Comments on: 'The last great Nazi trial'

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:09:15 +0000

Yes. It is easy to judge others when you live in comfort and in a peaceful country. What will you do to save your own life, should circumstances change? Also, all people should be treated with dignity and care, no matter what they have done. Love the sinner; hate the sin. People change. If Mr. Demjanjuk is guilty of those crimes, I hope over the years he changed to see that was wrong. If he is not guilty, as proven in the Israeli court, he should not suffer.

By: Macleans subscriber

Macleans subscriber — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:18:01 +0000

Stop the (unintended i hope) lies. German camps, not polish.
Poland was the only country where for hiding a Jew, Germans would kill the whole family. And MANY Poles were hiding Jews.
Thanks Macleans. Time to terminate the subscription.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:19:40 +0000

It seems your callousness is a confession, much more than has been proven against J.D. Apparently innocent until proven guilty carries no weight with you. I hope you both get what you deserve; it's confirmed you would then get worse, much worse.

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:37:05 +0000

This may help the many to understand how Canada came to have so many War Criminals and the 1986 Deschenes Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals. http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/nazican.h...

By: Jacek & Barb Stadnik

Jacek & Barb Stadnik — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:35:58 +0000

We condemn the following words used in the article by Katie Engelhart : "Poland’s Treblinka death camp", "Trawniki, Poland", "three Polish camps", "set up in Poland" and "crimes in Poland". These words are not true and are offensive to Poland’s good name.
An uninformed person can wrongly associate Poland’s WW II role as an accomplice to Germany and not as its victim.
Since they appeared in print, we demand a correction and an apology in print as well.

It is a historical fact that Poland was a victim of Germany's aggression of 1939.
It is a historical fact that Germany, while occupying Poland, built numerous concentration camps on Poland's soil to exterminate Jews, Poles and other Nations in a deliberate, systematic and premeditated fashion.
It is also a historical fact that Poles, like no other nation in Germany's occupied Europe, were being condemned to death on the spot for even the smallest gestures of help towards their Jewish neighbours, and many thousands Poles perished for doing just that.
Only in Poland there was a massive initiative to save Jews called Zegota, undertaken by Polish Underground Government. It was through this initiative that Irena Sendler, a heroic Pole, was able to smuggle 2500 Jewish children out of Warsaw ghetto and save them with help of other heroic Poles (of those many were Catholic Priests and Nuns). Many Poles were killed by Germans when this plot was uncovered.

We would appreciate that future articles would pay attention to historical accuracy and not slander Poland’s Good Name as it happened this time.

Sincerely
Jacek and Barbara Stadnik,
Mississauga.

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:15:47 +0000

So are the academic problems continue the unfinished work?

This is what Wikipedia has to say and references the New Order, Goering's Green Folder and the Hunger Plan. As you will note this was all Nazi all the time employing Germans in the occupied territories. This was used prior to WWII against the Slavs as a fore runner re-establish the prior WWI Prussian boarders.

Prof. Theodor Oberländer (1 May 1905 – 4 May 1998) who was an Ostforschung (Agriculture) scientist, Nazi officer, and German politician. From 1953 to 1960 he was a Minister for Displaced Persons, Refugees and Victims of War for the Federal Republic of Germany and is considered by some historians to be among the academics who laid the intellectual foundation for Final Solution.

"Operation Barbarossa is still the largest military operation, in terms of manpower and casualties, in human history. Its failure was a turning point in the Third Reich's fortunes. Most importantly, Operation Barbarossa opened up the Eastern Front, in which more forces were committed than in any other theatre of war in world history. Operation Barbarossa and the areas that fell under it became the site of some of the largest battles, deadliest atrocities, highest casualties, and most horrific conditions for Soviets and Germans alike – all of which influenced the course of both World War II and 20th-century history."

By: Robert

Robert — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:17:06 +0000

Shame on Macleans for bigoted journalism. Deserving of the Walter Duranty Award and a CHRC investigation.

By: Irene Worthington

Irene Worthington — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:06:55 +0000

I also agree with Taras Chuprynka. It is unbelievable that John Demjanjuk, previously tried as "Ivan the Terrible" in Israel – the result of "mistaken identity (it was concluded that he was not "Ivan the Terrible"), is now facing a trial for allegedly being a guard at the Sobibor camp. He was not a Nazi – if he was a guard at this camp, it was because he was a POW and had no choice. There is no evidence that he was involved in any war crimes. So now Germany is prosecuting this "so-called Nazi". Many Ukrainians, including the late Metropolitan Sheptytsky, risked their lives to hide Jews from the Nazis, and many Ukrainians were murdered by both Nazis and Soviets (including my late uncle who was in the Ukrainian underground army) – are these perpetrators on trial? I agree that war criminals should be prosecuted but not without proof of war crimes (what ever happened to presumption of innocence unless proven guilty beyond a doubt?).

