Memories of Outremont-induced Liberal meltdowns past …

by kadyomalley on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:15pm - 94 Comments

Dear Liberals,

Okay, the parallels may not be exact, but ITQ’s unsolicited advice from the last outbreak of Quebec-related stark, staring bonkers-going still stands, as far as she can see.

In case you haven’t figured it out by now, the one thing we Hill journalists love more than an imminent parliamentary crisis, or free sandwiches at committee meetings,  is, and will always be, a Liberal family feud. No matter how eerily familiar the plot twists and surprise cameo appearances may be, we can’t help but be mesmerized to watch it unfold.

That said, we’re a sporting bunch, and we do enjoy a challenge, which is why we spend so much time trying to beguile Conservative MPs into saying something even remotely critical of the government or the prime minister, not that it ever works. Well, not nearly often enough, at least.

Given all that, it’s just no fun when you make it too easy to declare your leader and his advisors — who are unfailingly written off as too clandestine/wildly indiscreet/authoritarian/incapable of imposing discipline/inexperienced/past their prime/unproven/serial losers –  as a dead campaign team walking.

Abandon hope, forget 24 Sussex and start saving the furniture: most of us could write your obituary in our sleep at this point. And the more you freak out, the more material — unsourced and otherwise — you give us, which means more full-page special sections on the imminent caucus apocalypse, which subsequently sends even more anonymous senior strategists scurrying to Hy’s to pour out their hearts to the first columnist they see.

If, on the other hand, you don’t — freak out, that is — but attempt to assess the damage in something approaching a calm and clinical fashion, and actually try to, you know, repair it, instead of burying your head in the sand or a knife in the back of the first available scapegoat, we’re going to have to work a lot harder to find a new angle on the story. Eventually, some of us will get so bored with the sound of our own speculation that we’ll move on to something else — maybe even something that doesn’t involve drawing up lists of your potential successors.

None of the above, incidentally, should be interpreted as a ringing endorsement of your leader’s performance, or, for that matter, that of your party since his election appointment as such: long stretches of ineffectualness punctuated by brief moments of baffling incoherence. Apparently, though, it only counts when it happens in Quebec, so if there’s a silver lining to what went down yesterday,  it would be that this may finally force you to admit to, and then, ideally, try to solve, what you can euphemistically describe as “staffing challenges” within OLO.

It may be too late, of course. There is also a growing chorus of suddenly-self-identifying Cassandras who claim that they’ve been saying all along that this particular leader is, to put it plainly, a dud. As a friend of the non-Liberal persuasion pointed out to ITQ last night, if you charted the last few months of Liberal poll numbers alongside Ignatieff’s disappearance from the political landscape, you could rightly conclude that his best strategy for the next election will be to spend it holed up in an underground silo somewhere in Narnia. Still, you’re stuck with him for the moment, so you may as well make the best of it — and leave the preemptive post-mortem performing to us professionals.

Not quite crepe-hanging, but ready to get out her measuring tape-ly yours,

ITQ

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  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Harbles Harbles

    Now you're sounding like Rick Mercer.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/KadyITQ KadyITQ

      As an actual Cassandra on this front — really! I have witnesses! — I may just be cranky. And a wee bit contrary-minded.

      • ahm

        Good grief, I hope not. She came to a bad end.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    Great letter, Kady! Solid advice for the self-immolating Liberal campaign team, and you definitely didn't sugarcoat anything! Loved this line: "long stretches of ineffectualness punctuated by brief moments of baffling incoherence".

    It was true in 2004 and 2006, and it's still true today: the Liberals are their own worst enemy. That's why having a strong leader is so important.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/KadyITQ KadyITQ

      Aw, thanks. Of course, they won't listen to me, but still. As for your point on the need to have a strong leader, I agree, although I'm not sure strength alone is sufficient given the chaotic nature of the Liberal Party even things are going well. I'm beginning to think it's more about Not Being Michael Ignatieff (Or Stephane Dion For That Matter). Yeah, I'm one of those heretics who thinks the so-called "Rosedale Gang" may be taking too much flack for this — and other — recent clusterfunks; there's something about the pattern that makes me think that Ignatieff himself is largely to blame. When in doubt — which seems to be almost always — his reflex is to oscillate, and even the best staffing in the world can't magically imbue him with the kind of snap political judgment that he needs.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

        Kady…I know you don't want to hear from me but I knew if I hung in long enough we would agree on something.

