Follow the … money? Now there's an idea: Liveblogging the Oliphant forensic accountant's report

by kadyomalley on Wednesday, May 6, 2009 8:00am - 50 Comments

You might remember today’s witness — Navigant Consulting associate Steve Whitla — from such commissions of inquiry as, well, Gomery, which is pretty much the standard by which such adventures in forensic accounting are, and will continue to be measured. Of course, in that instance, there were a lot more breadcrumbs strewn on the path — but ITQ still holds out hope that Whitla’s report to the inquiry will at least give us some indication of whether there are dots to connect between the Bear Head “success fees” that have so gobsmacked the judge, stubbornly still-mysterious Swiss bank accounts and – of course – the cash-stuffed envelopes that the former prime minister has admitted to accepting from Karlheinz Schreiber. That, or at least dazzle us with graphics and flowcharts of Escherian beauty and complexity. We’re easy to please, really.

9:00:54 AM
Oh my goodness, Oliphaniacs: It’s PowerPoint Day at Old City Hall! Or at least it *will* be in approximately half an hour; on the wallscreen that last hosted the avuncular virtual image of Elmer MacKay is a slide that reads:

Oliphant Commission of Inquiry
May 6, 2009
Navigant Consulting

We don’t know what the *next* slide will say, mind you, but I can report that this one is framed in a very accountable navy blue with enticingly red lettering on an impartial white inset frame. We’re not sure if they’ll be handing out copies of the report itself before – or at the beginning of – Whitla’s presentation, but I’m sure it’ll go up on the website soon after he begins testifying, so you should totally be able to follow the bouncing bankroll along with ITQ.

9:16:22 AM

Okay, maybe I was being a bit too vicariously ambitious on the part of the inquiry communications team — who, if I haven’t said it enough already, have gone above and beyond the call of duty to fulfill our constant and capricious demands — since the report is, apparently, on the hefty side, as tomes go; the executive summary alone is nearly two inches thick. In that case, we may have to wait a bit longer for the eventual PDF, but I promise to do my best not to get all of you hopelessly lost.

9:25:31 AM
And – all rise! Hey, there’s Whitla, who snuck up to the witness stand unobserved by the ordinarily all-seeing ITQ eye, but before he gets started, Wolson has a few remarks to put on the record.

Ooh, this might be interesting: He wants to remind the judge of the three memos related to “the birds”, which goes to the source of funds.

First, there is no evidence that Mulroney knew the *source* of the funds, nor does counsel assert that the payments were for anything other than — and then he slips, and says the A-word That Must Not Be Spoken, but corrects it to “not Airbus”. Other than that, the judge will have to be informed by the evidence when he writes the report.

Um. Wow. Way to get us off to an intriguing start.

9:34:17 AM
Roitenberg begins the main examination – see, I know the right terms now! I’m learning so much at Oliphant Inquiry Law School, really – by getting Whitla to give a quick rundown of his background – chartered accountant, specialist designation in investigative and forensic accounting, did his time at Gomery, etc – as we all fidget impatiently waiting for the presentation to begin.

So, anyone recall if the commission counsel gave a similar speech before the Gomery forensic report was submitted to the court? I’m curious as to whether this is unusual.

9:37:35 AM
Okay, here we go – Roitenberg gets Whitla to explain what, exactly, Navigant was asked to do for the Oliphant inquiry, and at that point, the report is officially tabled as an exhibit, which means we should be able to get copies in the media encampment soon. In response to a question from Roitenberg, Whitla notes that he was “greatly limited” by the lack of bank documents, as well as material obtained from the Swiss and German authorities, which weren’t available, and – oh, there’s the first slide. And – wow, it’s pretty much illegible from where we’re sitting, although I can report that there are four columns, and lots of dollar signs.

9:44:07 AM
Okay, after a bit of legal housekeeping – Oliphant has to rule that Whitla is a qualified expert in forensic accounting – he – Whitla, that is, gives an overview of the slide, which apparently everyone but the media has up on their respective screens; we’re still squinting at the wall. Whitla says they had a complete statement for the Briton account, as well as statements for the Frankfurt account — which received deposits of over $4 million, but had supporting documents of only $350,000. Well, that’s a bit of a gap, isn’t it? According to Whitla, they could see the deposits from the bank statements, but not *what* went in, or why.

More accounts, more discrepencies – some of these accounts are numbered, not named, and – oh, thank goodness for Richard Wolson, who just came back with two much-needed copies of the presentation for the media. Not to be outdone, Roitenberg then interrupts his questioning to warn the judge that some reporters are having trouble seeing the screen, and the judge assures him that he wants to make sure we *all* enjoy “death by PowerPoint”.

