Categories: Need to know

Message to Ignatieff: "If you're going to point the gun, you need to be prepared to pull the trigger"

Anonymous Liberals gripe about Iggy’s gamble

by macleans.ca on Monday, June 22, 2009 10:44am - 11 Comments

Pundits and MPs on both sides of the house suggest that the recent showdown-and subsequent resolution-between the PM and opposition leader Michael Ignatieff over EI may have hurt the Liberal’s credibility. There’s a limited number of times that Harper and Ignatieff can take their brinkmanship to the edge and maintain authority, explained pollster Nik Nanos. “Michael Ignatieff should now learn that if you’re going to point the gun, you need to be prepared to pull the trigger,” said a top Liberal in an interview with The Hill Times.

Still, others defend the compromise, praising Harper and Ignatieff for their ability to work together. “I think this helped Canadians,” said Ontario Liberal MP David McGuinty. “It’s not about what helped or hurt our party, it helped Canadians because they don’t want an election and we’re showing by conduct, our leader is showing by conduct that were making every effort we can to make this institution work for them.” A Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey released last week reported that only 14 per cent of Canadians want an election.

The Hill Times

Tags: Canada

http://intensedebate.com/people/Tidewaters Chrystal Ocean

And how does a blue-ribbon panel "helped Canadians," Mr. McGuinty? Especially the newly unemployed ones? Unless there's suddenly a run on blue ribbons?

Canadians may be oblivious a lot of the time to what goes on in Ottawa. They may not "want an election" – but would still vote (if so inclined) if one was called. But Canadians are not stupid.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Tidewaters Chrystal Ocean

And how has a blue-ribbon panel "helped Canadians," Mr. McGuinty? Especially the newly unemployed ones? Unless there's suddenly a run on blue ribbons?

Canadians may be oblivious a lot of the time to what goes on in Ottawa. They may not "want an election" – but would still vote (if so inclined) if one was called. But Canadians are not stupid.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Tidewaters Chrystal Ocean

And how has a blue-ribbon panel "helped Canadians," Mr. McGuinty? Especially the newly unemployed ones? Unless there's suddenly a run on blue ribbons?

Canadians may be oblivious a lot of the time to what goes on in Ottawa. They may not "want an election" – but would still vote (if so inclined) if one was called. Canadians are not stupid, however.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Tidewaters Chrystal Ocean

And how has a blue-ribbon panel "helped Canadians," Mr. McGuinty? Especially the newly unemployed ones? Unless there's suddenly a run on blue ribbons?

Canadians may be oblivious a lot of the time to what goes on in Ottawa; they may not "want an election" – but would still vote (if so inclined) if one was called. Canadians, however, are not stupid.

hosertohoosier

Okay – a blue ribbon panel allowed us to delay a decision on the one substantive issue where the Tories and Liberals disagree, so as to continue a budget where there is probably 90% agreement between the parties. It also takes that divisive issue outside of parliament so that serious reform proposals can be considered outside of a partisan meat-grinder.

As with Harper's Afghanistan committee, delegation to outside parties can actually be quite effective in a minority parliament, because it enables the committee to frame the question parliament votes on. So if you have a question where there is a tension between short-term gain and long-term gain (eg. do you want to dump lots of money into EI, or to really reform the system) a committee can ask the question: "long term gain, yes or no". In a minority parliament, nobody has an incentive to propose the long-term option because results aren't likely to materialize before the next election.

Yes, historically, committees and fact-finding is a scam orchestrated by majority governments to defuse political crises. That is because they can easily ignore the recommendations of such committees. Minority parliaments have a much greater difficulty ignoring these things (and are generally more sensitive to even small movements in public opinion).

So, in a word, yes. A blue-ribbon committee can help Canadians.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Tidewaters Chrystal Ocean

Like the John Manley blue-ribbon panel ordered by Harper to review our involvement in the NATO mission in Afghanistan? The one which urged: "the Government must engage Canadians in a continuous, frank and constructive dialogue about conditions in Afghanistan"? Given we're not even going to be told HOW MUCH MONEY is to be absorbed by the mission over the next fiscal year, it doesn't appear that recommendations by blue – or whatever colour – ribbon panels amount to much. Governments are not bound to accept mere recommendations.

hosertohoosier

Yes, like the Manley panel. It clarified Canada's position in Afghanistan immensely – giving us an exit date, and a clear set of objectives, all while preventing a Liberal caucus revolt (or a Conservative one, for Harper accepting an exit date). If Harper had proposed the 2011 thing right away he would have been called a hypocrite. If Dion had done so, he would have faced a caucus rebellion. Moreover, Canada's generals and troops now have a clearer sense of the mission as well – they know there won't be another acrimonious battle like the first fight over extending the Afghanistan mission.

Incidentally, the government did accept the important recommendation of the Manley commission. That financial data is being withheld is another matter (I am not sure whether the national security claim matters).

The Bull

yes they are
http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

"Top Liberal"

An MP? An executive of the party? The coffee guy near the Hot Room?

Anonymous sources. For when you're too lazy to confirm.
wml

When Canadians keep hearing the opposition, (representing over 60% of the electoral vote) that this government is incompetent, directionless, blah,blah, blah etc…… who is Mr. Ignatieff and the Liberals to tell us that an election should be averted? So I guess they feel that as bad as the government is we should be happy they are kept in power……what kind of utter non-sense is this? These politicians should be reminded that "we" the people send people to parliament to represent us. Not some ambition a particular person has, or a right opportunity to come to us for a mandate. If the statements the opposition are making about this government are true then the people will vote them out. If not, then they will remain in power. However, it is "we" the people that should make that decision, in my opinion.

This farce that Canadians do not want an election is crap. It's the politicians that don't want one at this time of the year, it's not convenient for them. So don't try an blame this on the Canadian people.
Terren

E-LEC-CTION!! E-LEC-CTION!!!!!