Categories: Capital Read, Inside the Queensway

Why, them's seriously close to fightin' words, them are.

by kadyomalley on Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:38am - 133 Comments

iggy Another name to add to the “don’t mess with” list, right after Doug Finley:

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff did not mince words in issuing a warning to Stephen Harper on Saturday night.Ignatieff told the Newfoundland and Labrador Liberal convention in Gander the prime minister must learn: “If you mess with me, I will mess with you until I’m done.” (CP via NNW)

So, what does that actually mean? ITQ has no idea. I mean, yes, of course she’s been following the usual pre-summer break parliamentary sabre-rattling — current pretext du jour: employment insurance reform — and it’s true that there are at least a half dozen or so supply votes that have to be held before the end of the session, any one of which could, in theory, trigger an election. But so far, we haven’t seen the usual followup stories about how very, very serious each and every party is about going to the polls this summer, even if it means spending Canada Day on the hustings.

Have any senior anonymous sources let the word leak out that they’ve rented a plane, for instance? Have any parties put in a rush order for lawn signs? Laid down a three week deadline for candidate nominations? Taken the national media on yet another sightseeing trip to show off the Rube Goldbergian war machine currently operating on powersave mode in the bowels of their sprawling East End compound? (O, Little Shop, I promise that next time, I’ll show up for those 6am briefings, liveblogging berry in hand. ) No, no, no and no.

We do, however, have Colleague Wells’ exclusive report on the Liberals’ “extraordinarily ambitious plan to nearly quintuple the party’s revenues from private donations”, which has apparently been bumped up from a leisurely fall rollout to a June 1st start date, which seems to be a direct response to the “Just Visiting” ad onslaught (adslaught?) currently filling the airwaves courtesy of the Conservative Party. Even if that’s the case, though, it’s hard to see how that backs the theory that the Liberals are ready to pull the plug on the government within the next month, as that would still leave just 23 days before the Commons closes its doors for the summer, putting the party on a timeline that would seem to go beyond “ambitious” and into “kind of insane”.

And that’s assuming that the other opposition parties would play along with the Liberals when it came time to vote, which, as we’ve been told time and time again, is far from a sure thing, although ITQ is probably a bit more uncertain on that one than most of her colleagues, simply because she thinks the Bloc Quebecois are pretty much always ready for an election, despite the constant tut-tutting from English Canada over its imminent demise, and she’s not sure how the NDP could swallow itself whole and vote with the Conservatives, especially on something like EI, given what a big deal they’ve made over being the real official opposition. The government could, in theory, cut a deal with one of the two, but given the fact that the prime minister has already been muttering darkly about how the apparent opposition unity on EI constitutes a stealth resurrection of the diabolical, power-crazed coalition, that seems like a long shot.

And yet — somehow, it just doesn’t feel like we’re on the verge of an election, or even the verge of an election crisis, vague and unspecified threats from the leader of the opposition notwithstanding. Which leaves us to wonder idly, while waiting for the bells to ring for the last time and the Hill to slip into a peaceful summer slumber, what exactly did Ignatieff mean when he said he’d mess with the PM until he was done? More Youtube videos? More scowling? More crosscountry speechifying about all the perfidies committed against Canadians by this government up with which he will not put, despite the fact that, so far, every time he’s eventually wound up doing just that in the end? Or will the press gallery wind up staking out Rideau Hall some (hopefully) sunny morning this June, every one of us claiming to have seen it coming all along? ITQ has her SPF 30 sunscreen primed and ready — but she’s not going to start brainstorming new Nanos-related rolling poll headlines just yet.

Tags: at least they didn't pull this mid-inquiry, break out the summer weight sweaters, countdown to the anticlimax begins now!, election speculation: it's the Hill version of shopping for a prom dress, little shop of tories v2.0, Michael Ignatieff, Stephen Harper

More by kadyomalley

Paul Wells

Sounds messy.
cantuc

Did Iggy have his very stern voice on ? or just his I really , really really mean it this time voice ?

http://myblahg.com Robert McClelland

I think it was his Mr. T voice. I pity the fool that messes with Mr. I.

Sisyphus

Oh, just another Clint Eastwood fantasy moment.

Of course, it’s always worked for Clint.

cantuc

gawd , the bastards gonna huff an puff us all to bloody death . Did any of Ignatiefs students or audiences manage to make it all the way through one of his sermons without injecting caffeine into their neck arteries ?

http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

I like the ‘until I’m done’ bit that’s tacked on to the end.

I assume they are fightin’ words for party faithful and maybe Iggy thinks it makes him look stronger than effete Dion if he says things like that. I agree that election does not look imminent but who knows.

Dot

Done, like dinner?
RayK

It frustrates me to no end that Ignatieff gets credit for being “stronger than Dion” in part because he hasn’t obstained from confidence votes as Mr. Dion did.

