Comments on: Stand and salute (II)

By: austinso

austinso — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:47:22 +0000

Point.

By: austinso

austinso — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:46:15 +0000

At the risk of sounding again like a Harper-apologist internet yahoo…if Harper is completely unaware of Catholic traditions, then I can also see how he would just follow what was going on without asking, and just ends up at the altar receiving communion without realizing what was going on.

Points to being an inconsiderate doofus, perhaps, but to make it into some dastardly deed is just way over the top…

By: austinso

austinso — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:41:33 +0000

Uh…thanks for the clarification…?

I always have a soft spot for those who are so willing to stand behind their convictions in anonymity…

By: austinso

austinso — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:38:53 +0000

Out of curiosity…do you even consider yourself Catholic? Or are you huffing and puffing on their behalf…?

By: rockfish

rockfish — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:23:31 +0000

I'd be most interested to listen to the grapevines of the armed forces and catholic hallways for their reactions. As mentioned, convention for the CONs is all about restrictions to entitlements – unless they convention is designed to serve them or their medicis.

By: tobyornottoby

tobyornottoby — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:26:15 +0000

I despise what Harper has done as prime minister, but I really don't care if he gets saluted or not. A few less parades might be a good idea, but if soliders are going to march around and he's going to watch, what does it matter?

And if he took communion he was just joining in with what everyone else was doing, probably out of respect. Some of you are losing perspective.

If it was such a dire issue why would they risk allowing non-Catholics in the door? I suspect like most Canadians , Catholics consider religon to be a personal matter, and accepting communion as a private decision. I doubt they are interested in sorting out the heretics who accidentally wander into mortal peril. Isn't there a book about that, not judging others etc.?

By: Anon

Anon — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:20:59 +0000

"As long as someone is baptized, then the host can be taken in the RCC. "

WRONG!

By: MJ Patchouli

MJ Patchouli — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:18:25 +0000

Just goes to show how lost the significance of a salute is these days. Salute, shmalute — meaningless to the masses. Maybe you should think less about the salute, and more about the insecure little man who craves it.

By: Governmentopians

Governmentopians — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:34:07 +0000

The GG is merely a fig leaf disguising the power of the emperor, and a transparent one at that. I mean prime minister. If anyone deserves to receive gestures of submission and loyalty in this country, it's the PM. Let him have his salutes.

But I must say, damn the bloggers for noticing things like this and making the public uncomfortably aware of their status as serfs. Someone should really do something about them. Emperor Obama is already taking steps to restrict the internet using commerce and taxes as the excuse. If we follow this lead and add more restrictions based on draconian copyright laws and the paranoid fear of cyber attacks then I think we will be able to get the blogger problem under control.

By: Dot

Dot — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:53:23 +0000

But if she isn’t willing to step up, the CDS should, with the same tone that an RSM would take with his or her CO – respectful, but not completely deferential.

Clearly, Canada needs a Salute Nazi.

"No salute for you!!!"

By: catherine

catherine — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:08:52 +0000

It is not plausible that Harper and his advisors do not know this. Likely Harper figured it will win him more votes than any he would lose. Just like the salute, it is about public image.

By: Bridget

Bridget — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 06:01:16 +0000

I do not think that Harper is guilty of a major misstep here – I just believe that it was a faux-pas. I am a practicing Catholic and I am not offended – just surprised that he did not know that he shouldn't have taken the host in his hand and did whatever he did with it. The priest should have made an announcement to the people attending the funeral mass regarding non Catholics receiving a blessing rather than the host.

By: sea_n_mountains

sea_n_mountains — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:14:09 +0000

"what seems to have happened is that he stepped up to the position to which he was directed and received a general salute – as called for by protocol."

BS, he, as his own Minister attests, requested said salute.

By: Geiseric

Geiseric — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:34:46 +0000

He just would have known, is all. Enough to know his behaviour would be a burden to the Leblanc family.

By: Wascally_Wabbit

Wascally_Wabbit — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:13:05 +0000

Good point Geiseric –

Maybe his suspicions of public servants coming into the job have become self-fulfilling – THEY ARE now setting him up for the fall...
We can but hope!

