Queen costs us more than the Brits pay

Over the past 10 years, the Canadian cost of supporting the monarchy has more than doubled

by Katie Engelhart on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:00pm - 198 Comments

Queen costs us more than the Brits payRobert Finch has a favourite saying: “For the price of a cup of coffee, Canadians can enjoy the stability of the Crown.” By this, the chief operating officer of the Monarchist League of Canada means that the monarchy costs Canadians only $1.53 per capita each year, about the price of a large cup of joe at Tim Hortons. But in fact, Canadians are now paying more per capita to support the Queen than the British are.

According to the latest figures out of Buckingham Palace, while Canadians are shelling out $1.53 per capita, the British are only paying about $1.32. And the Monarchist League’s own numbers show the Canadian cost is skyrocketing. Over just the last 10 years, the per capita bill for supporting the monarchist framework— including expenses incurred by the royal clan on Canadian soil, as well as the cost of running the offices of the Governor General and our 10 provincial lieutenant-governors—has more than doubled.

Finch says that the climbing costs reflect the fact that the Queen’s reps are taking on more active roles, with heightened responsibility and more travel time. While that might be costing Canadians a few extra pennies, he stresses that the monarchy “is not a very expensive operation.” But Tom Freda, national director of Citizens for a Canadian Republic, is not so sure. “Ah, the Monarchists. They love to break it down to per capita and make it sound all nice and rosy,” he says. “But $40 million or $50 million [a year] sure sounds like a lot to me.” The Monarchist League supports that figure, estimating that about $50,147,000 was spent during the 2006-07 year.

The problem, Freda says, is that Canada effectively has two heads of state: the Queen and the Governor General, as well as a band of provincial reps. And that overlap creates “redundant and obsolete positions” that end up costing Canadian taxpayers big bucks. The Queen’s agents need to learn a lesson in frugality during these tough times, he argues, especially since most of the work done by the lieutenant-governors is already handled by deputy premiers and other officials. Freda says it is “exorbitant,” for example, that the Ontario lieutenant-governor employs nine staff members, and “shocking” that the B.C. office shells out piles of cash each year to run a 102-room official residence for its lieutenant-governor. As for the “highly irrelevant” Governor General? “The Governor General has literary awards and cuts ribbons and plants trees and travels to Nunavut and eats seal meat. But what else?”

Finch counters that the Crown’s stabilizing presence is worth the money. He accounts for Canadians’ more sizable bill with more mundane explanations: our smaller population, for instance. He also explains that Brits have the home court advantage when it comes to the monarchy, since the U.K. receives income tax from royal estates and we don’t. In the end, it’s a small price to pay, he says, to safeguard Canada’s democratic tradition.

Despite such arguments, it seems like Freda and his Canadian Republicans are winning in the court of public opinion. According to a Canada Day poll by Strategic Council, only 30 per cent of Canadians feel a connection to the Queen or Governor General. And 65 per cent think ties to the monarchy should be cut once the Queen dies.

Freda cites numbers like that as support for his group’s radical proposal to completely overhaul the system. He calls for the Governor General to be replaced by “a wholly Canadian institution”—an independent head of state, accountable only to Canadians. Sure, he admits, that would still cost money. “But Canadians wouldn’t mind spending on an institution that they can call their own.”

While $1.53 may not get you very far at Tim Hortons, Freda hopes the escalating cost of supporting the Queen will set the wheels of change in motion. It’s not even about the money, he says. “It’s the 21st century. If we’re going to be an independent country, we bloody well better act like it.”

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  • David Ennett

    I'm very happy to read this. I feel that the monarchy may have been necessary many years ago, but is now irrelevant to our society today. I remember arguing to my elderly political science instructor, that we had no need for the monarchy, and he shut me up by having the whole class stand up and sing "God save the Queen".

    It's symbolic, but it doesn't symbolize anything about Canada.

  • bbbbb

    the queen is the biggest joke in possibly the whole world..like who is she?? what does she do exactly?? but hey lets give her as much of our money as possible, throw in some tim hortons coffee while you're at it…

    • M.L.

      The jokes of the world are Victoria Beckham, Madonna, Britney, et al. Yet, somehow, they still have millions of dollars from people like you PAYING for their tawdry crap.

    • JOHN

      GOOD ONE

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/CairoRoy CairoRoy

    I can see you have a real understanding of canadian history. Anything decent in this country has roots to our british heritage. Great for your instructor!