Then we’re off to a new slide — this one, showing the alleged flow of $300,000 from the Britan account to Schreiber, who withdrew it in case – and then a timeline, which refers to a withdrawl from the Frankfurt account in May 1993, and – you guys, this is *really* confusing.

9:56:32 AM
This, on the other hand, isn’t – the subtitle of an upcoming series of slides: “Basis for opinion that inference can be drawn that FRANKFURT Funds used to Fund the Transfer to BRITAN came from Airbus”.

10:00:26 AM
Okay, I admit I’ve been flipping through the presentation while Roitenberg has been guiding him through it, slide by slide, but he seems to have gotten to the gist, as it were – the timeline that crossreferences cash withdrawls by Schreiber with “certain alleged meetings” between he and Mulroney between June 3, 1993 and December 14th, 1994; Whitla stresses that since these were, of course, in cash, there is no documentary evidence that connects the money with the payments — note: no *documentary* evidence. Eventually, in December 1994, the original Britan account was closed, and $212,000 was transferred to a *new* Britan account.

The analysis of the facts supports a strong interference that the money that funded the Britan account came from Airbus, Whitla says. I — think that’s the story here, yes?

10:14:36 AM
Whitlaw goes into more detail on the difficulty of tracing the deposits, the withdrawals — pretty much everything, which isn’t really a surprise; the two IAL accounts were particularly light on documentation, with just one page of statements for each, despite deposits of, in one case, over $21 million. Apparently, some of the statements came from Schreiber’s submission to the inquiry, others were produced by the government, although there were also many documents that *haven’t* yet been released by the Swiss authorities. Oh, the Swiss. So cautious.

10:21:26 AM
Hey, there’s Bitucan, and that $610,000 transfer in 1988 that may or may not have been paid out in “success fees”, with another $100,000 from the Canadian account. Roitenberg is doing his best, but this is incredibly tricky to follow, I have to admit – and apologize.

10:22:41 AM
Over to page 14 of the presentation, which shows a timeline of the Frankfurt account with “three distinct time periods” between October 1988 and December 1993, we’re now going to look at the *last* time period – March 13, 1992 to July 28, 1993, which ended with a $500,000 transfer to the Britan account after a series of seven “significant deposits”, all of which were close to 25% of deposits made to a New York account, which tallies what Schreiber had claimed was his usual practice.

Roitenberg speaks for all of us when he reminds Whitla that he has to keep in mind that the rest of us – or at least some of the rest of us – are baffled by numbers, and asks him to give some context; basically, I think he is saying that the pattern of transfers backs up what Schreiber has said, at least as far as depositing a percentage of funds in a “subaccount”.

Roitenberg notes that there was a “rather large” sum of money flowing through the .4 account – over $21 million – and asks if there were any other accounts that took in that much money; there were not. There were also no other accounts that dealt in US dollars, which Whitla says was significant, as that was the currency in which the Airbus payments were reportedly made.

10:35:40 AM
Whitla takes us step by step through a deposit made in August 25, 1992, to show how the percentage worked, and points to the May 13, 1993 payment that demonstrates the money was going from .4 to Frankfurt — there’s no direct documentation of a transfer, but it was an exchange of US dollars into Canadian funds for exactly the expected percentage.

10:38:20 AM
In a nutshell, Roitenberg inveigles Whitla, can he summarize the flow of funds related to the $300,000 cash withdrawals from Britan, and — oooh, a seriously pretty flowchart, and yes, I’ll try to figure out how to upload it as soon as my head stops spinning. Anyway, the money goes from Airbus to an Unknown Account Holder to IAL the first to Frankfurt to Britan to Schreiber’s pocket. Aroitenberg again gets Whitla to confirm that there is *no evidence* that the recipient of those funds – Mr. Mulroney, or anyone else – would have been able to know the original source of the money. With cash withdrawals, it’s just not possible. There are also many, many funds that can’t be traced – cash withdrawals with no record of the ultimate receipient – totalling nearly $10 million.

Was there any evidence of any payments to Mulroney? None of the banking records showed that he was the recipient of the funds, Whitla says.

And — morning break? Before we’re let out for recess, the judge wants to know if Whitla is saying that it is “reasonable to conclude” that the money received by Mulroney from Schreiber came from Airbus – yes, it is – but nothing to confirm that he *knew* that, which Whitla also confirms.

Roitenberg points out that actually, there’s no definitive way to document that the money that came from Britan was the same that went to Mulroney, and – okay, yeah.

Breaktime! See you in fifteen minutes!

10:55:20 AM
Two quick notes, just to make sure these salient points weren’t lost in translation — liveblogging accountants reading flowcharts is *hard*! Let’s go shopping! — the documentation trails off when the money turns into cash, and the Swiss haven’t turned over some of the information requested by the commission. Also, there is a lot of money that has gone missing, and Schreiber is grinning like a flock of Cheshire cats, but who knows what that means, really.