By: Geiseric

Geiseric — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:32:45 +0000

"goes to character and competence!"

There's more to it than that. It was a State funeral. Whether he wanted to be prepped or not that mistake should have been impossible.

the wheels have come off

By: Geiseric

Geiseric — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:32:04 +0000

"goes to character and competence!"

There's more to it than that. It was a State funeral. Whether he wanted to be prepped or not that mistake should have been impossible.

By: Geiseric

Geiseric — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:34:40 +0000

I'll take that as a "no".

By: E.B.

E.B. — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:33:25 +0000

Once they're down to the last loonie, I'm sure they will mint some more, possibly with Harper's face on it.

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:56:31 +0000

To whom are you referring, exactly?

Also, Catholics don't treat the Host as 'symbolism', but rather as the literal flesh and blood of Christ. That is precisely why receiving in a state of non-communion with the Church is considered perilous.

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:50:40 +0000

Thanks for the correction. My mistake.

By: austinso

austinso — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:46:30 +0000

"Lying on his behalf…"?

Aw…you hurt my feelings….this yahoo will defer to the prancy internet "expert" here (ROFL~!)

Very enlightening I must say…I'm not such a good catholic…certainly when placed beside the cyanosure of holiness called the Geiser…

Frankly, I've attended Catholic masses where eucharistic ministers have offered communion with the proviso that the recipients were baptised. I've been to protestant churches whose ministers will offer communion to their "flock" on specific days (christmas/easter).

I must say though that I am certainly amazed at the rabidity of some Catholics round here…particularly those who would use Law to judge the behaviour of individuals…

Forgive me…I am a sinner…

By: SisyphusThis

SisyphusThis — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:31:22 +0000

Ahhh, if we can play the anthem at sports events it's all downhill from there.

By: MJ Patchouli

MJ Patchouli — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:03:44 +0000

Ah, Conservatives — remember when Mila Mulroney demanded the RCMP salute her, at 24 Sussex, I believe?

I don't know anything about evangelists: do they take communion? Anyway, I rather thought the trend was for churches to allow anyone, even the unconfirmed, to take communion?

Anyway, he's a guy who disrespects protocols all around, why would this be any different?

By: Wascally_Wabbit

Wascally_Wabbit — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:54:34 +0000

Dear Doug – sarcasm aside – it's a small thing – but goes to character and competence!
Heck – he and his merry band are all over Ignatieff's socalled lack of – I don't know what – but when it comes down to it – he's a small town boy (yea – I know – Toronto) who just doesn't know where he fits… and he and his team have the audacity to criticize Ignatieff…
And he thinks he's the BEST leader for Canada?

By: MikeR

MikeR — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:53:09 +0000

If you would like to read the Torch article that heads this thread you will find a reference to the rules of protocol which govern this matter. They include the description of who and when salutes are given to – and the Prime Minister is one of those for whom there is explicit provision for a salute – including a 19 gun salute if the occasion provides.

Saluting is not restricted to officers of our own armed forces. An ordinary salute may be given not only to officers of other nations, but as a sign of respect to any civilian. For more formal salutes, such as the one given to the PM, as has been given to many other Prime Ministers, other rules apply.

But please, save yourself some angst, and simply read what the rules are.

By: jon

jon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:52:30 +0000

Wow- I can’t believe the way some people on this site have just run down Catholic beliefs. Probably the same people who wanted Stockwell Day’s beliefs left alone ( a fair argument ).

Catholics take their belief in the symbolism of the Host very seriously. Your comments are insulting and ignorant.

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:38:59 +0000

Yep, I think they're supposed to do a march past for review, possibly with eyes right, but no salute.

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:37:27 +0000

Neither will Harper. He's meeting God at the Judgement Summit in Afterlife in the next 7 decades.

By: Crit_Reasoning

Crit_Reasoning — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:36:01 +0000

Let's call this one "Wafergate".

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:33:17 +0000

That's false. Even Catholics can't receive if they're conscious of having culpably missed Sunday Mass, or are aware of any other unconfessed grave sins. It goes without saying that a non-Catholic has probably not been attending Sunday Mass.