By: John David Bergen

John David Bergen — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:00:24 +0000

Well said,Taras Chuprynka. This unfortunate was between the devil and the deep blue sea. I feel nothing but pity for anyone in his position.

I understand most of the Jewish survivors of the death camps were enlisted by their captors as "helpers". Did anyone think to charge them with complicity to genocide? That would be grotesque. This too is grotesque.

By: solo piano

solo piano — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:08:45 +0000

There are still Nazis in South America.

By: Frank Higgins

Frank Higgins — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:20:28 +0000

Hypocritical of US "Justice'" not to deport 77 year old self confessed Nazi war criminals like Jakob Tannenbaum for age and health reasons.
Hypocritical of German "Justice" to grant German Nazi war criminals amnesty in ~1967 but prosecute non nationals instead
US and German "justice" has sunk to the level of 1930's Soviet show trials driven by political agenda. Stinks to high heaven.

By: Gloria

Gloria — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:52:52 +0000

One of my three brothers, who served in WW11, had to bury bodies with a bulldozer in one of the concentration camps. He had nightmares for years. The dutch people, were starved to death, by the Germans. Stalin persecuted millions of people. There is ethnic cleansing still going on to-day, and all of it is ugly. Humans are responsible, for every devastation that has occurred on this planet. The name is corruption and greed, and it matters not what race it is, nor, what country.

By: Orest Slepokura

Orest Slepokura — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:45:25 +0000

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, made a state visit to Israel in April 1976, it began with a tour of Yad Vashem, Israel's great Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin invited the onetime Nazi collaborator, unabashed racist, and white supremacist to pay homage to Jews who perished in the Holocaust. Compared to oft-heard outcries from Jewish groups over even mild whiffs of Holocaust revisionism, no less remarkable was the bland equanimity both Israeli and Diaspora Jews also displayed toward the Vorster visit. Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi recalls that [The Israeli Connection, Random House: Toronto, 1987, p.x] "[f]or most Israelis, the Vorster visit was just another state visit by a foreign leader. It did not draw much attention. Most Israelis did not even remember his name, and did not see anything unusual, much less surreal in the scene [an old Nazi diehard invited to mourn the victims at a Holocaust memorial]: Vorster was just another visiting dignitary being treated to the usual routine." As a onetime Nazi collaborator, Vorster should, of course, have been arrested and tried once he set foot on Israeli soil – instead he was warmly welcomed by his Jewish hosts. The South African prime minister left Israel four days later, but not before signing several treaties between the Jewish state and Pretoria's apartheid regime. A denouement Leslie and Andrew Cockburn describe in Dangerous Liaison [Stoddart Publishing: Toronto, 1991, pp. 299-300]: "The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral agreements for commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would become the basis for future relations between the two countries."

The "lessons of the Holocaust," anyone?

By: David

David — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:30:49 +0000

If you look up Lehi/Stern gang, some of the jewish did terrorist attacks including assassinations of british and claimed massacre according to a jewish historian. Some of Lehi also tried to work with Nazis against british to get their jewish homeland.

Lehi felt terrorism was acceptable because the british limited the number of jews that could move into isreal. Isreal today limits the non jews to a much greater extent.

The isreali government gave every one of them who wanted an award, they were good "soldiers" fighting a war.

Dresden, germany during last months of ww2, the civilians were targetted by bombers, the army barracks and oil tanks were untouched in a massive firebomb rain of death in one night, tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed, it is alledged the plan was to lure homeless people to dresden then kill them to demoralise enemy.

Stalin and those who worked for him are alledged to have killed more people than the Nazi's did in concentration camps.

Many died under Mao in china.

If only the losers in war get the investigations 60 years later, what sort of message does that send? Don't do slaughter or don't lose war/surrender?

By: Knuckle_Head

Knuckle_Head — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:27:46 +0000

Is that "Ricky" as in "Trailer Park Boys"? Pull your head out of your ass!

By: Emily

Emily — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:39:22 +0000

It is with great difficulty I can even attempt to empathize for John Demjanjuk and his "ordeal", when he expressed no empathy for the thousands of Jews he stood by and did nothing while they were tortured and eventually murdered. His family attempts to show that he is being subjected to pain while undergoing examination before trial, however, millions of Jews, Poles, and others were tortured under his watch. While it is in question that he participated (willingly or unwillingly) in any of the actual murders, he did not stand up for them and so I will not stand up for him. He deserves every physical and mental pain he receives, and despite his age or physical condition, he should pay for what he's done. There were people who stood up and fought for those who were unable to stand up for themselves, those in Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Sobibor and elsewhere and those people should be treated with dignity. Demjanjuk deserves not to be treated with dignity or caring, and in my opinion, deserves any distress brought upon him throughout this trial. Perhaps then, he can have an inkling as to what he partook in during World War II.