11:10:57 AM
Before we start, can I once again voice my most profound gratitude to Roitenberg for making such an effort to ensure we media folks can follow along with the presentation, despite two different sets of page numbers and some of our pathological difficulty in reading flowcharts? Okay, good.

11:12:41 AM
Oliphant opens the next part of the hearing by getting Whitla to clarify once again that, testifying as a forensic accountant, he can’t definitively associate the withdrawals from Britan with the payments to Mulroney, although he *can* strongly infer that the Britan account was funded largely from the Airbus account.

Also, the Swiss *and* the Germans have actually refused to hand over the documents. Thanks, guys.

11:15:38 AM
Okay, we’re now moving from the presentation to the report itself — which none of us have — and the documents used to prepare it, which have all now been submitted into evidence; with that, Roitenberg is done with Whitla, and opens the floor to the other lawyers, should they have any questions for the witness.

11:16:45 AM
Team Mulroney up – Grondier is at the lectern, and he admits that if Roitenberg is confused, he’s even confused-ier — he has one bank account — “and it isn’t in Switzerland” — and sometimes forgets his PIN. Don’t we all. Anyway, he points Whitla to one of the appendices to the report, and gets him to confirm that most of the bank accounts listed are controlled by Schreiber; he does, however, note that he can’t conclusively confirm that Schreiber controlled *all* of them, although there are transfers from those ones to Schreiber’s accounts.

Grondier then chats with Whitla about how long he worked on the report – since January – and that sort of thing, and – you know, Whitla seems like a very agreeable sort; he keeps having trouble with his microphone, which is either too far or too close, and unfailingly apologizes to the listening audience when he notices.

11:22:11 AM
Grondier would like to point out that this is not, to put it mildly, the normal, everyday banking arrangementfor an average person – given that there may be accounts that Schreiber did *not* provide to the commission, it’s impossible to know exactly how the money flowed. Oliphant warns Grondier against putting words into the mouth of the witness — Whitla does agree that it was a “relatively complex” arrangement. I think we can all stipulate to that one.

11:24:32 AM
Grondier also points out that, among the other limitations of the report, as detailed in the introduction, was the fact that no *original* documentatio was provided. Once Whitla confirms that fact — it’s in the report, so I’m not sure what the point was of that exchange — Grondier steps down, and Robert Houston takes his place. Huh. Didn’t think he’d have questions for this witness.

11:26:24 AM
Houston notes that, counting up the number of accounts that were covered by the report, it seems there were a total of “thirty or forty” separate accounts. He also draws Whitla’s attention to an entity called “Rockliffe Enterprises”, which was controlled by Schreiber, to which several transfers were made in 1993, which total approximately $225,000. Does Whitla know the purpose of that money? No, he doesn’t – he didn’t have access to those documents, nor documents related to yet another Schreiber-controlled account.

11:29:31 AM
Bitucan! I’m sorry, I just get so excited when a familiar word surfaces amid all these numbers and charts. Anyway, Houston tries to get Whitla to confirm that he didn’t have access to cancelled cheques related to a ScotiaBank account, but when Whitla demurs, noting that he had one, Houston shows his crankiness, and then moves on to a 1988 cheque for $4 million and change that was written on the Kensington account, and was payable to IAL, as well as a payment to Schreiber of $4 million, also 1988, from just after the Understanding in Principle was signed.

Oh, and Whitla had no documentation for the Bitucan account for 1988, but here, Houston’s line of questioning runs into a slight hurdle; he tries to get Whitla to say he has no documentation from the Bank of Montreal account — yes, another account — but Whitla points out that, had there been cheques for, say, $90,000 paid through that account, it would show up in the scripting.

11:36:06 AM
Richard Auger takes the floor, and elicits the perhaps not insignificant bit of information that Whitla’s investigation did *not* include any accounts held by Fred Doucet or Brian Mulroney – really? Why is that? Does it somehow fall outside the mandate? Anyway, he wonders if Whitla is willing to confirm reviewing “literally hundreds of pages” of Schreiberian bank documents, he didn’t come across a single retraction – true – as well as Schreiber’s diary.

11:38:34 AM
Auger has Whitla go back through the slide that flows the money through Airbus, to IAL, to Frankfurt, where it hangs out with all its other little money friends, including over $100,000 from other accounts and interest earned, and then to Britan via the alleged 25% deposit rule.

11:41:42 AM
Redirect by Roitenberg! One brief area of reexamination, he promises – about that production of documents by Schreiber. Back in March, he notes, Schreiber agreed to be interviewed by Navigant, which he was, as confirmed by Whitla.