    • monarchyfreecanada

      That instructor was a dick. What kind of teacher instructs students to prevent another student from expressing their constitutional right to free speech? And he taught political science?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/CairoRoy CairoRoy

    What's your IQ? 2? What a dummy.

  • Realist

    The only Queen's and King's we should have are the ones on the Playing cards,As for the British Monarcy She should stay in Brittyon and leave us alone she is irrelevant to us and the majority of Canadians want to be Autonomous….Just take a voteand lets get rid of the Queen….Shees milking us anyway….and what does she do for us besides coming along and filling her pockets….

    • Jayby

      Do you even understand what you are talking about?!?!? There would be no Canada today without the help and assistance of the Monarchy…. Does anyone remember that the first people to colonize Canada were British (Native Tribes were the first groups here but the British brought revolution)? Does anyone feel badly that now more than ever I feel like I'm being pushed out of my own country by immigrants? Too many people nowadays are leaving their own country to make Canada their home, but then want change it all up… If you don't like our Monarchy find another place to live… I want the monarchy to stay…. We need the monarchy otherwise we'll end up on a path of self destruction…. For all of you who don't believe in the Monarchy remember if it wasn't for the British we would be just another state in the United States of America….

      • JOHN

        UNITE STATES OF AMERICA THAT IS NOT SO BAD.

    • GMcGG

      Illogical, unfounded, inaccurate, and riddled with spelling and grammatical errors; this is a prime example of the sad state of our education system in this country, not only from the perspective of language, but also those of Canadian history and modern constitutional knowledge. Too many Canadians nowadays garner knowledge of their own country only from the mass media, which comes in only tiny drops amongst a tidal wave of American-centric information. The results are sad, but hardly surprising.

  • Vincent

    This country has spineless politicians. We can support our Military with that money spent in supporting the monarchy. The queen is rich enough to support herself and all her family combined. What about our poor, our health system, our seniors ?. I do not understand why we have to support the monarch. This is Canada. I do not see French Canada supporting France. I do not think Quebec would want to support the monarchy and would want to pay a $1.53 per capita each year. If we are supporting the monarchy, why did we have to buy out of commission British redundant lemon submarines ?.

    • JOHN

      YOU ARE SO RIGHT LEMON SUBS WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY,WE HAVE THE BIGGEST AND MOST POWERFULL MILITARY IN THE WORLD NEXT DOOR WHO WILL MESS WITH US .WE CAN CONCENTRATE ON THE ECONOMY NOT PURCHASING SUBMARINES THAT DON'T WORK,LET THE AMERICANS SPEND BILLIONS ON MILITARY .AND YES GET RID OF THE MONARCHY.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/CairoRoy CairoRoy

    Yep, we'd be in big trouble if not for the Yanks and the British. I'd rather kiss their butt than the damn Quebecois – which is what our federal government is doing by giving the French all the jobs in the Ottawa civil service.

  • Roger Cousineau

    Why do we insist in reminding ouselves of our place in the world as an ex-colony. No wonder we have trouble on a Canadian identity. Think of all the good we could do if this money was invested right here in Canada instead of keeping a forgetful part of our history alive.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

      Think of all the good we could do if this money was invested right here in Canada

      It is. Read the article.

  • Kristian Fry

    I would love nothing more then to see the whole thing of Queens and Kings gone. Finch says they help to safeguard Canada’s democratic tradition whats democratic about the Queen? Or the Govener General? Do we the people of this country get to vote on who the next GG will be? Do we get to have a say on who should be next in line for the throne? No we don't no one dose and if you ask me that sounds more like communism to me, its a system thats out of date and belongs in the past.

  • RodgerDodger

    Franco-Ontarian Perspective: we have an econo-army because we figured long ago that we could hide under America's skirt. We then realized that the savings afforded us a nifty national Health Plan. Never mind long live the Queen, long live America!
    Don't want to do away with Queen Elizabeth II. She's just as part of my heritage as the guards and bagpipes on parliament Hill on Remembrance morning. I love the Queen. If it's all the same to you, let's call it quits with the monarchy after Elizabeth II. I shuuuuudder to think that one day, Camilla and Chuck could or would be my Queen and King. ''Sacrebleu''

  • n ward

    I think the people who want rid of the monachy should move to the usa or france. If it wasnt for the monachy and ties with the uk through out history this great country would probably be new france or part of the usa. honour your canadian heritage dont just cast it aside as many of our british and canadian ancesters died for what we enjoy now

  • DieHardLeafsFan

    wow, think of what 40 or 50 million could do if put into education or health care. why do we need lt.goveners? what do they do exactly? why do they need to have staff if they dont do anything? and dont give me any bull about literary awards. ooo I got an award from someone who does nothing, dont i feel special. i must be nice to be paid lots of money for public appearences, and traveling. where can I sign up for that job.

