Iggy should toughen up: McKenna

The Liberals are ‘dealing with thugs,’ says Frank McKenna

by John Geddes on Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:40pm - 142 Comments

Iggy should toughen up: McKennaFrank McKenna is the sort of retired politician whose elder-statesman status usually keeps him well clear of the partisan fray. But the former New Brunswick premier and Canadian ambassador to the U.S., now deputy chair of TD Bank Financial Group, had some surprisingly hard-nosed advice for Michael Ignatieff in an interview with Maclean’s: hit back at Conservative “thugs” with some Harper-style attack ads of your own.

McKenna didn’t pull any punches when asked what the federal Liberal leader should do about Tory ads that label him “just visiting” and “only in it for himself.” “I think you have to fire back,” he said. “My inclination is to use attack ads when you’re attacked.” As for the sort of adversaries the Liberals are up against in Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s tacticians, McKenna added, “They are dealing with thugs; they’ve got to fight back and fight hard.”

Speaking about the Liberal TV ads that featured Ignatieff talking quietly in an open-collared blue shirt, against a backdrop of sun-dappled forest, McKenna said, “I thought [they] were kind of light. They had no impact.” While the Tories put Harper in a sweater in a series of TV commercials to soften his image, McKenna doesn’t think Ignatieff’s persona needs any toning down.

In fact, he suggests Ignatieff consider sending a high-risk message. “Both Flaherty and Ignatieff coming out and saying we can get rid of this deficit without too much pain—you know, no tax increase, not going to have to cut the provinces and everything else—that’s not going to happen. Canadians know it’s not going to happen. If a political leader were to say, ‘There’s going to be real pain here and it’s going to be shared at every level,’ I think that would be a lot more honest statement.”

Ultimately, though, McKenna says the next election is Harper’s to lose, not Ignatieff’s to win. “Harper will end up either losing it or not,” he said. “The leader of the Liberal party just has to be a respectable alternative and wait for Harper to make a mistake.”

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  • Liz J

    McKenna just lowered himself a few pegs with that comment. Thuggery in politics is a pretty serious allegation.

    • gar

      You are so right.One loses all respect for politicians regardless of their party affiliation to make such disparaging remarks.I do not know how this may affect the loyalty of good TD customers who find this political interference by the bank. It seems the Liberals cannot stand their lowering to opposition status by the voter and this will certainly not enhance their chances of a return to power.

  • larben

    Dion was a lost cause, everyone was sure Iggy was the one the Liberals needed, and now … now it looks like McKenna wants to join the fray. Well I figure it's him or Rae, I just can't tell which would fizzle the fastest. Folks aren't ready for a change of party; venture forth if you think you're ready Frankie.

  • Rick Burton

    The Liberal’s classic tactic of ‘death by a thousand cuts’ just doesn’t seem to be working anymore. The population has witnessed it far to often and they’ve begun to tune out the LPC/CBC rhetoric……finally.
    Referring to the Tories as thugs/ bullies/ meanies is chintzy and hypocritical.

    Furthermore, as a Canadian, born and raised, exactly when am I supposed to start feeling the overwhelming sense of shame as a result of the military/Afgan prisoner/ unproven torture issue. Will there be an anouncement on the CBC or have I aleady missed it?

    • Dick Richards

      To bad there are so many of those Canadians who call themselves such without needing to immediately state that they were "born here" as though that somehow makes them even more "Canadian" (either because they weren't born here of simply don't believe it's a point of merit.)

      Those seem like the Canadians who keep objecting to the torture of people who, if the testimonies are to be believed, are innocent and just happen to have the wrong flesh-tone

  • DoasIsay

    Liberals are ‘dealing with thugs..ha, what a joke.

    Remember reading a time ago Dingwall was the bagman financing Salter Film (sp) for a phoney referendum performed by Rick Mercer on CBC. The intent was to denigrate Stockwelll Day by changing his name to Doris. The show was paid by taxpayers even though a supposed Gag Law was in effect. The CBC show was one of the lowest points in Canadian politics as it is recognized as pure political manipulation using a Crown Corporation.. The diatribe is particularly telling and says more about the originators than the recipient of the invective. A thought, probably poorly paraphrased, it goes something like this: "Name calling is the last refuge for a small mind."

