The Conservative advertising campaign against Michael Ignatieff has spurred the federal Liberals to sharply accelerate their fundraising activity so they can pay for a “focused response to the personal attacks” on the new leader, Maclean’s has learned.
The Liberals are rushing ahead with a major change to the party’s organization, which only two weeks ago they had planned for the autumn, so they can be ready for a much more robust summer of activity. Emergency meetings of the Liberals’ various governing bodies are underway, with more planned for next week. The goal: a $25 million annual war chest and a vastly expanded grassroots organization to pay for it.
On Saturday, May 9 — four days before the ads began airing — the Liberals’ new party president, Toronto lawyer Alfred Apps, and Rocco Rossi, who as the party’s executive director is in charge of fundraising, met Ignatieff to settle on a two-year strategic plan for the party. The plan’s emphasis was to “dramatically” increase private donations to the party by “significantly” expanding the part of the party’s organization that deals with fundraising.
A not-insignificant benefit of the changes would be “reducing the vulnerability associated with our reliance/ dependency upon the public subsidy of our operations and activities,” Apps wrote in a memo to Liberal riding association presidents.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper targeted public subsidies of political parties in last autumn’s economic and fiscal update, which led directly to the confidence crisis that forced Harper to seek the proroguation of Parliament to keep his job. Harper has told interviewers he still intends to cut public funding of political parties if he wins re-election. Because of longstanding weakness in attracting small private donors, the Liberal Party has, in recent years, been uniquely dependent on the public subsidy.
In his memo to riding presidents, Apps reports that he planned to get approval for structural changes and a new fundraising approach, based on “the possibilities that modern technologies and communication methods open up,” over the summer.
But that was before the Conservatives announced an ambitious nationwide ad buy, which portrays Ignatieff as a carpetbagger who is “just visiting” after 34 years abroad.
“I believe the advertising campaign undertaken by our opponents last week has created the opportunity to galvanize the entire Party around a reinvigorated fundraising effort now, even before the summer commences,” Apps writes.
So on May 18, five days after the Conservative ads started running, Apps held a special meeting of the Liberals’ National Management Committee, which agreed to move the implementation of the fundraising plan forward from Sept. 1 to June 1. A resolution passed at the management committee meeting says hurrying ahead with the fundraising changes will allow “a constructive, comprehensive and focused response to the personal attacks on [the party's] Leader by instead addressing the Harper Conservatives’ failed approach to the economic crisis and refusal to adopt the Liberal EI plan.”
The resolution must be endorsed by the Liberals’ Council of the Presidents, which comprises riding-association presidents from more than 300 ridings across the country. Apps has convened a conference call for that purpose on May 28, next Thursday.
- The fundraising plan is extraordinarily ambitious. The Liberals would seek, within a year, to nearly quintuple the party’s revenues from private donations over the 2008 level. The new goal: an annual war chest of $25 million, built on a massively increased pool of donors who, in most cases, agree to give at least annually, and often several times per year. Three mechanisms will be used for this objective:Membership in the Laurier Club, which is for people who contribute the maximum of $1,100 a year to the party, would be more than tripled to 10,000 members. A Leaders’ Circle will be created, with at least one member in every community in Canada with more than 50,000 people, to sign up new Laurier Club members.
- The Victory Fund, a more broad-based group of Liberal supporters who authorize monthly donations of $10, would get a major push with the goal of an eight-fold increase to 25,000 members within a year.
- Finally, the party would “make use of direct mail, telemarketing and established online/social media techniques to reach out to the millions of actual and potential Liberal supporters and sympathizers across Canada,” with the goal of raising $10,000,000 a year in small, one-off donations.
To say the least, it is not clear the Liberals can meet such ambitious targets. If they do, it will be in no small part due to the galvanizing influence the Conservative ad campaign has had on Liberals.
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avr: I still drive, walk two miles a day, volunteer for needy causes, and it seems pretty clear that I stay up late. If you can do the same at my age I would be darned surprised . So no, I wont go to sleep but you had better wake up young man ( I can hardly see a female talking like you) and learn to be well informed citizen.
Good on ya, Doris!
And may I say, the Maclean’s blogs rock! From fourteen to eighty-six, Canadians are engaging here. Same old arguments over and over (and over), but every now and then a genuine discussion breaks out.
i have a hard time staying up ’til 11:30 and i’m in my mid-twenties ;-). keep ‘em coming doris, your comment was probably the only one worth reading out of the last 200.
Good for the Liberals!
What have they been waiting for all these years since Chretien put the new donation rules into place? Do they honestly believe that the members of the Liberal party are going to begin donating when they, like the country, have no idea what the carpetbaqger stands for, what policies he intends to implement if elected to government and of course what does he really think about war, torture and the many other issues that he pronounced upon during his 34 years living outside the country?
I received a fundraising letter from the Conservatives the other day and was happy to help finance the campaign to expose the real Iggy to Canadians.
Since the media at large refuse to do the job they are paid to do then it is up to the Conservatives to help Canadians get to know the Liberal leader. The people will be the ultimate deciders of whether the truth ads have merit or not; not the media or the chattering class
Its interesting the media are suppose to be purveyors of unbiased information so that Canadians can make up their own minds. Then why all the criticism of the Conservatives by the media. If they have no dog in the hunt why the vitriolic statements about whether the truth ads will work or not.
Well Canadians have come to know the media for what it is. They know the media is biased and full of, arrogance who consider themselves to be an opposition party despite not having received one vote by any Canadian.
So indeed Canadians can make up their minds without the prompting of the media and the chattering class.
Great for the Conservatives! Keep up that garbage, and it will get you to the same place that the attack ads against Gordon Campbell got the NDP here in the recent election….won handily by that same Gordon Campbell. Thankfully ensuring a further 4 year term of responsible government for British Columbia. Iggy rules! And the Harper gang is scared to death of him. And rightly so!
How can you be scared of an enigma? Anything the Count has said he has generally retracted within 48 hours.
Remember the Liberal partisans and the media denounced the ads showing Dion not to be a leader and everybody said they would not work. Well, Canadians do watch the ads and they make up their own minds as to whether they have an element of truth. In Iggys case they absolutely do have that element of truth and the Liberals are terrified of their potential impact.
Running videos on You Tube simply confirm that the Liberals are in desperate shape financially and so Iggy and his syncophants can scream till the cows come home but I would suggest this is just the beginning of the ads. If the media don’t want to ask the tough questions of the patrician Iggy his political competitors sure will.
I don’t know about the negative ads in B.C. but I suspect Campbell won not because people didn’t like the negative ads but because he was deemed to be the most competent person to run the province.
Likewise Harper is being credited by economists and the financial chattering class for managing the economy well during this difficult time. Canadians do not tend to throw out a government who is felt to be doing a good job managing the economy.
There is no lack of policy. It was discussed at length in Vancouver for 4 days last month. Chretian called for an early election because he is says Harper take credit for the Olympics, just like he has taken credit for everything else the Liberals have done (like good banking regulation, elimination of the defecit, ongoing surplusses, cleaning up the last Conservative mess, etc. etc.)
Harper will say anything – he has a certain economy with the truth. Ignatieff’s creditentials are very impressive and Harper should be scared. Ignatieff is so much more intelligent, thoughtful, attractive and he has a good team working for him (unlike all those thirty-somethings who are running the PMO). Ignatieff has a moral compass instead of the 125 reasons or so Harper has provided to enure that Canadians don’t trust him.
Harper is toast, it is only a matter of time.