        Don't you think the Liberal attacks on the government are falling on deaf ears because the criticisms are not ringing true in the eyes and ears of the public? As an example Iggy argues the Conservaties have made a mess out of the economy. Yet Canadians see in the various media and TV news that there are signs of an economic recovery. So when Iggy makes that statement many Canadians will simply tune him out and his message is lost. That's only one point. However, I could find others where the Lib rhetoric does not match the realities that Canadians are seeing and hearing.

      • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

        Kady…I know you don't want to hear from me but I knew if I hung in long enough we would agree on something.

        Don't you think the Liberal attacks on the government are falling on deaf ears because the criticisms are not ringing true in the eyes and ears of the public? As an example Iggy argues the Conservatives have made a mess out of the economy. Yet Canadians see in the various media and TV news that there are signs of an economic recovery. So when Iggy makes that statement many Canadians will simply tune him out and his message is lost. That's only one point. However, I could find others where the Lib rhetoric does not match the realities that Canadians are seeing and hearing.

    • Eas Coas

      "The Liberals are their own worst enemy. That's why having a strong leader is so important. "

      Hmmm…I wonder where we could look to find a counter-example? A Canadian political party with a strong leader and water-tight solidarity? I certainly hope such a party would not be construed as authoritarian and undemocratic.

      Given the choice between a party whose cabinet is restricted from speaking without approval from the Glorious Leader and a party whose members regularly dissent, I would choose the party whose members exercise their democratic right to speak disapprovingly of authority figures.

      Liberals, implode all you like! It only forces someone with real leadership capability to eventually take the reins and unite the party without muzzling it.

      That the tough, almost impossible, toil of democracy. May it thrive.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        So the Outremont fiasco and the current Liberal disarray makes you more likely to vote for them? Because it proves that disgruntled party members aren't muzzled by the very leader that they are publicly criticizing?

        • Eas Coas

          Shocking, isn't it, that I would support a party whose leader doesn't muzzle his members? And because they are criticizing him at that! How distastefully democratic!

          I didn't realize the Conservative tyrant had so swiftly set the new political norm.

          To answer your question more accurately, I don't support disarray and fiasco, but I do support members who are not sheep. I'm glad to see the Liberal party isn't going to be muzzled. Their motives may not be entirely respectable, but at least they'll speak out. Ideally, I would vote for the party whose members, when they speak out, say things I agree with. But since, of the two major parties in this country, there is only one whose members are speaking out at all, I'm not given much of a choice, am I?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            I didn't realize the Conservative tyrant had so swiftly set the new political norm.

            I didn't realize that Harper had introduced the concept of "party discipline" to Canada. I also suspect that you'd be voting Liberal even if Tory MPs were free to publicly vent their spleen about any topic under the sun, including criticism of their leader.

          • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            I didn't realize the Conservative tyrant had so swiftly set the new political norm.

            I didn't realize that Harper had introduced the concept of "party discipline" to Canada. I also suspect that you'd be voting Liberal even if Tory MPs were free to publicly vent their spleen about any topic under the sun, including criticism of their leader.

            It's almost like you're trying to find the silver lining in the cloud that has descended on the Liberal party. Nothing wrong with that – it's a very human response to bad news.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

            I guess the Liberal party has changed. Dion threw out Comartine who dared threaten to support the Conservative budget and of course the famous fight between Chretien/Nunziata who spoke out against the leader because he did not honour his promise to eliminate the GST.

            Of course the recent appointment of the leader by passing the grass roots etc.

            This all shows the Liberals are so democratic and allow their MPs to speak their minds. Your memory is short.

          • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

            I guess the Liberal party has changed. Dion threw out Comartin who dared threaten to support the Conservative budget and of course the famous fight between Chretien/Nunziata who spoke out against the leader because he did not honour his promise to eliminate the GST. Both were thrown out of caucus.

            Of course the recent appointment of the leader by by-passing the grass roots smacks of democracy etc.

