Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW

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WHAT a surprise

by Paul Wells on Friday, September 25, 2009 9:29am - 17 Comments

A long letter in La Presse finds hints of “Duplessisme” in Michael Ignatieff’s Liberal party’s Quebec wing. “We deserve better,” the authors write, in a twist on Ignatieff’s own campaign slogan. The authors are John Lennard, who worked on Bob Rae’s leadership campaign and whose blog carries pictures of Dalton McGuinty, Stéphane Dion and Bob Rae (find the missing Liberal), and Jonathan Pedneault, who seems like an earnest fellow. (As a bonus, Lennard’s blog has an English version of the La Presse letter.)

This is almost precisely where I came in. In April 2008 I watched Stéphane Dion try to explain that the Quebec wing of his party was doing fine. This is always difficult when it isn’t so. As Mr. Ignatieff will soon demonstrate.

Tags: Bob Rae, John Lennard, Jonathan Pedneault, Michael Ignatieff, Stéphane Dion

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http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

I guess the missing Liberal was just visiting, and didn't hang around for photos for Lennard's blog.
Anon

Why are the QC liberals so dynfunctional? Is there a one-sentence answer? Too many chiefs, not enough Indians? Provincial cannibalization of ground crew? Fallout from the sponsorship scandal?

It's puzzling because even during Chretien's rule, they were stronger, or at least it seemed they were from the outside.

wilson

Why are there QC Liberals and ROC Liberals, Young Liberals and Old Liberals? A party that divides itself stays divided.
Anon Lib

As a QC Liberal, I'd like to offer a theory about this. I think the main problem is a lack of talent. There simply aren't many card-carrying Liberals in Quebec these days. The Quebecers that do tend to join the party are either a) members of the minority anglophone community , and therefore limited in how much of a role they can play province-wide or b) self-promoters like Coderre who are in it for personal advancement. There is also a smattering of young idealists like Pedneault. (And snicker all you want commenters. I believe that Geddes has a post up now bemoaning the lack of political interest on the part of young people. But when a young person like Pedneault does show interest, you guys can barely conceal your snide contempt. Whatever.)

Scout

OK, your comment/link to Jonathan Pednault's website just made me snort coffee through my nose.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hellomike hellomike

I couldn't decide whether coffee or vomit was what I was going to be snorting. What a website.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

Here's where my understanding of internal party politics is weak. Who is responsible for letting such a needless show of pettiness and disarray become headlines?

While the responsibility falls justly in Iggy's lap, isn't there a table of a half dozen or so Liberal strategists who sit down routinely and talk this stuff through? Who try to anticipate how it might be viewed from outside? Who are trying their best to position the Liberals to win an election?

I'm honestly not asking these questions rhetorically – any insight would be appreciated.

http://intensedebate.com/people/john_g2708 john g

I second this…I'd also genuinely like to understand why it is so difficult, for the Quebec Liberals in particular, to keep from airing internal dirty laundry in public.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

It's messy, undisciplined, and feeds right into the meme that the Liberals are "just in it for themselves". It also raising Iggy's lack of democratic legitimacy within the party.

Iggy's annointment created a twofold corrosive effect in the circs:

1) his credibility and legitimacy qua leader will forever be questioned, and more specifically he has little moral authority to back a position requiring a party vote in riding issues, and

2) the broader public is presented with a man who has not even been democratically vetted by his own party and in fact lost the last time the vetting was attempted.
Anon Lib

Moving on…the more interesting question is WHY aren't there more LPC members in Quebec? Now keep in mind, at least in the context of federal politics, the main splits in Quebec are different than in the rest of Canada. It's primarily about federalists vs. sovereigntists in Quebec, with the "soft nationalists" in the middle. The federalists of course divide their votes between up to 4 parties (if you count the Greens), while the sovereigntists concentrate everything into the BQ, and therefore are practically guaranteed to win the majority of QC seats; which is, to put it mildly, discouraging for any federalist voters in the province. I think this is probably the main reason that more people don't become involved with the Liberals (or the Cons or the NDP). A lot of people must figure there's no point in the current configuration.
Anon Lib

I think André Pratte has also offered some very interesting analysis of the current situation in Quebec. Support and enthusiasm for separation has declined significantly in Quebec in recent years, but it has not coincided with any kind of embrace of federalism. There is a kind of empty space waiting to be filled. There is simply no one making the case for Canada or federalism in Quebec. That leaves the Bloc with a free hand. The Liberals should be the ones making this case, and this has traditionally been their role, but no one's doing it. Chrétien and Dion were undermined by their association with the repatriation of the Canadian constitution without Quebec's signature and with "hard-line" federalism. Theoretically Ignatieff should be much better placed to make the argument for Canada. But he hasn't really been making it.
Anon Lib

Now diagnosing the problem is not the same thing as offering a solution. There are no easy solutions. It's tough to make the case for Canada in Quebec. Canada will never have the same emotional appeal as Quebec nationalism, lacking as it does the key elements of language and culture. Federalism is seen more as a kind of institutional accommodation, than any kind of romantic project. I think there IS an argument to be made for federalism, especially in the context of an increasingly multicultural world where people from different backgrounds have to learn how to live together, but it's a sophisticated argument (more sophisticated than us vs. them at least) and you have to work at it.
Anon Lib

Symptomatic of the problem is that Ignatieff's first round of ads in Quebec are targeting Harper. But Harper's already dead meat in Quebec! Ignatieff's main political competition in the province is from the Bloc. Where's the argument targeting Bloc voters? Where's the long-term strategy against the Bloc? If I was advising him, I'd suggest the following. Make your first pitch a riff on a them the BQ used themselves last election. They argued that only a Bloc vote could prevent Harper from getting a majority. Fine. It worked for them. But Liberals should be saying "why be satisfied with simply denying Harper a majority? If enough Quebecers vote for Liberals instead of the Bloc than they could actually defeat Harper." In essence this is a lend-me-our-vote argument.
Anon Lib

Longer-term the message should be: 1982 and Meech Lake are well in the past now. Let's get over that and move on. Canada NEEDS Quebecers to be constructively involved in the federal govt. The Bloc can never play that role. Which is why, longer-term it is in the interests of Quebecers to re-engage with the Liberal Party rather than sitting on the sidelines with the Bloc.
http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Chantel Hebert seems to have a different (Quebecer) view on things – I think she'd be good on one or your panels.
Anon Lib

Unfortunately lost in the shuffle was the fact that Nathalie Le Prohon looks like she will be a good candidate. I wish her well in Jeanne LeBer.

https://web2.concordia.ca/alumni/events/awards/re…
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

I'm starting to think this Wells guy plays it down the middle.