That’s it for the witness, who is now free to leave; Roitenberg notes that due to the predicted bafflement by numbers that he scheduled the entire day for this witness, and Oliphant – who is really kind of adorable, honestly – gravely asks him if he’s inferring that we’re done for the day, and the fact that I now find callbacks to forensic accountant testimony to be capable of making me laugh in court is probably something we should all worry about, really, but yet. There it is. A bit of amused back and forth, and we’re out for the day — the shortest one yet, but that’s okay by ITQ; she has to prepare for tomorrow’s reappearance by Schreiber. Whee!

Which means she’s signing off for the moment, but stay tuned.

11:49:27 AM
Oops – spoke too soon; SchreiberScrum! The amazing Rosemary Barton asks how it felt to have his version of the forensic events confirmed by a third party, and Schreiber – who is definitely happier than I’ve seen him in a while – says it felt good, but wants to highlight the refusal of the Swiss and German governments to fork over the evidence — he notes that the only way to force those governments to release the information is by consent. Oh, he’d also like to note that the evidence from the German prosecutor – yes, there was some of that – was comprised of their allegations, not necessarily hard documents. He’s the only one who provided documents – yes, I’m very tired of typing that word – voluntarily.

“If you want to follow the money,” he points out, you need *all* the accounts – not just his, but the Frank Moores, GCI, Fred Doucet and, yes, Brian Mulroney. He is “keen” to find out where the “big money” went — there were some sizeable accounts, so where did it go? “It didn’t disappear,” he lectures us, owlishly. When the *other* people are prepared to release *their* documents — unredacted — we’ll know the truth.

Or something like that.

And with that, Auger collects his client, and the scrum comes to an enigmatic close. “À demain,” indeed.

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  • Wascally Wabbit

    Navigant sounds too much like Navigator – the company that Robin Sears – now shilling for Mulroney – is a principal of – isn’t it?

    Gonna be tricky to keep them separate in my brain now…

  • SAB

    Kady, do you know what this whole shindig is costing taxpayers? Even in legal fees alone? Is that FOIable?

    Maybe it’s all part of the stimulus….

    • Just Visiting

      Usually the budget is set by PCO, but you won’t know complete expenditures until reported after the fact.

      Canada is the only country I can think of where a former PM’s highly-questionable activity after leaving office comes under investigation, and people (or at least ax-grinding partisans) worry not about the issues is raises, but about how much the inquiry will cost.

      - JV

      • Stephen

        When you get testimony from respected senior ministers and bureacrats that consistently say, “there was never any pressure on any file” and in fact praising the former PM for respecting the process, and there is no new information implicating this alleged activity, and this has has been investigated for 20+ years then I think it is a fair question to ask value for money, or what the point is.

        But don’t put me in there, Mulroney called for the inquiry….so we go around the mulberry bush one last (lets hope) time.

        Maybe we will learn something earth shattering today

        • Dot

          Did you get your contract, or are you still doing this pro bono?

          • Stephen

            Pro Bono…..but its easy when all I am relying on is evidence, or lack thereof. Creating theories and tying things together without evidence is hard work. Not something I like to do for free.

          • Dot

            So, what did you think of this hard evidence from yesterday:

            Fred Doucet, a former aide to Brian Mulroney, urged a Progressive Conservative senator to rally support for a proposed armoured-vehicle factory more than a year before he left government to lobby for the project and collect $90,000 from Karlheinz Schreiber, according to notes released yesterday at a public inquiry.

            I gather your argument, without thinking as is usual, would be that Doucet had gone rogue while in the PMO.

            http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090506.MULRONEY06ART2301/TPStory/?query=doucet

      • SAB

        First of all, others may be ax-grinding partisans. Federally, I’ve voted nothing but Liberal since I was old enough to vote.

        Second, Canada is likely the only country where a Prime Minister who has been investigated criminally and cleared, would 20 years later be subjected to a three-ring circus that is largely politically driven and created based on the personal interests of a criminal who should’ve been extradited long ago and is playing politicians, the media and Canadians like fiddles. All of this for a piddly some of money that wasn’t even taken from the Canadian people.

        If we were serious about getting to the bottom of this either (1) we would re-open a criminal investigation based on new evidence or (2) the victim – presumably the Canadian gov’t – would file a lawsuit against Brian Mulroney where at least they could recover legal fees (3) if they insisted on doing this stupid inquiry thing it would be done behind closed doors with a full report released at the end to avoid all of this stupid political grandstanding.

        Chretien claimed that public inquiry lawyers were paid by the hour and have zero incentive to do anything but drag this stuff out – I don’t know if it’s true here, but if it is I don’t like it.

        There is nothing partisan or wrong with suggesting that it is a waste of millions of dollars to re-investigate something that ocurred more than 20 years ago, involving a relatively tiny sum of money given the more important issues the government, the media and Canadians ought to be focusing on.