            This all shows the Liberals are so democratic and allow their MPs to speak their minds. Your memory is short.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/JulesAime JulesAime

      Strong leader? The Liberals current problems have persisted through Martin, Dion and now Ignatieff. And they were already present at the end of the Chretien years. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe Rae would fare and differently than his three predecessors.

      You could be right but I don't think the solution here is a strong leader and it isn't better strategy either. I can'yt help but think that the problem runs a lot deeper than that.

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/JulesAime JulesAime

      Strong leader? The Liberals current problems have persisted through Martin, Dion and now Ignatieff. And they were already present at the end of the Chretien years. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe Rae would fare and differently than his three predecessors.

      You could be right but I don't think the solution here is a strong leader and it isn't better strategy either. I can't help but think that the problem runs a lot deeper than that.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

        I wonder if a party that was trying to be all things to all people without taking a strong position on anything throughout the last two decades is now seeing the consequences. There is no individual that clearly represents the various wings of the party, whether regional wings or wings on the political spectrum. This showed in the leadership convention won by Dion, when he came back from third place to win it. It also showed with the vast array of candidates they had, none of them representing a large segment of the party but all of them with a very passionate following in some wing of the party.

        Just the fact that Rae is in the party is a shocker. I've actually always thought that Rae would fare worse than Dion or Iggy, because of his NDP past, he is left of most of the party, and his boondoggles as Ontario premier. How on earth would Rae distinguish himself from Layton? On the other hand, in terms of policy Iggy has not distinguished himself from Harper.

        It seems to be a very difficult task for any one person to pull together the numerous factions in the Liberal party.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

      One shouldn't assume any correlation between a leader being "strong" and a leader being "good". There are ways to lead, after all, beyond strong-arming your own party members.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/john_g2708 john g

    A very entertaining bit of tough love. Nice job.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

    Valid characterizations of Iggy aside, this begs some armchair speculation as to the potential for *any* Liberal leader to effectively control this party.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/KadyITQ KadyITQ

      See, this is where my inner chaos demon comes out, and explains why, despite the dark suspicions of any number of commenters, I could never be a card-carrying member of any political party: I just don't see why you necessarily have to control every element or variable in your party to be a reasonably decent prime minister — not, mind you, that I'm suggesting Ignatieff would be, but in general. From what I can see, it's considerably trickier to keep your Quebec wing from imploding on a semi-annual basis than it is to govern Quebec. I know that sounds like it shouldn't make sense, and yet, from everything we've seen, it may still be true.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

        For what it's worth, I really have no sense of your own political/philosophical leanings (which is meant as a compliment).

        Agreed that a party shouldn't be an army of drones, and 'control' is probably too strong a word. But I just wonder if the Liberal party can be harnessed as a cohesive force through some mix of accomodation, charisma, authority and team spirit?

        Maybe everything's fine outside of Quebec, and I'm reading too much into this.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/JulesAime JulesAime

        Fair enough but a member of Ignatieff's shadow cabinet is not just any old element of the party. That Ignatieff couldn't force him to choose between sucking it up or resigning completely is telling. It's also telling that someone or something has enough control over elements of the party that no one will go on record saying anything negative about Coderre. That looks more like merely holding on not like leading.

    • Eas Coas

      This is repetitive of me (see my reply to Crit above), but I would argue that it is to the party's credit that it cannot be controlled. We are witnessing the alternative as we speak, and it is authoritarian and undemocratic. A real leader would not forbid dissent or micromanage all PR.

      • wilson

        An uncontrollable party will never make it into government from the opposition benches. never.
        Ask Garth how being outspoken got him re-elected NOT.

        • Mulletaur

          Congratulations on the first sensible thing you've ever contributed, Wilson.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/JulesAime JulesAime

      Back in the Dion years, some Liberal was quoted anonymously of course) in the Globe, saying that it could be a good thing for the Liberals to really lose an election, that is Conservative majority. That sounds crazy from one perspective but from another it makes sense. I can't help but think that the last thing Rae would want right now would be to step into the same situation Ignatieff and Dion were in. But if he can maneuver Ignatieff into provoking and losing an election, then he'd be able to clean the slate (in several different senses).

