John Geddes

John Geddes writes on politics and policy, with occasional reporting and comment on arts and culture.

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The case against the gun registry I'd like to hear

by John Geddes on Thursday, November 5, 2009 12:31pm - 137 Comments

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police put out a news release that makes the case—as they have many times—for the gun registry as a useful tool in police work.

They offer examples. The registry helps police find out if guns are in homes where they are responding to domestic disputes. It helps them obtain warrants to seize guns from people who pose a threat. It helps police investigate when legally purchased rifles and shotguns are diverted into the black market.

Opponents of the registry often assert that it isn’t helpful in these or any other ways. But I can’t think of any reason, aside from patently paranoid suspicions, for thinking the police chiefs make all this stuff up.

So I wish a thoughtful opponent of the registry would begin a good-faith argument by saying, “Sure, the registry is of some use to police, but that isn’t a good enough reason to keep it because…”

Tags: gun registry

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Booboo

… because it is extremely wishful thinking to believe that the registry database is secure. There are hackers, liars, thieves, blackmail victims, desperate people, and scoundrels of all sorts in EVERY profession, including the police and related bureaucracies. It is no coincidence that break-and-enter incidents involving the homes of registered gun owners have increased since gun control was introduced. The registry is just a shopping list for the criminals. But it is now easier to identify the legal, registry-abiding owners, so they are being targeted , not just by thieves, but by the likes of David Miller (Toronto mayor) for gun confiscation because *surprise!* their guns are ending up in the hands of criminals.
Sandra

Personally, I'd like to be armed. Mainly because I don't want to be a victim, and I'd like to lower the risk that I could be one.
AltaGord

I find it incomprehensible that those who register vehicles without complaint or concern cannot do the same with their guns! Every positive reason for having a vehicle registry can also apply to the gun registry. It is intended to keep vehicles out of the hands of unsuitable drivers. You must pass a test to get a licence to drive. You must register the vehicle and obtain a licence plate for it. And you must have valid insurance to operate the vehicle. Police can trace vehicles stolen or involved in accidents.

Even though no one can prove the vehicle registry saved a life, I urge Conservatives and their supporters who oppose the gun registry to do the right thing. Get in their registered vehicles, check to make sure their licence plates, insurance and driver's licence are current and go register their guns!
http://intensedebate.com/people/onewheeldoin200 onewheeldoin200

You can't think why the Police Chiefs would be for the registry, John? Perhaps it escaped your attention that CGI, the consultant company that built and now maintains the registry, "donated" over $100,000 to the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police. The organisation that Toronto PD head Chief Blair is the chair of. The organisation who had their own ethics advisor resign over similar payments from Taser International. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, there is a conflict of interest here?

The registry is not a useful tool for frontline police, nor is it an efficient way to combat crime. I would like to direct readers of this article to a paper written by Dr.Gary Mauser of Simon Fraser University on a MUCH more effective and efficient method of controlling gun crime at the source: a CRIMINAL registry. It's only three pages, and is definitely worth the read for interested parties: http://www.garymauser.net/pdf/May06ffMauser.pdf
Walt

The police might find it useful to have wiretap on every citizen in Canada but could that be construed as a reasonable excuse to condone it. Or give the police the power to walk into anyone's house unannounced just to check up o their computer use. They may find it useful; police always find it useful if it gives them more power but is that the kind of Canada we want. Face it in the end citizens make laws and the majority of the people in Canada have objected to loosing yet another priviledge of living in a democracy. (thanks to Allan Rock)
Stuart Pearce

Just because guns are registrerd, it does nothing for gun control. Control of anything is hands on. And do we ban cars because someone my die in an acident, or because of drunk drivers, after all ,they are registred. Is amazing the stupidty of people who think because something on paper will stop crime!!!!
http://intensedebate.com/people/callmemit callmemit

long guns are not the problem, long guns are not an effective weapon in the commission of a crime, long guns are treated the same as restricted weapons, illegal weapons are the major choice of criminals, the registry does not change the requirements for gun ownership, the registry may create a lack of attentiveness in police responding to a domestic dispute where no registered weapons are present, the long gun registry is promoted as a solution to gun crime where the only identified benefit is being able to return stolen guns to the rightful owner (No guns are actually eliminated by registering them) , an effort to reduce illegal guns and the banning of automatic weapons, sawed off shot guns and large calibre guns would be more effective from a crime reduction and controlling costs aspect (Why anyone needs a legally registered sawed off shotgun or automatic weapon is beyong me) and by concentrating the registry on the restricted weapons police will have more time to investigate proper storage methods etc. from a smaller base of gun owners.
Brian

This seems to be more of a typical political battle as opposed to a public safety issue. If it was more of a public satey issue then the registry would NOT survive very long. The 'old' FAC system was working for a long time, well, before the registry was implimented. People think that the abolishing of the registry will amount to opening up the wild west and we'll have gun battles on the streets, people killing each other in their homes in an ever escalating frenzy. Or so the Chief of Police or politicals would have you believe.

MOST domestic murders are NOT done with a firearm but rather a knife or blunt objects. So it makes more sense to register our knives and kitchen utensels. Borders on the aburd but if this is the mindset, to reduce domestic murders, then it should be an obvious conclusion because more murders and violence is done with knives or other objects.

