Gen. Rick Hillier was chief of defence staff from February 2005 to July 2008. As he explains in A Soldier First: Bullets, Bureaucrats and the Politics of War, the Canadian Forces have long been underfunded, under-trained, underappreciated and overextended. The most visible and outspoken CDS in recent history, Hillier sought to reverse those trends while fighting a war in Afghanistan—and, as it turned out, Ottawa.
Q:In A Soldier First, you write that most Canadians do not know what the rationale behind the Afghanistan mission is. What’s the biggest misperception?
A: That everything is dark and gloomy. What Canadians hear about the mission is that Canadian soldiers have been killed, and they hear about improvised explosive devices and corruption in the government. There are some very bright spots, from the reconstruction and development of Afghanistan, to the development of the Afghan national army, to the fact that two-thirds of the country now essentially runs as normal. Canadians hear not a single thing about any of that.
Q: Whose fault is that?
A: I start with average Canadians. They should demand that kind of information from their government when they’ve got their sons and daughters participating in a war. Secondly, the Afghanistan task force has a strategic communications policy, but I wonder where the communications is being done because hundreds of thousands of Canadians don’t know what’s happening. Thirdly, our media have not done a very good job. Very few journalists have actually been outside the wire, because their editors are very concerned about the risks and their insurance policies almost always prohibit them from going out.
Q: Why did we first send troops to Afghanistan, in your opinion?
A: We were going somewhere in 2003, just as a way to relieve the pressure of saying no to the Americans on Iraq, and it ended up being Afghanistan. But I think now we view the world through a more strategic lens: we have to bring stability to places where there’s chaos, to help those areas develop.
Q: Does Canada have a coherent strategic plan for what’s going to happen post-July 2011, when our troops are scheduled to pull out of Afghanistan?
A: That’s very difficult to say. I think Canadians have heard very little about it and are therefore reasonably asking, “What is the plan and what is our strategy there?” When I was chief of defence staff, our view of what we were doing was to try to help Afghans determine, with some assistance, just what it was they wanted as a country and how they wanted to live their lives. We were very, very clear on that. As President [Hamid] Karzai told me the first time I met him, “The number one threat to Afghanistan is our lack of capacity to govern ourselves, to provide jobs for the people and provide for their basic needs, and to provide for their security. The sooner we can be helped to provide those capacities, the sooner we can get going on our own.”
Q: How can you help Afghans do all that after 2011 without troops?
A: You cannot, so the troops, if they’re not Canadian, will have to come from somewhere else. Make no doubt about it: the security mission and therefore the need for forces will not be finished in southern Afghanistan in 2011. You can come up with all kinds of schemes to hide away in a camp and train people for the Afghan army or police, but they lack credibility. If you try to help train and develop the Afghan army or police in southern Afghanistan, you are going to be in combat.
Q: Should our troops stay in Afghanistan after July 2011?
A: Whether they should stay or not will be a decision the government of Canada will make. What I would actually like to see is a strategic discussion, not just about what we do in Afghanistan but about Canada’s place in the world. But in this constant minority government, always in election campaign mode, with a very vitriolic Parliament, it’s impossible to have that sort of strategic discussion. Do I think that if Canadian troops stayed on the ground we could help foster a more stable Afghanistan that would in turn be a stabilizing force in Southwest Asia and help reduce terrorists’ ability to hide? Yes I do.
Q: Do you agree with de Gaulle, that “genius sometimes consists of knowing when to stop”?
A: I teach that as one of my leadership points. But also, you don’t achieve anything by stopping at the first sign of difficulty. If we’d stopped after Dieppe in World War II, where would we be right now as a nation? If we’d stopped before Vimy Ridge, we wouldn’t have been a nation at all. So yes, you’ve got to know when to say “stop” as a leader, you sure do, but you’ve also got to know when to push for the final thing that’s going to give you the full benefit.
