Q: When you talk about these new programs in speeches, you talk about at-risk youth and combatting radicalization. I’m concerned that, first, it sounds like you’re selling these changes as a remedy for extremism, and second that it encourages people to think of immigrant communities as being unable to integrate.
A: I don’t think you’ll find anything I’ve said that supports that. To the contrary, I am a serious bona fide defender of our very open approach to immigration. If we ignore challenges that exist, I think that’s only inviting the breakdown of the pro-immigration and pro-diversity consensus that exists in Canada. Now, what I’m talking about, youth at risk and radicalization of criminality, is what people on the social left will talk about as well. Now, they’ll argue that the causes are social exclusion, and I in large part agree with them. That’s why I’m saying for kids who may never have a professional experience, let’s get them mentorship programs, let’s help—as we are—through our crime prevention initiatives. I’m not suggesting that the kids of any particular immigrant community are “a social problem.”
Q: When you say that you always point to the same two or three communities.
A: No, I don’t.
Q: The Tamils, the Sikhs and the Muslims.
A: That’s not true. When I’m up in Edmonton meeting at the invitation of the Somalicommunity, and they tell me about 13 murders that have happened, 13 young Somali kids—Somali-Canadian kids—who’ve been killed in Edmonton in the past year or so, they’re asking for help. To say that the cycle doesn’t exist isn’t responsible. It’s a broad social problem for which we all bear responsibility to find the solution.
Q: How’s the relationship with the Muslim community?
A: With many Canadian Muslims it’s great. With the small minority who claim to speak for the Muslim community but I think represent just a fringe, not so good. I don’t talk about the Muslim community in Canada, I talk about the Muslim communities, and I have spent a lot of time in the past three years with the diversity of Canada’s Muslim communities all the way from the Muslim school in Halifax to the Persian community in West Vancouver. Do I get along with Mohammed Al-Nasri, who said that any Israeli over the age of 18 can legitimately be killed? No, I don’t deal with people like that. I think that is the approach that the government should take, that we will engage anyone of any faith or any ethnicity but not those who advocate extremism, support terrorism, rhetorically or otherwise. I maintain that that characterizes a tiny minority of the Muslim communities.
Q: Are you concerned the Muslim community, or part of it, is in danger of being marginalized?
A: Obviously Muslim Canadians have a particular challenge, given current realities, to explain their faith to non-Muslims, and for many young Muslims I think there are probably bigger barriers to social inclusion than for other Canadians. I spoke very bluntly about this to the Islamic Society of North America in Mississauga recently where I said, “Look, it’s reality that people in your communities, particularly young people and young men, may feel frustrated because of misunderstandings about Islam because of negative stereotypes, and that means there are perhaps often bigger hurdles for people to overcome in this community, but you have to believe that in Canada still anything is possible.” And I used as my example my former colleague Rahim Jaffer, who arrived in Canada as a refugee, as an infant. Rahim Jaffer, at 25 years of age, was the first Muslim elected to the Canadian Parliament, and by 32 was the caucus chair of a government in a G8 country. So my message is: there are challenges, just like there were challenges for my Irish-Catholic ancestors that arrived in Orange Toronto in the mid-19th century,but you’ve got to believe in the promise of this country and stay focused, and not allow the challenges and the stereotypes to be an excuse for becoming bitter towards Canadian society.
Q: There is—I think—an unhealthily low level of tolerance toward immigrant communities in Canada still, and it’s borne out again in polls and in public hearings. How do you address the reluctance of the larger community to do its part to help these people?
A: We definitely don’t have the kind of institutionalized xenophobia that exists in certain other Western democracies. The easy and obvious thing to do, from a political calculus point of view, would be to follow the rest of the Western world and slash immigration levels, and blame immigrants for taking away Canadian jobs. We’re doing the exact opposite thing. What old-stock Canadians, if you will, owe new Canadians isn’t special treatment, they owe them an honest shot.
Q: Why not take advantage of this opportunity when other nations are closing doors? We have a long-term need for high immigration.
A: We are doing exactly that. We are finally, again, competitive for the best and the brightest with countries like Australia and New Zealand. If you were a brilliant software engineer from Bangalore who just graduated from one of the top Indian technology institutes, you wouldn’t even think about coming to Canada and waiting six years to do so; you would go to Australia or New Zealand in six months. We are making changes to better align the immigration intake with our economic and labour market needs, and that will in time—significantly, I think—improve economic outcomes. Which, at the end of day—all this abstract talk about social inclusion and integration—when I meet with new Canadians, they don’t get into abstract debates about pluralism and managing diversity. They’re here because they want a good job in the profession for which they are trained and they want their kids to get ahead.
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