Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Categories: Capital Read, Inkless Wells

A spoke in wheels from the purview of benches would pre-emptively poison the well! Pass it on

by Paul Wells on Monday, November 30, 2009 8:31am - 42 Comments

In her inimitable prose style, Chantal Hébert delivers a magisterial thumping to any Liberal who would even think of opposing the implementation of a Harmonized Sales Tax for British Columbia and Ontario. The arguments make themselves: harmonized federal-provincial taxation is good policy; it is the preferred policy of two of today’s most important Liberals, Gordon Campbell and Dalton McGuinty, and of two significant legacy Grits, Paul Martin and Jean Chrétien; defeating it would help only Jack Layton, while exacerbating the Liberal rifts that Stephen Harper is in politics to encourage. I’d add only one more: if realigning taxation is unpopular, that’s partly (only partly) because Stephen Harper spent the 2008 election using all the ingenuity he could summon to argue that no rearrangement of the tax burden could ever be legitimate because they’re always really a tax grab. Liberals don’t want to be in the business of encouraging that belief.

Oh, and you federal Liberals from B.C. who snorted when I called Gordon Campbell a Liberal? Unless you have a plan for getting an endorsement out of Carole James, he’s the only Liberal you’ve got. Pushing him into Stephen Harper’s arms? Not brilliant.

Tags: Chantal Hébert, hst

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Greg

Liberals don’t want to be in the business of encouraging that belief.

Paul, I think you mean to say "Some Liberals…."
Riley

I'm a New Brunswicker and guess what, we've had HST for years and we didn't crumble. We pay HST for funerals, doughnuts, televisions, books, Oreo's, and pretty much all of the other items that people are up in arms about.

HST works. It's simple. It's streamlined and I have no idea why McGuinty has tried to complicate matters with his various fast food exemptions.

For me, I think HST is a great idea. Apply an easily understood, simple tax regime onto all items equally to improve efficiency and clarity of taxes.
YSP

It's all a plot to take work away from us accountants. Take away the monthly PST return, and that's one less things we can make our small business clients pay big bucks for.

Seriously, though, having to complete two sales tax returns takes up a lot of time (& therefore money) that small businesses could be spending on other things, like actually running their businesses. Harmonizing the sales tax will save money for them.

http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Harmonizing the sales tax will save money for them.

Knowing this will surely cause me to break out into a song and dance every time I make my way to the cashier to pay an extra 4 bucks for my tank of gas.

McC

and when I shed a single solitary tear for you, I'll have to pay more for the tissues, oh the injustice of it all!

http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

Let me add one more.

The Liberals spent much of their deficit criticism on the cuts to the GST, saying lowering consumption taxes at the expense of income taxes, was bad policy. I would agree with them on that point.

Just more ammunition for those who see large amounts of confusion in the OLO. Most of it is because the OL is the source of much of it. Kind of ironic for such a smart man. Is it possible to be burdened with too much brainpower….apparently so.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"Liberals don’t want to be in the business of encouraging that belief."

They might not want to encourage but Libs need to start grappling with it at the very least. Canadians think they pay enough in taxes, more than 50% of our income in one tax or another, and our pols start to need making some choices here. If Libs want national daycare maybe they should propose cuts elsewhere to pay for it instead of continually expanding the State and taxes.

Voters are not ATMs though our pols seem to think we are.
Anon Liberal

I'll repeat my advice from a previous Well's blog on this subject. If Ignatieff is going to vote in favour of the HST – and Hebert does make a compelling case for why he should do so – then he should get on with it and state his position. I don't know why he always waits so long to make a decison (see: Coalition; confidence vote this summer, etc.)It shifts the focus on him, when, after all, it was Harper's move to bankroll Ontario and B.C.'s shift to the HST.

The only reason I can see for not stating it now is if the Liberals are actually planning to vote against the HST. But now that the BQ has signalled they would support Harper this wouldn't even have the political benefit (in BC and Ontario) of killing the HST.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

But it would have the political benefit of *opposing* the HST without the political cost (in BC and Ontario ground organization) of killing it.