Yes, voting FOR the policies you claim are destroying the country’s economy rather than just obstaining–that’s “strength”.
Agent Smith

I hate it when Iggy goes all Mr Burns on us.

http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

I doubt there will be a summer election- it seems more like the usual tough-talking that happens before every break and not anything serious.
And despite the fact that I’m always pumped for an election, I don’t want a summer election- it’s hard enough to willfully be a nuisance in the fall or spring- I have no desire to get sunburned or frostbitten knocking on doors of people who couldn’t care less.
I will, of course, but I think Elections Canada should subsidize sunscreen. :p

Douglass

As much as I’d love to see them go to the polls in July. I tend to agree with you. I’m heavily pregnant and due in July. The last thing anyone needs is an exhausted sunburned pregnant woman on their doorstep.

http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

The master plan may be to turn off everyone from voting at all because all of the volunteers that show up on their doorstep are sunburned and cranky. ;)

Douglass

Sigh….but its better than the snow.

http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

So true.
July election>Christmas election, but Hallowe’en Election pwns all.

http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

“The last thing anyone needs is an exhausted sunburned pregnant woman on their doorstep.”

I agree 110% with that sentence.

RayK

“More crosscountry speechifying about all the perfidies committed against Canadians by this government up with which he will not put [up], despite the fact that, so far, every time he’s eventually wound up doing just that in the end?”

Bang on. From the budget probation charade to the $3 billion Tory slush fund, from getting infrastructure money out the door to this latest flurish on EI–Ignatieff is long on rhetoric and short on action.

Worse yet the media seem to accept his rhetoric and ignore his actions. There has been no serious or sustained questioning of Ignatieff on the most glaring issue of his leadersship: how can you blame Stephen Harper for everything under the sun, but do nothing to stop him?

Liz

Yeah, Harper sucks at actually getting things done. Who voted for the do-nothing Harper? He’s all over the country saying this and that, yet nothing gets done. Well some things get done, like $5 million for tobacco farmers in Haldimand to help them grow anything but tobacco, yet the tobacco crop looks like it is coming along nicely. $5 million sure can buy a lot of fertilizer… especially at the Finley rates.

Where’s the vaunted Accountability Act now? Out to lunch with Harper no doubt.

RayK

Exactly my point. Harper is dithering while Canadians are suffering in this recession and Michael Ignatieff has kept him in power rather than forced him to act.

avr

Forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

Forget the economic stuff for a moment: ITQ has developed, for her own personal use, a little alternative universe thought experiment she likes to call the Veiled Voting Debacle Challenge, which attempts to predict how a particular politician would have responded to one of the most embarrassing, hamhanded examples of all-party parliamentary insanity in recent memory.

Would they have jumped on the xenophobic Outremont-pandering bandwagon? Probably — everyone did, after all. But would they have come to their senses after the fact, and come out in support of independent electoral officers interpreting the law as it was actually written, and not the imaginary version that the MPs who tried in vain to bully the chief electoral officer at that charade of a special summertime committee meeting insisted they had actually meant to pass?

Dion, for all his notaleaderness, at least managed the latter; the Liberals were the first to speak out against the second (and similarly badly drafted) legislative attempt to force Muslim women to show their faces at the polling station, despite the fact that absentee and special ballots would continue to be accepted by mail. In fact, Ignatieff himself is quoted repeatedly in reaction pieces, criticizing the government for dragging the debate into the House of Commons.

Dion also had his caucus vote against the extension of the anti-terrorism “sunset clauses” , several of which have been found to be at least partly unconstitutional, despite the fact that it sent the government into fits of finger-pointing terrorist-coddling accusations, and was seen at the time as being at least a little bit on the politically courageous side.

If he had been leader at that time, what would Ignatieff have done in those two instances?

anonlinereader

The Backroom Boys are back in Town ! They may not be grassroots but they will up harper’s checker game to chess . Look out rookie cons your long john flaps are open on a lot of issues .

Bruce

“The Backroom Boys are back in Town !” , that is sure to resonate with the Canadian electorate, not.

Your boys can’t even play tiddly winks let alone checkers or chess.

anonlinereader

Getting ‘er done resonates , stumbling in the dark like a light weight punch drunk want- a-be “smartest man in the room ” causes laughter .

” Lowering EI qualifications an ‘absurdity,’ PM says ” (to defeated action party ).CAMPBELL CLARK
OTTAWA — “prompting opponents to accuse him of reviving Reform Party rhetoric that suggests people try to lose jobs to collect EI.”

Bruce

anonlinereader-non gradus anus rodentum
Bruce

Ignatieff blinks on EI reform

After talking tough for a week or so, the Liberals have started signalling that they will back off opposing Harper’s Tories on changes to the ‘unfair’ EI rules.

madeyoulook

If he had been leader at that time, what would Ignatieff have done in those two instances?

Uh-oh. Careful, Iggy. The above question is verb-tensed dangerously closely to one that got your predecessor in a heap of ridicule out Halifax way.