Just so you know Iggy left his wife for his new wife, yes, he had an extramarital affair, so in my book his morals don’t count! Abandoning your children is not right!
true. but neither is abandoning millions of Canadian children, their parents, and everyone else whose tax dollars and good will and our bankable value (as Canadians) make this govt run. need i remind you that this is exactly what the Fake-Cons did when they assassinated Dion’s character and his career through very slanderous and false methods (rewarding the putzes who did their bidding); set us up for major financial catastrophe (“synchronized” Disaster Capitalism) by taking their stupid matrix blue pill (we became house-poor); and shut us out of our own House, making us politically–and some of us literally–House- and homeless? the Fake-Cons are not governing for our sakes; not even for those who blindly support them. governance by ego is a very telling; and there is real consequence to Canadians presently and for the future.
Mr Ignatieff is not my fave, no party is; and clearly he is not perfect. but what i see in Ottawa right now is the worst i have ever seen, or any of my family members. even if i dislike the party hijack of our Parliamentary Democracy, we gotta start somewhere. the Liberals will have my thanks when the Fake-Cons are ousted.
considering PMStephen’s religion doesn’t he realize that even if you think it you’re wrong? please. go after Ignatieff like this and you insult so many other ppl in this country who’ve done the same thing. if you’re without error or mistake, go ahead and throw that stone; your glass house will shatter. remember there are 9 other “commandments” that PMStephen is beholden to. he’s the one who called himself a Christian. i hold him to it by his action and words; and by what he condones by being the head of his party. (“not doing the thing yourself; but having pleasure (benefit) in them that do it.”)
Sue: well don’t hide your light under a bushel! Let Canadians know what your policies are then and maybe your leader will have some credibility.
Trouble is the policies passed at the convention are probably not the platform the Count will show for the election. Once again the membership has little say what the party does anymore.
How juvenile. Call an election which will cost the taxpayers $300 million because Harper is taking credit for the Olympics. Come on the old war horse Chretien can do better than that.
Of course the Liberals are great. They steal from the hard working taxpayers of Canada but no problem after all they are Liberals and they are entitled to their entitlements.
Once again Liberals want to portray the deficit as the Mulroney deficit when anybody who knows anything about politics knows it was Trudeau with Chretien (as Finance Minister) who started the deficit binge back in the 70’s etc. Mulroney didn’t have the courage to take the action necessary but all that is history.
If you are calling the PM a liar then you had better give examples. What are Iggy’s qualifications to be PM? Does he know anything about economics? I doubt it. What are his real views on the war in Iraq and his support of all things Republcian in the States? What is his real position on torture? Does he or doesn’t he believe in it? Does he believe in higher taxes for Canadians? What does he think of the oil sands? What is his environmental policy? You get my drift.
So what are his credentials. How do you know Iggy is more intelligent than Harper. Because Iggy wrote some books, was a TV host in England and taught Human Rights at Harvard. Is this what makes you think Iggy is more intelligent? Attractive? Surely you are not talking about physical appearance are you?
How do you know that the PMO is full of 30 somethings. Then by extension you must mean Iggy is surrounded by a bunch of old men. While that is true that does not make them any better than the people working in the PMO.
Iggy has a moral compass? Well tell me how you know that? Are you related? Tell me the 125 reasons or so Harper has given Canadians not to trust him. I smell spin here.
Are you kidding me? Harper has a degree in Economics from the UAB. Iggy annouced himself that the economy was quote “not my thing”. Where do you get the fact that he is attractive and thoughtful? Have you ever actually met him? Your going by everything in the media and the ads, etc. Ignatieff has no moral compass seriously the man is seeming to be a PC if anything. His standpoint of Torture is defintely not liberal. Liberals are for social values and preserving moral values, not for torture at the expense of public safety. The man is clearly a progressive (Liberal) Conservative if you can’t see he’s trying to draw the attention of the former Mulorney PC’s.
“Well Canadians have come to know the media for what it is.”
Yet again, a Conservative kindly blankets *his* (or her, what’s a hollinm?) opinion on everyone in the country.
Just the facts m’am…just the facts. Take it or leave it. If politicians think they can talk about Canadians all the time I certainly have the right to do so as well.
Oh pleassssssse hollinm you don’t know your arse from your elbow, expose the real iggy for who he is?
And who and what is Harper? Certainly not the person he portrays himself to be to the public. He got us involved in a war that doesn’t concern us and is now costing us billions before it is through and for what? To impress the Americans who he really wants to be! We thought Mulroney was trying to sell us to the US, just what is it Harper is trying to do! It amazes me the ignornance and the arrogance of people, the Conservatives have got us in a war we shouldn’t be in, going to be paying for till way after our great grandchildren are have grandchildren and the all the while blaming the Liberals for everything, they took their eyes off the economy if they were ever really paying attention to it in the first place and look where we are now, smack dab in the middle of recession which they denied was happening till Harper almost lost his job. Now who is the smart one now? I say the canadian people need to know who the real Harper is before he has us buried in so much garbage we suffocate to death. Paul Martin was probably the best finance minister there ever was, we would have been out of debt by now had he had the support he should have had. What have the conservatives really done since they came to semi power?
Not a heck of a lot and likely won’t either!!
What war did Harper get us involved in? The war in Afghanistan was declared and started by the previous Liberal government. How’s that for ignorance… You liberals can’t even take credit for your own wars! Somehow the conservative opposition at the time must have been responsible.
And while I do agree with bringing the war to a close as fast as possible, there is still a war going on and a mission to complete. We took on a responsibility to NATO and to Afghanistan, I think it’s only right we live up to our responsibilities.
And as far as the recession goes, I’m sure you haven’t noticed it’s a global recession. When the economy of our major trading partners tank, it’s going to hit us as well. That’s not Harper’s fault, and it wouldn’t be the fault of the Liberals if they were in power either.
All that can be done is to lessen the blow as much as possible and recover strong. Seeing as the country still has an operational surplus, no banks have failed, there’s been no government bailouts and the economy is still (compared to the rest of the world) in good shape, I’d say Harper’s done the best he can with a crappy situation. Once the global markets start rebounding, we’re in a very good position to come out of it in good shape. That’s really all you can hope for in a scenario like this.
1. Harper wanted Canada to send troops to Iraq, and would have if he had been PM at that time. Thank God for Chretien, he refused, the only western country to do so, history has proved he was right.
2. The Liberals didn’t start the war in .Afghanistan, the US did, Canada was initially there with UN peacekeepers, as we have been in various other places around the world, they only escalated to a more military role under Harper. And while I support our troops, mourn & deplore the lost lives, I fear we are in an un-winable war.
3. When Harper forced another speedy election on to us, Going against his own legislation that said the govenment couldn’t call an election for their own political gain, in a selfish attempt for a majority, ‘HE’ apparently didn’t notice that Canada and the rest of the world was falling into recession, His exact quote, “This country will not go into a recession” our economy is fine. If he and Flaherty had not frittered away the large surplus he inherited from the Liberals and put us into a deficit position,in an attempt to get votes, there would have been more cash to fight the recession.. His latest quote is ‘the deficit will go as large as it has to., perhaps to disguise how big a deficit we already have.
BTW, the reason. our banks are OK is thanks to Martin, who, with Chretien, reined them in & refused to let then follow the US banking industry.
Take off your blinders lady. You may be OK, but a huge number of Canadians are out of work and struggling to support their families, with no help from the present government. who will force yet another election on us over EI in an attempt to hold on, as their credibility goes down the toilet. so back to the attack ads, but it won’t work this time, no one likes a bully.
Patricia Fallis…I am afraid it is you who doesn’t know “your arse” from you elbow. Let’s set the record straight.
