Comments on: Who should shoulder the blame for the alleged torture of suspects transferred to Afghan authorities by Canadian troops?

By: avr

avr — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 13:31:39 +0000

A week later: 69% appear to be for the aggregate "Not Stephen Harper's Fault" options.

Oops.

But keep flogging the torture 24/7, Wherry!

By: macGen

macGen — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:17:54 +0000

Yes, it is indeed creepy!

By: LisaSmith

LisaSmith — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:53:45 +0000

Our current government repeatedly resumed handing over detainees, despite repeatedly halting because they saw (and evidently agreed with) evidence that our detainees were likely to face abuse. MacKay admitted to three more times this year alone.

You may be able to get away with claiming, “We never thought they would be tortured,” the first time, or even claiming, “We never thought they would torture prisoners a second time after we came to an agreement,” but when we’re trying to pass, “We never thought they would torture detainees a THIRD time?” There is a limit to what number you can shove into that sentence. “We never thought they would torture detainees a FOURTH time?” A FIFTH time? How many times did they resume detainee transfers?

The fact that there are problems in Afghanistan doesn’t give us the right to add to them, then try to cover it up and pretend that we are above the law.

Afghans did not ask us to invade their country, nor did they ask us to overthrow one brutal regime, and replace it with another, slightly more westernized, BRUTAL REGIME. None of us has a right to be impatient with Afghans. They are paying a much higher price for our reckless stupidity than we are.

Torture is wrong. Contributing to torture is wrong. It is a national disgrace (and more than a little creepy) that there are ANY Canadians who don’t know that.

By: CanadianMale

CanadianMale — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:37:17 +0000

Well said.

By: Thwim

Thwim — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:47:31 +0000

In case you haven't noticed, we're the good guys. That means we avoid torturing people. Even our enemies. And we avoid letting people be tortured when we can. That's just part of being the good guys.

If you don't want to be part of the good guys.. well.. go join the Taliban.

By: terry1

terry1 — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:49:18 +0000

The tories are a bunch of thugs and liars

By: old WW11 DAV

old WW11 DAV — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 00:37:14 +0000

You as so right!
and why do they come to America?
it used to be that they wanted to come here and contribute to our (Formerly) wonderful free country,Now manyc ome here to get on the welfare system…
and of course since the Obama Admininistration,we are all losing our freedom ,as so many things are done against
the law of our Constitution
We should all join the 912ers,and take our Country back!!
Listen to Glenn Beck on Foxnews at 5 p.m.and youl learn about that!!

By: @paellaconarroz

@paellaconarroz — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:34:26 +0000

The Liberals are a joke.

By: @paellaconarroz

@paellaconarroz — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:33:41 +0000

Y E A H !!

By: @paellaconarroz

@paellaconarroz — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:31:48 +0000

Then worry about the RCMP or U.S. police who seem to indiscriminately Taser gun people they consider dangerous. The victims lie screaming on the ground while the officers continue to fire. If this isn't torture…???

By: Concerned Canadian

Concerned Canadian — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:34:42 +0000

We must realize that all these issues are a slippery slope. Today, some people are condoning this issue of torture. Tomorrow, we will be ok to imprison a whole ethnic group, in Canada, just because they follow a different religion.

@ Cash (hating Italy): You may have your own reason hating your ethnicity and ancestors' country, but I'd like to point out that Canadian cities are not immune to cities being controlled by organized crime. Case in point, Montreal.

By: Concerned Canadian

Concerned Canadian — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:33:33 +0000

Why we Canadians and the other "civilized" world criticize US and its actions in Guantanamo and CIA-run torture cells in Eastern Europe. After all, Canada was considered a beacon of peace and always held in high regards in foreign relations when compared with its peers (US, UK, Australia, and Western Europe), but now cracks are showing up in that reputation.

These events should be opening our eyes and should make us to know more about what's going on in the world. It amazes me that in this day and age of internet, we are still ignorant of common issues plaguing our world. We know more about flaky things like celebrities and movies, and deliberately avoid knowing the real issues. Adding insult to injury, almost of all of our media is littered with bias and true journalism is thrown out the window; i.e. Global/Canwest, CTV, CBC, and all major US networks. I, personally, love and watch theRealNews.com. I am not definitely promoting it but I haven't found any other news network which such frank news analyses. It is a Canadian news network exclusively available on Internet. Cont'd….

By: Concerned Canadian

Concerned Canadian — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:31:28 +0000

Yes, indeed it's all politics, but this also shows our character and morals as Canadians. Difficult and murky situations define one's morals and characters.

As per the Western world, the Middle East (except Israel), Africa, and Southern Asia are "uncivilized" and "barbarians". So, if they are blowing themselves up, have no respect for basic human rights, torture old men, women, and children, then should we (as citizens of a "civilized" country) and army do or condone the same behaviour? Should we stoop to their level or hold ourselves to a higher ground? What were the Canadian army generals and government expecting from Afghans; on one hand, they are an "uncivilized" bunch of morons and should never be trusted, and on the other hand, we are happy to negotiate with them on prisoner transfer? Heck, even US has that much sense, that they are not willing to transfer Uighurs from Guantanamo to Chinese officials because China will definitely torture them, even though, those Uighurs are cleared of all charges. Cont'd….