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

I think it’s a fair question! These aren’t really time-sensitive issues like, f’rinstance, a question about that whole global economic crisis kerfuffle. Really, they’re pretty much static, as far as where someone stands, aren’t they? (If my question is horribly worded, I’m willing to tweak it, of course.)

wilson

‘If he had been leader at that time, what would Ignatieff have done in those two instances?’

How can anyone even hazard a guess Kady?
MI caved to Danny, is that indicative of anything?
MI signed the coaltion accord, then 5 months later denounced it for the same reasons he originally supported it. Maybe MI is time sensitive.
madeyoulook

Of course it’s a fair question. It just sounds a lot like the CTV interview that caused a fuss for mister Dion, and may have temporarily rendered the word “despicable” a free ticket to moderation purgatory for any comment at Macleans.ca, if you catch my drift.
Canuckistanian

good question? veiled-voting-gate was, along with lets-get-rid-of-all-the-dual-nationals-gate, one of the few times i’ve been truly embarrassed to call myself a Canuckistanian. whoever stands against such chauvinistic attempts to debase our polity is a winner in my books.

Bruce

Ignatieff sees fit to abandon his Liberal troops, who have been ordered by him to fund raise like industrious wing flapping excrement hiding little Puffins, for the beaches of Bermuda.

Real good optics.

Is the weather not good enough in Canada?

Oh, he’s being waited on hand and foot, just like Miss Ruby.

Iggy and his empty threats, he’s just an empty suit.

Iggy is worse than Dion, not a leader too.

Douglass

Your really trying to pound that not a leader stuff in, eh.

Man you desperately need some new talking points.

anonlinereader

New talking points ? free trade ? softwood liquior ? isotopes ? proper way to lower taxes ? next years hopefull infrastructure ideas ? speech to ADQ in Calgary by chaney ? ………………. et tu Bruce
Bruce

Spell much? That should be “you’re”

Canuckistanian

“Oh, he’s being waited on hand and foot, just like Miss Ruby.”

ahem, that’s “Dr.” Ruby Back-Quacker ;-)

leigh

There is a particular Conservative riding that is sending out automated phone calls to anyone who’s even put a sign on their lawn asking them to be a candidate for the riding. Does that sound like election preparedness? Or just bad taste?

Bruce

I call bullshit on that one leigh.

leigh

Sorry to disappoint but it’s the truth.

Bruce

No proof? Not surprising, typical Lieberal.

paulsstuff

Actually Leigh, it sounds more like voices in your head than reality. Nice try though.
leigh

My next door neighbours got the call and told me about it.

Ceeger

Oh, your next-door neighbours got the call and told you about it? Well then, why are some of us daring to doubt you? Of course you must be right, because my neighbours saw Elvis peeking out of the window of a flying saucer that whipped by his window last night. And who would doubt them?

Wow leigh, if you’re going to troll for the Liberals here and float your trial balloons, at least come up with something reasonable, OK?

Change your handle and try again, with a better story. Because you’ve pretty much ruined the credibility of the ‘leigh’ moniker on this board.

leigh

Again, sorry to disappoint but you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Given that you have no first hand information your response is bizarre!

anonlinereader

Government pays for con ads ? One way to make work .

Chris S.

They do use our tax money in fact. You can thank Kory Teneycke for coming up with this idea: the Tory poop-o-gram.

http://deleted Sandi

I’ve been pummelled with Con tenpercenters – 13 in 4 months. Most have a questionnaire on them like – who would be better on the economy – Cons Libs NDP.

I see all the Iggy haters are out today.

No comments on Harper’s angry bully voice with finger pointing included?

GG

I bet PM Harper is really really scared now….I feel embarrassed for Iggy when he goes off like that. I notice he was in NFLD when he said it, taking a page from Danny Boys book I think.

paulsstuff

I think what would be a really good counter attack would be for Iggy to repeatedly call the PM a liar. Worked for Dion.

Oh, wait. nevermins.

Canuckistanian

I get about 3 per year from Mr. Toronto-Danforth; and i live in Downtown Vancouver. waste of money.

Stephen

Somehow “till I’m done” from Iggy brings up images of him getting Harpers parking spot removed, favourite table at the faculty club moved to beside the kitchen and denying funding for that extra grad student he asked for.

Tough words and I am sure he’ll unleash some counter attack. But what mud can he throw at harper that hasn’t already been thrown at him. Not saying there arent ugly statements from Haper’s past, but I think that Martin and Dion (mostly martin) used them all up.

Once again MI is making Liberals feel good about being Liberals. That this task is still required tells you there is no election this summer. We will see what happens in the fall with the Throne speech. It is to Iggy’s advantage to keep campaigning. The more Canadians see him as opposition leader the less the attacks about him being “foreign” will count for anything. As well, Iggy gets one shot at winning. If he loses, given his age, he will be forced to resign, no second chances. He also needs a platform, he also needs money. These are all being fixed at different rates, but none are fixed yet.

