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	<title>Comments on: Torture in Afghanistan v. The Criminal Code</title>
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	<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/</link>
	<description>Canada&#039;s only national weekly current affairs magazine.</description>
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		<title>By: TwoYen</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215622</link>
		<dc:creator>TwoYen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215622</guid>
		<description>The Liberal MPs in the House are lucky to be covered by parliamentary privilege. In my opinion, Dosanjh today in QP came as close as it comes to charging the government with war crimes. This type of hysteria is precisely why it is so difficult to find a middle ground which draws an experience to make our monitoring systems more robust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Liberal MPs in the House are lucky to be covered by parliamentary privilege. In my opinion, Dosanjh today in QP came as close as it comes to charging the government with war crimes. This type of hysteria is precisely why it is so difficult to find a middle ground which draws an experience to make our monitoring systems more robust.</p>
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		<title>By: SeanStok</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215615</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanStok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215615</guid>
		<description>Not all conduct should or ought to be boiled down to a matter of criminal legality.  It&#039;s the absolute lowest standard to set for our public officials.   It&#039;s quite possible to act wrongly, dishonourably, or counterproductively -- all without crossing the line into illegality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all conduct should or ought to be boiled down to a matter of criminal legality.  It&#39;s the absolute lowest standard to set for our public officials.   It&#39;s quite possible to act wrongly, dishonourably, or counterproductively &#8212; all without crossing the line into illegality.</p>
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		<title>By: SeanStok</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215621</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanStok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215621</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t seen a lot of &#039;war criminal&#039; charges being bandied about, and I agree we need to be careful about indulging in hysteria.  That said, I think the crux of concern has a lot to do with the way this government initially handled Colvin&#039;s testimony.  I couldn&#039;t help but notice that MacKay&#039;s legal scholarship instincts weren&#039;t aroused by Mulroney&#039;s input, for example.  All they had to do was &#039;own&#039; the situation.  Not obfuscate, blame others, and engage in the predictable Harperite games.  For those of us who are concerned about the nation&#039;s honour and values, that response did little but create a heck of a lot of suspicion.

I think there&#039;s room for a middle ground of consensus here, where a majority of Canadians find torture unacceptable, but are willing to understand that an imperfect situation like Afghanistan might involve the occasional horrible misstep.  It&#039;s how we address and learn from missteps that can form the basis of consensus, but that requires leadership that values accountability, and that doesn&#039;t see every concern and question as a threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#039;t seen a lot of &#039;war criminal&#039; charges being bandied about, and I agree we need to be careful about indulging in hysteria.  That said, I think the crux of concern has a lot to do with the way this government initially handled Colvin&#039;s testimony.  I couldn&#039;t help but notice that MacKay&#039;s legal scholarship instincts weren&#039;t aroused by Mulroney&#039;s input, for example.  All they had to do was &#039;own&#039; the situation.  Not obfuscate, blame others, and engage in the predictable Harperite games.  For those of us who are concerned about the nation&#039;s honour and values, that response did little but create a heck of a lot of suspicion.</p>
<p>I think there&#039;s room for a middle ground of consensus here, where a majority of Canadians find torture unacceptable, but are willing to understand that an imperfect situation like Afghanistan might involve the occasional horrible misstep.  It&#039;s how we address and learn from missteps that can form the basis of consensus, but that requires leadership that values accountability, and that doesn&#039;t see every concern and question as a threat.</p>
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		<title>By: kcm</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215620</link>
		<dc:creator>kcm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215620</guid>
		<description>&quot;So just what is the agenda here, recovering old ground that was settlled in 2007&quot;

Couldn&#039;t agree more. Leave the dirt under the carpet...if there&#039;s any to be found.