-Chretien and the Liberal party committed Canada to the war in Afghanistan and Paul Martin put Canada in the killing fields of Kandahar. Harper continued what Canada was committed to under the Afghan Pact. It is easy to get into a war but very difficult to pull out as we can see. Canada’s international reputation would have been destroyed if we had unilaterally pulled out. The fact is Harper had the courage to say the combat mission will end in 2011.
-Once again you are dreaming in Liberal la la land. The recession was not caused by anything the Conservative government did. So change your talking points because you obviously don’t understand what is happening in the world. The U.S. caused the recession and if it had not taken place we would have been just fine. I guess you don’t like keeping more of your own money, seeing the military with more funding, seeing higher equalization payments, more funding for the provinces for education, health and social benefits etc. You are simply blowing smoke. Recent reports from Goldman Sachs and the IMP say that Canada, Australia and the U.S. will come out of the recession first. Most economics and Canadians believe that Harper is doing a good job with a very difficult economy.
-Harper warned in his 2007 year end interviews that 08 was going to be a more difficult year than the previous years but nobody and I repeat nobody anticipated the sub prime mortgage fiasco in the U.S. and how it would spread so quickly around the world causing the housing and financial markets to collapse. Dion ran around in the election saying there would be no deficit under his watch. So I guess he was stupid as well.
-”Buried us in so much garbage?….what in the hell are you talking about. You better give examples. Otherwise it is just rhetoric and really doesn’t mean anything.
-I am glad the Liberals got the deficit covered. However, I would remind you that the deficit was covered by cuts to federal programs, military spending and transfers to the provinces for education, healthcare and taking of the $54 billion EI surplus. The ability of the Chretien Liberals to cover the deficit was set by…wait for it….Brian Mulroney who introduced the GST and Free Trade. That set Canada on the recored to unprecedented prosperity and the Liberals got the benefit. By the way I would remind you that Chretien lied to the Canadian people when he said he would axe the tax (GST) and renegotiate free trade.
-Out of debt? Obviously you don’t know the debt Canada is holding right now. It is somewhere in the order of $600 billion. There is no way Martin would have repaid the debt by now. However, the deficit was covered and surpluses have been enjoyed by the country since 1998 because of the Liberals high tax policy.
-If you like I can go through the list of accomplishments of the Conservative government since coming to office. This while in a minority situation with the Libeals threatening an election every other day.
HAHA “Paul Martin was probably the best finance minister there ever was”. You’re serious? Hmm, But the sponser ship scandel makes him still makes him the best? Oh my, and frankly Harper is trying to get the word out to the stubborn and dumbfounded Obama Adminstration that this “economic crisis” is a GLOBAL issue gezzz not just a one nations issue. This issue will only be resolved when all the countries are work together. Our banking is certianly not Liberal. The way we run our banking system is actually seeming conservative if anything.
Mike, the economic crisis is definitely having a global effect, you’re right. However, the problems originated in the United States, our largest trading partner. The ponzi scheme imploded with Canadians caught in the middle. Harper, ever the fiscal conservative spent the cupboard bare and whittled away Canada’s rainy day fund in inefficient tax cuts. Mr. Harper presides over the largest cabinet in recent memory. He doesn’t believe in what he’s doing. It took a rare display of unity between every MP in Parliament to get Harper to recognize the problem and do something substantial about it. Everyone knows if people stop spending in a recession, things get worse.
The current banking regulations exist because of a Liberal government. Wasn’t it Mr. Harper who wanted to let the banks merge and ease securities regulation? Further, how does a banking system ’seem conservative’?
Well that’s just silly. How many Canadians voted for you to represent them, on the Maclean’s blogs or elsewhere? Every MP has at least some Canadians giving him/her the right to speak for them.
You are the silly, one and very ignorant ,I might add ! Your hate for Harper is just so personal that you can’t even see the facts and people like you are scary!!! i
it is not the man ppl hate but the things he is doing; he has no authority except from us; he is not following orders from us. we own this govt. the Fake-Cons are a minority of opinion in this country; maybe even in the world. true Progressive Conservatives have my respect. not these sell-outs.
Oh get off your high horse. Canada is a country of 33 million people. There are 308 MPs. Those MPs do not and I repeat do not speak for all their constituents. Constituents are not monolithic in what they think.
If you listen to all the politicians they are always saying Canadians think this that or the other thing. They have no idea what all Canadians think on a given subject at any point in time.
You must be real desperate if this is the only point you can take exception to.
Which only makes it harder to understand why you think you can speak for all Canadians, hollinm. I only bring it up because I’ve been noticing lately that a large number of Conservative posters are telling us what Canadians want/think. I’m just saying, state your opinion, it is worthy enough to stand on its own, isn’t it?
thank you Jenn.
Way to go hollinm!!!
Some of these Liberal supporters are so desperate to find a reason to hate Harper they will say anything that comes into their heads. The fact is Harper is doing a good job managing the country and it terrifies the hell out of them.
God forbid the recession comes to an end before the Libs can trigger an election.
Calling Harper names is not a very effective strategy. Canadians don’t listen to we political watchers. They make up their own minds. I know that from my adult children who hate politics but know they don’t want Ignatieff as PM. There think he is full of himself.
hollinm, you have hit the nail on the head. It is a sad state of affairs that Canadians are so isolated from the administration of their own country. The vast majority of us do not have time to watch debates in the House or even follow ITQ. However, completely withholding participation in the political process is abominable. How can we have responsible government if we as Canadians don’t participate?
We could debate endlessly as to why a majority of us do not participate in the governance of our country, but let’s focus on two trends: apathy amongst the electorate and an inaccessible political process. Granted, this trend has been developing for decades. In to fill the vacuum of participation comes our happy Conservative Party of Canada communications strategy. Question is, does this help or hinder the problem? If I’m already disillusioned with the public life of my country, will such advertisements outside of an election motivate me to become more involved or deepen my apathy? If the vast majority of Canadians cannot or do not access information about how their country is being run, will such advertisements improve or worsen this problem?
Just like the 2nd time around with ad hominem attacks and sweater-boy façade, the Harper Conservatives are following in the footsteps of the Harris Conservatives in Ontario. I predict the results will be similarly disappointing for Mr. Harper and his caucus of seals.
PS. 5th paragrah: “proroguation”?
Does ANYONE outside Ottawa care about this bs?
yes – all of us in British Columbia
i’m in BC, and no we don’t care. sue must live in the boring parts ;-)
I say we just keep letting the CON-gurgatators cluck amongst themselves. Some of their lies are funny. And it keeps them from bugging poor Doris for her pension check.
Let’s hope that the Liberal’s don’t respond to Harper’s cheap attack ads with more of the same. If I was donating to a political party, I wouldn’ t be too impressed to see my money going to funding these types of ads. I think I could find a better place to spend my money. I think the Liberals should take another look at investing in the green economy. Pick up this week’s Actualité and you will see that President Obama is about to make a large investment in the green economy – the economy of the future. The Americans will have a substantial head start on our country in this area and may emerge as world leaders. Unfortunately, I don’t see the conservative government showing much interest this area.
Let’s hope that the Liberal’s don’t respond to Harper’s cheap attack ads with more of the same.
Thank you!
U agree wholeheartedly, and it’s why I’m of two minds on this. On the one hand, I think that a heavier war-chest can only improve the Liberals’ chances, and the prospects of a centre-left government makes me squee with joy. On the other hand, I would hate to see more acts like this coming from the Liberal side. I don’t want the 24-hour 365 day election campaign that the United States seems to have. If they responded with an ad similar to the Youtube video that Ignatieff posted, (shorter, of course) then that’s fine.
