Categories: Capital Read, Inside the Queensway

Scrum Theatre: Can you hear the gratitude gushing forth?

by kadyomalley on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:27pm - 68 Comments

James Moore, speaking outside the House after Question Period on the NDP decision to support — at least tentatively — the government’s employment insurance reforms:

Question: Is it something you’re looking forward to?

Hon. James Moore: We just govern and the NDP can make their own decisions for themselves.

Question: But do you like the decision they’ve made?

Hon. James Moore: I like that our policy is passing and we’ll govern and other parties can make their own decisions for themselves.

Question: So it’s good to be on life – you know, your ticker, it’s sort of like you’re in the ICU and you keep going for another day.

Hon. James Moore: It’s a minority parliament so you have to govern responsibly. We put forward legislation that we think reasonable people should support. Our EI reforms are what we think is in the best interest of Canada and if other members of parliament, regardless of party, vote for it, they vote for it.

Question: When do the NDP get to see (inaudible)?

Hon. James Moore: Soon. Minister Finley will let you know.

Tags: Jack Layton, James Moore, NDP, surely the 'thanks jack' is implicit

More by kadyomalley

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

You just have to picture James Moore jumping up and down as he says this.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Tceh Tceh

James does indeed sound very excited about the new PC-NDP-Bloc Coalition. And Steve is living the dream of every Conservative PM by bending over and planting a big reform kiss on Jack's forehead. According to the polls Canadians like watching Conservatives implement kowtow to their coalition partners. Jack can feel the love tonight.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Tceh Tceh

James does indeed sound very excited about the new PC-NDP-Bloc Coalition. And Steve is living the dream of every Conservative PM by bending over and planting a big reform kiss on Jack's forehead. According to the polls Canadians like watching Conservatives kowtow to their coalition partners. Jack can feel the love tonight.

interestedPEIvoter

Doesn't sound like there's much gratitude at all.

"I like that our policy is passing and we’ll govern and other parties can make their own decisions for themselves."

Can't they even say thank you? After all, they may just want this dinner guest to return sometime soon.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Actually.. they can't — because that'll open themselves up to accusations of working with the socialists.

The dangers of bridge burning, it seems.
anonymoose

I think that the NDP has WAAAAY more to lose if they go to the polls. If I were the Conservatives, I would be saying exactly the same thing…"if they like it, fine."

http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

A thank you would be nice … but only if they really, really meant it.

I would hate to see the spirit of authenticity which surrounds Parliament,
and those who cover it , lapse into something without meaning.

Julieanne

Why should they thank the NDP for finally doing their job?

even flow

So their job is to only support the government? Interesting perspective.
Julieanne

Their job is to read the motions and vote in the way that they think best serves Canadians. They haven't done that for years, preferring to act like big babies that won't bother to read budgets, crime legislation, etc.
Partisan nonpartisan

I will bet you $1 billion dollars that more – as an absolute number, not a percentage – NDP MPs have read the crime legislation than Tory MPs.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

You're on. Show me proof of your rather incredible claim that more NDP MP's have read the crime bill than have Tory MP's, and I'll give you a billion dollars.

http://intensedebate.com/people/macphear macphear

Actually it does eerily look like an minority government that is functioning…I would have said working but…not so much of that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Pretty much my sentiments, too. For a guy who's often accused of not making minority parliament work, Harper's actually gotten a lot passed and, wait for it, made minority parliament work.

As much as people like to focus on Harper's tactics, they seem to get results. Both the Liberals and NDP like to do a lot of huffing and puffing on the opposition benches, then retreat mightily when required to back up their words with action.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

It’s a minority parliament so you have to govern responsibly.

Ummmm…

sooooo…

and they would act with a majority government, howt?
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

It’s a minority parliament so you have to govern responsibly.

Ummmm…

sooooo…

and they would act with a majority government, how?
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

It’s a minority parliament so you have to govern responsibly.

Ummmm…

sooooo…

they would act with a majority government, how?

Julieanne

Let the wild rumpus start!!!!

jarrid

Paul Martin re-wrote his budget to keep Layton happy, adding billions in spending. Martin was ready to anything to stay in power.

Stephen Harper is prepared to listen to reasonable proposals from the opposition. He isn't ready to do anything to stay in power.

Unlike Martin, Harper isn't scared to face the electorate. He's a principled politician who knows where he stands. He's leading, and Canadians have noticed and it's showing in terms of support.

John

You visit PMSH in his dreams then?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

.. though, in this case, the NDP was likely not consulted at all. They are just bending over to avoid an election.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

eh, bending over backwards…right? right? please?
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

uh, bending over backwards…right? right? please?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

well, the west coast is a long sight off from Ottawa, from here it looks like… well, unseemly.

http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

uh, bending over backwards…right? right? please?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Or rather, he's aware that so long as the Reformists and Conservatives present a united front and the Liberals and NDP jockey for the same seats, theres very little he needs to offer to stay in power.