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/JulesAime JulesAime

      Back in the Dion years, some Liberal was quoted (anonymously of course) in the Globe, saying that it could be a good thing for the Liberals to really lose an election, that is Conservative majority. That sounds crazy from one perspective but from another it makes sense. I can't help but think that the last thing Rae would want right now would be to step into the same situation Ignatieff and Dion were in. But if he can maneuver Ignatieff into provoking and losing an election, then he'd be able to clean the slate (in several different senses).

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

    "In case you haven’t figured it out by now, the one thing we Hill journalists love…is, and will always be, a Liberal family feud."

    Since this is blog is called "Inside the Queensway" and is meant to be political junkie stuff, Kady is exempt from this criticism:

    However, the coverage of Coderre vs. the coverage of PM's economic update was embarassing. The effects of the stimulus, the deficit and if true, the allegations made by the Liberals have lasting and far-reaching consequences for Canadians. Objective analysis is needed. The conservatives management of the stimulus and economic recovery should be the single most important topic on which to judge their performance over the last 12 months. And all I saw was a re-hashing of talking points from both the Conservatives and the opposition.

    The Coderre thing is a sideshow. The political media need to spend a bit more time outside the bubble.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/KadyITQ KadyITQ

      You know, I actually tried to cover the stimulus announcement, albeit with an ITQ twist — I mean, I liveblogged the prime minister's speech, and went to scrums and everything — but all I got for my pains was to be yelled at by commenters for ignoring the Real News Of The Day, which was, of course, the Coderre Affair. It is possible to cover both, you know. (Not you personally, of course.)

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        Well, I guess you see it that way – I think Coderre as news of the day is a scary thought.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

          Of course I guess it was perfectly legitimate commentary on virtually every newscast and media story to talk about wafergate for virtually a whole week. Of course the last laugh was on the media when it was proven that the story was made up.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Not sure what you're trying to say, nor do I care. I see your comments all over the blogosphere, every newspaper article – everywhere – same partisan stuff yawn

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

        but all I got for my pains was to be yelled at by commenters

        Ignore those imbeciles, Kady. You're doing a good job. I'd say more but getting labeled a suck-up is something I'd never be able to live down.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/tigerinexil1428 tigerinexile

          Seconded.

          Good job here.

          (Okay, you've now got a Dipper and a Tory singing your praises. Can we find a Liberal?)

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

        Kady, I really didn't mean to criticize you (I likely chose the wrong forum on which to vent). In fact, I was delighted to see that you prioritized the economic update coverage. Also, I'm a political junkie and I love this inside baseball stuff, I'm not even being critical of that. I am interested in the Coderre sideshow! It just isn't as important as the particulars of the economic update.

        As someone who detests the criticism of "the media" let me be more specific: I disagree with the choices made by Ottawa bureau chiefs and editors-in-chief of reputable news organziations; I believe they did not focus enough on the specifics of the economic update and focused far too much on the specifics Coderre et. al. This is a commentary not on any individual reporter but on both the focus of the coverage, how it was covered and the relative play each story received.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

          I would suggest the Coderre story is important as was the showing of the Dion outakes. This is the official opposition in parliament who wants to become the government and its leader wants to be PM. To the extent that the leader can manage his party is an indication of what capability he would have in managing a governing caucus and the country.

          In my opinion the Coderre fiasco was brought on by the leader. He agreed up front that LeProhn would be the candidate for Outremont. However, when he got pressure from Bob Rae, some caucus members and Chretien he got wobbly and caved in. That tells you something about what kind of leader he would be. There are other instances where Iggy has flip flopped to pressure. Canadians are watching this and saying hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

        Seems like you need to save journalism a lot these days. I wouldn't worry too much about the people who wish to dictate to you what is the news and what isn't. If you've got 80 comments here, then you're writing about something that people consider news.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

      I'd actually respectfully disagree. The so-called "report card" was always going to be nothing more than going over the budget numbers, and some partisan backslapping. The only "news" involved in the event was going to be the opposition response to the report-card. And in this case, all the Liberals wanted to talk about was internal party problems.