But I don’t want to see more gutter politics.
I think the Liberals should take another look at investing in the green economy
Hell yeah! If it’s suddenly become okay to spend money that we don’t have and that is basically coming from myself, my children and grandchildren,why not spend it where it could do the most good?
Windsor, Brantford, Hamilton, London, Sarnia- all of the cities in Southern Ontario where a large chunk of hte population was employed by the manufacturing industry- could become the centre of a new technology. Create jobs in economically depressed Southwestern Ontario, boost the economy, save the planet. Sounds like a good idea to me.
Now if only my name rhymed with “Even Larper”
*Sigh*
I can’t type.
U=I
“I can’t type.”
Sophia G
I have the same ‘itis’ as you it appears. I read my comment before hitting ’submit comment’ and don’t see any mistakes. Once it is posted, I read it again and see my comment was in fact riddled with typos. Do you experience this?
I just read your’s and Don’s comment about government investing in green economy. I am working this morning on writing something about electric cars vs hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and it provides good example of why government should not really get involved. Obama and his admin seem to be focusing on developing electric cars, while not paying much attention to fuel cells, and this appears be a colossal mistake because hydrogen technology could be much more efficient and practical.
I would prefer government to offer massive reward/payment for first person to come up with solution to designated problems. For instance, the government could offer $50 million to the first person to develop engine that does not run on gas but performs just as well or light bulb that’s like current bulbs but uses 75% less electricity or whatever. There are lots of people out there who like to tinker and would probably figure something out if the right incentives were in place.
I hear what you’re saying about letting the government decide the technology for the future, myl, and I can’t argue with it, but if I were tinkering with something that could revolutionize our energy inputs or outputs, first of all I’d probably need money to get from tinkering to something that demonstrably works (i.e., a piece of paper with drawings on it probably wouldn’t qualify for any reward). I could spend my time finding a venture capitalist to get on board, but they aren’t exactly a dime a dozen and the more time I spend looking for one, the less I am tinkering on the revolutionary idea. So while a government reward at the end of it all is a nice thing, it doesn’t get me from here to there. Also, would this reward come with, say, the patent rights, or would I have to give those up to keep the reward? Hmmm, not even sure which way I’d want the answer to go right now, unless its some kind of hybrid sharing of the rights.
Scotland seems to have a lottery that uses the money raised to fund this sort of thing. Of course, you are left with the same bureaucratic hoops to jump through in order to qualify for a grant. And R&D tax credits, while better than not having R&D tax credits, seems to me to be incredibly (expensively) document heavy–and of course they don’t work at all for some guy in his garage or basement.
So, we have identified the need, we have decided (okay, you and me and Sophie and Don) it is worthy of taxpayer dollars, we just need to determine the best mechanism to deliver, minimizing waste as best as possible.
And of course I meant jwl, not myl. I guess I couldn’ believe I was agreeing with jwl on anything at all!
I have the same ‘itis’ as you it appears. I read my comment before hitting ’submit comment’ and don’t see any mistakes. Once it is posted, I read it again and see my comment was in fact riddled with typos. Do you experience this?
I have dial-up, so I can see my comment for a minute or so after hitting ’submit’, and that’s exactlywhat happens- I read it over before I hit ’submit’, and in the time between submission and its appearance on the site, I realize that there are six or seven typos.
I think that the government needs to get involved, because Lord only knows that the private sector has shown little interest in really changing anything. I agree with your comments about incentives, but I do feel that there are other ways that the government could get involved. One of the biggest stumbling blocks in the way of industry changing over to greener ways is the initial cost. Perhaps if the government ‘kick-started’ the process through a program like you suggest and heavy subsidies for changing to greener technology, the private sector could then run with it.
The problem with you, jwl, is that you’re an idiot. Hydrogen isn’t “more efficient and practical” because it’s not a source of energy, it’s just a means of transporting energy, at least until you discover those hydrogen mines in your backyard that are going to make you rich.
Your assumption that you know better than teams of dedicated and highly educated professionals who have dedicated their careers to thinking about the energy problem would be laughable enough even if you were halfway informed, but becomes rather more pathetic considering you’re completely ignorant of the issues at hand.
So actually your post is a good example of why nobody should listen to people like you, because not only have you not taken the time to familliarize yourself with the issue, even in the broadest terms, but you assume that your pithy and wildly incorrect reading of the situation is the only one that makes sense.
Fell better after that rant about nothing in particular?
I will make sure to tell the folks at Honda that the FCX they have been testing in real world conditions in California for over a year won’t work and they should listen to nd who thinks the auto czar is some kind of expert in ‘energy’ but is actually just a financier and bagman for Dems who’s making automakers build cars that are not practical and few want.
“I think the Liberals should take another look at investing in the green economy”
*Sigh*
Wow, how about let’s not spend money? Let’s save until the recession is up. It’s not the time to spend on any alternatives until we have a more safe economy, and how about we just contiune finding ways to re-train and get citizens their jobs back. hmmm? Now’s not the time to “SPEND” but of course the liberals will tell you that, what do they know about the economy? Liberals stand for more government spending, at least in their idealogy.
Of course they are attack ads. Not…they are truth ads reflecting what the Count has said in his many years of verbal diarrhea.
Iggy has worked 34 year of his adult life in other countries. I never heard of him before he came back to Canada. That’s how much of a profile he had with ordinary Canadians. So why did he come back?
He came back, not for any love of country, but because the back room boys of the Liberal party promised him the leadership and potentially the job of PM. Nothing more, nothing less.
The media, while repeating every controversial statement made by Harper when he was in the private sector, refuse to put any pressure on the Count to explain himself more precisely. Why did he support the war in Iraq and virtually any position taken by the Republican party in the States? What is his real position on torture? What would he do differently than Harper if he were PM during this recession (careful that’s what tripped up Mr. Dion)? What is his real position on the oil sands? What is his position on taxation? In fact he has changed his position on most things that he has publicly talked about. To date none of the media has really forced him to answer some tough questions. All we get from them is puff pieces on how he is a descendant of royalty, how intellectual he is blah, blah, blah. I could give a rat’s ass about any of this stuff. Help me to understand where he would lead the country if he is elected.
Obviously you are not watching the news. Canada has agreed with the new emission standards for the auto industry announced by the messiah in the States. The States will probably announce a cap and trade system and Prentice agreed that a North American cap and trade system is possible.
Unfortunately for the Liberals the environment will not be an issue that they can hammer the Conservatives in the coming months.
Harper was right. For Canada to unilaterally introduce environmental standards that would make Canada uncompetitive in the U.S. would have been a disaster for the Canadian economy. Can you imagine a carbon tax taking place in this environment and the impact it would have had on the living standard of the middle class and businesses?
Show me the technologies that are available to replace oil today. I mean today. Not 5 years down the road. Thought so.
“…how intellectual he is blah, blah, blah. I could give a rat’s ass about any of this stuff. ”
Well said. You don’t need to be smart to run a country, such an overrated skill.
“Show me the technologies that are available to replace oil today. I mean today. Not 5 years down the road. Thought so.”
I’m curious to your arbitrary choice of 5 years. If there was a form of energy that we able to use to replace oil in 5 years, I would say lets invest in that technology now, become world leaders in it, and prosper. But to go back to your point, of course it is impossible to name the technology that will replace oil, we dont know it (except perhaps if I were to consult my Ouija board). That is why we research these things. And sure, government directed research is not the most efficient thing, but in the absence of private enterprise looking for the solution, there is no practical alternative.
Ah…just like a Liberal to take a point out of context and spin it for all it is worth.
