Canadian democracy is broken

But how to fix it? Columnists Andrew Coyne and Paul Wells debate the question.

by Andrew Coyne and Paul Wells on Friday, September 18, 2009 2:00pm - 80 Comments

AC: You’re right about that. But connect the dots: Ottawa is brain-dead, because debate, the lifeblood of ideas, has been outlawed—as a glance at question period will confirm. Debate is dead because MPs have become mere appendages of their parties, which is to say of party leaders. So we start running into some of those systemic questions you’d prefer to avoid.

The irrelevance of Parliament and the impotence of the individual MP are both, I think, rooted in the decline of the political parties as democratic institutions. I’ve long been a convert to the idea that the rot set in when parties began choosing their leaders by national conventions, rather than by the parliamentary caucus. Emboldened by this mandate, leaders could lord it over MPs without fear of reprisals.

Maybe we aren’t ready to have MPs choose party leaders. But must we have leaders choosing MPs? I mentioned the appointed Senate—but the Commons is effectively appointed as well, inasmuch as candidates are required to have their nomination papers signed by the party leader.

So one part of reviving national politics is restoring local democracy. But we can’t just yet, because local democracy is a joke. In no other advanced democracy that I am aware of are nominations decided by who can raffle off the most party memberships, or stack meetings with the most instant members.

Isn’t this just an internal party matter? Aren’t parties private entities? So are corporations. I don’t see anyone saying there should be no laws governing how shareholder voters are run. Should we impose any less obligations on the organizations that seek the power to rule us?

PW: Ah. So the Prime Minister can act like a martinet, even in a minority, because the parliamentary alternative—a coalition—has dubious legitimacy, thanks to the overrepresented Bloc. And because alternatives in his own party—potential new leaders—can’t get oxygen because of leadership-selection rules. Are those the dots you mentioned?

Like you, I buy historian Christopher Moore’s argument that MPs should select their leaders. There’ll be people who call that “undemocratic,” so how about this: MPs should at least be able to start a leadership race, by declaring in some kind of qualified majority vote that they’ve had enough of any current leader.

The problem with all of this, of course, is that the one person in Canada with the least interest in changing the system is, perpetually, whoever rode it most recently to 24 Sussex. But it helps to admit you have a problem, and that’s where we’ll begin when we meet in Toronto on Sept. 23. I think it’ll be fun.

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  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

    Well, I think there was some very good content, but it could have been far better. Perhaps if they had started by each identifying what they considered to be 'broken' with our democracy, it would have been more productive.

    Report card on participants
    Goldenberg – A – Nearly everything he said was intelligent and on point, original thought, only one blatantly partisan comment
    Broadbent – B – mostly excellent contributions moved the PR debate along some, only a couple blatantly partisan comments
    Anderson – B – all very intelligent and on point, no real partisan content
    Wells – (B-) – mostly intelligent but didnt really advance the discussion as much as he could have
    Nanos – C – say something of value or interest please
    Coyne- C – uninspired, I was disappointed, contributed little, mostly obvious platitudes being offered
    Saul – D – why was he even there? just promoting his own agenda, had almost no relevance to the discussion

    Biggest disappointment – no discussion on the problem of party discipline, or examining separation of executive and legislative branches of government.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

    Just passed up a couple hours sleep to watch the re-run on CPAC overnight. Yes, I am that crazy. Mr. Saul need not be invited back for future events, but all the others had interesting things to say. As much as I appreciate the "let the people speak" element of the last half hour, perhaps "comment cards" could be submitted, and filtered, so that the moderator could pick and choose from among the submissions? There is always the trouble of those who most like the sound of their voice elbowing others aside to be first at the mike.

    All in all, a very interesting discussion and, I think, a successful experiment. Well done.

    But for heaven's sake, Mr. Coyne, stop trying to MAKE me vote. I've never missed one, and I won't, but please don't kill individual freedom a little more AND dilute the votes of those who care.