Q: You write that when you were chief of defence staff, some of the toughest battles were fought not in Kandahar but against the bureaucracy in Ottawa.
A: I liken it to a boa constrictor. We were at war in Afghanistan, with young men and women laying their lives on the line on a daily basis, and we were trying to move at lightning speed to give them the capabilities to reduce risks and ensure they were set up for success. What we did not see, from the vast majority of the bureaucracy back in Ottawa, was the same sense of urgency. Everything became difficult, really moved slowly, projects were often parcelled into very little bits and pieces. We had to fight a war in Ottawa to get things done, from getting the tanks upgraded to getting helicopters. We should’ve had those things from the time the need was identified, in weeks if not days. It took months, and in several cases years.
Q: You once said, famously, that the Taliban are “detestable murderers and scumbags.” Do you still believe that?
A: Absolutely. I spoke about people who were trying to kill Canadians’ sons and daughters. I would also challenge people to come up with any other description for those who, as part of their policy, want to murder defenceless Afghan men and women.
Pages: 1 2
Print
Comment
I see Hillier has not evolved one iota . He is still part of the problem. His lack of depth and understanding of why we are there is very telling. This is an American strategic resource war to ensure access to Caspien basin fossil fuels. Canadian lives are not worth this .
Hilier is like a giant breath of feresh after being confined in a lonney left cell for too long. If only he would move out west here I would drop everything and work on his campaign for him then put my money where my mouth is – make no mistake about it … so would many others!
And please don't "evolve" Mr. Hillier. You are a principled and intelligent man, and I would vote for you any day. The conspiracy theorists like our good man Gary notwithstanding, I believe most Canadians would wish to help anyone who suffers at the hands of anything like the Taliban, and would not be so self centered and selfish as to blame the Americans.
I used to think Hillier was a bit of an egomaniac and his habit of contradicting the government rather dangerous, but after reading this interview I wonder if I didn't have the wrong end of the stick. He seems very reasonable, direct, fearless, and intelligent. Guess I should buy his book!
I am starting to think a second career in politics might not be a bad idea for him. He would unfortunately learn how to lie (not a natural skill for him like it is for Harper) but apparently he is smart so could probably pick it up in time for his 3rd mandate. Finding the appropriate party might be a problem since none of the ones we have now seem to value intelligence and honesty which are his main strengths.
And tell us, wise old Gary, what would you like him to evolve into, a conspiracy buff like you? I am always amazed by that rediculous, tourtured argument about Afganistan being some magic gateway for resources and energy for the US. Paaleeese, there are a million other ways and places on the planet for the US to get any of those items, starting with right here in Canada, which is a hell of a lot closer and the Yanks don't have to commit even a platoon of soldiers. To believe your thesis we must believe that 9/11 was orcastrated by the Bush administration so they could invade Afganistan. Then all but ignore it to go fight some useless war in Iraq. Then come back after the Taliban has reconstituted itself. I know Bush was a mental midget but really, give your hear a shake. I live in a military town and have never heard any of our troops dis Hillier or the mission, many of them volunteering for their 2nd and 3rd tour. I tend to take their opinion much more seriously than yours. Meanwhile carry on with the conspiracies Gary. Perhaps you and Mulder can uncover the truth, which is out there(cue the spooky music). Cheers
Afghanistan borders on the following countries or regions: Pakistan; Iran; the Kashmir (India? Pakistan? Neither?); Tajikistan; Turkmenistan; Uzbekistan; and China. Iraq lies on the opposite side of Afghanistan to Iran.
How are Canadian softwood lumber shipments to the USA doing these days, now that the rate of new residential construction has dropped so much in that country?
The fact that Afghanistan is a considerable distance from the Caspian sea, that Georgia is both better located and friendlier to the US, and taking into account the overall nonsensicality of this this conspiracy from a strategic standpoint, I have to conclude that this theory has merit. A plan this absurd could only come straight from Cheney.