    • wellwell

      Yes, I agree that name calling is pretty low — like calling Dingwall a bagman.

  • http://coyne kc

    How sweet. A whole board full of conbots. What happened? Did they close down SDA early. or is Macleans buying the beer? :)

  • Dick Richards

    A "thug" isn't far off how the Winnipeg Free Press has discribed Mr. Harper

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingn…

  • LOL

    Hmmm… "thugs". Is that the same McKenna that threatened to take away single mother's welfare checks if they didn't reveal the names of their childrens fathers when he was premier of NB. Just wondering.

  • Sheband

    Looks like McKenna is priming the pump to take over leadership of the liberals from Ignatieff who should never have left Harvard. This could yet become a real life version of "Dumb and Dumber."

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

      McKenna may need the job. It looks like he may not last as a non-partisan banker.

    • wellwell

      hmmm, Dumb and Dumber. Sheband, I'm willing to bet that you have not, nor will you, achieve the prominence of these two individuals.

  • Durward

    I do believe that during McKenna's time in Parliament our system was referred to as a a thugocracy and we were still in the era of pepper spraying our citizens and making claims of Tory hidden agendas, the dis-prove a negative theory of politics so very akin to how the Communists operate.
    Liberals are not so much a political party, as they have no policies, as they are a club of self interested socialists who feel entitled to rob the peons to pay themselves. Once you have had access to other peoples money you never go back to your own ,eh McKenna?, a bank job suits ya, more usury.

    • Dick Richards

      "making claims of Tory hidden agendas, the dis-prove a negative theory of politics so very akin to how the Communists operate."

      Actually, if you follow the news you'd know that the Communists are loving this

      "PM to feel pain of torture claims on China trip" http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/…

  • John

    McKenna has obviously hit a sensitive spot with the NeoConservative Party thugs! Listen to them howl with indignition and make more thuggish threats against Liberals. Next, they'll accuse him of being an anti-Semite.

    • mike

      mckenna is an anti-semite

  • Whiskey

    And the other thing about the Harper 'thugs?'

    They whine and cry when the other guy treats them in the same manner they treat others.

    Most bullies do.

    • mike

      get picked on a lot as a child, there, tiger?

  • Paul

    I see a few liberals woke up and have proceded to do what liberals do–denigrate others with different views with their personal attacks. Too bad they did not have any pertinent views themselves.

    • http://coyne kc

      Have actually been through all the comments? Or are you sleepwalking through it…like me!

  • jarrid

    Iggy should toughen up? Maybe.

    But Frank McKenna took a pass on the 2006 Liberal leadership convention when the party needed him most. He either saw the writing on the wall for the Liberals, which I suspect, or didn't want to do the tough work to bring the party together.

    In either case, he's hardly in a position to criticize the Iggy now. Mckenna had an opportunity. He obviously figured there were better ones around than being Leader of the Opposition for years on end.

  • Ron

    Mr. McKenna has some nerve calling other thugs. The Liberal party is the most destructive and corrupt organization in the political arena. Whether we are talking about the billions in waste, mismanagement and outright theft that occurred under the Chretien dictatorship or the current criminal activities being run under the McGuinty reign of error the end is always the same. Corruption reigns. Notice how the Auditor General's reports lately come and go, that is because she no longer is finding scams, theft, misuse of tax dollars under every rock as she did when the Liberals were in power. The Conservatives are providing honest, decent governance, and that is simply intolerable to Liberals.

    • wellwell

      If you just keep clicking your heels together, Ron, maybe the things you say will come true!

      • mike

        what's not true about the Liberals being corrupt and without any policies to speak of?

        well, there is the gun registry. oh wait…

        • wellwell

          In all seriousness, Ron, when the Conservatives are able to create a surplus which they didn't inherit, then I'll have some respect for their governing abilities. As things stand now, we're going to be left with one doozy of a debt hangover when Harper leaves office. The only federal party in my lifetime that has EVER pulled this country back from the debt abyss is the Liberal Party of Canada. Spin all you want, but for that one achievement alone they have my gratitude.