By: John R

John R — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:12:55 +0000

How the hell is this a US war, when terrorism is on a world wide scale? Just because your chair at the Starbucks hasn't been blown to smithereens YET, doesn't mean Canada shouldn't be involved.
Yours is the same attitude that many had at the onset of WWII when Jewish people, gays, JWs, Romani, and various other peoples were being indiscriminately totured and murdered.
I am sure glad I don't have you watching out for my sorry @ss.

By: John R

John R — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:06:23 +0000

Well said Julie

By: John R

John R — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:03:10 +0000

The Geneva convention applies to uniformed militaries at war, not to fanatics dressed as civilians arbitrarily beheading captured combatants. Civil rules apply to civilized peoples, not terrorists.

By: John R

John R — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:58:11 +0000

Spend a little time over there (I did 2 years). When you have religious fanatics blowing themselves up around you and mainly taking out innocent countrymen, then I'll take your opinion seriously. Until then, shut your festering pie-hole.

By: Rita_Ho

Rita_Ho — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:51:11 +0000

god i hate the fiberals for trying to make the government look bad for not caring about torture.

By: ElectroPig™ Von FökkenGrüüven

ElectroPig™ Von FökkenGrüüven — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:36:22 +0000

Noone even cares that we shouldn’t be in the middle east in the first place. Noone mentions the fact that this is a US war. Noone mentions that Canada always blindly follows the absolute worst choices that the US government makes, and when our country or our people suffer from those deliberate missteps, our government makes even worse choices to try and cover up the truth.

The truth is only a rare commodity when it is being controlled by criminals…so who exactly is concealing the truth today?

By: wafer

wafer — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:30:09 +0000

Did I read this correctly? "Who should shoulder the blame for the alleged torture…………" You have a poll on this???

By: DerekPearce

DerekPearce — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 02:25:39 +0000

In no way at all was I criticizing our hard working and brave troops. The problem is that they are ordered by higher ups to hand over captives to torturing Afghan authorities. Canada HAS to uphold the principles of a) no torture, ever and b) assumed innocence until proven guilty. These values are part and parcel of the whole decades-long struggle that will be ongoing to between the civilized and uncivilized. You don't know any more than I do whether the accused who are handed over are farmers/taxi drivers or acid-throwing bombers.

By: John

John — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:33:32 +0000

As usual, this story will disappear in a few days, to be replaced by something else that the Government wants to highlight.

Can see Harper changing his mind ( once again ) and attending the Climate conference now that both the US and Chinese leaders are attending.
That would help him to get this out of the news also.

By: Julie

Julie — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:40:47 +0000

Who says that Canadians handed over farmers, or taxi-drivers, or children? Certainly it would be reasonable for CAF to let these ones go & only pass along Taliban & their sympathizers. They obviously are sensible enough to do that for sure.

As for what they did to them then – right – who cares – they can't be considered soldiers because they don't wear uniforms – they target innocent civilians with suicide bombings, mines, & throw acid in schoolgirls' faces. So yeah – if they are tortured – so be it. What would you expect – to have them brought to Canada & put up at Club Fed, maybe be "integrated" as refugees & supported by us?
If you want to critisize out troops & their way of doing things why don't you apply to go over as a commanding officer. Heck, why not go for a quick visit to see the lay of the land & how things actually are done.
I imagine you are above all that though, & would prefer to be an armchair critic in the comfort & safety of your own home.

By: old fogey

old fogey — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:38:40 +0000

Maybe we should have shipped them to our country – declared them as Canadian citizen and gave each of them $10 mil. This would have satisfied A- holes such as yourself.

By: fed up

fed up — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:17:18 +0000

The opposition is wasting time defending the terrorists who maim and kill our troops instead of defending the very troops who have made this country safe for them.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:30:03 +0000

Exactly

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:29:36 +0000

Then don't get caught up in these non-stories. It's a war, & wars are not about sipping tea & discussing differences.
I had never heard the whistle blowers name before. Is he thinking about politics after his term in Washington is up – possibly for the opposition?
And if you are attacked, as the press & Opposition has attacked the government, aren't you obliged to justify your position?
This issue shouldn't affect anyone here in Canada, and it has been addressed – let it go. It's being made into a mountain because of the polls showing the Liberals lagging behind. They want something to boost their image – anything- whether it matters or not isn't the point.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:23:33 +0000

Why?
Because they may be hurt over there, or because some terroists may blow up the CN Tower, or subway sytem in Toronto? Or because of our " reputation" being hurt.

Not too clear on what exactly it is about Canadians you're worried about.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:21:16 +0000

Good Post! Wish people would think about what goes on over there, & stop trying to apply sane values to an insane country.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:19:45 +0000

What are you trying to say. Just put it in plain language.
Our troops are not over there torturing people, or just killing the enemy. They are also helping the people rebuild.
The ones doing the torturing are the country that asked for help becoming free of the abusive Taliban.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:17:14 +0000

Well said!