Or are you suggesting that making every issue a confidence vote during the Dion period was his way of "listening to reasonable proposals"?
http://twitter.com/bgrice @bgrice

Err, didn't Harper re-write his Budget in January, adding billions upon billions in spending just to stay in power? Ya, I'm pretty sure he did that, right after he prorouged parliament to stay in power.

Good try though.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Oddly enough I think the Conservatives are actually winning the battle here. Last December the public would have viewed them as at least partly (if not mostly) responsible for an election had one been called. This time around they're nurturing the image of a party that wants to govern without provoking an election. They've adapted.

Once Ignatieff came out with his declaration of intent to torpedo any Conservative legislation, I thought Harper would play it by allowing Parliament to fall after having the Liberals vote against at least one popular bill. Perhaps Harper is taking the opposite tack: allowing Parliament to proceed with the Liberals unable to do anything about it. As time passes and the sky doesn't fall (or, even better, if things actually improve) then Ignatieff's desire for an election will stand out as unnecessary and opportunistic.

This tells us two things:
(1) Harper is in the process of winning the exchange and going up a knight for a pawn. He gains gravitas while losing an iffy chance at an immediate majority. Well played.
(2) Harper must believe that the economic situation will either get better, or at least that it won't get worse. That's encouraging news. Anything else works to Ignatieff's advantage.

Who says Canadian politics is never interesting?
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Oddly enough I think the Conservatives may actually be winning the battle here. Last December the public would have viewed them as at least partly (if not mostly) responsible for an election had one been called. This time around they're nurturing the image of a party that wants to govern without provoking an election. They've adapted.

Once Ignatieff came out with his declaration of intent to torpedo any Conservative legislation, I thought Harper would play it by allowing Parliament to fall after having the Liberals vote against at least one popular bill. Perhaps Harper is taking the opposite tack: allowing Parliament to proceed with the Liberals unable to do anything about it. As time passes and the sky doesn't fall (or, even better, if things actually improve) then Ignatieff's desire for an election will stand out as unnecessary and opportunistic.

This tells us two things:
(1) Harper is in the process of winning the exchange and going up a knight for a pawn. He gains gravitas while losing an iffy chance at an immediate majority. Well played.
(2) Harper must believe that the economic situation will either get better, or at least that it won't get worse. That's encouraging news. Anything else works to Ignatieff's advantage.

Who says Canadian politics is never interesting?

Neil from Calgary

The really tough and delicate part about all of this is that, in this post-coalition reality, Harper has to keep his government functioning without making it seem like he's in bed with the very parties he decried for having bad ideas on the economy. At the same time, he has to keep Ignatieff in his own corner so that Canadians can look to Harper as being reasonable and look to Ignatieff as recklessly provocative. To many it would look like an attempt to switch roles from about 1 year ago.

But if Harper can pull it off for another few months he'll have his Conservative Senate so he can become even less dependent on the Liberals in getting his legislation passed. If we don't have an election in the next two months we might not have an election in the next two years, since the economy should be getting out the red, and into the black in the next 6 months.

If I were Ignatieff, I might be better off holding an election until I have the plan and the money, and the running deficits in the federal books before forcing an election. Think of it this way, if the economy improves in two years, but isn't up to its normal pace, while Canada is in the middle of its deficit mess, it would be a perfect time to pull the trigger and not be seen as irresponsible.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Nice analysis, but I'll disagree that Canadians would have blamed Harper for an election last December. As much as he provoked the opposition, I think Canadians preferred an election over a coalition coup (a symbolic coup, of course). And that says something, given how much we know Canadians detest elections at all times and forever. lol

Blaze

So with that logic, it sounds like Canadians would love a permanent solution, like say a totalitarian government? lol!

http://intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

Nice spin.
But Iggy just swapped places with Jack (ie the Harper-fatal-embrace) without triggering an election!
Houdini-like eh?

Iggy (and Andrew Cone) won this round hands down!
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

Nice spin.
But Iggy just swapped places with Jack (ie the Harper-fatal-embrace) without triggering an election!
Houdini-like eh?

Iggy (unlike Dion) never said he controlled the timing of the election. He just yanked support from an unworthy "partner".

Iggy (and Andrew Cone) won this round hands down!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I agree that Iggy gained some well-needed tactical credibility with the maneuver, but it did come at a cost:

a) He's now forced to vote against every matter of confidence for the foreseeable future. I can see the Tory attack ads now: "Visitor Ignatieff voted against the home tax reno, etc, etc…."

b) Iggy started laying out his "Big Canada" vision before an election, which is probably sooner than he liked. So, he now has to fill in some of those blanks, thus giving the Tories more bullseyes to shoot at.