The point being telling people that somebody is intellectual does not make them intellectual. It needs to be supported by facts. The media and Liberal syncophants say he is intellectual. Saying it doesn’t make it so.
On the environment. I picked 5 years arbitrarily because to argue that we should stop our dependence on oil today doesn’t make sense. Well, if you want to do that how? There is no switch that can be turned on to allow us to stop using fossil fuels today. The technology simply isn’t there. Adding taxes i.e. carbon tax only hurts the ordinary people because businesses would simply pass the cost on to consumers with no assurance that the money will be used to develop new technologies. Look at Dion’s carbon tax. Billions put aside to fight child poverty. Great but how does that help develop new technologies for environmental sustainability.
“The point being telling people that somebody is intellectual does not make them intellectual. It needs to be supported by facts.”
FACT: He has a PHD (and other honorary doctorates)
FACT: He taught at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard
I dont know what more facts you would like, I’m not aware of any organization that certifies the term ‘intellectual’ so that you can have the designation by your name. But I would imagine, any rational being would say that he is one.
No one (and by that I am excluding irrational people) are arguing about stopping oil dependence today. They are saying it should happen in the future. And as you so shrewdly observed there is no switch. Therefore, research in technology must take place prior to that.
And I also would hate to break it to you, but a cap and trade policy (and im speaking of a meaningful one) could also increase costs on to the consumer because businesses have to buy the permits to pollute the carbon emissions. The difference in the two essentially is that one has the term “tax.”
“Great but how does that help develop new technologies for environmental sustainability.”
Well that is the beauty of either a carbon tax or cap and trade. We get to harness the power of the free market! Businesses have less of an incentive to pollute, which then means that they will actively look for ways to reduce costs and create new technologies for environmental sustainability.
are you certain that the Fake-Cons are funding these ads? why is the deficit (debt on top of debt) getting larger i wonder?
Let me tell you, I’ve been inspired the by the Ignatieff Liberals, and likewise by the Tory ads. I decided to help out by fundraising myself, and today alone I’ve enrolled two Victory Fund members and raised a further $420.00 in donations for the Libs.
Thanks again, Harper! You’re helping to make the strongest Liberal Party ever.
do you think Iggy would be here when his heart is in the US.if he had got the nod for the US. senate,his ego tells him he is above the rest of us &he should be a leader somewhere,it do not matter where.
seriously,
coming from the greatest US butt-lickers of all time, that’s a crock! who had a recent campaign to woo the US on their behalf using our Canadian money to pay two foreigners to do that promotion?
all Canadians this side of history, except the FN ppls, are immigrants, and therefore, by Fake-Con logic, *not Canadian.
whatever.
the Fake-Cons pwn inferiority complex
I agree strongly that the Conservative attack ads are garbage and in the end will backfire on them and propel the Liberals back into power. I can’t wait for that day.
How can Harper justify spending time and money on this slander when Canadians are losing their jobs and homes by the thousands. But, that is conservatism for you.
Harper has done nothing useful since he was elected and has shown that he is interested in one thing only – power.
- He promised a more open and transparent government but he has practiced secrecy in the exteme. There is far less information available now than ever before.
- Our MPs are strictly controlled and not allowed to speak their minds. Only Harper’s opinions are of any value.
- The first environment policy that the Harper government introduced made Canada a laughing stock around the world and was quickly withdrawn.
- Harper tried to deny there was a financial crisis in the first place and, even now, refuses to provide any meaningful assistance. The money that was approved is only trickling out.
- Harper introduced a do nothing budget that he was forced to change. Included in that was the vindictive proposal to eliminate funding for political parties. Eliminate the opposition rather than dealing with it.
- He refuses to improve the EI system, in terms of easier access and the amounts paid out. This one I know about first hand and the amount you recieve and the length of time you recieve it are both pathetic.
So, heres hoping that the Liberals will soon be back in power so that we can be rid of the fools we have running the government now.
how can you call this attack ads when all that was said is true,even Iggy will agree with them.
They are attack ads because they were designed to attack Iggy. So I, and the rest of the world, can call them attack ads pretty easily.
If I can be so bold as to assist you in your talking points, may I suggest “attack ads which display elements of truthiness.” You can then say things like “I know he is American because I feel it in my gut.”
K, let’s put it this way Mr. Liberal lover, “The Conservatives announced an expansion of employment insurance benefits”. “The federal government now plans to pour an extra $500 million into the program to re-train long-tenured workers who’ve lost their job.” There is your E.I. Now as for your job’s it’s building don’t worry how about you take a look at this article from april http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Government%20track%20post%20budget%20surplus/1532796/story.html
i think we should simply stop sending good money after bad. let’s see them govern without our help.
I would like to be a liberal because I’d be able to redefine reality to my own specifications. I could turn failure into success, murder into choice, lies into ‘misstatements’, and theft into investment. I would automatically be considered wise, instead of opinionated. Best of all, I could make up the rules as I go along, change them in midstream and then demonize anyone who doesn’t agree with me.
you think it is easy to be unintentionally ironic?
Wait. If you want to do all that shouldn’t you be a Conservative instead? Then you could declare it a “good time to buy” during a stock market crash affecting billions. Insist that you’re a “good and honest” guy while having reneged on massive campaign promises. Take hundreds of thousands of dollars of bribe money and insist that the real bad guy is “Slim Shady”. Oh and then when you get bored of your job you can appoint an obvious scapegoat so you can distance yourself from the damage you did.
Yup, sounds like you want to be a Conservative alright…but then you’d say that you want to be a Liberal even if you did want to be a Conservative. It’s the Conservative way.
I’d like to be a liberal because then I’d be rewarded for all my shortcomings and nothing would ever be my fault. I’d be an important cog in the wheel of social justice, and a cherished warrior in the current fight for equality.
In return, I’ll be accepted, popular, and invited to the best parties. I’ll be eligible for the right to housing, health care, a living wage (even if I don’t work) and happiness. And as long as I remain a liberal, no-one is allowed to insult me. How cool is that?
Best of all, I’ll be able to atone for my sins by merely paying Algore for a few carbon credits. Then, I would live happily ever after. Isn’t that worth sacrificing such ethereal and frivolous notions like freedom, individualism and principles?
please Nathan L; there are real Progressive Conservatives out there. those are the ones i respect. the Fake-Cons are just that: fake.
Don’t get me wrong here. I’m not all too hot on Iggy pop. He worries me. Not because he lived in the States and taught at Harvard or called Britain his home once. After all, if I lived there for even a week I’d be calling it home during that time too. What worries me is that he’s been tainted by American politics. It’s hard to be a Harvard professor and not be tainted by them.
I am heartened by his response to the latest volley of public mud slinging and to the fact that he quickly learned that we are most assuredly not Americans and don’t participate or allow the same things in our politics. I.E. His comments on Ukrainians.
But let’s be honest. Stephen Harper is as low as Mulroney. And neither of them is Joe Clark or Preston Manning. Those two I actually like. Neither was given much of a chance by their own parties, and both had extreme trouble navigating the waters as a result. But both were fine, excellent Conservatives. Embodying what Conservatism is all about. Harper doesn’t even come close. He’s not a Conservative he’s a Republican who envisions Canada rising like Rome. And let’s face it, we all know why that was a bad idea without requiring to learn it in high school.
The ‘Iggy’s an American who’s here for vacation’ advertisements have a very obvious point. Don’t pay attention to me, don’t pay attention to my ties (and parties ties) to Mulroney, instead look at how horrible Iggy is. It’s the Fox News at it’s best. The one who screams loudest is not only right, but the one everyone listens to most.