EI reform, while an issue, is hardly a burning issue. Especially when you could probably fund a large number of economists who will lambast easing the rules too much. A difficult consensus was formed in the 80′s that the EI rules were too accomodating in the 70′s and that this had bad effects on the country’s productivity, natural rate of unemployment etc. That those rules were not changed by the Liberal regime under Chretien or Martin is pretty good evidence that they were on side.

RayK

I agree with much of your comment, but I think you’ve got a few things wrong.

“We will see what happens in the fall with the Throne speech.”

I doubt there will be a Throne Speech in the fall. Harper is under no obiligation to prorogue parliament and can keep this session of parliament going until the next election if he so chooses.

“As well, Iggy gets one shot at winning. If he loses, given his age, he will be forced to resign, no second chances.”

Iggy is only 62. Paul Martin was elected at age 66. Ignatieff may not get a second chance if he loses, but I don’t think his age will necessarily disqualify him.

“A difficult consensus was formed in the 80’s that the EI rules were too accomodating in the 70’s and that this had bad effects on the country’s productivity, natural rate of unemployment etc. That those rules were not changed by the Liberal regime under Chretien or Martin is pretty good evidence that they were on side.”

The Liberals not only didn’t restore benefits cut by the Progressive Conservatives in the late nineties, they cut benefits further including introducing the current hours of eligibility.

Stephen

Martin ran as PM twice…..if Iggy doesnt get that then I dont see there being another chance, with one caveat, an extremely close election that loks to be followed by another. A defeat where the cons stay in the position they are doesnt do Iggy any good, unless he flips and goes for a coalition. An NDP Lib coalition that can command a majority might work if that was the result.

It isnt that age disqualifies him out of the gate, but it becomes very difficult to imagine him running again as opposition leader at 64 or 66….it is different if he is running as PM.

You are right on the Throne speech. It all comes down to whether Harper wants an election. If he wants to lay out a new plan in a Throne Speech, which is an explicit confidence motion, then a new session will happen. He could continue this session, wrap it up in Fall an Prorogue till after the Olympics. You have to think Harper has the Olympics and the G-8 meeting in the summer of 2010 as things he would really really like stay PM for.

Hard to imagine there not being an election before the G-8 meeting.

wilson

”An NDP Lib coalition that can command a majority might work if that was the result”

In the last days of the election, Dion absolutely denied Libs would form ‘a coaltion with the NDP’.
voila…a coalition agreement was signed 2 months later (you know the rest).

The question will definitely be put to MI in the next election.

That will be a huge rat’s nest for the Liberals, regardless of MI’s approach.
-Coalition with Dippers ok, but not if it includes the Bloc? Quebecers will love that one!
-No coalition with any party (like Dion said). Canadians (GG ) will hold Libs to that.

Will Dippers support a Liberal led coalition that offered no Cabinet posts, especially after MI killed the 2008 coalition after putting his signature to the agreement?
Blue Liberals will run to the Cons.
Borrowed Dipper votes will go back to the Dippers in hopes of getting more NDP in cabinet.
A real rat’s nest.

Anon

It’s hard to believe that the three opposition parties — having learned their lessons from the December formal coalition talks — have not had their backroom boys huddling away mapping out scenarios. I’m sure Ignatieff would not have come out with his EI proposal without having some form of informal consultations.

On the other hand, Harper wouldn’t have launched ads and gone ahead with pronouncing the resurrection of the evil coalition if his own attempts at getting Layton and/or Duceppe on side had succeeded. In fact, the credit card thing may have been another belated gesture at getting Layton on board. Unfortunately for Harper, there is really nothing in it for them to support Harper, and besides, I think Layton and Duceppe, on a personal level, dislike Harper intensely.

Canadians never want an election. Let me see: we don’t want an election in the winter because it’s too cold, not in the fall because it’s back-to-school time, and not in the summer because it’s cottage time. So, that’s not an issue.

Once an election is called, people will want to voice their opinion. As I am sure, will Kady and all her parliamentary colleagues who keep repeating their favorite “there will be no election” mantra because they are too afraid to jinx what is after all their raison d’etre — to cover political contests, or if there is none, to create one.

Douglass

“Unfortunately for Harper, there is really nothing in it for them to support Harper, and besides, I think Layton and Duceppe, on a personal level, dislike Harper intensely.”

I think your right there. It would be terribly hard for either of these parties to support the government under Harper’s leadership. Not surprisingly there is a general mistrust of him.

“Canadians never want an election. Let me see: we don’t want an election in the winter because it’s too cold, not in the fall because it’s back-to-school time, and not in the summer because it’s cottage time. So, that’s not an issue. Once an election is called, people will want to voice their opinion.”