And, for the record, I've repeated these points elsewhere. Thank you.

Calgary Junkie

I've been saying (a) too. I think Duceppe is voting for the W&M motion, partly because he realizes that Bloc MPs would be vulnerable to the same kind of attack from the Tories.

There's another downside for the Libs, they just spent $2 million or so on tv ads, preparing for an election that looks like it will be delayed to March at least. The money isn't totally wasted of course, seeing as they got out a positive portrayal of Iggy. But how many times do the Libs want to go through this kind of scenario–spend money on an election that gets delayed ?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

There are three considerations that a lot of the pundits are not giving enough consideration to, but that Harper almost certainly is. First, the longer the Conservatives govern, the more Ignatieff looks like a politician – though in light of the Dion fiasco and recent polls, I guess the only thing people want in government less than politicians, are intellectuals. Second, the longer the Conservatives govern, the longer the Conservatives govern – kind of obvious, but overlooked too often. Third, the longer the Conservatives govern, the better the economy is likely to get (point 2 above). On track record, Harper seems to have little problem with the idea of operating with a minority mandate until circumstances are either highly favourable or no longer tenable.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

The Polls are too used by each party in shaping policy. June Press Conference 4 ultimatiums, most people excluding Liberal partisans agreed it was a significant tactical mistake.
In September Iggy declared again he would withdraw any continued support in keeping the Government afloat. His new position was based on priniciple ( not the internal Poll, $ 6 million, 70,000 new member added to the Liberal Party).

The error in this Revised Position (Target-Bullseye) has forced Michael to put meat on the bones for Policy Alternatives to Canadian voters for consideration of forming the next government. Michael gave the NDP/Bloc the camera (ball).

What is the track record on his putting meat on those bones? What Policy has he introduced regarding the EI, Environment, Deficit, Foreign Policy, Economy? The Liberals do not own a single File or ballot question. (Check the polls-dont blame the messenger).

Wait and See was his statement regarding the Economy and Deficit.
Foreign Policy, the CPC are responsible for all the problems today. In 2005 in Ireland his speech was critical of Canada.
Environment, the father of carbon tax will NOT release any specific details.

His new revised position to become the next government requires he provides Alternatives to the voters. Those alternatives must be realistic and detailed. They refuse to be more specific and detailed citing Greenshift experience.

How effective will the message be if they refuse to provide a detailed specific plan that is an alternative to the current government? The media have been asking for that question for months.

Will the CPC outspend the Liberals and undermine the Trust, Vision, Competent perception through TV ads like they did too Dion?

How will the Liberals defend the financial advantage of the CPC to outspend ALL opposition parties combined?

OBAMA outspent McCain and outraised the Republican Party.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I tend to agree with an opposition strategy that involves holding back on policy proposals for as long as possible. Otherwise, you give the government of the day one of two things: an easy target to shoot at, or a chance to steal the best ideas. For example, anyone want to start a pool on when Harper finally decides to visit China? My guess is that he now does it before Iggy.

Keep the focus on the government and their performance, and lack of it. etc.

However, what Iggy's done is reveal what some of his policy direction will already by. So, he's already set expectations for himself, and a lot of his own supporters want to see him start filling in the blanks. It will get increasingly difficult for him to keep saying "wait and see" every time someone asks how "we can do better."

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

That strategy would only make sense if you have NO hope in providing an alternative government. The NDP,Green and Bloc do not have to provide any real detail because they are not the trying to convince voters they are the government in waiting.
The Liberals NEED to rebuild up credibility, trust and competence in the minds of voters. (For Liberals they have not lost any).
The majority are voters are not voting for the Liberal Party. The anatomy of The Liberal Defeat detail the breakdown and loss of several key areas. Changing a leader is not going to fix their problem. Blaming the current leader and the CPC for being a bully with a hidden agenda filled with reformers who are racist, homophobic, hate women did not work for Paul Martin. Warren Kinsella reminded the Liberals in an email that Harper is no longer scary to Canadians.

The elections and Polls show the opposite.

The Liberal Party has serious issues to overcome in rebuilding their party, but they prefer to spend their energy on Hidden Agenda, CPC have damaged our Global reputation, demanding apologies, resignations by chasing tasteless jokes, unsexy comments, private conversation, plagerisim and mean advertising campaigns.

I was never voted for PC's. The Liberals threw out my MP over his vote against the GST. I became an independent and never returned to the Liberals.The Rat Pack is dead and now we have a Liberal party that issues report cards, prohabation and chases wafers. This is not the party of my parents.