Bottom line, if he received he made a big mistake, both politically and spiritually, unless he's converted to Catholicism recently and kept it low profile a la Tony Blair.

By: Jack Mitchell

Jack Mitchell — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:31:59 +0000

You literally saw him take the host in his hand? I just find that incredible. It can't have been deliberate, but surely the celebrant would not have allowed someone as famous as PMSH to take communion when everybody knows he's not Catholic! Man . . .

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:31:15 +0000

That's false. Even Catholics can't receive if they're conscious of having culpably missed Sunday Mass. It goes without saying that a non-Catholic has probably not been attending Sunday Mass.

Bottom line, if he received he made a big mistake, both politically and spiritually, unless he's converted to Catholicism recently and kept it low profile a la Tony Blair.

By: Jack Mitchell

Jack Mitchell — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:28:35 +0000

The excess seemed to mock the idea of ceremony itself.

By: doug_rogers

doug_rogers — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:27:31 +0000

Oh!m!g!wD! He copied Kinsella? As, when in Rome, we do as the Romans do! Preumably, he didn't know the actual procedure, not being RC, so he copied Kinsella? Where's jarrid? Oh!m!g!wD! It's true Kinsella is behind EVERYTHING!

By: Geiseric

Geiseric — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:27:00 +0000

Can't Harper do ANYTHING blatantly wrong without some internet yahoo making a point of lying on his behalf?

By: Wascally_Wabbit

Wascally_Wabbit — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:20:48 +0000

Birdget – we touched on that early – see above!
I confess – I did not see him put it in his mouth – but I hope he did – is it a lesser consequence I imagine – than stuffing it in his pocket or even throwing it into the bushes on his way out of the church…

By: Crit_Reasoning

Crit_Reasoning — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:02:23 +0000

The Pope won't be too pleased if he finds out about this serious matter. He's meeting Harper at the G8 summit in Italy next week.

By: Adam

Adam — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:55:43 +0000

No Salute….damn any civilain or civilian leader that thinks they are entitled to a salute…this practice needs to stop it is a disservice to our men an dwomen in uniform that put themselves at risk for our freedom every day. A salute is reserved for officers of the Canadian Armed forces. The Prime Minister Canada is not the leader or Commander in Cheif of our Amred forces much like our neighbour to the south's President, therefore he or she shall never be entitled to a salute. if our soldiers are doing it already they should be informed by senior NCO's that they are not adhering to armed forces regulations for saluting.

By: Bridget

Bridget — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:53:20 +0000

HE ALSO RECEIVES HOLY COMMUNION WHEN HE SHOULDN'T!
I was watching LeBlanc's funeral and Harper took the host – I did not see him eat it but he took it in his hand. He must have been to Catholic Masses in his life. Does he not know that this is a sacrament? I was pretty sure that Harper is an evangelical Christian and not a R.C. Did anyone else notice this?

By: Crit_Reasoning

Crit_Reasoning — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:41:13 +0000

I'm fond of Wellsian pithiness too, but there are other styles of sarcasm out there. I found Mike R's approach quite effective, despite the lack of pith.

By: Jack Mitchell

Jack Mitchell — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:35:00 +0000

I think you are overstating the problem somewhat, Wayne.

By: Jack Mitchell

Jack Mitchell — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:34:20 +0000

It speaks to the larger question of whether Harper has any respect for our institutions or not. That is both an important and, in light of the FUFU and his chip-on-my-shoulder approach to government, a legitimate question. Also, sarcasm should be pithy.

By: austinso

austinso — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:33:11 +0000

As long as someone is baptized, then the host can be taken in the RCC. Some protestant denominations (presbyterian, charismatic, or evangelical) offer a host on "special" occasions…depends on the minister I suppose. Ultimately, it is a personal thing.

But…given that it's Harper, he probably didn't want to feel left out. Maybe he demanded beforehand…

By: John W.

John W. — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:23:32 +0000

That almost happened when the Conservative Party threatened the Governor General with demonstrations in the streets, and mass media negative advertising.