Knowing what I knew at the time, I thought that the basic assertion that Bob Rae used was reasonable – delays equates to deaths. However, let me add right now, I actually don't agree that any delays that might have occurred during the last six months or so are at all inexcusable, and I am not going to try to defend Bob Rae's torguing of the basic question. OTOH, you, knowing what you already knew saw that as a provocative question. Fair enough.

And then the reverse is true wrt your statement, because you had accessed some information that I hadn't I saw the statement as provocative, and you see it as reasonable.

As an aside, I would say that public health officials and Minister Agluqaak and others have actually been doing an admirable job over this time.

Anyways, thanks for hanging in there with me. I accept that you are simply trying to engage in honest debate, and I am actually trying to do the same.

Bob Rae is a sad answer to whatever question was posed to his contsituents, either that those who occupy the centre of the universe (Toronto to the rest of us) really need to consider their own separatist movement.

I'm somewhat confused by what is considered provocative about the statement There is no evidence that the vaccine will save lives To me, this is plain and honest fact. I'm not trying to be provocative. I am explaining why Bob Rae's statement is inflammatory. When he says "these delays have cost and will cost lives", to me that is a provocative statement, a strong statement that may be entirely false, because there is no evidence for it. I am trying to set the record straight, which to me is not provocative.

I was simply trying to understand the first sentence of your original post: There is no evidence that the vaccine will save lives. That statement seemed provocative, so I was trying to get at the thinking behind it.

And just out of curiosity – accepting that there is no scientific evidence supporting the contention that the vaccine will save lives – would you say that it is at least plausible that a few lives will be saved as a consequence of avoiding the flu in the first place?

The purpose of getting a flu vaccine is to help prevent the flu. That's it.

I don't know, it seems obvious to me, which is why I said it was an idiotic question – I actually thought it was a completely rhetorical sarcastic comment because the answer is so simple and obvious.

What I have been talking about is not whether the vaccine can or cannot prevent the flu.

It's debatable how effective it is, that's why I am talking about. And it's debatable whether it works for people who are at affected most by the flu, those that are at risk of losing their life.

Thanks for spelling it out for me, and for providing those links for the other phil; they were an interesting read.

Your last question is a good one, and I don't have an answer to it.

How can anyone take Wherry seriously as someone interested in improving the decency and decorum of politics when he ignores the most egregious examples of the Liberals' descent into the gutter, like he has this week? He clearly doesn't care about decency and decorum at all…except to the extent that he can use it to score points against the Conservatives.

Must have missed the part where Rae said the government is 'killing Canadians' – do you have a link?

Australia: Monday 28 September
US: Tuesday 6 October
France: Tuesday 20 October
UK: Wednesday 21 October

I will note that some of these roll-outs (such as in the US, which differs by state) begun on a relatively small scale for the size of the country, these are simply the days when the vaccine was first available to the public. As you will notice Europe is very much in-line with our vaccination plan, although Australia was far ahead of everyone…

Additionally, there continues to be much confusion about the vaccine, its impact and specifically reasons why everyone should receive one… (I happen to work at a prominent polling firm, we track this information and I can confirm it is very disturbing how little the general public knows about H1N1 and the vaccine). I do place some blame on the shoulders of our federal government, I realize they are trying to walk a fine line between inducing panic and educating the public… but the spread of information could have been much more effective (specifically the advertising surrounding the delivery of the vaccine and reasons for getting it)

This has been a week from Hell for the Liberals. Let's recap:

* Hedy Fry tries to make an issue out of the colour blue
* Ignatieff botched the communications in changing his chief of staff
* Liberal pink book suggests that Harper is responsible for escalating violence against women
* Carolyn Bennett's apology for her shameful flyer being sent into native ridings
* Hedy Fry suggesting that MPs should be vaccinated first
* Bob Rae suggests that the government is killing people
* Liberal senator invites a lawsuit by claiming that CTV is being paid by the Conservatives to broadcast propaganda
* Liberals put out a press release containing only the latin jibberish sample text you see on legal documents and such

If our media were half as interested in playing "gotcha" when it's the Liberals instead of the Conservatives, they'd probably be polling below the NDP at this point. What a train wreck of a party. Donolo must be a bit intimidated by the challenge he's facing.

But his comments yesterday accusing the govt of killing Canadians with H1N1 goes beyond crazy all the way to dispicable. Bob Rae is dead to me now. I will never speak or type his name again.

That has to be one of the most moronic and insensitive remarks I've ever heard. He should apologize to the whole country! Make him the next Liberal leader and the Bloc will vote Conservative!

What little respect I had left for the nameless one, is gone now.

That's for sure. Coyne may not be the most vociferous critic of the Harper government, but he's certainly the most effective.

Give your head a shake.

Besides, he can't make it up, because you see it on TV

Are you legally allowed to drive? I'm concerned for the citizens of your home town. Seriously. Take a friggin' powder.

Pray tell – WHAT COUNTRIES have delivered on the vaccine earlier? For crying out loud, it came out THIS WEEK. Do you understand the crapshoot that flu vaccines are?

Not to take away from the pain of families that have lost loved ones, but for goodness sakes, vaccines, of any kind, take time to develop. If not, why have we not all been vaccinated against oh, lets see, AIDS, Herpes, etc? Because its a medical crap shoot, that's why.