        • NordicNorm

          “Second, Canada is likely the only country where a Prime Minister who has been investigated criminally and cleared, …”

          Correction – Mulroney was never “investigated criminally and cleared” – the Canadian gov’t settlled out of court.

          During his defamation suit, Mulroney never mentioned receiving money from Herr Schreiber. In fact, he never even decalred the income until Schreiber started talking publically about their relationship in a bid to avoid extradition.

          • tobyornotoby

            And the court case was about the propriety of even investigating him!

          • SAB

            The RCMP did investigate – they dropped it. Maybe they did a s@#$ job but it just means that should investigate again if there is new evidence.

        • herringchoker

          The relevant question is why didn’t Air Canada ever ask for its money back from Airbus? If all this talk about $20 million in commissions (its actually $19 million for Airbus and $1 million for MBB) is true, Airbus violated its sales agreement with AC, which stated there were to be no commissions. If commissions were paid, AC was entitled to a $19 million refund. Did AC ever demand repayment? Not that I’ve ever heard.

          The real questions that need to be answered are: why did Airbus pay KH $19 million? and why did Thyssen pay him $6 million? What were they getting? What was he supposed to do with the money? The answer to that, I’m afraid, has more to do with why KH wants to avoid extradition (the money was a slush fund for German politicians – http://tiny.cc/MBjj6) than anything that any Canadian politician needs answer for. Of course, the German connection doesn’t involve Mulroney, wich is probably why you’ve never heard about it from the Fifth Estate.

          And yes, $14 million is an inordinate waste of money for so0mething unrelated to how Canada is governed today.

    • MJH

      Estimated cost is $13 million chasing the trail of $$225,000 or $300,000. Only in Canada, eh!

      • NordicNorm

        MJH, I do not understand your comment?

        What is the value to Canadians for ensuring the integrity of, not only the Prime Minister, but all MPs, remains above reproach?

        How many millions did we spend on Gomery, only to witness a few rogue bureaucrats being charged (much to the dismay of the anti-Liberal crowd)?

        Is it your opinion that, since Gomery did not result in any Liberal MPs being charged, that that inquiry was a waste of taxpayer’s money?

        • MJH

          The Liberal Party returned $1.2 million to the Federal Govt., one scammer returned over a million dollars and several Liberal Party operatives and supporters were charged.

          Was it worth it? I guess that is a matter of personal opinion and you have to have faith it will be a deterrent and “ensure the integrity of all MPs”, but I doubt it. Brown envelopes will continue as long as payoffs are expected.

  • Stephen

    Numbers are good.

    Sadly trails end when they turn to cash.

    But escherian diagrams, cool, can you highlight whatever the on line link to these flow diagrams might be.

    Wouldnt it be funny if they were drawn using some mid 90′s Microsoft Clip art…….very retro

  • Northern PoV

    Estimated cost is $13 million chasing the trail of $$225,000 or $300,000. Only in Canada, eh!

    It will be worth $13M for the future deterrent value alone. (Ya politicians needs to be deterred from the dark side just like (potential) common crooks.)

    That said, I agree with JV: how can you losers worry not about the issues is raises, but about how much the inquiry will cost

    finally: $13M is cheap for the schadenfreude!! ;-)

    • MJH

      Do you really think the Gomery Commission findings will be deterrent to political skullduggery, brown envelopes and doing favours in exchange for political support? NOT.

      • Northern PoV

        no deterrent value to future pols considering their options????
        Then really – why bother? all these inquiries cost lots more than the “crime”
        no monetary value

      • http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

        Are you kidding? The Gomery inquiry crippled the Liberal party. No one in their right mind will ever go down that road again. It may not end influence-peddling, but it will certainly deter political parties from pumping government money into their own election machines.

  • http://barrymcloughlin.blogspot.com/ Steph C

    Hey, there’s Barry the Bowtie Guy in the front row. Is there a shuttle bus between the old and new city halls? (New Ottawa City Hall next door to courthouse. How conveeeeeeeeeeeenient!) And are there any government comms people in this town who have not taken the Encountering the Media workshop? *sigh* Good times!

  • Stephen

    Dot wrote,

    “So, what did you think of this hard evidence from yesterday:

    Fred Doucet, a former aide to Brian Mulroney, urged a Progressive Conservative senator to rally support for a proposed armoured-vehicle factory more than a year before he left government to lobby for the project and collect $90,000 from Karlheinz Schreiber, according to notes released yesterday at a public inquiry.

    I gather your argument, without thinking as is usual, would be that Doucet had gone rogue while in the PMO.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090506.MULRONEY06ART2301/TPStory/?query=doucet

    Hey thanks for asking.

    Well Fred wasn’t in the PMO anymore as the story points out.

    “At the time of his June 15, 1987, phone call, Mr. Doucet was serving as Canada’s ambassador of international summits, a position that he filled after leaving the prime minister’s office.”