    • http://twitter.com/nagaijin @nagaijin

      Unfortunately, thanks to provisions in the constitution, the monarchy would be nearly impossible to abolish. In order to reach agreement with the provinces for the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1981-82, Trudeau had to appease Ontario's Bill Davis by enshrining the Monarchy in the constitution. While most parts of the constitution can be amended by Parliament and the ratification of at least 7 provincial legislatures (representing at least 50% of the population), changing the role of the monarchy must be unanimous. If Ottawa and 9 provinces ever agreed (a miracle in itself) to abolish the monarchy and make the Governor-General a President like they have in, say, Germany or Ireland (which would basically amount to changing the stationary at Rideau Hall), Prince Edward Island could veto the whole thing if it felt like it.
      We're stuck with the Windsors for a long time to come. Thanks a lot, Bill Davis!

  • Kathleen Cantin

    I understand the Queen is one of the richest individuals in tthe world, so let her pay for her own expenses, Who needs a Queen,
    I was a Brit 50ys ago.

    • Andrew (not P or C)

      You understand incorrectly.

  • free at last?

    We needed Monarchs when we were in the Middle Ages.
    It's way overdue for getting rid of "Reigning over us" just because the Person was born into the right family.
    Look at the world – the great majority has moved on – right into the 21st century. When will man ever be free when he has to bow before another man?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

      No one has to bow before anyone. In certain cases, it's customary to, and I can think of very few people who might be as deserving of the honour of a respectful bow than Her Majesty, who has devoted more than half a century to serving the Commonwealth realms–a job that she never asked for, that she watched kill her father, but that she has always performed with the utmost dignity and respect.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

        Don't you think that is putting it on a bit thick? It killed her father? His lung cancer, I suppose, was caused the his frequent trips to the coal mines to encourage the workers. Other than fulfilling her rather pleasant tasks with a quiet dignity, what has Elizabeth ever contributed, especially in light of the privilege, favours and fortunes bestowed upon her?

    • GMcGG

      Never; without anarchy, that is. And, speaking of: have you ever taken a moment to look at the majority of 21st century republics? Or is it just one and its myths that you're in love with?

  • gaslad

    I like the monarchy- long may it last.

    It's cost is miniscule, on a per capita basis, and it provides stability. The Queen is a figurehead, no more. Does anyone really believe she dictates our poltical course? Do we really want to be a republic (like the USA)?

    As I understand it, all elected officials swear an oath of allegiance to the crown. Given this oath, how could they possibly sever the ties?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

      Members of Parliament swear an oath to the Queen because she is the living symbol of the Canadian system of government, which is a democratic system in which elected representatives come together to advance their views how the country should be run. That their views will sometimes be in favour of changing fundamental aspects of the system, even the Crown itself, in no way conflicts with their oath, so long as they are operating within the system in good faith. This is one of the many fantastic features of the Canadian monarchy.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

        Those are ironies of Canadian monarchy. They are features of Canada.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

          They are features of the Canadian system of government, which is a monarchy. It is only ironic if your view of monarchy is unduly influenced by old fairy tales, and not so much by, um, the actual history of our monarchy.

  • JIMMEE

    A Head of State separate from the Head of Gov't is vital to protect from the PM trying to become a dictator. Who better but the Queen to be Head of State as someone who has no personal interests in Canada to prevent a conflict of interests. The Gov't has to answer to the voter not to the Head of State. If the Head of State is called on to rule on a dispute, the Head must refer to the constitution not personal interests. Canada should invite Prince Harry to be Governor General so we would have a real Monarch. Being Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces he can be involved with Canadian Forces around the world. Somebody has to do the job and get paid for it, why not a real Royal ? The Governor General is just a ceremonial position with little say in governing the country.