  • Iccyh

    I flew out from Edmonton to be in the audience for this, and I took fairly good notes, but the charger for my laptop is back in Edmonton and my laptop battery is almost dead so I can’t really access them right now; I’ll give a more complete reply later.

    However, MP independence was one of the first things that Rick Anderson brought up, the lack of free votes and the like *was* specifically addressed by Coyne and Anderson.

    Anyway, I completely disagree with those grades. Wells and Coyne were about as good as thee could have been considering that they had already outlined most everything they wanted to say either in the magazine or in their blogs previously; there weren’t many surprises and they did a solid job of keeping discussion moving. Goldenberg was probably the least well-spoken and honestly, I found his main contribution to be as a reminder that the major parties don’t have a real interest in systemic reform (Goldenberg didn’t even agree with the premise, that democracy was broken in Canada). Saul was interesting in that be was the only person on the stage who wasn’t directly involved with one of the parties or the media; his perspective was markedly different than everyone else on the stage and that was useful in and of itself. He certainly wasn’t always strong or clear with the message he was trying to deliver (his healthcare ramble is a good example, it was off on a tangent and couldn’t really be examined in any way) but his points about ideas in politics were very relevant.

    Personally, I was most impressed by Anderson; he did a very solid job of outlining the conservative case for electoral reform. I wasn’t particularly surprised by anything specific that he said as electoral reform was indeed part of the Reform platform previously and his reply to Coyne’s question on MP independence missed the point, but he clearly illustrated that reform is an issue across the political spectrum.

    My biggest complaint was that while there was a lot of discussion of issues and possible solutions, there was little discussion about how to move these proposals forward. The last audience question was illustrative: the answer from Goldenberg was “social networking” (which is nice, but isn’t going to do a damn thing to engage parties or the government since that’s not their usual channel for communication) while Saul’s answers was “contact your MP”, which is likely what the gentleman had already been doing on a regular basis and had been completely stonewalled. It was especially ironic considering that there was a fair amount of discussion about the lack of MP independence.

    Without some clear ways to move forward on what was discussed, the whole exercise is of limited use. I am quote happy that we’re even having this discussion and am very impressed and thankful that Maclean’s is taking this seriously and attempting to do something to improve what they can (media coverage), but without some way to constructively engage people with political power and influence, we’re going to be waiting a long while for reform on any of the issues raised.

    • http://www.learnthefacts.ca Jordan Axani

      Dear Lccyh,

      That’s some serious dedication to come from Edmonton for the panel.

      I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was let down by the answers for how to proceed. I don’t know if I was waiting for the curtain to be drawn up, and for Wayne Gretzky to roll out on a giant cake and make the announcement of a new political party or what. But I left feeling like I wish more thought was put into the ‘what’s next’ question. Keeping the conversation going, as Coyne and Wells said, is the first part. But the other responses were ridiculous. “Social networking because that’s what youth are doing that we aren’t.” Really?

      I think the columnists are correct. The only way to start anything is by talking about it. The message is a good one and I hope it can catch on virally. But I stand to be corrected.

      Talk to your loved ones. That’ll be a good start.

      Safe trip home.

      - Jordan

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hellomike hellomike

      I completely agree with pretty much every single point here. It was a great discussion and it made me feel good about the fact that intelligent people (even if they are a bunch of old (or at least middling) white men, hah) are discussing these things, I felt like I was participating (sort of) in something good, but that last question was pretty revealing in a way and I hadn't considered it until reading this comment.

      It is hard to feel like an "empowered citizen"… but all we can do is participate in "the conversation" and hope that the consensus forms with enough weight behind it to bring it to fruition.

      Anyway. I look forward to the next time this happen, assuming it does.

  • http://zerzetzen.wikispaces.com Roderick Russell

    Mr. Andrew Coyne under the headline “Canadian democracy is broken” correctly states “if we were writing about a Third World country with a system like ours, we would be careful to refer to the “largely ceremonial” Parliament and “sham” elections.”

