Trash

by Andrew Coyne on Monday, November 30, 2009 5:06pm - 180 Comments

Gotta go with the pack on this one — this is just trash:

Let me just say this: living as we do, in a time when some in the political arena do not hesitate before throwing the most serious of allegations at our men and women in uniform, based on the most flimsy of evidence, remember that Canadians from coast to coast to coast are proud of you and stand behind you, and I am proud of you, and I stand beside you.

That’s your prime minister talking, folks, accusing members of Parliament who raise legitimate questions about Canada’s policy on the transfer of prisoners in Afghanistan of smearing “our men and women in uniform.” There is no sense in which this is true. There is no interpretation you can give it that draws it near to the truth. It is not even close.

There are many points of uncertainty in the detainee issue, and some members of the opposition may have leapt to some conclusions about it. But not about the soldiers on the ground. No one that I am aware of has made any criticism of the soldiers who handed over the prisoners to the Afghan security services — only of those who issued the orders to do so.

Coupled with the continuing refusal to release the Colvin memos and other relevant documents — or rather their selective release, to some but not others — it makes it very hard to give the government the benefit of the doubt in this affair. Their story has become more believable, but their every action suggests that they themselves don’t believe it.

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  • Gayle

    Actually, it will only be the liberals fault if the reports of torture were going to the liberal government. I have not heard anyone alleging the liberal government was told of torture. All I hear is the Harper government was told of torture.

  • Kelly

    "some blowhard on AM radio."

    If you listened to his show, you might discover what real Canadians are saying outside your echo chamber.

  • Gayle

    Lots of people are jerks, especially after they have been drinking.

    Try going to a bar in Alberta and saying something supportive of unions, or of the liberals, or of the NDP. Try going into a small town bar NOT wearing something that identifies you as a country/farm girl.

    Yes, I got yelled at a lot in bars before I learned it was best to pretend I was apolitical. I could never pass myself off as anything but a "city girl" though, so I still took a lot of heat.

    Like I said, people are jerks. You cannot judge everyone by the people you meet in bars.

  • Gayle

    That was to ensure the discussion was about the comment, and to put the opposition on the defensive. Just another way to avoid talking about the real issue, because the real issue is something Harper et al are trying to avoid.

  • Gayle

    They were never legally in a stronger position in the Cadman affair.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

    Generally not. Most people, so far as I'm aware, consider Generals to be quasi-politicians/lobbyists, since they're the ones who advise politicians.

    But you keep spinning that. You stand onside the folks who took our soldier's reports and concerns and basically looked for ways to hush them up rather than taking steps to deal with the issue.

  • Mike Stephenson

    From where I stand, it seems pretty evident that the 'chattering class' has been obsessed with so-called torture (but only if they can somehow stick it to the Americans or now Canadians) ever since the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet I have yet to ever read the slightest condemnation of an enemy that does not abide by the Geneva Conventions, deliberately targets women and children by the hundreds if not thousands, and undoubtedly uses torture as a matter of course. I'm sorry but I really don't give a damn what tactics are used against an enemy that operates in this manner, just defeat them and lets not lose more Canadian lives. This is a smear on our troops, and if you can't see it, Andrew, maybe you should think about getting an eye exam.

  • Gayle

    "Their story has become more believable, but their every action suggests that they themselves don’t believe it."

    If their story is true, there is no justification for the way they have conducted themselves.

    Even if they are telling the truth, how do we get past the petty, deeply partisan reaction such as that indicated in your post?

    Is it too much to ask our government to be responsible and to behave like adults and treat Canadians like adults? If they are telling the truth surely this could have been settled weeks ago.

    • ckitching

      "Is it too much to ask our government to be responsible and to behave like adults and treat Canadians like adults? If they are telling the truth surely this could have been settled weeks ago."
      We're talking about the House of Commons, right? Behave like adults? I think I'll quote Rick Mercer on this one:
      "The one thing you can always rely on about Question Period is this: no matter how badly behaved the members were on your last visit, things will have gotten way worse.
      Question Period now is like your grade-seven class if your teacher had left you alone for give minutes to go out for a smoke and never returned. Any pretence of civility has left the building."

  • TicToc

    Harper must be desperate to use that old, old low man point. Canadians know the soldiers do what they're told and Canadians know the orders are from the top down. This is not about patriotism, this is about ignoring important memos that he did read, for 18 months!! That makes him a criminal and he should be pulled from his post until we get a proper inquiry.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

    Vet as a crutch? How stupid. He said what he said. He's a great guy, even though a little crusty at times. But, I think he has a right to his opinion after what he's been through.

    He has the most respect for our current troops.

    Too cowardly to back up my own statements? What statements?

    You're pathetic.

  • Observant

    Ahhh .. finally your beloved Liberals have an issue on which to build their policies and go to Canadians in a general election … TORTURE …!!!

    Colvin will be upheld as a brave whistleblower exposing {{{torture}}} having occurred to the Taliban prisoners they took and handed over to the Afghan authorities.

    Yes !!!! …. the "t" word will rally the Canadian MSM and all Canadians behind lapsed Canadian Ignatieff and his wife who is not a Canadian ….. because Canadians cherish their international reputation more than their principles .. like you Andy ..!!!!

  • TicToc

    Alex Neve, secretary general of Amnesty International Canada, said Buck's comments raise the question how ministers can feel so confident in making conclusive statements that there have been no proven cases of torture, save for one in November 2007.
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    You'd certainly discover what real Americans are thinking.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    You have yet to read the slightest condemnation of the Taliban? Perhaps you should get an Internet connection.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

    With this government, you can't

  • burlivespipe

    I question both of your knowledge of 'a tune'…

  • catherine

    Agreed and it shows that Harper doesn't care if everyone knows he is trash talking, as long as he doesn't have to talk about the real issue. As Andrew Coyne put it, the behavior of someone who does not believe his own story.

  • burlivespipe

    Forget the supposed war criminals, I just want to go to the grocery store and whisper and stare at 'the geek they let out of the cupboard' called pisclone.

  • hollinm

    There will be no inquiry. Are you going to bring a pile of people in front of a judge and try to prove something that is impossible to prove. Are you going to find the detainees and bring them back to Canada to testify. If our detainees were tortured don't you think there would be some evidence by now? There are national security issues to be considered here. Oh, I know don't worry about it. Right? How does that help Canada by accusing the government of war crimes. Are we not worried about own reputation would be hurt just so we can try to prove something that happened two and half years ago. You do gooders make me sick. The country is at war. Our soldiers are being blown up and all you can think about is detainees that may or may not have been tortured. Its disgusting.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

    Andrew…you are beginning to sound like the NDP. Sanctimonious!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

    Question: Once you have the answers what would you do about something that allegedly happened in 2006?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Geiseric Geiseric

    He does better than just get away with it which means the shame is on us.

  • John Q. Public

    How come you rant on about this, but ignore the Climategate documents. Which has a bigger impact globally?

  • Andre

    If detainees were/are being tortured then I'm afraid it's too late for our reputation. If we don't willingly investigate our own practices on peace keeping/making missions then our military reputation worldwide will be hurt.

    Don't believe for a second this will not bite us back in 10, 15, 20 years time.

  • Optimist

    I believe that unlike Wallin and Duffy Mr. Coyne has way to much integrity to accept even if it were offered. I do not agree with all of his positions but in defending them he never stoops to the abuse and personnal attacks which typify the Harper conservatives. As Mr Coyne points out, what is being attacked is the doubtful integrity and competance of the government. That as the lying cowards that they are they choose to try to hide behind our troops is despicable. No further proof is needed that they are not fit to be the government of Canada.

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