I must have missed your post where you talked about policy. It was simply a rant and then went on to call Baird all kinds of names. You are one ignorant dude.

Iffy has no policies so the only thing you can do is attack him personally whether you like it or not.

If you want to have accountability then we would need to reduce the House to virtually nobody. The opposition also should be held accountable for the questions they ask after they virtually have made a speech before they ask their inane questions. Trouble is the Conservatives play the game too well and they are often embarassed or shown to be uninformed.

You mean, like: not putting us in deficit, not increasing spending, not allowing floor crossings, governing by principle instead of the polls, not taxing income trusts, not increasing our taxes, appointing a Public Appointments Commissioner, vetting all Supreme Court Nominees in public hearings, getting wait time guarantees, being transparent and accountable, not allowing staffers to become lobbyists… etc.

Harper has broken more promises in the last 4 years than the last 4 Prime Ministers put together.

So to the Liberal supporters, I would like to say "get off your soap boxes" This government has been one of the better ones in years.

No one will agree with everything that each government does, but I believe most would think we are better off with this government than a NDP or Liberal one. As all we see from the NPD's is a man who will never be the PM, and from the Liberals a very broken party, who does nothing but criticize this government for problems that they inherited from them, I.E Afghanistan

Torture is not something we want pinned to the CF and the only way to avoid that labeling is for the government to come forth with all the documents, un-redacted. So far we only have this latest update, seen and logged by a brave Master Corporal and a brave Colonel.

Torture isn't palatable in western nation, now the holier-than-thou Conservative government REFUSES to support the troops in the field, at the pointy end, by coming out with the TRUTH.

Oh, Fred, the last time we dealt with torture and death was our Somalia scene. I assume you know that the cavalier leadership on scene at that time was Col. Labbe. Please know that now Mr. Labbe was Mr. Hillier's right hand man in Kabul, as was the current CDS working for the Bravado General in Afghanistan. Let me close with a repeat question from above: who ya gonna believe, the the Generals, present and past, or the MCpl and Col who were at the scene of detainee handover activity??? Your call.

If you asked knowledgeable Canadians the same questions, a larger majority still.

Insults are what he does in place of doing his job, and he ought to be removed, not for being annoying and insulting, but for failing to be accountable.

Or do you honestly believe that the Afghan jailers cohorted the detainees by who captured them and then only tortured the ones who weren't turned over by the Canadians? Becasue if that's the case it should have been easy for the Red Cross or anyone to track the Canadian detainees in their specially marked No Torture cells.

This is indeed about Harper. It is about the fact he lied to us. It is about the fact he may have been complicit in the torture of prisoners. It is about the fact he fails to take responsibility, each and every time he is confronted with his own failures. It is about the fact he would prefer to lie and to twist this into an attack on the military, and in the process, hide behind them.

"The opposition can continue to blather all they want but your buddy heading the Liberal party is the only person other than Harper that can be elected to the job of PM. He has little credibility with many Canadians and so the only choice is Harper whether you like it or not."

Which has what to do with questioning Harper on his government's responsibilities? Oh yeah – nothing. I don't care if the Liberal Party decides to fold tomorrow, that does not mean the opposition and the media should not be trying to get to the bottom of this. Harper does not get to ignore his responsibilities just because some people think Ignatieff has no credibility.

But outright lies and a cover-up, that's a whole different ball game. Why should anyone, including the people in his department, or the suppliers who negotiate contracts believe anything Peter Mackay ever says again?

Very reckless and stupid behaviour.

By the way, which "children" are you referring to? The members opposite?

Sadly, holinm practices old and very tired Con tricks. Attack the messenger. Go after credibility. Deflect the issue.

The issue I raised concerned Mr. Baird and his inability to answer serious charges in an adult way. btw, the very low quality of Mr. Harper's "team" also speaks volumes about the PM's lack of leadership skills!

That kind of hyperbole isn't helpful. First, when you send your army into a hostile territory, there's going to be casualties. It's not like the Taliban forces are attacking civilians in our shopping malls. We need to drop the faux outrage that somebody might actually return fire on our soldiers.

Second, while any casualties are too many, I think we're a bit short of 'slaughter.' An old friend of mine was on the beaches for D-Day. That was slaughter.

Finally, if your core humanity and compassion only extends to Canadians, I don't know what to say. We're clearly approaching the world from radically different starting points.

None of this is meant to diminish the sacrifice of our soldiers and their families. Not for a second. If anything, I think it respects them more to avoid using their efforts as a symbolic club to beat the nuance and respect out of our discourse.

You people could care less about detainees being tortured. Its all about getting Harper.

The opposition can continue to blather all they want but your buddy heading the Liberal party is the only person other than Harper that can be elected to the job of PM. He has little credibility with many Canadians and so the only choice is Harper whether you like it or not.

By the way I need no lectures from sombody like you who would criticize Harper even if he discovered a cure for cancer or was able to walk on water.

It is not clear whether Colvin witnessed first hand or simply was told by others that torture was taking place. So it is not simply as you say it is. He was not outside the wire often and in fact wrote the time he visited the prison conditions were not too bad.

Hypothetically…..what would we as a country do if we concretely learn that our detainees were tortured? Put Stephen Harper and the country on trial etc. etc.

The opposition could force an election and guess what Canadians do not care about Afghans allegedly torturing Afghans. They do not want Iffy as PM and so they would re-elect Stephen Harper.

This is war. Bad things happen. It is only the arm chair quaterbacks sitting in their comfy chairs in Ottawa who see the world and the war as black and white.

They are all part of the military indeed. But "the troops" i.e. the soldiers on the ground and the top military brass are not the same thing. To accuse the generals of not knowing the truth, being wilfully blind to the truth or ignoring warnings about the truth… is not anywhere near the same thing as saying our troops knew the detainees would be tortured.

Our soldiers are good and disciplined and honourable. They follow orders. They trust that those orders are sound. They trust that the government is going to do what it says it was going to do, i.e. monitor for torture after handover. In fact, the government did monitor, otherwise Colvin would not have been sent to check things out. However, they chose to ignore what Colvin had to say about circumstances.

Interesting.

Thus hollinm, famous logician. I can't remember the last time you added anything to any debate.

Though I have to ask why you care about the opposition attacking the government and the media reporting on it if you also think most Canadians just do not care about torture. Seems to me you should not care about it either then.

This is not a "call an election or shut up" scenario. In fact, such a scenario does not exist. Opposition parties are responsible for holding the government to account for their actions. The opposition is absolutely correct to hammer away at the government over this. The government does not get to crawl their way out of this by demanding the opposition vote non-confidence in them. Harper can call his own election if that is how he feels.

The Liberals know damn well that their position at Copenhagen would be virtually identical to that currently being taken by the government. No government in Canada can afford the economic consequences that would happen if Canada were to veer too far from from the USA position on climate change. Indeed, as an academic, one of Ignatieff's problems is that deep down he knows the policies a Liberal government would adopt are close to what Harper has adopted.

Why all of you anti Harper gripers can bitch and moan the fact is most Canadians could care less about Afghans torturing Afghans. After all they are slaughtering our men and women. So there is not much sympathy. Don't ask me. Ask Craig Oliver over at CTV the resident grouch.

Instead focus on Iffy with his bushy eyebrows fluttering up and down, his scrunched mean look and his lizard like tongue constantly licking his lips and the lanquid way he stands, sits and walks. That will draw your attention from Baird.