      When the opposition decides to start opposing itself, that's more newsworthy than some boring budget update.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

        In those terms, I agree with you. However, an objective analysis of the stimulus money, where it's going, how much has been spent, etc. has been lacking in my opinion. The government (and opposition parties) has imposed a major financial burden on Canadians by committing to billions in stimulus and borrowing the money to do so. Given this fact there is a staggering lack of transparency on how the money is being spent, how much of it is being spent, and when the rest of it will. For example, if only 30% has been spent and we are already recovering from the recession then BY GOD CANCEL THE REST. If 90% has been spent and it helped us recover great; please provide Canadians with some transparency on how the money was divied up (by riding, by sector, by municipality, whatever).

        Perhaps this need not be timed with the PM's speech – but I'm holding out hope that one day this information will come my way.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/sourstud sourstud

          I agree it would be nice to see some honest accounting, but I don't think this government ever planned on doing that with the report-cards. At the same time, the Liberal's didn't ask for the report cards in the interest of providing honest criticism, they just wanted to score political points. I think we both agree that the current goings-on are unproductive and embarrasing for everybody involved.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

    No kidding.

    Well, I guess we've been told.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

      Meant as a vent not a lecture. Apologies if I came across all 'holier than thou'

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        No apology necessary – I meant it for someone else.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

    Kady, I am awestruck at how well your 2007 letter holds up over the passage of time. Congrats.

    Is it not significant, however, that Mulcair was able to build on his by-election victory and win in the 2008 general election? Sure ,the Dion campaign had problems, but many expected the Liberals to re-take the seat. By the time the next election takes place (2012?), Mulcair may further have solidified his hold on the riding (hey, he may even be leader of his own party) and Cauchon may have a real fight to win it back.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

      I understand that Cauchon is going to have to run for the nomination. His opponent is well entrenched in the riding and in the local riding association. It may not be a cake walk for Cauchon to even win the riding.

      Mulclair is an experienced politician and to put a political neophyte up against him when you could have a proven winner in the riding shows poor judgement on the part of Iggy and Coderre.

    • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

      I understand that Cauchon is going to have to run for the nomination. His opponent is well entrenched in the riding and in the local riding association. It may not be a cake walk for Cauchon to even win the nomination.

      Mulclair is an experienced politician and to put a political neophyte up against him when you could have a proven winner in the riding shows poor judgement on the part of Iggy and Coderre.

  • jarrid

    "Still, you’re stuck with him for the moment,…" – Kady
    I'm not entirely sure with your assumption that Ignatieff is the de facto leader of the Liberal Party. Here's the thing. We need to go back to how Ignatieff became leader of the Liberal Party. He was appointed, with the blessing of the powers that be, including the Rae/Chretien camp. The Rae/Chretien camp agreed on the assumption that power was within the Liberal Party's grasp, it being only a matter of days or at most a couple of months. Remember: Chretien publicly backed the Coalition. Not only that but he let it be known that Ignatieff should go to the polls a.s.a.p., in January and then in June. Problem was that Iggy's team resisted and resisted. My sense is that the Rae/Chretien camp got fed up, used the Outremont nomination as a proxy war, and decided that they weren't going to sit back while Iggy botched things (according to them) again. It is known for instance that Chretien intervened in the Outremont nomination, called Coderre and Coderre hung up the phone on him. I guess Coderre wrongly assumed that Ignatieff was the Godfather, turns out it is still Chretien.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

      Jarrid, I think there are a number of Paul Martin loyalists who might challenge your description of Jean Chretien as the Godfather.

    • an online reader

      How will you spin this story if Mulcair becomes Iggy's Quebec general ?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

      I think you are very close to the mark Jarrid. I would add that Coderre's accusation against Iggy was the very and I mean very worst accusation that could be floated as it goes right to the heart of the LPT itself and works not only in Quebec but anywhere outside of Toronto and this is the weak link in the liberal chain. What we have witnessed here this week is worse than anyone can imagine .. and if I am correct the next few dyas will show an increase of ' trusted anonymous insiders ' and rthe like and the 2 main camps will start warring with each other as the stuff has hit the fan and no matter of spin trying to make this sound positive for Iggy is going to play at all.

  • wilson

    This is like watching the Reform/Alliance/PC/Conservative 10 year war.
    But that is what it takes to start over, from the bottom up.