    But that is a technicality. Being a believer in personal responsibility I think Fred D has a lot to answer for, using the PM’s name while he is on another job for him is a big ethical, at a minimum, no no and proabably a legal one.

    Fred D had the incentive, apparently, to push this and he did. Once again going back to the evidence all the other senior players say MBM exerted no pressure. So you are left with a blank. Burney didnt indicate that there was pressure to sign the UiP, Beatty did not indicate that there was pressure from BM to sign the Uip nor did the Tellier.

    If your goal is to tie Mulroney to success payments for Bearhead, a project that was never allowed to proceed while he was PM, you have a tough case, based on what we know, to make.

    If there had been indications from these senior people that Mulroney placed pressure on them, or they were aware of pressure placed on others by him you would have a case.

    I won’t defend Fred D., and I think you will find that poor old Fred has some difficult questions to answer. As we have seen, he doesnt appear to have good ones.

    So was Fred rogue, sure looks like he felt free to be enterprising, now that he was out of the PMO. Whether he breached ethics rules for lobbying is a judgement Oliphant will have to make. My opinion would be yes.

    Once again, its a lot less work to let the story tell itself. But having to wade through inncorrect inneundo comes marginally close to work, I guess I better prepare the invoice to Robin.

    Do you think he’ll pay me in cash?

    • Dot

      Do you think he’ll pay me in cash?

      No, because what you are suggesting is that Doucet was conspiring behind Mulroney’s back, and I doubt they would pay for such a low level conspiracy theory.

      • Stephen

        Conspiracy theory? Just letting the evidence speak. Do you have evidence that MBM was directing Fred D. or trying to influence others to give Fred D what he apparently was seeking? Thats what you need to make your theory work. All evidence for the moment says no influence being exercised by MBM.

        I don’t know what the answer is but if Fred D was given an incentive by KHS to make the signature happen is it suprising that Fred D follows the carrot? Is that hard to believe?

        Did I hear it correctly or did Doucet’s lawyer just get Navigant to admit that the $90,000 cheque that is in evidence not a cancelled cheque? (as in there is no MICR on the cheque with the amount. And did I also hear that Navigant did not review the bank records of the account that this cheque was cashed on?

        Maybe I misheard. A non cancelled cheque means nothing, unfotunately. Perhaps someone else can clarify. It would turn the $90,000 payment into another he said/she said…with neither side being reliable, ugh…..

        • Dot

          I noticed that you avoided my direct question in the previous ITQ blog:

          Stephen, in all seriousness, have you ever taken a law course, or been involved in legal proceedings or hearings?

          Your non answer, as well as today’s twisted logic, provides me enough evidence to conclude you have no direct experience. And no, I don’t need your transcripts to reach that conclusion.

          • Stephen

            Dot,

            My apologies I generally dont go and back re read once the day is done. I am sorry if I missed your message, I wouldnt take a non answer to a question you pose as an an insult….sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, so to speak.

            I am not a lawyer. I have never purported to be. I have made clear what is my opinion and I think a reasonable request that there be documentation/supporting testimony not just innunedo to document a claim of bribery….especially one that is dcades old. If you are saying that you can only have an opinion if you are a lawyer I think we have a fundamental disagreement.

            If you want to discuss a specific statement, I would be happy to (I can hear the groans from rest of the baord)

            Now I wrote a longer piece but I will leave it at the following…….

            We have differences of opinion, I respect that, and I don’t mind banter but I fear this is getting out of hand. I dont OWE you answers and you dont owe them to me. So if you want to be civil I dont mind a back and forth but if you want to get irrational about things then perhaps another course of action should be considered.

            My preference is for a good natured back and forth, in the spirit that everyone here is seeking an answer and closure to the troubling allegations. But I will leave it up to you.

          • Dot

            . I dont OWE you answers and you dont owe them to me

            No, on this item, you did.

            You had suggested earlier I was in the habit of libeling people “I’ll recommend you to Harvey Cashore, but make sure you have good libel insurance and your assets are all in someone elses name.” and on other occasions had suggested I was the author of conspiracy theories, railroaded people etc.

            I have been quite straightforward in suggesting I have not come to any conclusions and will wait until all evidence is in before doing so, and even then, I won’t have access and/or time to review the thousands of pages of documentation that the parties to the Inquiry will have.

            So, now that we have cleared up that you are simply a layperson (a partisan one in my opinion), with no legal training, I will place little if any weight on your suggestions above – as should anyone else.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Lyndon McIntyre seems to think that follow the money is going to put Oliphant into a tailspin – the money leads – or came from Airbus accounts – and Oliphant is going to be quoting Mr. Johnson’s scope limiting comment that the Airbus field has been well ploughed or something…
    Tell us Kady – can you see the whites of Robin Sears’ eyes yet – trying hard to spin away the implications of this?