I agree. It is absolutely never a good time for an election, until one is called that is.
http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

For the record, I’m not saying there *won’t* be an election this summer. I’m also saying there won’t necessarily *be* an election. I haven’t a clue what’s going to happen, but based on recent history, I’ll not be gearing up for full throttle Little-Shop-stalking mode right this second. On a related note, I never understand why ostensibly ordinary Canadians have such strong opinions on whether to have an election at any given time. I mean, honestly, it doesn’t change most people’s day to day existence. All they have to do is figure out who they want to vote for, and show up at a poll — which, thanks to the amended Elections Act, they can do on virtually any day of the campaign. It’s the tiny minority mentioned by Anon – journalists and partisans, that is – who have our lives turned upside down for 36 days (give or take a few for pre-/post-election gruntwork).

hollinm

Kady…oh the poor biased media will have to work hard for 36 days dreaming up lies on the Conservatives so they can support their favourite to win…. the Count. Will they chase Conservative candidates and MPs into the fart corners of a kitchen to find out what they think of abortion. creationism, evolution, Christian beliefs etc.

Will journalists continue to interview journalists so they can tell the Canadian people what to think? After all that Harper is a scary, mean spirited man who refuses to cowtow to the parliamentary press gallery. He must be exposed.

On the other hand they will write puff pieces on the arrogant Count when in fact they know little about what policies he would inflict on Canadians, on how he would manage the economy differently etc. etc.

They will just quote the usual Liberal propaganda everyday so that their guy is going to come out on time.

Derek Pearce

Yawn.

Ted

Heres a thought…What if no-one votes in the next election. then no one gets elected. I know most people vote because its thier democratic right etc.. but think about it. Every time someone gets elected everything stays the same or gets worse and no matter which party gets in they always pass laws to help the rich and punish the poor and nothing ever changes. The gap between the rich and poor has steadly widened over the last 40 years and most people are struggling just to make ends meet. Our standard of living has dropped from second place in the world down to twenty or something. I am thinking about not voting and I know other people feel the same way because a lot fewer voted during the last election. This really messed things up for them because they didn’t get the popular vote. Some of them are paid according to the popular vote. What if only say 5% voted this time would they have to change the rules? I have no love for any polititions. I have been around long enough to know they are all bought and paid for by the financial establishment. If no-one votes then it would be a strong sign of public protest and discontent with the political system. There shouldn’t even be partys. Every member should be an independent so they wouldn’t have to tow the party line any more and they could vote there own conscience. Britains govenor general should not be able to PROROGUE anything here in Canada and she should mind her own business. We don’t need a Privi Council either and why do we need a Senate? The system is flawed as it stands. The Canadian political system could be one hundred times better that Britains. I know others are sick of this nonsence too. We know there’s going to be an election soon because the attack ads have started allready and the CONS, FIBERALS and NEW DREAM-ON PARTY are already hurling insults so I urge every one to stay home and NOT vote

Canuckistanian

you’re not the usual Ted. try a new handle, like: Ted(Theodore Logan)

hollinm

The Count is showing his arrogance and sounds effete.

The bottom line is there will be no election. The Libs don’t have the money and there is plenty of work to be done by the Liberals to get their oraganization together;not just financial.

However, is Iggy is that crazy to go to the people over EI and raising payroll taxes? He will play right into Harper’s hands.

The ads are working despite the crumbling by the media and the Liberal syncophants.

Iggy talking the way he is just reinforces the image of one who is all talk and no action.
Calgary Junkie

Here’s how I see the Opps getting out of this mess … Iggy tables a non-confidence motion, calling for EI changes, but of course only TEMPORARILY, until the recession subsides (or whatever). Layton and Duceppe say that’s not good enough, we want PERMANENT changes. Iggy’s motion gets defeated. Everyone goes on vacation with heads held high, and their own talking points until the fall economic update.

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

See, I’m not sure if that works for either the Bloc or the Dips – is “something” not better than “nothing”, when you’re talking about real, tangible benefits for people? It reminds me a little of that vote on Afghanistan in — gosh, I guess 2007, when the Liberals and the Bloc Quebecois wanted to pull out in 2009, but the NDP voted with the government, against the motion, because, they averred, the only acceptable position was to pull out *immediately*.

paulsstuff

I’m not sure that’s a great example Kady. In the end the mission was extended to 2011 with the support of the Liberals.As for Calgary Junkie’s possible scenario, it could make sense. Layton dismisses the motion due to it being a temporary measure, while pointing out the Liberal’s used the e.i. surplus in the past to balance the budget, and will do so again if in power. Iggy will be in a tough spot. That E.I. fund provides general revenues and I highly doubt he wants to lose that tax revenue if he ends up as PM.

wilson

Chretien was going to kill the GST.
MI signed the coalition accord and was 100% behind a duly elected Dion as PM.

Nothing, absolutely nothing MI campaigns on means anything,
if his past record is any indication. Which it is, because that is how we judge our politicians.

Calgary Junkie

I was thinking of that Afghan vote too. Don Newman was also surprised, when interviewing Layton, that he wouldn’t settle for “something” (2009 pullout), but insisted on the immediate pullout, and thus voted against the motion as worded. So it will again be easy for Layton to nitpick the wording of a Liberal motion that talks about “temporary” changes, as opposed to the “permanent” changes that Jack wants.