By: Taras

Taras — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:27:19 +0000

Good Article but labeling John Demjanjuk as a Nazi is oxymoron. Only Germanic people could become members of National-Socialistic Party, not "subhuman" Eastern Slavs, who were starved to death or killed mercilessly by millions. It's ridiculous that the country who enslaved JD and made him involved in her crimes know tries to persecute him.
Taras

By: Nemo

Nemo — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:17:40 +0000

You mention "to Poland's Treblinka concentration camp". Wrong ,supposed to be German concentration camp in Poland.
You need apology, Do you know about Irene Sendler, in Polish Irena Sendlerowa ? She was a Polish social worker who served in the Polish Underground and the Zegota resistance organization in German-occupied Warsaw during WWII. Sendler saved 2,500 Jewish children by smuggling them out of the Warsaw Ghetto. You know there ,six million Poles were killed in WWII, half Jews and half Gentiles so all Poles suffered from German Nazi atrocities.

By: jniech

jniech — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:59:14 +0000

Please repair the article ‘The last great Nazi trial’ as it wrongly states Poland’s Treblinka death camp by which you mean the German death camp created and operated by the Germans to kill mostly Jews in occupied Poland. The problem is that your phrasing could be read to mean a death camp created by the Poles (i.e., it was the Poles who were responsible for this death camp and by extension the Holocaust).

As Robert Kupiecki, Poland's ambassador to the United States said about such incorrect terms that they “imply that the camps were a responsibility of the Poles. Poland was never an ally of Nazi Germany and never had any collaborative regime. Between 1939 and 1945 Nazi Germany occupied Poland.”

David Peleg, The Ambassador of Israel to Warsaw, Poland, stated that: "We, being Jews and Israelis, with reject resolutely terminology such as "Polish concentration camps". These prejudicial and erroneous phrases represent primarily testimony about ignorance and lack of understanding of fundamental historical truth. Every thinking man knows that it was the Nazis who selected Poland for central site for dreadful genocide of extermination of European Jews. On the Polish soil the Germans built terrifying camps where they systematically murdered 4.5 million Jews (including 3 million Polish Jews) and other nationalities including thousands of Poles."

Please correct this error immediately. Treblinka was a GERMAN death camp imposed on occupied Poland.

Regards

Jan Niechwiadowicz

By: Susan

Susan — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:37:15 +0000

From your lips to Gods ears.

By: Ricky

Ricky — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:00:21 +0000

Don't you all know that mcleans owner is a freemason. Of course they dislake all humans and try to destroy the world.

By: Louis L

Louis L — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:03:20 +0000

The treatment of Ukraine by the Soviets might explain what drove many of these guards into the pro-Nazi / anti-semetic ranks. While this man seems to have no remorse & probably deserves punishment, its too bad that Stalin's surviving murderers will continue to die peacefully in bed.

By: Peter Jassem PJHF

Peter Jassem PJHF — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:05:53 +0000

The camp in question was of course built and operated by Germans in German-occupied Poland, and the only role that Poles played was as prisoners. I would like to believe that by using the expression “Poland’s Treblinka death camp” the author tried to indicate the current geographic location of the camp rather then attribute the blame on Poland or Poles, however the expression is unfortunate, misleading and offensive to Poles as well as to the Holocaust survivors and to those who value historic accuracy. Such factual erroneousness during the 29th Annual Holocaust Education Week in Toronto is particularly irritating. Your immediate correction and acknowledgement of the error will be most appreciated.

By: Orest Slepokura

Orest Slepokura — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:11:15 +0000

A 1987 Maclean's cover story ("The Nazi Hunt") included profiles of the John Demjanjuk case by John Barber and Madelaine Drohan. Both writers assumed that Demjanjuk was guilty as charged, was indeed the "Ivan the Terrible" of Treblinka that his accusers claimed — and wrote up their articles with that erroneous assumption as a given. After the Israeli Supreme Court had ruled that Demjanjuk was not Ivan — KGB files from archives made public following the collapse of the USSR having identified the real "Ivan" apparently — Maclean's merely shrugged off its libel of Demjanuk as being of no account.