  • Harbles

    Schreiber is grinning like a flock of Cheshire cats

    The most commonly cited collective term for cats is clowder.

    This message brought to you by readers without anything more substantial to add to the discussion.

    • Stephen

      That is a valuable contribution

      Somehow this seems appropriate.

      >>>
      Cheshire Cat: If I were looking for a white rabbit, I’d ask the Mad Hatter.

      Alice: The Mad Hatter? Oh, no no no…

      Cheshire Cat: Or, you could ask the March Hare, in that direction.

      Alice: Oh, thank you. I think I’ll see him…

      Cheshire Cat: Of course, he’s mad, too.

      Alice: But I don’t want to go among mad people.

      Cheshire Cat: Oh, you can’t help that. Most everyone’s mad here.
      [laughs maniacally; starts to disappear]
      Cheshire Cat: You may have noticed that I’m not all there myself.
      <<<<

      So Kady, did KHS start to disappear as he smiled.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    I always found cat clowder to be a little fishy!

  • Mulletaur

    So the money Schreiber used to pay Mulroney came from the Airbus commissions.

    Remind me again why the RCMP are not continuing their investigation ?

    • MJH

      It matters little which bank account the cash came from, it could have been any one of 35 or 40 acccounts Schreiber used.

      The real isssue is what was the money paid for. Did Mulroney get paid for a role in granting the airbus purchases or was he paid, as he and Schreiber allege, for consulting on the Bear Head project??

      • Mulletaur

        It does matter to some extent where the money came from as it could still constitute evidence of a of a connection between Airbus and Mulroney. However, you are right to the extent that Herr Schmiergeld had so much money in corrupt gifts in so many accounts that it would be easy to treat the whole as one big slush fund. Ultimately, this sort of thing is for a jury to decide. That is not the question. The question is why our national police force has not continued its investigation in the face of a prima facie corrupt gift connected physically to the Airbus commissions received by Schreiber.

        • Stephen

          As they pointed out numerous times the source of the funding is interesting but not nearly as interesting if you can link knowledge of source and ideally purpose.

          Buying a pack of gum from an account that was funded by selling crack doesnt make the convenience store clerk guilty of anything.

          • Wascally Wabbit

            Dear dear – you show them how to connect the dots…and they can’t follow the birdseed (sorry about the mixed metaphores)!
            Explain to me dear friends Stephen and MJH – why KHS would take money from Airbus accounts and pay somebody – possibly Mr. Mulroney – (not yet proven – but you don’t have to in an Inquiry) – if it was for some other matter.
            Please – he has to explain to HIS masters where the money went….

  • Maggie’s Farmboy

    Given the way Airbus did business at the time, it would have been news if there wasn’t an attempt to bribe any and all officials capable of approving the purchase of those aircraft.

    Now it established that he money paid to Mulroney came from just such a fund.

    And Mulroney admits that he received at least most of said money. In cash. In an envelope, in a hotel room.

    And he did not declare it until much later.

    There are not that many dots, and very few, if any, remaining to be connected.

  • http://yappadingding.blogspot.com/ Yappa

    The money has to be spent to get to the bottom of this. The RCMP should have figured it out but they fell down on the job. They never cleared Mulroney; they just eventually gave up. Most of the important evidence about the case was unearthed by the media or disclosed by Schreiber… if the RCMP managed to uncover it, they never released what they learned.

    It’s difficult to prosecute a former PM. It sets a precedent that current PMs don’t want to set; and it seems to many like misusing power to punish opposition; and it has political implications. Maybe that explains the inability of the RCMP to figure this out… political pressure under Chretien and Harper… or maybe they’re just incompetent boobs. Likely both.

    Mulroney took hundreds of thousands in cash from an arms dealer; agreed to take the money while PM; and took some of the cash while still an MP. But that’s just the tip of the ice berg. This is about wide scale corruption of many in the Mulroney government. This is about Airbus and where the $20M went; about Bear Head and where the $4M went; and doubtless there’s other bribe money.

    i agree with Schreiber that we’ll never get to the bottom of it unless someone does a forensic audit of Mulroney. We knew while he was PM that he had a LOT more cash than could be accounted for. Stevie Cameron provided even more evidence of that in On the Take.

    • Maggie’s Farmboy

      I do not know the story behind the investigation, but it is likely the RCMP “gave up” after failing to get the documents from the Swiss authorities, after the contrived “libel” claim ended in a $2 million settlement. It was pretty clear that they were not going to get the documents after that.

      • Mulletaur

        Not true. All they had to do was resubmit their international rogatory letter with a more neutral phraseology. It’s actually not hard at all. I don’t know why the RCMP even exists as a national police force if they can’t handle something as simple as this.