One more thing, I’m pretty sure Duceppe has said he will only defeat this gov’t on something major like a budget. So Duceppe has a different face-saving out, and could easily spin it to his base’s satisfaction.

Andrew (not Potter or Coyne)

Voting against temporary changes because they want permanent changes sounds like pretty thin gruel. The Liberals could easily make them wear voting against improved EI eligibility.

Canuckistanian

“Voting against temporary changes because they want permanent changes sounds like pretty thin gruel.”

not when you’ve voted against 2009 withdrawal b/c you want out NOW!!! maybe thin gruel is a staple diet for dippers?

RayK

An NDP motion calling for the same 360 hour change to EI–along with others–already passed the House of Comons weeks ago with the support of the Liberals and the Bloc.

The only reason to introduce another motion on this issue–this time as a matter of non-confidence–would be to try to force the government to act under the threat of defeat. If the strategy worked, the motion would be withdrawn anyway; so wording the motion in a manner deliberately meant to ensure that other parties don’t support it would expose the whole thing as a sham from the beginning.

The Afghanistan motion by the Liberals and the Bloc was a completely different matter–though I can see why one might find it reminiscent.

In that case, the government had already committed to seeking parliament’s approval before extending the Afghan mission beyond 2009. All parliament had to do was refuse to pass another extension.

The purpose of the Liberal motion was to paper over the fact that the Liberals and the Bloc had actually voted to extend the war by passing a non-binding opposition day motion phrased as calling for an end date. But the Liberals had no real intention of backing up that motion if and when the government forced the issue. This was proved to be the case 11 months later when the same Liberal caucus voted to extend the war in Afghanistan again until 2011.

Paul Wells

My own Impossible Dream is a Canadian politics in which nobody justifies his acts by the horrible actions of the other. So the Conservatives wouldn’t say, “We had to run these ads because Kinsella’s been killing us” and Ignatieff wouldn’t say, “I am messing with you until the dessert course because you messed with me” and the NDP wouldn’t say “There’s a new coalition, and we have to oppose it” and so on. People would, in my Impossible Dream, say “Here’s some stuff Canada needs to hear and I am perfectly willing to be the person who says it,”

Of course nobody can say that, because the other guys have ruined everything already. It’s nobody’s own fault, you see.

http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

I share your dream, Wells.

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

Your both hippies.

kc

Pw
Are you saying Canadian [fed] politics is all about pissing in the other guy’s soup? I’m shocked!
Hmmm, maybe i’m not. Didn’t Miz Hebert just say something similar, along the lines of the Harper strategy being to poison the political wells [no pun intended] and hope your neighbour dies first?
Methinks she’s the best pundit in the land.[ outside of team Mac of course]

Douglass

Politicians talking about idea’s. What a wonderful world that would be.

Critical Reasoning

You should take the apostrophe that you added to “ideas” and lend it to bigcitylib so that he can use it to spell “you’re” correctly.

Douglass

Guilty. I’m regularly in need of spell check.
Canuckistanian

nice, for a grammartarian

http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “Peace, order, and good government.”

I have a dream that one day on the green hill of Parliament the sons of Dippers and the sons of former Reform Party members will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the House of Commons, a House sweltering with the heat of preteen nincompoopery, sweltering with the heat of inanity, will be transformed into an oasis of reason and eloquence.

I have a dream that the four political parties will one day coexist in a nation where they will not be judged by the subliminal BS of their opponents’ ad campaigns but by the content of their party platforms.

I have a dream today.

http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

On rereading, I would like to withdraw my slander of our under-13 fellow citizens.

Critical Reasoning

“Get off my lawn, you preteen nincompoops!”
http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

Actually, I think you got it exactly right.
It reminds me of a game of football played entirely by boys in Grade 7. The shouting, the testosterone, the ‘Oh yeah?” tone of the whole thing.
The question, of course, is if we-Canada- are the girls sitting at the edge of the field gossiping and shaking our heads- or are we the ball?

http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

LOL, that’s exactly right.

http://deleted Sandi

Quite a dream Mr. Wells – we all know if voters were told what they needed to be told – they wouldn’t vote for that person.

We are our own worst enemies, and we all complain.

By the way, why does Harper hate Ontario? Why do the Cons think it’s terrible to like Algonquin Park? It’s a beautiful place – next to nature, wildlife and camping and all that good stuff.

So, didn’t Stevie’s mummy and daddy take him there as a kid, therefore it doesn’t count?

Stevie boy – slagging Ontario again.

cantuc

now theres a strawgrabber

Al Heck Brakes

““If you mess with me, I will mess with you until I’m done.””

The existence of huge sums of money and vast discretionary powers concentrated in the federal government is like a powerful magnet that attracts moral and mental midgets.

And you people actually take this seriously when you scour the news for signs that “your” moral midget is kicking “their” moral midget’s butt? And you think you’re doing yourselves a bit of good when you mark an ‘X’ beside the name of “your” midget?

I want my money back.