    IMO, Rae will impede the LPC renewal, wanting to skip over enough steps and go straight into the unite the left thingy.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/macphear macphear

      Actually the amazing part of Liberal internal wars is that the party never actually breaks up. The Conservatives still have not and may never recover from Reform especially in Quebec. Despite the smiling faces at the Mulroney thing it is still an uneasy union under the new big tent.

      • Mulletaur

        "Actually the amazing part of Liberal internal wars is that the party never actually breaks up."

        And never shall.

      • wilson

        Yah, PMSH has done a remarkable job at uniting and keeping that crew together, being in government is the glue that binds.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

        Recover from Reform? It seems to me that the Reform party rescued the Conservatives.

        Anyway, I agree it's tough for the Cons to get Quebec votes, but at the same time this kind of incident is what they need for that to happen. It seems they don't need much in Quebec with the way their support has increased in Ontario.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/tigerinexil1428 tigerinexile

          The Tories just need to hold what they've got in Quebec. That's enough for a nucleus of Quebeckers in cabinet. (Though it'd be nice to have a Montrealer or two, that just ain't happening.)

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

            There's gotta be a day when the Cons can win one of those anglophone MOntreal ridings. Anyway, the CROP poll reported by Wells today suggests the Tories are safe to hold onto what they've got.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Ed_Sweeney Ed_Sweeney

    O'Malley's 2007 letter is almost as insightful and entertaining as this one. Reading it, it strikes me that Coderre is now either "taking one for the team", or alternatively – put on the chopping block, in an effort to distract media attention away from the Liberal problem that they have no real story to offer on the current economic update. Why would Coderre announce his resignation at the very time that they should be maximizing their new status as the real Opposition? The timing couldn't possibly be worse if the Liberals have a take on the economy they fell comfortable going to the electorate with.

  • dan in van

    Unfortunately, the 'self-inflicted wounds' this time are primarily media over-hype and CON creation… Now that you're all about defending appointed candidates as opposed to locally, grassroot raised ones, I'm going to go beat the house on the Leafs this year — not.
    It doesn't take much to get the CON talking points going; I'm just so not surprised at how easily the media (even those not hoping to fill Duffy's sizeable seat) falls in line…

    • Ron

      I hope you are saying this in an effort to minimize the fall-out and don't truly believe it. This isn't about Conservatives or even Liberals – and it isn't a minor thing. It is situations like this that voters use to assess a leader. How did this Leader address this matter? How did he respond to internal battles? Is he actually in charge of his party? Will he cave under pressure? All of these questions are considered and answered during the lead up to elections. To dismiss the coverage as being a result of Conservatives (and insulting people based on weight) is counter productive for your party. People will vote based on the Leader they are most comfortable with and have the most faith in. Mr. Ignatieff did not perform well during this crisis – he mismanaged the file, caved under pressure and failed to show that he is the party Leader – is sure appears that Mr. Chretien is still in charge.

    • LIBeral

      How are they a CON creation? (Nothing like capital letters to flag everyone that you're likely a Liberal partisan and incapable of independent thought.

    • jarrid

      Well to put things in perspective folks, dan in van blamed the fact that the Liberals didn't hold a leadership convention to choose a leader, on… (drumroll please)… Stephen Harper. So dan's just being his consistent, if a little off, self.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

      I know Harper is a formidable opponent who drives Liberals nuts but no matter how you spin it this is not about Harper or the Conservatives. Nice try though.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    And thereby hangs a tale…
    I think many are missing the real point of the last weekend.
    Seems to me that Ignatieff found his feet late last week – and will come out of all this – respected for keeping his cool – making difficult decisions under intense pressure – and making IMO the right decision – overriding one of his closer advisors in making a choice that was intended to keep the party united – or make it more united (Denis Coderre notwithstanding).
    I'm one who has been on the fence with Mr. Ignatieff and his closest advisors since January – but – over the weekend – I decided he has a spine – some male appendages – and pretty good judgement…
    Onward and upward Michael
    Now – if you could also acknowledge the reality that job one is to get rid of Harper and Co – job two and a long way off – is to show you deserve a majority!

    • jarrid

      In other words, do as you're told Iggy, and things just might work out.

      But then, isn't it a bit incongrous that a leader is told what to do?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

      It is pretty difficult to describe Iggy as having spine and male appendages when he kept switching positions and allegiances. A person with spine takes a decision and sticks to it.