        • Maggie’s Farmboy

          Right. Submit it throught the same Department of Justice that was busy paying Mulroney $2 million dollars. While the media was howling for blood and William Kaplan was writing front page stories defending Mulroney.

          And the Swiss still won’t share the documents.

          And investigating Prime Ministers for alleged criminal activites is always easy.

          Yes, let’s blame the Mounties.

          • Stephen

            The German Secret Service surruptitiously purchased swiss customer account databases about 18 months ago. The information, and answers that could clear up a lot of these questions sits over there, imho.

            We wont extradite someone they want to prosecute, why in the world should the German’s share anything with us for a non-criminal investigation that might reveal their case early?

            If KHS paid money to mulroney then it would come out at his trial. If KHS paid Moores 10 million dollars it would come out at his trial. “Grease Money” was tax deductible, it isnt anymore. KHS could have claimed bribes as legitimate company expenses, as long as they were to non Germans, but he would need proof. Unless of course the money was never claimed as income, which is what the German tax authorities seem most interested in.

          • Mulletaur

            There’s no choice but to submit it through the Justice Department and DFAIT, that’s the way comrog’s work. And the RCMP is to blame – they worded the comrog inappropriately, particularly given the highly political nature of the request. Investigating former Prime Ministers, Presidents, etc. is never easy, but the French and Germans do it all the time. The Swiss will share the documents when they know we are serious about investigating it. All it takes is the will to move forward. But as long as there are people like you to play on the ignorance of the general public about how these sorts of criminal investigations should and do work in practice, nobody will question the decision of the RCMP not to proceed.

          • Mulletaur

            Stephen, except that the BND purchased information from Liechtenstein, not Switzerland, and the Germans already have enough evidence of Schreiber having committed offences, otherwise they could not have launched an extradition request, what you say might, in some remote, chaos theory way, somehow be related. Nice attempt at introducing a red herring, though. Mulroney’s PR team are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now …

    • Wascally Wabbit

      Dear Yappa – you dig yourself in deeper while trying to practice pretzeling!
      If you refer to KHS as an arms dealer – which he isn’t he doesn’t trade in arms – even light armoured troop carriers – he trades in setting up the companies that might build them – then by extension – you infer that Mr. Mulroney dealt with an arms dealer. Since you use it in a pejorative manner – you infer that Mulroney doesn’t care who he associates with….
      One more round?

    • Maggie’s Farmboy

      Mulletaur, DOJ policy requires that such requests be reviewed and approved by Justice lawyers:

      43.6 Outgoing Requests for Assistance

      43.6.1 General
      All outgoing mutual legal assistance requests flow through the IAG. The relevant investigating or prosecuting authority in Canada (hereinafter “the competent authority”) should send the Director of the IAG a draft request prepared following the format of Appendix A or B. Each request for a pre-charge investigation must contain a caution along the following lines:

      This Letter of Request is made to assist an ongoing police investigation being undertaken by a Canadian investigative agency. All information contained in this request is provided from the police investigation and consists of unproved allegations which the police investigators believe merit investigation. No charges have been laid and all persons named in this letter are presumed innocent under Canadian law. All information in this request is confidential. All statements or information contained in this request must be read as a whole in the context of the investigative nature of this request.

      The Director assigns all outgoing requests to IAG counsel for review. In assigning the file to counsel, the Director will advise if the request appears to be sensitive, unusual or significant.

      All requests for assistance must, before transmittal, be submitted by IAG counsel to the Director for approval. The Director must bring to the attention of the Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Section, any sensitive, unusual or significant request for assistance before it is forwarded to foreign authorities. If further consultations are required, the case may be referred to the Assistant Deputy Attorney General (Criminal Law). Pursuant to general policy, the Assistant Deputy Attorney General (Criminal Law) may inform the Deputy Minister of the request.

      • Mulletaur

        Yes, that is indeed what I confirmed when I wrote “There’s no choice but to submit it through the Justice Department.”

  • Bonnie N

    Jeepers Kady

    This was very complicated and watching it on CPAC was not useful ‘cause all the slides were not shown. So there was not the connect the dots moment for me except for the Airbus segway which really does not hurt Mulroney as he likely did not know from where the proceeds came.

    There seems to be very little monies coming from Thyssen which is curious to say in the least based on the forensic audit. KHS has always insisted this was all about the Bearhead project.

    So my cross examination of KHS…

    Have you provided the Commission all your banking documentation from Thyssen? Why was there no business plan from Thyssen for Bearhead?

    In fact was Bearhead a shell project to payoff bribes to government officials for Airbus?

  • Tam

    Stevie Cameron — where are you? Just a grinnin’ and sayin’ “I told you so” — read my book!

  • TinTincognito

    Smoking gun, yikes!!!.. hot, hot hot!

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