Douglass

Continually using the word midget as an insult, might make you feel like a big man. However it just shows the rest of us how mean spirited you really are.

Pick some new vocabulary.

Peter

What is with the Headline?
What is it supposed to represent?
Is it mocking a particular group of people?
Or are you just ignorant?

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

I just enjoy the odd bit of wordplay. Stick around, you’ll see.

madeyoulook

Permit me a little editor’s red ink, then:

If “THEM’S” at the beginning of the sentence, then you should consistently keep “THEM IS” at the end.

Just sayin’.

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

I feel the lack of noun-verb agreement emphasizes the colloquial nature of the phrase, and will fight to the death to defend that position.

Wascally Wabbit

“I just enjoy the odd bit of wordplay”

The Queen of the understatement – at play! ;-)

Peter

Interesting wordplay – doubtful at best. Where was Ignatieff when he made the remarks? Newfoundland and Labrador. Considering your roots you should know better. I listen to your interviews on our local CBC radio program – I did not like this piece of work. It’s cheap – it’s boring – and it’s old. Our democratic system that is!

http://www.savedarfur.org Sophia Geffros

I didn’t feel that that could in any way be interpreted as making fun of Newfoundlanders. Or Labradorians, for that matter.
If anything, the people who should be offended are the old men in westerns circa 1961.

Canuckistanian

are you mocking my regional dialect? them’s is fightin’ words, them are ;-)

Rick

Foghorn Leghorn lives! Go Kady!

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

This is all just fightback against the negative ads. It doesn’t really mean anything, but on the other hand the theory says joe six-pack will hear all these Tory ads and, when the writ is dropped, spontaneously come to the belief that Iggy is an outsider. So why not atttract all this free media attention, with the theory being that when the writ is dropped, Joe six pack will think instead: “Hey, that Iggy guy is a major badass.”

Think of its purpose as rhetoric and the content part won’t seem as important.

As for the veiled voter thing, Iggy did speak against one of the bills. Given the state of party discipline at the time, there’s no reason to think he wasn’t being straight.

Mulletaur

Joe six pack will think instead: “Hey, that Iggy guy is a major badass.”

Oh, please. Get real. Chrétien was a major badass, even at the age he is and after a heart operation I would still want him as backup in a scrap. Trudeau was a major badass, he was a black belt in judo and had the attitude to back it up. Iggy should play to his strengths, not try to be something he’s not.
http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

He did, and he gets credit for that, in my book — with a but: If he had been the leader at the time, would that have been the position of the party? Or would he have equivocated his way to some mushy half-and-half visual-identification-of-voters-if-necessary-but-not-necessarily-visual-identification position?

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

Kadey,

It seems to me that most of the people from most of the parties recognized the V V law as being ridiculous, in the end. Once it became clear that there was nothing in the bill to reduce the risk of fraud in mail-in ballots (why not wear my veil when I am casting a fraudulent mail-in?), they gave up on it.

Or at least that’s how I recall it.

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

So, in the end, I think it would have been an easy call for our hypothetical Iggy-as-Leader.

Canuckistanian

also, to be fair to political actors in the veiled-voting-gate; where was the media to denounce this attempt to cheapen our discourse?

http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

Macleans.ca was all over it, and I’m pretty sure we weren’t alone.

Patrick

Word on the street is that the Tories poll numbers have sunk into the mid twenties on two different private polls.

Harper is hitting the panic button, and key members of his caucus are giving him 6 months to either get a majority or resign.

Critical Reasoning

Patrick, a few days ago: “Our riding president has one of his childhood friends who works at the PMO. He said that we are on the verge on pulling the ads, or at least replacing them because of backlash from ethnic community, particularly in the lower mainland in BC and southern Ontario.”

Can we assume that the “word on the street” source of your latest failed experiment in rumour mongering is your Liberal riding president?
http://carnewsandviews.com jwl

What ‘street’ would that be? Could it be Metcalfe St.
hollinm

What are private polls. Are those the polls only politicians see?

Nice spin though. Will believe it when I see it.

Bruce

Is a private pole the one that Judy Sgro said that Miss Ruby was climbing?

Stephen

Public polls will be coming soon enough. The Poll of Polls will provide the snapshot at the time.

The ads would have been tested ahead of time, so if there is no effect on MI and the Libs they are wrong on content, execution or both. Let the data speak and then the interpretation fun can begin.

paulsstuff

The problem with polls is as soon as the writ is dropped they are useless. All it takes is one gaffe (think John Tory), to change the tide in an election campaign. Debates, attack ads daily on tv and radio, talking about policy, quality of candidates.

Paul Martin was supposedly on his way to a 200+ seat majority, How did that turn out? Harper appeared headed toward a majority last election, how did that turn out?

Unless the PM or Iggy get caught in some kind of compromising situation with, say, a farm animal, the polls will really just be a reflection of that point in time.

paulsstuff

Yep. Because caucus members tell the Prime Minister what to do, with threats no less.