“rising like Rome”. wow. boy is PMStephen gonna be disappointed when he discovers that Rome FELL. of course, history is like 5 min ago for this PMdude.
25 million? Who in their right mind pulled this unreachable number? Ken Lewenza must be on their fundraising board!
Author: Stephen
Comment:
“The point being telling people that somebody is intellectual does not make them intellectual. It needs to be supported by facts.”
FACT: He has a PHD (and other honorary doctorates)
FACT: He taught at Cambridge, Oxford, and Harvard
Point well taken but I would also point out that because somebody works in academia and teaches etc. does not necessarily make him the smartest guy in the room. There is an old saying you can be book smart but have no street sense. There is nothing that I am aware of that convinces me Iggy has the street smarts.
You are right a cap and trade system would increase costs to the consumer. However, if the business who is being forced to change his manufacturing process because of increased costs may not make the necessary changes if he is able to pass those costs unto the consumer. A cap and trade system can turn into a boondoggle if governments allow exemptions to certain industries as has been done in Europe.
My previous point was that the carbon tax proposed by Dion/Liberals was simply a tax on everything with billions being allocated for non environmental purposes. How is that a serious environmental policy?
Fair enough, street smarts is not an easy thing to prove. And there is nothing that I can think of offhand that prove or disprove that Iggy is street smart.
Regarding the environment, we seemed to get a little off topic about Mr Wells’s original post, but you did ask the question, so I will give the best answer I can.
Personally, I agree with you to a certain extent, at least about how all the other social engineering the green shift proposed doesnt do anything about saving the environment. I would have much preferred a 100% switch between a carbon tax and income tax. They are both “taxes on everything.” Only one is a tax on pollution and the other is a tax on productivity. But regardless, of how the money is spent the environmental sustainability part is designed in the tax collection, not in the government expenditure.
The government could choose to spend the money on canadian flags, a la Sheila Copps, it would still have a positive effect on the environment. (Given that the emissions produced by the production of the canadian flags was less than the emissions saved by the carbon tax)
Our financial model is not sustainable. Let me explian. Imagine there is no money in circulation so the bank issues the very first money in the world (lets say the amount is $100) and that’s all that exists on earth. Now the bank wants that full amount back in one year plus 10 percent interest so the bank wants back $110. See the dilema? There is only $100 in circulation but to complete this transaction and pay the bank back is impossible unless another $10 dollars is created to pay off the interest. So they keep printing more and more money. It could even be said all credit is debt. There is in fact a shortage of (REAL MONEY) in circulation. It’s no wonder the world is in so much trouble. The TD bank is predicting a big jump in Bankruptcies this year. There were 10,578 personal bankruptcies filed during March of this year, up a staggering 57% from 6,736 in March 2008. Banks run this country and our elected members in office are just front men for the bankers. The USELESS regulations FLAHERTY passed to curb credit card interest rates are a classic example of how politicians WHIMP OUT and COWER IN FEAR when having to face greedy financial institutions.
Fantasy talk.
I only want that $100 because at the end of the year, I’ll make $111 or more and profit after the $10 interest.
The world is far more complicated than what you are making it out to be and in order to get to where you want to be we need to cede pretty much all the advances made since the stone age.
streetsmarts (brawn); over booksmarts (brain). who says Mr. Ignatieff has no streetsmarts? (isn’t he getting everyone to talk about him?) i always find it telling when ppl ridicule someone with learning; sometimes it suggests envy. i think it big time suggests envy in the case of the Fake-Cons.
are you suggesting that cunning/cruelty is smart? that viciousness is smart? because it gets results? then PMStephen’s your man. and “J-s-s” or Ghandi or Buddha or Lao Tzu is not (for those of you that have spiritual belief).
we tell kids to “love your neighbour as yourself”; not to bully each other; being the cheerleaders, egging the bully on, makes you just as culpable as the bully. it is little wonder why kids are so screwed up these days. they are following our lead through the ppl we choose.
BCer in Toronto admitted:
“Every $ that the RCMP and independent auditors identified as having ended-up in Liberal coffers was repaid to the taxpayers in full years ago. But you just keep making crap up “James”.
Well, two points.
First Point: Thank you for finally admitting that the Liberal Party was caught STEALING from the taxpayers. It’s not many Liberal supporters who admit they are still voting for a bunch of thieves. Most Liberal supporters who know they are voting for criminals claim ignorance so they will not be judged accordingly.
Second Point:
The key word is “Identified” …meaning, this is the money they had an actual paper trail to follow showing who received the STOLEN funds. The $40,000,000 is the amount for which the auditors and RCMP could not trace.
In case you still have trouble….I’ll give you a cliff notes version.
Imagine a group of crooks….let’s call them “The Laurier Gang” started robbing banks. Over the course of two years, they managed to steal $40,565,000 from various banks. The “Auto-Worker Bank” was bilked of $10,000,000, the “Bank of Health Care and Education” was robbed of $20,000,000….the “Bank of Minimum Wage worker” was taken for $10,565,000, until one day a reporter took down a license plate number and the getaway car was traced to “24 Sussex Drive”
Well, the “Laurier Gang” had a lot of friends, some in the Justice System….so they were not too concerned. Instead, the head of the “Laurier Gang” bought a first class ticket for the getaway driver to Denmark. The rest of the gang was asked for a list of names that could be scapegoated, or otherwise blamed.
The leader of the “Laurier Gang” knew the jig was up, but realized he could reduce the impact on he and his gang by sacrificing a couple of lower-end nobodies. They blamed a dude named Guite, as well as a few advertising executives. The plan worked perfectly. The guys who actually robbed the banks….no jail time, no punishment…..just a few dark clouds that would prevent them from robbing any more banks for the next few years.
To show remorse, the “Laurier Gang” decided to give back a bit of the cash. This was not from the goodness of their hearts however….it was because a few of the lower eschelon crooks went on a bit of a binge….and left a paper trail. About $565,000 was paid back.
The Laurier Gang said it was all a big misunderstanding….they were outraged about the abuse of the banks, and they would pay back the stolen money and punish those responsible.
Of course….we all know that they paid back a pittance and the Laurier Gang called it even. Now the Laurier Gang has a new Gang Leader. A Gang Leader who could not possibly be associated with the robberies and theft…..but who knows quite well what went on.
Right now, the Laurier Gang is simply bidding its time until the Gang is back in a position of power, and they can start looking for new banks…and getaway drivers. The people have forgotten……and the fans of the Laurier Gang couldn’t be happier.
It’s just a matter of time……and then the Banks will be at risk again.
“First Point: Thank you for finally admitting that the Liberal Party was caught STEALING from the taxpayers.”
Not quite correct James.
Gomery never found that the LPC stole money; true, it received stolen money but it never “stole” any monies. And do not forget that Benoit Corbeil (director of the Liberals’ Quebec wing who was behind this behaviour) was sued by the LPC for fraud as well.
But given the rest of your inarticulate post, I’m afraid that this distinction is probably too subtle for you to understand.
And Chuck Guité was originally hired to the public service by Mulroney’s Conservative government.
truly? hmm. so is Oliphant; although i think Oliphant is a more honourable type of character put in an untenable position.
Nordic Norm wrote:
“First Point: Thank you for finally admitting that the Liberal Party was caught STEALING from the taxpayers.”
Not quite correct James.
Gomery never found that the LPC stole money; true, it received stolen money but it never “stole” any monies.”
Yeah…keep telling yourself that. The money just magically appeared in brown envelopes and was passed to Liberals in Italian restaurants. And Bill Clinton “DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN”……..and he didn’t inhale.
Face it Norm…..you know the Liberal party is a nest of thieves……..but they’re your nest of thieves, so turning a blind eye is forgiveable.