          • Dakota

            The government's goal should not be to create a surplus, they are not a buisness. That surplus you are so fond of is tax payers money that should remain in the tax payers pockets. The less money the government has the less they can waste.

          • wellwell

            It takes money to run a country, Dakota — this is something that tax-cutting conservatives never want to face, which is why their time in power always results in massive public debt. All that I ask of a government is that it plans ahead so that the surpluses in fat years balance out the deficits in lean times. But the only federal party that learned that lesson in my lifetime is the Liberal Party of Canada.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

            The pulling back from the debt abyss was done thanks to the heavy lifting by Mulroney when he introduced the GST.

          • wellwell

            Exactly, TwoYen — I agree with you 100%! If the GST is so essential to our fiscal health, why did Harper and Flaherty reduce it, so that the moment we encounter economic difficulty we'd have massive deficits? They are not responsible managers of the nation's finances. They ramped up spending even before the recession hit us.

          • Fred – Brandon MB

            The Liberals like to rake credit for the surplus, but that is so misplaced. the surplus was created by two of Mulroney's bedrock policies; Free Trade and the GST. Free Trade produced the trade surplus and higher employment and standard of living. The GST provided the revenue stream.

            All the Liberals did was take the credit. All the while promising over and over again to scrap the GST and kill Free Trade.

          • wellwell

            Tens of thousands of civil servants were let go, and government spending was tightly contained for half a dozen years while the Chretien government got the situation under control after the chaos of the early 1990s. The GST/NAFTA helped, but they weren't enough. You might have forgotten the shared sacrifice of that period, at all levels of government, but I have not. Regarding broken promises, I've seen plenty from all politicians, including some shocking ones from Harper during the past few years, so I prefer to judge politicians and parties according to proven results.

    • Dick Richards

      "Conservatives are providing honest, decent governance, and that is simply intolerable to Liberals. "

      PM to feel pain of torture claims on China trip http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/…

  • wellwell

    "Hell hath no wrath like a Conservative government scorned — just ask the string of bureaucrats, advocates and citizens whose reputations have felt the fury."

    Jennifer Ditchburn, The Canadian Press (yesterday)

    • Ceeger

      Yes, great point, because hacks with an ideological, elitist bent towards the the Liberal party drip golden words of gospel from their pens in every story, right?

      • wellwell

        I'm sure that you're more qualified to be a reporter, and would be more objective, than Ms. Ditchburn. I wonder how you would report the Colvin affair? You'd probably say, along with other national conservative columnists (who somehow, according to your logic, are not ideological, elistist, or part of the mainstream media), that there's nothing to see here, that we should move along, and that the Harper government should never be scrutinized. You'd conveniently ignore the pattern of aggressive treatment of dissent shown by this government that Ditchburn identifies. You might even tell us that ignorance is bliss. Well, no thanks, Ceeger!!

  • Malcolm Barry

    Mr. McKenna has his opinion and stated so when asked. One can disagree or agree with his remarks and there are many voters who have not expressed their opinion and agree with him. Some of the respondents appear perturbed but Mr. McKenna is not speaking of Bank Policy. All enjoy the weekend.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

      Malcolm Barry…..He is the Vice Chairman of the bank and when he speaks he represents the bank. There is no picking and choosing what is personal and what is the bank's perspective.

  • Rick Burton

    The Liberals are setting the stage for “Son of Margaret” to ascend to the throne.
    Ross Rebagliati will be the Minister for Connecting to All Things Cool.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

    McKenna should tread carefully. He is in a high profile position and as such could end up seeing many Conservatives who do not agree with him closing their accounts and moving else. His days as a partisan are over and he should communicate any advice he has for Iffy privately. The Board of TD may have something to say should he continue with these interview where he defends the Liberal party.

    • wellwell

      That's right, hollinm, McKenna should be very afraid. We don't want anyone speaking their mind in this country. It might offend those in power.