    Nowhere is the neutering of parliamentary democracy by the establishment more apparent than in my story, since it relates to torture by CSIS being covered-up by our very own government. I recently published an article on the subject “Canada's Moral Dilemma: Torture by CSIS – Symptomatic of a Crisis in Democracy”. Its URL is: http://mostlywater.org/node/73401

    I have brought this story directly to our Prime Minister, through intermediaries who are close to him, and to the JUST Parliamentary Committee. I expect that they will continue to duck it and to cover it up.

    Our institutions march to the establishment’s drummer, placing deference to the authorities ahead of truth. Some might describe this as neo-fascism. But, whatever it is, it is certainly not parliamentary democracy. Roderick Russell

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/NL_Expatriate NL_Expatriate

    The canadian democracy as it currently stands is nothing more than a Tyranny of the Majority for the minority provinces and a Tyranny of the English majority for the french speaking Quebecois.

    We need an Equal Senate to promote a vision for the nation as opposed to what all of the national parties are promoting now which is a vision for the majority of the population, or Tyranny of the majority pop.

    Equal to promote a vision for the majority of the Provinces in the federation or a vision for the nation if you will.

    Unelected so as not to challenge the supremacy of the elected Rep by pop HOC, and Ontario's majority.

    Appointed by the prov to rep the prov and appease the Premiers and remain non-partisan and out of the purview of the Tyranny of the majority pop national parties.

    Bilingual (functionally, Culturally) to appease the Quebecois (French speaking minority) in what is otherwise as far as Quebecois are concerned a Tyranny of the Majority English Speaking population.

    Problem is any national party that advocates equality in the senate for PEI with Ontario will never get a majority and as such it is a catch 22. Consider it has already been tried with Meechlake and Charlo9ttetown accords and failed miserably.

    So I guess we are doomed to balkanize the HOC instead of the Senate.

  • Jolie

    I need a job right now to stop using food bank.Winnipeg is so poor.

  • Buddy Brown

    Nothing much new was described by either of these gentleman. Personally if you want to engage Canadians give them a choice. Not just what the political elites deem acceptable. But the option to say NONE OF THE ABOVE

    If it was Mandatory to vote (as these gentlemen state) then having NONE OF THE ABOVE on the ballot should be. If your going to force people to vote than politicians should be forced to listen to what we REALLY think.

    It wouldn't change the outcome of the election. But no Politicians could wrap them selves in the flag and proudly state they have a mandate from the Canadian people when more people voted against him then for him.

    That's why politicians won't even consider knowing what we think. It makes governing more difficult. If the full results of an election was reported with NONE OF THE ABOVE on the Ballot. It would send a clear message to the elitists in Ottawa and every provincial capital.

    Afterall they only want the APPEARANCE of democracy.

    Liberty Above All Else

  • Chris

    I strongly beleive that Canada is very broken. Our political system is irrelevant. It doesn't touch my life in any usefulway.The main purpose of government is to provide income and expense monies to a seperate class of citizens. The largest employment sector in Canada is tax collector. The money collected allows our preferred citizdens to strutt on the world stage. The reality is that wde are a small overtaxed nation attempting at great cost toits citizdens to punch way above our weight class. Meanwhile back home we are still after more than a century a nation still dependant on natural resources. Taxes are excessive and now we have an exit tax. I would emmigrate if it didn't cost so much to leave. God save us from thepomposity of our insipid leaders, their greed and uselessness.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

    Rather than get rid of public funding how about getting rid of the ten percenters. I've received 24 todate this year. Taxpayer's pay for this and at $0.54 postage and whatever cost for printing – $1.95 is a really good deal. Also, there are families who can't afford to donate to their party of choice – the $1.95 makes them included.

    Funny, all this talk and the US are considering getting rid of the corporate funding and more into public funding. There's far too much influence by big corporate America – a vote can be bought because a party has more money – that's not democracy in the least.

  • Manny

    Get rid of the Bloc and it will be fixed.

  • Foreigner

    Admit it. You broke democracy.

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