Norm Goes on:
” And do not forget that Benoit Corbeil (director of the Liberals’ Quebec wing who was behind this behaviour) was sued by the LPC for fraud as well.”
If you actually believe the Liberal Party’s most senior members were not aware of the pilfering of public monies……then I have a bridge to sell you. Denis Coderre would probably be willing to sell you one…just tell him what colour.
Secondly, if you honestly think the Liberals wanted to “get to the bottom” of the Sponsorship Scandal, you would believe anything. Heck, you probably think Ruby Dhalla would make one hell of a boss if you were her nanny.
More Norm:
“But given the rest of your inarticulate post, I’m afraid that this distinction is probably too subtle for you to understand.”
If you find my post inarticulate, then I would submit you are illiterate…..of just a wee bit dim. Given you still vote Liberal, however, I am not surprised you are unaware of it.
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Chris S. Wrote:
“And Chuck Guité was originally hired to the public service by Mulroney’s Conservative government”
That’s right Chris. MULRONEY Government, as in Progressive Conservatives.
Not Harper, or the new Conservative Party. The Liberals did their best to paint the New Conservatives as not being at all similar to the Progressive Conservatives.
Until of course, people realized that the stink of Corruption that eminates from the Liberal Party is endemic, and not symptomatic. Instead of proclaiming complete innocence, the Liberals found it easier to taint all politicians as corrupt….the, “We’re thieves, but so are the other guys’” defence.
Only trouble is, Harper is NOT corrupt. Harper does NOT steal…….and Canadians know it. In fact, I’d say most people on these boards who vote Liberal, would rather lose their wallet in a traditionally Conservative Riding as opposed to a Liberal one. You may not agree with Conservative policy……but you do know they won’t steal from you. You certainly can’t say that about Liberals. They of the perpetual “hand in cookie jar” temperament.
JOKE:
Question: Why is Michael Ignatieff still in Canada?
Answer: Because Ruby Dhalla won’t give him back his passport.
Chris S. Wrote:
“And Chuck Guité was originally hired to the public service by Mulroney’s Conservative government”
JamesHalifax Wrote:
“That’s right Chris. MULRONEY Government, as in Progressive Conservatives.”
That’s right James. Doesn’t that make it difficult to call him a Liberal bag man?
Chris S. Wrote:
“Chris S. Wrote:
“And Chuck Guité was originally hired to the public service by Mulroney’s Conservative government”
JamesHalifax Wrote:
“That’s right Chris. MULRONEY Government, as in Progressive Conservatives.”
That’s right James. Doesn’t that make it difficult to call him a Liberal bag man?
Chris, if you read it again you will see I never said anything about Guite being the “Bagman”…..he was the scapegoat. Guilty…sure he was, but he was no more guilty than the other Liberals who allowed this to happen. As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party. Guite was a “hanger-on” from Mulroney, and the Liberals kept him on because “You won’t rat on them…..you won’t rat on us”
Nice try though Chris….but that tactic has been tried before.
Guite and some ad execs were found guilty….while the masterminds in the Liberal Party (Various Liberal MP’s, mostly from Quebec) who were actually responsible for creating the scheme and carrying it out….walked.
Some of the very same MP’s who know where this stolen money is, or who personally benefitted from it….are most likely currently sitting in Parliament as Liberal MP’s. Do you think they won’t revert to form….given the chance again?
Liberals steal. You vote Liberal……..live with it.
JamesHalifax wrote:
“As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party.”
I never said he did, but thank you for pointing this out more than once.
“As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party. Guite was a “hanger-on” from Mulroney, and the Liberals kept him on”
I think your understanding of the HR practices of the public service is faulty.
“while the masterminds in the Liberal Party (Various Liberal MP’s, mostly from Quebec) who were actually responsible for creating the scheme and carrying it out”
Who exactly are these masterminds? Where is the evidence and why hasn’t it been forwarded to the RCMP?
“are most likely currently sitting in Parliament as Liberal MP’s.”
This sort of specious speculation is a sorry distraction from the real issues of the day. We need to do better.
“That’s right Chris. MULRONEY Government, as in Progressive Conservatives.”
“As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party.”
I need to contact the Liberal Party! Apparently, all they need to do is have a name change, and then they will be absolved of any wrong doing from the past. I propose either the “New Liberal Party” or “Liberal Classic”
“Liberals steal. You vote Liberal……..live with it.”
Or maybe JamesHalifax’s generalizations are too ridiculous.
The Conservatives are not free from scandal either, but I have better sense than to go around and say “all conservatives are corrupt.” Because they aren’t, as the Liberals aren’t either. And only partisan hacks, on either side (some Liberals are guilty of it too), would make the crazy generalizations that James has.
unfortunately the coalition of Fake-Con ideologues, adherents, and wannabes have taken things to a new low level under the direction of PMStephen and the Progressive-Conservative-sell-out/Conservative “architects” of their party; and they pwn this new low. they are tres unique. i guess this is what they mean by being “Canadian”. *NOT.
Chris S. Wrote:
““As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party.”
I never said he did, but thank you for pointing this out more than once.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Well, Chris, given that you are a Liberal supporter, and thereby a slow learner, I thought repetition would be beneficial.
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“As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party. Guite was a “hanger-on” from Mulroney, and the Liberals kept him on”
I think your understanding of the HR practices of the public service is faulty.”
——————————————————————————————————————————————-
You’re right Chris……if I were a new manager intent on stealing from the business, I would prefer to keep the employee who WOULD NOT TELL THE COPS about the illegal activites, as opposed to the employee who did his duty and alerted the authorities. My bad.
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“while the masterminds in the Liberal Party (Various Liberal MP’s, mostly from Quebec) who were actually responsible for creating the scheme and carrying it out”
Who exactly are these masterminds? Where is the evidence and why hasn’t it been forwarded to the RCMP?”
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that’s the whole point Chris. We don’t know WHO they are, but we know WHAT PARTY THEY BELONG TO….and they’re not talking.
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“are most likely currently sitting in Parliament as Liberal MP’s.”
This sort of specious speculation is a sorry distraction from the real issues of the day. We need to do better.
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I don’t know Chris…..I think a Party responsible for the theft of Tens of Millions of dollars is a REAL ISSUE. Don’t you? Particularly when that same party is the only realistic option to the current Government. The BLOC will never form Government, and neither will the NDP. As for doing better…..we have it already. Harper. He’s head and shoulders above the Liberal Party…..and he’s not a thief. That’s good enough for me.
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STephen wrote:
“That’s right Chris. MULRONEY Government, as in Progressive Conservatives.”
“As for Guite….he had nothing to do with Harper or the New Conservative Party.”
I need to contact the Liberal Party! Apparently, all they need to do is have a name change, and then they will be absolved of any wrong doing from the past. I propose either the “New Liberal Party” or “Liberal Classic”
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Nice try Stephen, however, the Liberal party could change its name………what it needs to change is its nature. Clifford Olson could change his name to Terry Fox….and he would still be a murderous bastard. The Liberals could change their name to “Canadian Values”….and they would still be hopelessly corrupt and unprincipled.
The new Conservative Party is composed mainly of fresh blood from the West, and those PC’s who did not like the direction of the Party under Brian Mulroney. It was far more than a name change, it was a cultural shift.
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“Liberals steal. You vote Liberal……..live with it.”
Or maybe JamesHalifax’s generalizations are too ridiculous. ”
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Or maybe James has taken the time to read a newspaper or two stating the LIberals “missappropriated” funds. (missappropriated is another word for Steal Stephen) Or perhaps I followed the Gomery Inquiry, a judicial inquiry that basically backs my main contention.