Anon Liberal

I think opposing the HST without being in a position to actually stop it would just highlight their impotence…kind of like what's going to happen with the federal NDP.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

"I’d add only one more: if realigning taxation is unpopular, that’s partly (only partly) because Stephen Harper spent the 2008 election using all the ingenuity he could summon to argue that no rearrangement of the tax burden could ever be legitimate"

Great point, Paul, new taxes only became unpopular after the 2008 election. Now why did the Chretien Liberals seem so opposed to the GST?

Orson Bean

Because Jean Chretien could not resist a politically popular policy (i.e., opposing the GST) during an election campaign, the same way Jack Layton can't resist a microphone.
Lord Kitchener's Own

I believe the argument here is that this is not a "new" tax, but a rearrangement of existing tax structures. It will, it seems, likely also end up costing consumers more, but presumably that will also lead the provinces to have more money to fund the programs they're increasingly having trouble funding, like health care and education. Harper's argument, as stated by Wells, was not "new taxes are bad" but "any rearrangement of the tax burden is illegitimate", which, if correctly stated, is highly ironic given that Harper's government has always strenuously favoured this particular rearrangement.

Mulletaur

"… if realigning taxation is unpopular, that’s partly (only partly) because Stephen Harper spent the 2008 election using all the ingenuity he could summon to argue that no rearrangement of the tax burden could ever be legitimate because they’re always really a tax grab."

Yes, ironic isn't it ?

To quote Flaherty indirectly from the CTV story:

"He called for Ontario to implement three strategies in the budget:

* reduce the business income tax rate;
* commit to eliminate capital taxes for all business in all sectors of Ontario; and
* take steps toward harmonizing Ontario's retail sales tax with the GST."

Actually, Ontario has done all of those in addition to reducing the income tax rate as part of the HST package.

It's a bit surprising that nobody has noticed the Harper Conservative government's Janus-faced pronouncements on the issue of tax reform up until now.
me dere robert

"..Stephen Harper spent the 2008 election using all the ingenuity he could summon to argue that no rearrangement of the tax burden could ever be legitimate because they’re always really a tax grab."

Shouldn't the story in the mainstream media be more about this? After all it is the government introducing the motion correct? Instead the media puts the Liberals on the hot seat and that's all they care about.

Also, if the HST is so bad… how come its alright for the Maritimes but unfair in the rest of the country?

Lord Kitchener's Own

That's cute how you think the GOVERNMENT is in charge and the Prime Minister and his government should be the one's primarily in the hot seat over government policy and government introduced legislation.

Did you not get the memo that Michael Ignatieff is in charge of Canada and all scrutiny is to remain on him and his Ministers?

http://intensedebate.com/people/medererobert medererobert

I must have missed the memo… I'm pretty busy down here in the Maritimes trying to scrounge up enough money to pay HST.

Anon Liberal

By the way why is nobody looking into WHY the BQ looks like it will support the HST? It seems to me there must be more to the story than what we've heard so far.

wilson

Hebert covered that:

'The Bloc Québécois has signalled it likely will support the framework. Without it, Quebec's efforts to negotiate retroactive compensation for having harmonized the QST with the GST more than a decade ago will be null and void.'

kcm

And Harper has more than a few williing accomplices in the premiers, who's vision for the country rarely extends beyond their own provincial borders. A generation after Trudeau delared Ottawa would become nothing more than a head waiter to the provinces it seems to be happening – well, maybe a matre'd. Neo-cons are determined to get their way regardless of what the people of this country think. Who speaks for Canada indeed!

Orson Bean

Yes, it's all an insidious plot hatched by Snidely Whiplash-type villains in black top hats and curled pencil-thin moustaches. They cackle and rub their palms together with glee, secure in the knowledge that only kcm and PoliticalPundit are wise to their evil designs.

kcm

"…that’s partly (only partly) because Stephen Harper spent the 2008 election using all the ingenuity he could summon to argue that no rearrangement of the tax burden could ever be legitimate because they’re always really a tax grab"

Bit of an understatement PW, don't you think? Wasn't it more like: SH stamped his little feet and jumped up and down and hollered : " A TAX ON EVERYTHING!! IT'S CRACY! INSANE!!! Wonder where his moma was at the time! Sigh…well we do seem to live in an age where any kind of juvenile behaviour that succeeds is deemed acceptable…an inadequate substitute for vision…and cheaper too!
Mulletaur

Also, holy mixed metaphors Batman !
wilson

So what we have here is the leader of the LPC taking his 'own sweet time'
to decide if he is going to go back on his word to McGuinty.
And 'Iffy' stricks again.