      • jarrid

        Here's how Vincent Marissal of La Presse describers Iggy in his column this morning:

        "Michael Ignatieff a certes manqué de jugement politique en désavouant son lieutenant et de colonne vertébrale en pliant devant Martin Cauchon."

        Note to WW, english translation:

        " manqué de…colonne vertébrale" – "missing a spinal column"

        I know you're doing your best under the circumstances but….

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

      althoough I am sure you meant to attempt to sound serious you didn't do a very good job. As well as being obviously out in left field you made a terrible mistake. You are under living in a delusion where you think that Harper is Iggy's ebemy right now = ROFL LMAO! Harper is not Iggy's enemy in point of fact Harper looks at Iggy as he is right now and that is irrelevant. Right now harper, Layton and Duceppe are all in agreement about the fate of Iggy and sharpening their knives to carve up what is remaining of his pie. Codere did not just pull the rug out from Iggy he went all jihad on him!

    • wilson

      If MI had a backbone, he'd boot Coderre out of caucus.
      MI is the 3rd leader Coderre has stabbed in the back…Turner, Dion, Ignatieff.
      Boot Coderre out and then watch the rest of caucus stand at attention.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

        Wilson,

        I think you are right. Igantieff could recoup some backbone by turfing Coderre from caucus.

        Given his history of back-stabbing, it is a little surprising that Coderre didn't recruit Garth Turner to run in Quebec.

  • D'Arcy McNuggets

    There's a reason Stephane Dion came up from behind to beat Iggy and Rae – I suspect those reasons are now beginning to manifest and all is not well on the good ship Liberal.. hmmmm, maybe they should have had an actual leadership race as opposed to a coronation.

    Don't get me wrong, Coderre is a buffoon and I say good riddance to bad rubbish, but clearly the Liberal Party ain't as united as they'd like us to believe. On a side note, isn't Warren Kinsella, the guru of all things "war room" part of that "Toronto" crowd Coderre laments about?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/BCVoiceOfReason BCVoiceOfReason

    The telling part in Coderre farwell rant was that he did not take summer vacation. He was working driving all over Quebec talking to candidates and organizers.

    Meanwhile Ignatieff was thinking thoughts, reading and wishing for a gettaway to France for a rest.

    IF Ignatieff is at all serious about leading the Liberals he HAS to have 2-4 meetings in Quebec in the next 2 weeks and personally talk to the "Coderre candidates" and make sure they are all not going to running as Liberal independents and will somewhat toe the Liberal direction set by Ignatieff / Toronto.

    The problem with this plan is that it requires significant effort on behalf of Mr. Ignatieff. He has no experience in putting forth the effort to run a corporation or a party and has shown little inclination to start.

    He is basically LAZY.

    Why in the world he couldn't have worked the phones or even called the principles on his carpet last Wednesday and got Cauchon/Coderre/Le Prohon together and banged heads together and come out with a joint press release on the resolution. It's not Rocket Surgery!!!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

      Nor is it brain science.

  • jarrid

    "He is basically LAZY."

    To be fair, BCVoR, the scuttlebutt I'm hearing is that Ignatieff is "low energy".

    • wilson

      Is he a vegatarian?

  • Calgay Junkie

    It's obvious that the Libs, when out of power, don't have the two glues of power and partonage to hold them together (as Preston Manning pointed out long ago). Ignatieff delivered higher polling numbers, and more fundraising dollars, which I would argue were sufficient to keep the LPC united until now.

    But the polls for the LPC and Iggy's leadership are down. The money might be drying up, as a fundraising event seems to have been cancelled. So what glues can Iggy pull out of his repair kit now, to keep the Libs united behind him ? Put it another way … how many Liberal MPs now think they will be riding to electoral victory on Iggy's coat-tails ?

  • Liberals Unite

    The beauty of the invisible hand of Iggy's chosen political consigliere, the one and only Warren Kinsella, on display for all to see.

    The plummet in the polls, the internal bickering, the repeated tearing of the scab covering the LPC's internal wounds all coincide with Iggy signing up The Devil of Canadian Politics as his chief consultant.