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:15:58 +0000

So? What's the point? That was done in the past. Why does it matter when it has been addressed. Why does the opposition demand answers now, not back in 2003, 2004, 2005 ?

And what difference does it make? Life in a war zone has a tendancy to get ugly – especially with enemies like the Taliban, who do not wear uniforms, and pull all kinds of barbaric stunts.
If we turned our heads the other way IF these guys were tortured, so be it. It was their government who did the torturing. I for one don't have a problem with this.
Comparing it to police shooting the wrong person in Canada is just silly, we aren't a war zone.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:07:42 +0000

What is it with people who are looking down their noses at the actions that were taken to remedy the handling of Afghan prisoners by Afghan government? for "accountability" over this, calling for an inquiry – to waste more taxpayers money – over something that has no effect on our quality of life & that has already been addressed ?
Please clarify what an inquiry will accomplish? Seriously. Besides wasting a lot of time, money & creating an unjustified outrage on behalf of Taliban & their supporters?
Enough of these foolish, pointless demands by people who just want to embarass our government.

By: fc1130

fc1130 — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:05:23 +0000

Why is anyone, myself included wasting any time on "alleged".

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:00:28 +0000

Why should we drain any more money to build prisons & to staff them to ensure these Taliban monsters are treated " respectfully" The people in these backwards countries have been fighting the same battles for centuries. What makes anyone think that anything will change in this lifetime? That is all these people have known all of their lives.
There is a war going on over there – it's not pretty. Let the people duke it out for themselves.Without financial aid.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:52:45 +0000

And what sort of reputation does Canada have abroad? We are seen as gullible, soft-on-crim, easy to take advantage of pleasers, who will take just about anyone on as a refugee- including terrorists – , and support them & their families to boot. We have NO real identity in the world, other than as doormats.
Maybe it's time to be looked as a no BS nation – with zero tolerence for terrorists, liars & others who expliot the overly genrous nature of the idiots who decide our immigration policies.
As far as the Geneva convention – how does it apply to un-uniformed terrorists who attack civilians as well as uniformed men/women? These people are the lowest of low, & do not deserve any compassion or respect in any way whatsoever for their cowardly, brutal acts. Even if they were tortured – who cares- they certainly don't adhere to fighting fairly.

By: tset68

tset68 — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:29:18 +0000

The Taliban are not resistance fighters, they're drug dealers who are terrorizing a whole population and the country's neighbours. No schools for girls, the only work that pays is in the poppy fields…
Our soldiers do what they can to prevent the torture of captives, and thats a good thing, but not a lot of us at home are too worried if the Afghans forget their agreement with our government and extract some revenge while trying to extract a little information. God knows they've been through enough.

By: no longer shocked

no longer shocked — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:34:27 +0000

Please don't lose sight of the most important issues here…
what is to be gained by the whistle blower, other than compromising his career! What is to be gained by the leading politicians covering their backsides? Who should one believe? To watch everyone scurrying for cover is disgusting and puts an additional taint on these self serving federal politicians and bureaucrats. It is getting harder and harder to believe anything coming out of Ottawa!

By: Stewart

Stewart — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:13:40 +0000

You being allowed to call my son a murderer is the real tragedy here. You don't know him, obviously by your comments, and you know nothing about why they are there – keep your slanderous, disgusting comments to yourself.

By: Stewart

Stewart — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:10:11 +0000

Right on!

By: Opine

Opine — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:53:24 +0000

I for one am not so much upset that the prisoners were tortured and I am not a pathological Harper hater. However, what is becoming the issue is the Harper government response to the allegations. Not that they knew – is there any doubt (?) – but the way they are responding. I see a bit of a pattern here. Lack of accountability.
Not being of the "artsy-fartsy crowd" I nevertheless am once again disgusted that the Harper government can not react any different to this then previous governments have to other scandals. Now that approach does worry me when all the greater worries we have are also influenced by the government action.
Maybe it is time a new party that makes honesty, integrity and accountability its core values is formed, because these guys all look more and more the same.

By: wayne moores

wayne moores — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:52:15 +0000

I hear ya on that one. They always seem so fricken clunky. They might as well add a none of the above option. Couldn't be more muddled.

By: wayne moores

wayne moores — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 02:49:38 +0000

Let's face it, the majority of canadians have far greater worries than this. The only ones who care, with their phoney outrage are the patholgical Harper Haters who want to blame the "Evil Harper" for everything. The only place this will be discussed is at Starbucks, along with the pretentous artsy-fartsy crowd there who are still outraged that the CBC has to scrounge by on a billion+ a year. That is if they can drag themselves away from their laptops where they are pretending to do something. Cheers.

By: Thwim

Thwim — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:16:41 +0000

Nobody's saying our soldiers did wrong.
What's actually being said is that our soldiers noted some concerns and the gov'ts of the time (Liberal, then Conservative) didn't do anything about it.

By: Elizabeth Maybenot

Elizabeth Maybenot — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:39:36 +0000

I worry more about Canadians than some thug with gun powder on his hands that tells us that they "will dominate the World"