrow he can try to ban the chicken industry. Or the rabbit hunt.
MT

you know no one complained when prison camp guards lose their jobs, it is 2009 – no need for this sick and barbaric custom to continue.

Shenping

That’s what I’ve been saying all along, but people voted for Harper a second time.

Chris S.

Shame on this Conservative Senator for using the Canadian public service for partisan purposes.

http://www.antisealingcoalition.ca Bridget

Shame on the Canadian government for using the Canadian taxpayers’ money to to fund and defend a cruel and outdated slaughter.

Bruce

Iggy’s got lots of problems to keep him busy, but not before voting to support the budget yesterday 204 to 78 against.
http://www.antisealingcoalition.ca Bridget

I think it’s time the other senators follow Mr. Harb’s lead and GROW SOME. Mr. Harb is the only senator in Canada in step with the opinion of the majority of Canadians – that it’s time for this shameful and unnecessary slaughter to end and alternatives to be implemented.

It’s the 21st century people – why are you still living in the dark ages where the club is your answer to everything?
Luke Thomas

I lit black candles and put a death curse on the Seal hunters-I pray-and I truly prayed-that these pieces of human excrement called seal hunters all drown and die an agonizing death. I put a curse on last years’ seal hunt–but I was very disappointed only four seal hunters died due to a freak boating accident. I prayed with more passion this year… :-) I know it’s all coincidence, but my prayers DO tend to get answered. Anybody who knows me knows this to be quite true and errie… :-)

I also prayed to the Ancient ones that the whole of Canada be cursed for their CHOICES of hideous animal cruelty.

Cruelty begets cruelty – and there is Karma

The Ancient Egyptians believed the Soul was Conscience. What makes it worse is that people KNOW what they do, and animals too breathe, eat, drink, and, yes, have emotions, and they FEEL PAIN and FEAR like we do. That is sufficient cause for humane treatment. When a person has no conscience, when they die, their Soul is weighed against a feather. If the feather is heavier due to a lack of conscience, they are cast into hell. And yes this was ancient Egyptian belief. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it.

I’m not surprised the Canadian government supports seal hunting – but everyday life IS the Garden of Eden because everything we do, is with eyes WIDE OPEN (awareness). And there is hell to pay for cruelty.

Canada disgusts me. They make me puke. I hate Canada as much as I hate the cat killers in China.

madeyoulook

I pray-and I truly prayed-that these pieces of human excrement called seal hunters all drown and die an agonizing death.
…
Cruelty begets cruelty – and there is Karma

Thankfully, your prayers carry the same powers as everyone else’s, and teh same as putting pins in little dolls: nil.

Sadly, your own cruel intent towards your fellow human beings shall lead to no boomeranging karma in your own direction. Enjoy your pathetic little corner of evil thoughts, Luke.