The recent examples the CoP in Toronto gave amounted to stumble upons. The registry did not in fact point out that a particular individual had a horde of firearms. So far this usage of the registry is to 'hunt' down those people who have left their paperwork undone as opposed to going after the real criminals. Those that buy, sell and USE… unregistered guns.

Because this is NOT about public safety and more about political power and the squandering of finances to keep a growing beaurocratic elephant fed and happy, you will see the oppositions forcibly 'shooting down' the efforts to use the money elsewhere, like stopping the influx of illegal firearms, etc. No… Its not about public safety but political spin to see who can garner more public funds to squander or further their career. Its not about what the people want but what the politicals want. Follow the money…
http://www.sortofpolitical.com Springer

Mr. Geddes…

Because you specifically asked…

John Geddes: You asked, here’s why…

Informational: By the numbers…

Informational: The facts, by the numbers…

Hope you take the time to read.
Skinny D

The gun registry is one small step to limit so-called 'outdoors enthusiasts', aka cowardly animal killers. I support gun control to its fullest measure. I think the majority of Canadians have serious reservations about personal gun ownership and little appetite for the perverse 'hobby' of killing wildlife for sport.

mit

Skinny D – Ducks Unlimited has done far more to preserve marshlands and natural habitat than PETA could ever hope to – Canada's tough conservation laws are usually the result of initiatives by hunting and fishing lobbyists. You are more likely to encounter a rabid animal in an urban area where hunting is banned and more likely to be attacked by a carnivore in a protected park than on private land.
There is room for hunters and wildlife in Canada – the gun registry was the result of human behaviour towards other humans not animals.
http://www.sortofpolitical.com Springer

Skinny, here’s what’s wrong about your position…

1) You want to impose your value system on everyone else. Frankly, that is typical of left wing thought. If you don’t like “hunting”, then don’t hunt. As a hunter myself, I never advocate that everyone should hunt. To each his own.

2) Unless you’re a total vegetarian, and never wear leather, you’re exhibiting blatant hypocrisy. Do you think that because you let someone else kill your Big Macs for you, you somehow are superior?

3) Were it not for sport hunters, there would be virtually no government funding for wildlife conservation, period. That, sir, is a fact. It also is a fact that hunters, almost singlehandedly, fund literally billions to such organizations as Ducks Unlimited, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Canadian Wildlife Federation, etc, etc, etc, for conservation and habitat protection.

4) You obviously don’t know thing one about wildlife conservation and management. And you obviously don’t care that you don’t know, either.

Guest

There's no video evidence, but the Registry is suspected of contributing to two killings, of people who were mistakenly believed to be holding weapons and shot after Registry searches revealed there were weapons in their residences.
Abeskatch

All firearms are murder weapons and should be banned with the exception of police and military . As for the brave "sportsmen" who torture and murder innocent animals to satisfy their perverse bloodlust , I suggest evening up the game by having them hunt other hunters instead of animals . We'll soon see how brave they are .
James Piche

The gun registry is a fabulous asset for the criminal element. All they have to do when they want a gun is hack into the registry choose a make and model, get the address, break in and get it. Seems to me that the police are complaining that a lot of the guns on the street are from breakins. Does anyone wonder where the perps are getting their info?and don't try to tell me that no one can hack into the registry
MomJ

A policeman that consults the gun registry before entering a house where there is a dispute is an idiot. Assume there is a weapon. Period.

Polarbear

Exactly, no policeman in his right mind would count on a government list, not if they care about living.

One of the ten things Lenin said a Communist government had to have in place was a gun registry. When the time came, the collection began.

The police chiefs are political appointments, not ACTUAL policemen!!

tset68

A lot of points are being missed here. The gun registry was never going to prevent crimes, it was going to win votes in Quebec. The registry was opposed by the Oppsition, (Their main job, right?) so their supporters dragged their feet and didn't register and drove up the costs due to delays and etc. The guns being bought from that time forward could be related to licenses, but what about the hundreds of thousands (millions?) that were already in the hands of hunters accross the country? No, this was a cash grab by a cash strapped government, and would have probably been much better received if they had just said so. We license dogs to pay for dog catchers to control the ones of the people who won't look after their own. We license cars to pay for roads we drive on, and of course with both cars and dogs, if we lose them, the cops can use the license numbers to find us and give them back to us. Why not guns too?
Laurent

How many other lives could be saved and protectd for 2 friggin billion dollars. How many organ transplants. Or help for our homeless or medical system. Long gun control what a stunned program to pay for
I would like to know who's feeding at this pork barrel. While the cries of truely needy go unanswered, as we cite lack of funding.
denlaugal

As a victim of gun violence two armed criminals threatening our lives and robbing us with a restricted weapon confronted my wife and I in 2008 in our place of business. Restricted firearms must be registered and have been for much longer that the long gun (non-restricted) registration. A gun registry of any kind DID NOT prevent these evil men from committing this crime, nor did these evil men apply for a permit to bring the firearm to my place of business to commit this crime. These evil men had no firearms license, no firearms training, and no criminal checks. A gun registry of any kind does not prevent crime today, if a criminal is bent on committing a crime it will happen – registry or not.

The law-abiding citizen should be properly trained, investigated and permitted to prepare for self-defense with a firearm in Canada, this should be an individual’s choice not the governments. I am pro–life and I want to live, any registry will not keep me alive.