  • JIMMEE

    An after thought— With Prince Harry as Governor General, he could marry a Quebecois lass and possibly end the thousand year old French-English War that the Quebecer separatists have been fighting. Long Live our New King and Queen ! ! EH ! !

  • PeterS

    I do not advocate doing away with the monarchyl, and actually feel that we should remain part of the commonwealth. However, having eleven ceremonial positions costing $50 million is a bit over the top. The Governor General and ten Lieutenant Governors postions are an expense that is wasted on an anachronistic system that should be moderized. If the Queen wants to keep her vice-regal representatives here in Canada, maybe she should pay for them. Or, given todays technologies, why not have the Queen read the speach from the throne via closed circuit live satalite TV. Or, for that matter, just send Chuck or one of the boys over to do it. All of the other ceremonial stuff can be done by appropriate Canadian dignatories.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Toonie Toonie

    Time for Canada to grow up and dump the Monarchy – keep the symbols on the coin for a period but we really DO NOT need a Gov General and all the other puff that goes along with her trips home and to France.

    • GMcGG

      Of course we don't!… Er… Why don't we, again?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

    The headline of this article is extraordinarily misleading. These are not the costs of "the Queen", but rather the costs of having a head of state who is not the head of government (which is extraordinarily important, especially in a parliamentary system), and the costs of having a federal system (as opposed to the British unitary system). These costs would not go away in the unfortunate event that we abandoned the monarchy, and either way it's money very well spent.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

      This is a bit too simplistic. These institution inherited a bloated sense of self and were designed to promote allegiance to the monarch and to the country. They could easily be pared down and made more legitimate. I think the need for LGs has passed. I can't imagine any detrimental effect to removing them, and like Rick Mercer, having a massive residence and estate in downtown Ottawa and others throughout the country is extremely wasteful.

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

      This is a bit too simplistic. These institution inherited a bloated sense of self and were designed to promote allegiance to the monarch and to the country. They could easily be pared down and made more legitimate. I think the need for LGs has passed. I can't imagine any detrimental effect to removing them, and like Rick Mercer, having a massive residence and estate in downtown Ottawa and others throughout the country is extremely wasteful. Make them into public parks.

      • GMcGG

        Good grief; you really have no idea what you're talking about! For 147 years, the provinces have fought against federal intrusion in their jurisdictions, and yet, now, suddenly you know that they're going to just hand over their sovereignty to Ottawa; have your homeless president sign provincial bills into law? Ha!

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

          right on cue, bloated sense of self. budda-bing

          • GMcGG

            And more predictable personal attacks to cover the attacker's lack of fact and logic! :D

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

            Hilarious how someone who makes racist comments about angry Irishmen gets so indignant about a little name-calling.

          • GMcGG

            How could I be indignant when I find your frothing and gurgling so amusing! You have nothing to back yourself up, you can't refute my points, and now you're pouty and embarassed. But don't worry; I've seen it all before: you've been through denial, you're now in the anger stage, and next will come acceptance. I'll help you through it.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

            Come now, boys. At least when I attack people, I make it funny.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

            You are right Stephen, a lighter tone is called for.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

            In that spirit, I would like to offer the following conspiracy theory. GM is actually an anti-monarchist posing as fixated monarchist in order to expose the weaknesses in that position.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

        The point is that the only way to eliminate the costs of having a separate head of state is to cease having a separate head of state. Yes, those costs can be adjusted, whether we're a monarchy or not, but they won't go away. And since they could easily be reduced without losing the monarchy and they could easily be much higher if we did, using these costs as an argument against the monarchy is disingenuous.

        Also, I think you owe an apology to Rick Mercer, who I'm quite sure is not "extremely wasteful".

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

          I'm not sure where I claimed Rick Mercer was extremely wasteful. I claimed that he asserted that having a massive estate for HRM in downtown Ottawa was extremely wasteful. As posted elsewhere:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5GZIDnMzZQ

  • JFD

    Not to mention we are supporting a sectarian institution. Being or marrying a Catholic explicitly and automatically excludes ascension to the throne. How can anyone possibly defend that in a head of state for all?

  • P. Williams

    I love the Queen but when she passes that should end our relationship with the Monarchy. There is NO WAY I will ever worship Charles and his Mistress – then his wife. They are both responsible for Diana's death and she was the "real thing" – she would have made an amazing Queen. I will NEVER understand how and why Camilla was finally accepted by the Queen. The Queen sure has lowered her standards of moral decency – the way she approves of her whole family sleeping and living together before marriage. WHAT and WHO to respect???