    Keep up ht great work Iggy,

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

    I think the most telling part od Coderres rant was a little mention of that Iggy needs to re-evaluate those advisors around him .. here is where the rubber will meet the highway – will he indeed listen to Denis and will we watch him cave again and again and again and change the advisors – or will he attempt to resurrect from the grave his support in Quebec and run the show himself as no matter who he trys and put in as a new Lieutenant will be gobbled up by political ginzo knives.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

    Kady,

    I think you have a lot of it correct. But if I might add just a little bit more. Party Leaders need to ensure a couple of things happen, and they and only they are responsible for it.
    1) They need to ensure there is policy in place. (embodies vision, direction etc)
    2) They need to ensure the party machinery functions (organization, money etc)

    So Ignatieff seems to be interested in only the bigggest of big policy…..but I think it can be said their pitch righ t now is more we should be pulling the levers, rather than the wrong levers are being pulled.

    He is better than Dion at the machinery bit, mind you how much insight does it take to realize you have no money…but give him credit for getting that piece started . Look over any one of Mulroney's comments in this area (love him or hate him he knew party machinery). Alternatively you can be Truedeauesque and contract that out, but you have to enforce it. Coutts and Davey ran that place as their fiefdom, because Truedeau wanted them to and backed them, each and every time.

    MI is a stranger in a strange land, he needs friends, allies and he needs time.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/YYZ YYZ

    Agree wholeheartedly with you entire post!

    Perhaps a vaccuum that could be filled by the fourth estate.

  • curious

    just to change the topic a bit.
    But during QP the following exchange took place.

    Mr. Marc Garneau (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to ask about the government's intimidation tactics when dealing with private and public institutions.

    Last December during Hanukkah celebrations, an aide to the Minister of Industry tried to block our leader from attending a non-partisan event at a Jewish school for disabled children in Toronto. When this became public, the government said it was taking the issue very seriously, but it would not provide details.
    Could the minister provide those details today, or are we to infer that his office did in fact interfere?

    Hon. Tony Clement (Minister of Industry, CPC)
    Hon. Tony Clement (Minister of Industry, CPC): Mr. Speaker, the allegation is a serious allegation and we took it seriously. I believe the individual is no longer at the ministry of industry.

    Why didnt someone do a geds search on georgane burke and notice that she has been working for Minister Kent since January doing community outreach ?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

    "…if you charted the last few months of Liberal poll numbers alongside Ignatieff’s disappearance from the political landscape, you could rightly conclude that his best strategy for the next election will be to spend it holed up in an underground silo somewhere in Narnia. "

    Shhh. Don't tell them.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/frenchie101 frenchie101

      wonderful! simply wonderful to read.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

    Actually I think the Liberals' Intrepid Master Plan (henceforth referred to as "LIMP") is to commit hara-kiri as soon as possible and let Ignatieff take the fall so that Canadians will get a majority government for a while and regain their natural, inherently Canadian longing to vote Liberal at every opportunity and even when there is no opportunity. Then Rae takes over with Trudeau's hair as close runner-up, and they proceed to crush all vestiges of Conservative rule using Rae's tremendous popularity in Ontario as a springboard.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  • http://www.intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

    Actually I think the Liberals' Intrepid Master Plan (henceforth referred to as "LIMP") is to commit hara-kiri as soon as possible and let Ignatieff take the fall so that Canadians will get a majority government for a while and regain their natural, inherently Canadian longing to vote Liberal at every opportunity (and even when there is no opportunity). Then Rae takes over with Trudeau's hair as close runner-up, and they proceed to crush all vestiges of Conservative rule using Rae's tremendous popularity in Ontario as a springboard.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  • Curt

    May I ask a question?
    When was the Leader of the Liberal Party some one not from Ontario or Quebec? I believe John Turner was born in B.C. but I'm not sure his seat was in B.C.
    My point is that the Liberal party needs to be re-born as a Pan -Canadian Party.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

      According to MI it is Pan Canadian.

      I must say as well, that before MI said Pan Canadian yesterday I hadnt heard the word in years….and I am thinking it was last at a Poli Sci seminar in the late 80's…….just saying

    • Political Junkey

      It was in BC. Vancouver- Quadra I think, or Oakville. I remember seeing his riding office on Cambie in Vancouver.

From Macleans