Mulletaur

“If you mess with me, I will mess with you until I’m done.”

Words are cheap. Some real, hard counterpunching in real time would be a nice thing.

Ceeger

Liberal punches land on the jaw with the softness of butterflies and momma’s good night kisses. I think it has something to do with the limp-wristedness that is also a hallmark of their convictions and ideology.

Derek Pearce

It’s interesting to hear terms like “real hard counterpunching” vs “limp-wristedness” in these discussions. This is precisely why Iggy used the phrase he did. The whole “Tories are bullies and need to be stood up to– and this time we’re ready to stand up to them, take them on” meme is important to motivate the party membership. I can’t wait to see the latest round of poll results, ie whether the attack ads will have worked as the Conservatives intended or whether they’ve reinforced this bully image and turned off voters.

kc

I was just in Alberta…ground o for Harper . I was more than a little surprised to hear my friend – a Harper fan – grumbling about those adds. Of course this is only one person…and i’m sure it wont turn my buddy into a fan of Iggy…still. We live in interesting times.
Liz

Ceeger illustrates the mindset of the Harper crew: all about fists while standing up for one of the biggest bullies who’s never been in a fight. Harper couldn’t take a punch if it was delivered like flowers. Always there is someone else who takes it on the chin for Harper. Harper is candy. Everbody knows.

If Harper didnt’t have his Ceegers, he’d have nothing at all.

As an aside, is it only me who wonders about Ceeger’s emphasis on the womanly traits? Kiss mommy goodnight, Ceeger, because things are going to get hairier than your dreams of mommas. Much hairier. Say goodnight to your momma, Ceegers, where you’re off to your momma can’t go. Or can she?

hollinm

You really must be a girl. All this talk about bullies. How is it being a bully. Obviously you think that Iggy is the weaker one if you think because the Conservative party is running ads that it will hurt the Count.

Liberals must be scared to death of the impact of the ads because they want to keep talking about them.

There may be some people who don’t like them but I think the seriously ordinary Canadian who does not follow politics looks at them with dispassion. Some will think they have some truth to them. Others not so much. Then they go on with lives. Whether they attribute vitriolic thoughts to them is left to us who follow politics.

The Liberals would be better off downplaying the ads by not mentioning them. Otherwise it keeps them in the news and of course they will continue to play whether the media and Liberals like it or not. So discussing them causes people to want to see them.

However, why not focus on Liberal policies and what the Count would do differently with the economy if he were in charge? Why not tell Canadians that an Ignatieff foreign policy would not support war and torture? Or would it? Why not tell Canadians the real position of the Count and the Liberal party on taxation.? Why not tell Canadians how the Liberal party would cover the deficit if it were in charge?

So many questions so few answers from the carpetbagger who wants to be PM.
http://www2.macleans.ca/category/blogs/national/inside-the-queensway/ Kady O'Malley

You know, you might want to focus test “you must be a girl” as an intro line for your argument, which is actually not all that bad. Then again, what do I know? Don’t ask me – I’m just a girl!
Sophia Geffros

You really must be a girl.
And this is a problem…why?
Mulletaur

“Harper couldn’t take a punch if it was delivered like flowers. Always there is someone else who takes it on the chin for Harper. Harper is candy. Everybody knows.”

Very nice turn of phrase, Liz. Except that you have now given me a Leonard Cohen song tumour.
Canuckistanian

“You really must be a girl.”

sayeth the misogynist…

madeyoulook

We do, however, have Colleague Wells’ exclusive report on the Liberals’ “extraordinarily ambitious plan to nearly quintuple the party’s revenues from private donations”, which has apparently been bumped up from a leisurely fall rollout to a June 1st start date, which seems to be a direct response to the “Just Visiting” ad onslaught (adslaught?) currently filling the airwaves courtesy of the Conservative Party.

If that is truly the case, and I have no reason to doubt Wells’s (yes, Wells’s, not Wells’) reporting, then Stephen Harper has performed the two most valuable favours the Liberal Party has received in the last half-year:

(1) Prorogue Parliament to prevent Canadians from getting so peeved at the Liberals for the coalition nightmare See “Harper saved the Liberals from themselves, December 2008).

(2) Fire up the belly of the once former Natural Governing Party that they finally realized they should read the rule book they themselves wrote (back in the waning Chretien days) on party fundraising, and maybe, you know, start fundraising.

kc

Stephen Harper – Not a Tory.

Chris S.

got it.

Jack M

Canwest can’t afford to cover an election and the CBC would have to pull the cost out of executive bonuses. No election this summer.

Bruce

Not to mention that the Liberals are broke.
http://www.jackmitchell.ca Jack Mitchell

You’re saying that, if an election campaign takes place and no one covers it, it doesn’t really happen?

Liz

Let’s try that for once and see!

Randy

Wow you Conservative trolls are really crapping yourselves over Iggy aren’t y’all.. Carry one folks I am getting a big chuckle out of the fear I cans see between the lines being posted here.