By: John Halucha

John Halucha — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:56:05 +0000

Katie Engelhart does write "Sobibor death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland" and by connecting the dots scattered throughout this piece the careful reader will conclude that she does understand Nazi Germany was solely responsible for conceiving, building and operating the death camps in that part of Poland it occupied, along with similar camps in other occupied territory and Germany proper. So what's with "Poland’s Treblinka death camp," (twice) "Trawniki, Poland," "three Polish camps," "set up in Poland," and "crimes in Poland". Even once would be unforgivably callous sloppiness, but with at least 6 instances it starts to look like a deliberate pattern.
While Engelhart does mention the killing of Poland’s three million Jews she ignores Poland's three million non-Jews who were also killed. With 6 million Polish people killed in the war and countless millions more tortured and dispossessed, perhaps Englehart and her editors can begin to understand the outrage of seeing the victims being made to look like the perpetrators. That's what makes this article beyond merely ridiculous the way it would be for Mcleans to describe Gitmo as "Cuba's prison" or "Cuban prison" or "in Cuba."
The American Jewish Committee, vigilant against historical revisionism and Holocaust denial, warns that these "were most emphatically not "Polish camps". This is not a mere semantic matter. Historical integrity and accuracy hang in the balance. … Any misrepresentation of Poland's role in the Second World War, whether intentional or accidental, would be most regrettable and therefore should not be left unchallenged." <http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=ij…
The extent of historical and journalistic integrity at Mcleans will be gauged by your speed correcting all misrepresentations in the online article to the proper "Germany's death camp" and "German-occupied Poland," etc. If this appeared in print, a correction and apology is warranted.
John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, ON

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:07:02 +0000

What about the murders of the more than 60 Nazi SA members on June 29 and 30 of 1934. Who paid for those crimes and why did Hiltler's judges escape prosecution?

By: Guest

Guest — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:49:29 +0000

Note, not all the planners had justice served nor the mentors (Blood and Soil) of Hitler and his minions wanting the prior WWI Prussian boarders. The lists became available in 1947 and 1962.

"The Wannsee Conference was a meeting of senior officials of the Nazi German regime, held in the Berlin suburb of Wannsee on 20 January 1942. The purpose of the conference was to inform administrative leaders of Departments responsible for various policies relating to Jews, that Reinhard Heydrich had been appointed as the chief executor of the "Final solution to the Jewish question", and to obtain their full support."

Thanks to Wikipedia

By: New Order

New Order — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:34:58 +0000

Based on the CBC and Discovery Nazi Rat Line documentaries (Google) clearly show individuals in governments of Allied countries, South American countries and other countries assisted fleeing war criminals over the years. Should these people also not be held accountable for helping hide these war criminals past the due date of their accusers. The excuse they offer was the need for spies on the labor unions for there fascist corporations possibly having the invested WWII pillage? The people that need to be exposed. So many have been allowed to escape, one more makes no difference. Those assisting the Rat Lines are the ones to be identified, but money talked.

By: Witold Liliental

Witold Liliental — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:24:59 +0000

As a Pole, I wish to express my regret for the tone and contents of comment No 4 about alleged "death camps in Israel" . This statement is far out of line. Not all Poles are anti-Semites. Your unfortunate wording of "Poland's Treblinka death camp" not only implies Poland's role in the Holocaust which is not true, but also incites racists (who, unfortunately exist in every nation) to write such comments as the one above which honest Poles deplore.

By: Sylwester Rosinski

Sylwester Rosinski — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:13:52 +0000

How dare you to use expression " Poland’s Treblinka death camp". During WWII there was no such country as Poland becuase Poland was occupied by Germany and Soviet Union. Polish government was in exile in England. Poland didn't exist at that time and anyway Poland never had death camps. Maybe you can find death camps in Israel but never in Poland.

By: Jim Przedzienkowski

Jim Przedzienkowski — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:42:11 +0000

Your comment in the article "a notorious sadist at Poland’s Treblinka death camp. " is unfortunately incorrect. I understand the need to release information but due diligence is necessary to make sure it is accurate. Treblinka as well as other camps referred to in Poland were camps established by the German Nazis on occupied Polish soil. It would appreciated if you would correct the offending term and print a updated version to correctly portray the truth.

By: the realist

the realist — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:44:59 +0000

Without knowing all the details, I get the distinct impression that the prosecutors are trying to cook the books. After the passage of so much time I think it is probably impossible to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". From the article it would appear that the documentary evidence is ambiguous at best and of course eye witness are notoriously undependable at the best of times never mind 60 years after the fact (didnt eyewitnesses wrongly identify him as Ivan the Terrible in the Israeli trial?) At this point I think they may succeed in convicting him but suspect that that is more of a statement about the persistance of the prosecutors and the political instinct of the judges than about the weight of the evidence against him.

By: Witold Liliental

Witold Liliental — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:40:13 +0000

Sir, while I duly note that the article rightly states that Sobibor was in Nazi-occupied Poland, a few sentences down the phrase "Poland's Teblinka death camp" is used. Such an expression is most unfortunate becasue it suggests to people ignorant of newest history that Poland was the organizer and/or teh administrator of Treblinka. As you know, teh Treablinka death camp was another German Nazi camp on occupied Polish soil. Such expressions as the one qouted lead many of today's young people to talk about Poles being the eperpetrators of the Holocaust. I would strongly ask you to change the wording in the internet edition. to reflect the truth.