      • http://coyne kc

        Holinm has pretty well articulated just why no one who loves freedom should help this bunch of cons get a majority govt. The hidden fist in the velvet glove.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

          kc….come off it. McKenna is a senior executive with a major corporation. That is his employer not being a partisan hack. Lets see what TD says when they see the accounts being closed and the letters being received by the executives. As part of a major corporation who is controlled by the government it sure ain't smart to bite the hand that feeds you.

          There is no hidden fist. It is there for all to see. We don't like it and we will say so.

          The Libs didn't like being called anti semitic but we also love freedom even though we are Conservatives whether the Libs like it or not.

          • wellwell

            "The Libs didn't like being called anti semitic …"

            Where did that come from? Time for some professional help, hollinm.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

        wellwell…..sure he can speak his mind. However, we don't have to like it and have the right to say so. The government has said nothing and will not say anything. However, it is the Conservative supporters who are upset. They don't like being compared to thugs particularly when the Liberal party's former PM strangled a person in full sight of the cameras. That is truly being a thug.

  • Dick Richards

    AND CHINA IS LOVING IT!!!!

    "PM to feel pain of torture claims on China trip"
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/…

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

      Dick Richards…..and why would that be. There is no regime that embraces torture like China. It is like the pot calling the kettle black. Like probably everywhere else it is simply a news item of the day. Of course the Star and the Liberals would love to set up some controversey before the PM goes to China. However, economics trumps everything else these days.

      • Dick Richards

        " It is like the pot calling the kettle black."

        That is the point hollinm…remember when Harper had that big megaphone and how he loved to yell at China? I think China probably does.

        " Like probably everywhere else it is simply a news item of the day"

        and tomorrow, and the day after that, and the day after that…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

    Well, he's hit a nerve all the Tory supporters bringing out and used up attacks….hmmmm, he's hit a nerve.

    Don't knock TD folks, it's the top bank in Canada – doing very well indeed here and in the US.

  • Dakota

    I just bought out of my mortgage with TD today. I will not support any company run by Liberal thugs.

  • http://mmohut.com MMORPGs

    That is probably why a Canadian bank hired McKenna. Those bankers are all thugs too, what with their re-possessions, service charges, and foreclosing on sick widowed grandmothers.

  • Tommies

    As a NB'er and a former teacher the province of NB and especially teachers and students are still suffering from the McKenna education years. That was "thuggary" at its best. He couldn't win the leadership because the membership from Quebec still remember he was one of the hold-outs on the Meech Lake Accord. His french is not that great either!!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

    Well, when you quote someone, you may take them out of context, you may be juxtaposing two things said at different points in time, whatever. Regardless, you are trying to make the opponent look bad, hence the term "attack". Almost all attack ads are based on truth. Sometimes they bend the truth, sometimes not. There is always at least a grain of truth.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Pearsonality Pearsonality

    The conservative defense against Mr. McKenna's comments seems to be 'we may be thugs, but so were the liberals'. Unfortunately, this is similar to the defense used by the government when the stimulus spending scandal emerged (as pointed out be Andrew Coyne). Constantly using the previous parties worst excesses to justify your own is a sad state of affairs.

    • Fred – Brandon MB

      Wrong! the Conservatives are not "thugs" and not admitting to be "thugs". Mr McKenna should be able to tell what a "thug" looks like, but apparently not. A Thug is a short little Shawiniginian who accuses the Conservatives of putting troops on the street and undoing all of Canada's social programs to try and win an election. And goes out his way to prevent his successor from taking office for an additional term while screwing him over in the backrooms.

      Holding the Liberals accountable for what they say is not thuggery.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Pearsonality Pearsonality

        You just proved the point I was making.

        There's a difference between holding a party accountable and trying to destroy them at the cost of good governance. There isn't any one party in Canada that's exclusively guilty of this 'thuggery', you can go back in our history and find many examples of both the Liberals and the Conservatives acting like thugs towards each other. The problem is when current politicians start using those past grievances as excuses to behave badly.

        I have yet to see the Harper government apologize when called out on something that they have done wrong, and whenever somebody tries to call them out on something it's met with some variation of 'the real bad guy is [insert name of former PM no longer running for office] who [insert scandal, policy or past grievance] which gives Harper carte blanche to continue doing whatever misdeed he is currently being accused of'.

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