Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Table manners

by Aaron Wherry on Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:18am - 9 Comments

Joanne Chianello reports on a speech this week in Ottawa by Mark Kingwell.

Ignatieff writes that “if our politics are good, we can keep our disagreements civil.” And indeed, the theme of civil dissent ran though Kingwell’s early-morning talk Thursday as well. ”Incivility,” he told the audience, “doesn’t just threaten the etiquette of interchange, it threatens democracy.”

But while Kingwell was taking comments following his speech, two Liberal parliamentarians began their own conversation at their table — clearly audible to all those around, the speaker, and certainly the woman asking the question. They seemed oblivious to the irony of their incivility.

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  • Wally Wentzell

    Figure it this way: Kingwell has been giving this speech for decades. His doctoral thesis was on the idea of civility in political discourse – “golly, let’s all talk our way to democracy!!” I think his master’s thesis was on the same subject. And Kingwell and Iggy do log-rolling book reviews. Kingwell writes nice reviews of Iggy’s books and visa versa. Very clubby.

    If people were talking over Kingwell, then that’s not so uncivil. They’ve probably heard the speech before and got bored. I ‘ve heard it, and it’s frigging boring.

    • Wandering

      Irony abounds.

  • Michael

    Incivility is necessary in the face of obstinance

  • Lord Kitchener’s Own

    LOL

    I love that thesis. So, basically, debate is what separates us from the animals, and that’s a BAD thing!

    That’s got to be the first time I’ve seen someone argue that the problem with democratic government (indeed, with humanity itself) if that we’ve largely moved away from an animalistic, “kill or be killed” state of existence, and that we spend way too much time talking about stuff, rather than battling it out Thunderdome style!

    Who knew Mad Max could be viewed as a UTOPIAN view of the future!

  • Wandering

    Manners and civility are two different things. And neither one has much to do with decency, which is something Kingwell hasn’t appeared to address. Arguing in bad faith is the indecency that’s plaguing discussion. Ignatieff remarked on the CBC last Sunday that even the Conservatives’ attacks are in bad faith, since they make accusations they themselves don’t believe.

  • Wandering

    Debate does not exist in nature. It is inherently statist, presupposing….

    What disgusting comment. The implication is of course that the inevitable fate of some people is to be killed.

  • bob

    Debate does not exist in nature. It is inherently statist, presupposing a state which jealously guards its monopoly on violence. Hunter gatherers don’t debate; they kill.

    This is the single most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. Read much anthropology?

    First, equating hunter-gatherers with “nature” is nonsense.

    Second, claiming that hunter-gatherers “don’t debate; they kill” is simply absurd. In fact, political authority in most hunter-gatherer societies is entirely derived from debate and the ability for a leader to convince people to follow him. Even the legitimacy of Chiefs in Chiefdom societies is tenuous and largely based on ability to redistribute goods. It is really only in State societies that legitimacy of political rulers is enforced by killing dissidants.

  • http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

    Perhaps incivility is bad, but clubbability is even worse. There is a season for anger and a season for merry laughter; it’s when MP’s (say) get angry about nothing that they degrade our democracy, but we also degrade democracy if we never get angry. Such is the Way. There is also an art to getting angry, sadly atrophied in our society.

    As to talking while other people are speaking, that’s mere animal incivility, the kind you get from spoiled pets. They were probably wiping their fingers on the tablecloth too.

  • anon

    Wow, Aaron really hits the Liberals hard here…….
    25 blog posts blasting Tories and this one post criticising “two Liberal parliamentarians…..” Wow Aaron. Not too rough on your home team now.
    Pathetic.

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