"I assured him that the Liberal Party of Canada is a party of government," Ignatieff said.

"We don't rip up agreements that have been duly negotiated by previous administrations, and I made that clear to him, and I think we're on the same page on this issue."

Here's the agreement signed in March 2009
http://www.rev.gov.on.ca/en/agreements/moa_cita.h…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

My favorite Hébert-isme is "On that score…". She uses it in every third column.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PoliticalPundit PoliticalPundit

Harper's restructuring of Canadian Federalism and federal/provincial relations is driven by his 'values' conservatism which is linked to his fiscal conservatism.
It seems that the Conservative Party now has a solid, loyal core of 'values' and fiscal conservative supporters in Western Canada, a core that is growing in central Canada with each election that Harper wins.
What explains the growth in voter support for Harper's neo-conservative agenda? There are several possible factors. 1 – Canadian voters are becoming slightly more conservative thanks to an aging population and the arrival over the past four decades of more conservative minded immigrants.
2 – There is a strong shift in voting patterns. The Evangelical vote for Harper's Conservative Party, between 1996 and 2006, increased from 31% to 71% of all Evangelicals, Protestant and Catholic.
3 – The issue of Quebec secession is no longer an imminent threat to national unity and this has benefited the Harper Conservative Party. Canadians can now vote for any national party without fear of contributing to the rise of Québécois secessionism and a third referendum. Harper has benefited immensely from this development.
4 – The serious recession has made many Canadians momentarily conservative minded since they don't want to rock the boat until the recession is over.
Anon Liberal

I suspect there's more to the story than that. Wonder if Charest and Harper haven't already reached an understanding?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Raging_Ranter Raging_Ranter

You could be correct about that. On the other hand, why would the BQ oppose harmonization in Ontario and BC when they have it – and have always had it – in Quebec

Orson Bean

Well, some people have trouble comprehending the fact that a prosperous business/private sector is, on balance, a good thing. Go figure.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Every time I wake up and look around at the booming prosperity of the HST-blessed
jurisdictions all around me, I give thanks for how it has changed my life.

In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Entrepreneurial Spirit.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

I guess Ignatieff's got them both beat – he's managed to stay away from political popularity and most microphones…
http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

I spent some cycles trying to disagree .. and I wanted to .. but!
Orson Bean

It's worth noting that the "this isn't really a new tax" point was also utterly lost on most Canadians back when the old Tories brought in the GST (which was in fact a replacement tax, i.e., replacing the old MST). Though, to be fair, Mulroney's and Michael Wilson's communications strategy on that point ranged from ineffective to non-existent.
Orson Bean

Forgive me for suggesting that the amount of government-mandated paperwork that a business has to do would have any effect whatsoever on its productivity.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Feel free to suggest anything. I'm pleased for for the business movement. Especially the
smaller variety that don't have "people" assigned to the task. But I'm still waiting for the
dawn of a new day for me and the people I know.
Oh, and case anyone is interested in what some of the people who were cranking on
"the no-good bast*rds" panhandling in Halifax last week are up to this week …

http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/1154996.h…
Orson Bean

BTW Paul, that kills me that you would have "federal Liberals from B.C. who snorted when I called Gordon Campbell a Liberal". Like, do these people know anything about the history and composition of the B.C. Liberal Party? The Paul Martinites from the 1990s formed the backbone of the B.C. Liberal Party, at least in terms of organizational bodies and expertise in the urban areas. Marrissen, Cunningham, Kristry Clark, etc. etc. etc. And riddle me this — how different are Gordon Campbell and Paul Martin ideologically anyway? Try this on: which one imposed a carbon tax and banned uranium mining and exploration?