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The Conservatives are not free from scandal either, but I have better sense than to go around and say “all conservatives are corrupt.” Because they aren’t, as the Liberals aren’t either.
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The current “scandals” surrounding the Conservatives under Harper are lame compared to the Liberals. Conservative scandals involve biker-chicks, election financing strategy common to all parties, and ministers who believe in God. Liberal scandals on the other hand…..have a common theme. Personal enrichment on the backs of taxpayers, usually involving large sums of Tax payers dollars paid out to Liberals and their supporters for little or no work. Sorry Stephen….give me Julie Colliards breasts over Jean Chretiens Shawinigate, or the Sponsorship scandal any day.
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And only partisan hacks, on either side (some Liberals are guilty of it too), would make the crazy generalizations that James has.
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there are no blanket Generalizations here Stephen….everything I wrote is true. When I say Liberals, I’m writing about Big – L Liberals, not the citizens who vote Liberal and then forget about politics until the next election. Face it, as Andrew Coyne wrote, the Liberal Party is basically the political face of Power Corp in Quebec. And like all business entities…..they run on profit and gain. Public interest be damned.
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One good point about Iggy…….he’s the only Liberal Leader (who has a chance to be PM) in generations who has not been a President of that Company. (Though Bob Rae’s main backer and financier is his brother……who happens to work……can you guess where?
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[]“slow learner” trying to add insult to injury; typical from the “How to Disrupt Parliament (undermine Canadian Democracy) and Insult People” Fake-Con playbook.
[]“as opposed to the employee who did his duty and alerted the authorities. My bad.” yup; you’re bad, you’re bad, you know it. Schreiber is also a whistle-blower.
[]the “masterminds” of the Fake-Conservative party include Mulroney, Harris, the Cadman life insurance offerers, etc.
[]“Tens of Millions of dollars is a REAL ISSUE.”….
what could be worse than losing ~$14B/annually of your own money? $100million is peanuts in comparison.
[]Gomery had to apologize. Toews admitted to criminal behaviour that seems to have been repeated Canada-wide in “in and out”.
[]“there are no blanket Generalizations here Stephen….When I say Liberals, I’m writing about Big – L Liberals, not the citizens who vote Liberal and then forget about politics until the next election.” no, no blanket statements at all about “citizens who vote Liberal and then forget about politics”
and on and on…
methinks the Filler-cons (blanket statement intentional) have very little ground left to stand on since they’ve been slinging so much of that rich mud they have.
Harper has told interviewers he still intends to cut public funding of political parties if he wins re-election.
i think it’s nasty (and anti-democratic) for any policy maker to undercut his colleauges in such a low manner; but i have come to expect this from these moral dwarves; and i understand why they need to do so–but i don’t accept this gutter tactic. i’m wondering: what would “J-s-s” do? i’m also wondering about the “bearing false witness” thing too concerning these ads. since G-d is no respecter of persons how do these “G-d’s-law-breaking” ppl expect to avoid consequence? or do they think they can continue to drive that big dodge?
i’m also curious about comments made here that the Libs stole something when in fact they were given stolen monies (not the same thing, but the equivocation is telling of the character of those who undertake to make it); and yet presently under a different ideology which purports to be conservative in nature we have none of our own money left to fend for ourselves financially as a country. in 3.5 yrs poof! it’s gone. interesting.
the Bush govt knew in 2008 (CNN finally reported/admitted *that a couple months ago) the US was in a recession; and this Fake-Conservative govt was close friends with the Bush administration. why were Canadians left up the creek without a paddle? indifference (Dion’s panicking, he’s crazy; everything’s fine; go and invest in the stock market)? opportunity (“synchronized” global recession)? incompetence? (trained aint the same thing as an actual track-record). i’m glad we had Paul Martin much as i disliked him; he never let this country down the way the Fake-Conservatives have.
Actually, I had a good giggle at that line, because I had just finished reading an excellent story involving Rome and corruption (thanks Jack!) among other things.
I love Joe Clark. What is wrong with socially progressive, fiscally conservative again? Other than, of course, that idealogy being hijacked by Mulroney and his ilk. I have hopes for Ignatieff in this regard.
Now that the Liberals have decided to run counter Ads against Harper I hve made a good sized donation to help them out. There is plenty of amo to show the real Harper and it’s not going to be pretty.
Leenie J…..
If your life is as chaotic and distorted as your writing…….I would say you are on some type of medication, or should be. Calm down…..you are embarassing yourself. Couple of points though.
Point 1 – Shcreiber may indeed be a whistle blower…..but he has nothing to do with Harper of the New Conservative Party.
Point 2 – Cadman’s wife has stated clearly that Harper had nothing to do with any offer made to her husband. Secondly, if any offer to help with election expenses were made, you can be sure it would be from Conservative donors and not stolen from the taxpayers, ala – Liberal style.
Point 3 – What 14 Billion are you talking about? (And would this be a policy decision that resulted in a 14 Billion dollar loss….or would it be money STOLEN by elected officials ala – Sponsorship? (If you can’t see the difference…I’m surprised you don’t vote NDP)
Point 4 – If you don’t like the “In – Out” method of paying for riding association advertisements, then I would recommend you call Liberal Headquarters and demand they stop doing it.
Point 5 – I would love to see the Public support of Political parties brought to an end. If you support a party, you should shell out from your own pocket. Don’t take it from me.
Point 6 – Don’t use the “God” argument on me….I’m an atheist. I still know right from wrong, however, and unless you were raised differently, you too would know that the Liberal Party was wrong when it stole money from the taxpayers.
Point 7 – The Liberals knew what they were doing was illegal, and they would be doing it today if they hadn’t been caught and lost power. Passing envelopes of Cash seems to offend you when Mulroney did it, yet seem perfectly OK when Liberals do it. Curious.
Point 8 – I’m a former Liberal supporter (Before I knew how corrupt Chretien and his party are) who couldn’t / Can’t stand Brian Mulroney.
Point 9 – As far as Paul Martin is concerned…..he did indeed let the country down. In many ways.
He fired all Canadian employees from “Canada Steamship Lines” and hired philipino’s instead, because Liberals know who cheap Philipino Labour is. (No word on if he kept their passports)
He used the EI fund to carry out his agenda, thereby ensuring we would end up in the EI mess we have today. Imagine that Leenie J……how far would that 46 Billion go today now that it’s needed?
Martin took credit for eliminating the deficit, when in fact what he did was steal the policies of the then REFORM Party. Martin did one better though……he sloughed off a greater portion of health care and education to the provinces, balancing the country’s books on the backs of the Provnices, and then he took credit for getting rid of the deficit. Nice trick.
By the way….most of the policies used to get rid of the deficit had no origin in the Liberal party. Here’s how the deficit was slain.
Mulroney – Free trade and GST (main reason we got rid of deficit)
Reform party Policies – Used by Martin to fix Canada’s books. The same policies by the way….that were writting by a young REFORM volunteer in his twenties. His name by the waywas HARPER.
Keep trying Loonie J…..but bear in mind some people actually pay attention to what is going on, and won’t automatically believe the crap you spew, simply because you want them to believe it.
The Liberal PARTY IS CORRUPT….and this has been proven time and again. They won’t change, as corruption is their nature and their reason for wanting power. Personal Gain….that’s all Liberals understand.
What I don't get is…how the hell is being cosmopolitan a bad thing?
If you're talking about Cocktails……Cosmopolitans are a good thing (in moderation)
If however, you are talking about someone looking for a label for himself to excuse his absence from the country of his birth……..it would justify more digging.