Just referencing the other side isn&#039;t helpful...we are trying to win a hearts and  minds war, right. Having said that i don&#039;t think that holding our selves to impossible standards helps either...after a certain point it can become self flagellation. For me the real issue here is - outside of real negligence - did our officials participate in a cover-up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;So just what is the agenda here, recovering old ground that was settlled in 2007&quot;</p>
<p>Couldn&#039;t agree more. Leave the dirt under the carpet&#8230;if there&#039;s any to be found.</p>
<p>Just referencing the other side isn&#039;t helpful&#8230;we are trying to win a hearts and  minds war, right. Having said that i don&#039;t think that holding our selves to impossible standards helps either&#8230;after a certain point it can become self flagellation. For me the real issue here is &#8211; outside of real negligence &#8211; did our officials participate in a cover-up?</p>
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		<title>By: VinceClortho</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215619</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceClortho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215619</guid>
		<description>Where I agree with you is that they are seperate issues, but I dont think you would disagree that the standards are the same.   In the sense that do you excuse the other side because they are supposed to be bad guys and therefore arent supposed to live up to standards?

To be unable to distinguish is the issue.   The others sides conduct doesnt excuse your own, however, you also need to decide equivalencies.   The issues here are murkey at best, one of speed of compliance, not compliance with norms and standards.   To even breach that topic begins to bring the whole regime in to disrepute when you contrast it with the lack prosecution or attempts at prosectution of the other side.   It is a complete lack of perspective of what was done, what was being done and what the situation is.

War Criminal is now the new racist. When everyone is a war criminal, nobody is.   Goodness even the Red Cross is on Colvin&#039;s butt these days.   So just what is the agenda here, recovering old ground that was settlled in 2007.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where I agree with you is that they are seperate issues, but I dont think you would disagree that the standards are the same.   In the sense that do you excuse the other side because they are supposed to be bad guys and therefore arent supposed to live up to standards?</p>
<p>To be unable to distinguish is the issue.   The others sides conduct doesnt excuse your own, however, you also need to decide equivalencies.   The issues here are murkey at best, one of speed of compliance, not compliance with norms and standards.   To even breach that topic begins to bring the whole regime in to disrepute when you contrast it with the lack prosecution or attempts at prosectution of the other side.   It is a complete lack of perspective of what was done, what was being done and what the situation is.</p>
<p>War Criminal is now the new racist. When everyone is a war criminal, nobody is.   Goodness even the Red Cross is on Colvin&#039;s butt these days.   So just what is the agenda here, recovering old ground that was settlled in 2007.</p>
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		<title>By: SeanStok</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215618</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanStok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215618</guid>
		<description>I take back my earlier statement.  Comparing the actions of our public officials to terrorists is the absolute lowest standard.  My bad - it never occurred to me that anyone would seriously use such groups as the yardstick for measuring our own conduct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take back my earlier statement.  Comparing the actions of our public officials to terrorists is the absolute lowest standard.  My bad &#8211; it never occurred to me that anyone would seriously use such groups as the yardstick for measuring our own conduct.</p>
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		<title>By: VinceClortho</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215617</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceClortho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215617</guid>
		<description>Incredible that this should even be a discussion point when I havent seen a single war crime indictment created against anyone in Al Queda or the Taliban.

Canadian War Cirminals would generally be considered and oxymoron.

We move from the sublime to the ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incredible that this should even be a discussion point when I havent seen a single war crime indictment created against anyone in Al Queda or the Taliban.</p>
<p>Canadian War Cirminals would generally be considered and oxymoron.</p>
<p>We move from the sublime to the ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: TwoYen</title>
		<link>http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/30/torture-in-afghanistan-v-the-criminal-code/comment-page-1/#comment-215616</link>
		<dc:creator>TwoYen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www2.macleans.ca/?p=95081#comment-215616</guid>
		<description>Wow! Is this guy really suggesting that Canadian officials were &quot;unbelievably careless or indfferent to the outcome&quot;? Pleeease! I have a lot more confidence in the officials in DFAIT and elsewhere. Sure, with hindsight, things could have been done differently. But I find it hard to believe that they were careless or indifferent to the possibility of torture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Is this guy really suggesting that Canadian officials were &quot;unbelievably careless or indfferent to the outcome&quot;? Pleeease! I have a lot more confidence in the officials in DFAIT and elsewhere. Sure, with hindsight, things could have been done differently. But I find it hard to believe that they were careless or indifferent to the possibility of torture.</p>
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