Julieanne

The Tories are supposed to get on their knees and kiss the opposition's feet because they have finally decided to stop acting like petulant brats and do their job?
Andrew (not P or C)

No. I think people wouldn't mind it if the Tories didn't act like belligerent jerks.

Neil from Calgary

Don't tell that to the "Entourage" PAC.
Julieanne

Not kissing someone's butt after they've screwed you over again and again is belligerent?
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Can you explain their polling and election victories? Are you projecting your own concerns?

Are Canadian voters are not buying the smears by the opposition labelling the CPC as "belligerent jerks"?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Agreed, except on point 2. I think, deep down under all the pragmatic emptiness, the Conservatives actually do want to accomplish a few real changes. They can't do them in a minority situation, so it works to their disadvantage to waste so much time in one.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Terrific. I'm desperately trying to fend off images of Jack Layton in unseemly</> positions as he tries to avoid an election. And I do mean desperately.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Terrific. I'm desperately trying to fend off images of Jack Layton in unseemly positions as he tries to avoid an election. And I do mean desperately.
http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

Terrific. I'm desperately trying to fend off images of Jack Layton assuming unseemly positions as he tries to avoid an election. And I do mean desperately.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

"Gratitude"

This would imply that the NDP was actually doing something for the CPC, in the CPC's best interests.

Faux expressions of 'gratitude" would be unseemly.

In other words, the CPC is keeping it real.
Seriously?

To be honest, I think the CPC was wanting an election. How do you thank someone for giving you a gift that you don't want?

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

Typically you regift it at the first opportunity…but this might be a hard gift to do that with.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

I doubt if Ignatieff has done any home renos lately so he probably doesn't realize how much us regular folk are worried it might disappear. What I don't understand is how the Liberals can vote for the budget, but against the budget implementation bll. It looks foolish. They should have waited until after this bill to draw their line in the sand, etc. Iggy still has things to learn about timing.

an online reader

" I doubt if Ignatieff has done any home renos lately "

I can picture harper riding a wild stallion that is kicking and bucking while he waves his 10 gallon hat . ( hair stuck to his head ) I can picture harper holding a power finishing nail gun half way up the wall as if he is preparing to fasten a picture frame ? I seen harper holding a childs hockey stick backwards in last years Calgary Xmas pics . Iggy not so much .

an online reader

I could sit with harper over a double double and tidbits to discuss NASCAR or crack some brews after pick-up hockey . Iggy not so much .

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

I don't think the Home Reno credit is applicable for his homes in the US or France.
http://intensedebate.com/people/geogine geo

I heard Harper say, "Anyone with a wife will be doing renovations this summer." Women across Canada groaned at that one.

I'd be interested in seeing what in the way of home reno's he accomplished these past few months… with his own hands. Taxpayer reno's on the residence does not count. All he would do is aggravate the trades trying to do the job right the first time.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

I heard Harper say, "Anyone with a wife will be doing renovations this summer." Women across Canada groaned at that one.

Say what?

http://intensedebate.com/people/geogine geo

When Harper announced the Home Reno Credit he offered up, "Anyone with a wife will be doing renovations this summer."

Implications being that wives will nag their hubbys to play Mr. Fixit (because of course, the HR credit is such a great deal too). Women cannot manage these things without a husband?

I can hardly wait to see this "stimulous package" results.

I wonder if Harper put this out as a ploy to gain women's votes? He is not doing so well within that demographic, never has. If so, it's not going to make any difference at all. It may actually hurt.

petetong83

When is macleans.ca going to get its hands on (and obviously release) Rahim's mug shot!

If you make a trip out to the GTA to live-blog the court appearance I will personally buy you a red bull.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Why would a story about a former MP be of so much interest to you?
http://intensedebate.com/people/LoyalSubject LoyalSubject

This is called "making Parliament work for all Canadians". We should all be grateful!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Wow, you've got a negative red number on your reputation score with an exclamation point. I can only dream!

http://intensedebate.com/people/LoyalSubject LoyalSubject

Badge of honour!

centristb

Moore is right, I mean what else can he say?
me dere robert

http://thechronicleherald.ca/toons/Brucex17.jpg
http://twitter.com/bgrice @bgrice

Harper could have introduced this ways and means motion at any time after the budget was passed. He held it off the order papers until it could be used to the best political advantage. Blaming Ignatieff for Harper's political games is a very typical Conservative misdirection technique. The Liberal Party has already promised that the tax credit is safe, no matter if we have an election or not.

Perhaps an Election wouldn’t be necessary if Prime Minister Harper and his Government would stop lying to Canadians for political advantage.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

It is normal practice for a government (Liberal or Conservative) to introduce the budget implementation bill in the fall session as it takes a few months for departmental officials to draft the technical details of new measures announced in a budget. This was the case when the Liberals were in office and remains the case today. It has nothing to do with partisan games as you describe them.