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Withany Withany

    1. Get over it – we're always got to have a Head of State who does the jobs that busy politicians can't be bothered with (like meeting with visiting minor dignataries who don't vote here, so why bother?) or have no time for (Arts awards? I don't artists and they don't like me anyway). And that person is the GG (or more provincially, the LGs).

    2. If the PM screws up royally (pardon the pun) someone has to say "no" — they didn't have anyone to say that in the US, so they got Dubyah and a host of others who couldn't be bothered to read the small print on the US Constitution. And the one who says "no" here is the GG. Even if someone is sleeping at the counter, the store is a lot safer than not bothering with anyone there.

    Bottom line: if you have a system where you elect your Head of State, the cost will be greater and you'll regret it far more frequently.

    • Julie

      if you have a system where you elect your Head of State, the cost will be greater and you'll regret it far more frequently.

      WhyÉ Who sets the ruels for these things – or do we just follow the U.S.`s lead because we`re neighbours, or because someone tells us it`s so…..
      Just because a person is born into a wealthy family who have had power for many, many years does not mean they are the best person to be a head of state – or that we even need one. It could be a volunteer position by an elected leaders wife, girlfriend or brother. Period.

      • GMcGG

        Just because a person gets voted in doesn't mean they're the best person to be a head of state, either; in fact, someone who's been raised from birth to fill the post will make a decent head of state more often than someone trained otherwise and ran for the office for personal gain.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

          Spurious argument, it is not the Queen who makes such decisions in Canada, it is the GG.

          • GMcGG

            Is the Queen not still the head of state, Ed? That is what we're talking about; not her representatives.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Withany Withany

    1. Get over it – we're always got to have a Head of State who does the jobs that busy politicians can't be bothered with (like meeting with visiting minor dignataries who don't vote here, so why bother?) or have no time for (Arts awards? I don't artists and they don't like me anyway). And that person is the GG (or more provincially, the LGs).

    2. If the PM screws up royally (pardon the pun) someone has to say "no" — they didn't have anyone to say that in the US, so they got Dubyah and a host of others who couldn't be bothered to read the small print on the US Constitution. And the one who says "no" here is the GG. Even if someone is sleeping at the counter, the store is a lot safer than not bothering with anyone there.

    Bottom line: if you have a system where you elect your Head of State, the cost will be greater and you'll regret it far more frequently.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Withany Withany

    Oh yeah — cost.

    If you put the budgets (ceremonial and other relevant expenses) of the GG, the LGs and — yes — the PM together and multiplied it by 10, how many decimals do you suppose we'd be short of what the US spends merely on their Prensident?

    As far as the Queen is concerned, I don't believe she — personally — costs us a penny, and we get to use her picture on our coins and stamps for free — just think, if we had been using the self-proclaimed "King of Pop" instead, we'd even now be paying (again, pardon the pun) royalties, but to the estate of the late Jocko.

    • Julie

      I don't believe she — personally — costs us a penny
      Um, yeah – she does – As for the picture on the money – big deal. There are other prictures on our money too, why would we need King of Pop or any other entertainer's picture on money – this is a dumb statement that has absolutely no relevance to this topic. Even in Britian, people are sick of the monarchy & the class distiction & social discrimination it promotes.
      Because the U.S. spends $$$$ on their presidents we should tooÉ Look at the difference in population between Canada & the U.S. & the number of American companies that own subsidiaries in Canada.
      Wake up & think for yourself.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/NotStephen Not Stephen Colbert

        Um, yeah – she does

        Well argued. Er, wait: not "well"… and not "argued"… Where was I, again?

        Because the U.S. spends $$$$ on their presidents we should tooÉ Look at the difference in population between Canada & the U.S. & the number of American companies that own subsidiaries in Canada.

        Um… what?

        • JFD

          And you are ok with the fact our head of state is barred from being or marrying a Catholic?

          • GMcGG

            What does that have to do with the discussion?

          • JFD

            I think its a very important point.
            I have a problem with people being excluded from being head of state based solely on their religion. That is called sectarian discrimination and has no place in modern Canada.
            Do you think it is appropriate for Catholics to be excluded from the position of head of state of Canada?

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