Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Categories: Capital Read, Inkless Wells

The continental approach to energy and the environment

by Paul Wells on Monday, December 14, 2009 1:49pm - 105 Comments

It’s going well.

Tags: black holes, Jim Prentice

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http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Yes, in hindsight it was foolish to base our continental approach to energy and the environment on hastily arranged photo ops. Now it's in tatters.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

I'd love to see any other evidence anyone can provide that any current U.S. citizen is even aware of the existence of the fabled continental approach. So far the best anyone has produced was an op-ed in the National Post.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Didn't you make the same point about the Canada-EU trade agreement? That it was only mentioned in Europe when Canada visited?

But, I see your point – of course, if there were a continental approach, whenever the Obama administration discussed climate change policy, Obama would stop the proceedings and say "this is all very good, but are you getting the message out that we're talking to Canada about this?"
Dot

He who has the gold, writes the rules.

André

Would that be the golden rule of continental policy making?
rockfish

Maybe someone should call the RCMP about that, then. Re missing gold from the mint…

http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

It's raining straw men today. First, "average" Americans. Now, "whenever." No, not "whenever." But once would be nice. I know Richard Holbrooke is working with the Pakistanis on Afghanistan because he's often in Pakistan talking about it. I know Hillary Clinton hopes to make progress on trade with China because she's been spotted in China talking about trade.

So that's strike three. But I'm feeling generous. Wanna make another try?

Mulletaur

Huh, I've been looking high and low in U.S. newspapers, not a sausage. Only a single mention on the White House blog related to Obama's visit to Canada under the title "Bilateral Energy and Climate Partnerships" :

"Bilateral Energy and Climate Partnerships: The U.S. is accelerating its collaboration with China, India, Mexico, Canada and other key international partners to combat climate change, coordinate clean energy research and development, and support the international climate talks."

The embeded link in the White House Web page links to the presser held 16 September with Harper when Obama visited. Otherwise, nothing. Lots of stuff about energy cooperation with China on the White House site, though.

http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

right, and today there are representative of the US in Copenhagen working with literally hundreds of countries, but as a hint, the US in a member of the same continent of two other countries and while both those countries are in Copenhagen and mentioned on that WH blog, a "continental approach to energy and the environment" is not mentioned.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

You make it too easy, Paul.

"Mr. Obama seemed interested in thinkers like Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmund Freud and Jean-Paul Sartre, whom he studied in a political thought class in his sophomore year."
TedTylerEzro

Apropos of nothing, I loathe continental philosophy. I resent every gram of lingering influence.
kcm

Well the photo ops was for "us"wasn't it? No one seriously believes there really was a campaign to convince Americans we mattered to them, do they? Wasn't it always about convincing us that that we mattered to them? Almost had me Harper there for a moment…maybe fox will give you[us] a partial refund?
i wonder if we wouldn't have garnered more respect by having our own policy in the environmental and energy fields? They do say familiarity breeds contempt…so what does being craven get you?
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

It must have been a unilateral continentalist approach. Sort of like: "We'll agree to implement whatever climate change policy the Americans eventually agree to implement."

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"Sort of like: "We'll agree to implement whatever climate change policy the Americans eventually agree to implement."

I don't even think it's that. Aren't Cons using inaction in America as cover for their own inaction? Cons are counting on Congress to not do anything while trying to sound Statesman like about continental approaches. EPA is talking about declaring CO2 a pollutant and taking regulatory action and if Cons wanted to they could follow along I believe.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

"Aren't Cons using inaction in America as cover for their own inaction? Cons are counting on Congress to not do anything while trying to sound Statesman like about continental approaches."

About that… What's with this "so long as we do the same as Obama, we'll be ok" strategy that we keep seeing with this govt?

Do they actually believe that Canadians will give them a pass for matching Obama's actions?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Bartolomeo Bartolomeo

"Do they actually believe that Canadians will give them a pass for matching Obama's actions? "

They probably do and they're probably right.

kcm

"Aren't Cons using inaction in America as cover for their own inaction? Cons are counting on Congress to not do anything while trying to sound Statesman like about continental approaches"

If that is the case, and it certainly sounds plausible, then it's no great surprise if Obama gives them the cold shoulder. After all as PW has pointed out,it's not as if they need us in this context. In fact i'm a little surprised that Obama hasn't already tried to distance himself and generally call Harper's bluff on this…sadly we may not even rate high enough even for that.

burlivespipe

Unlike the provinces and municipalities whom have to sign Harper's contract of obedience to get their photo op/giant novelty cheques, Obama gets nothing out of being used by Harper. Likely, the more he sees of our so-called leader squeamishly grinning on Fox news, the less he feels compelled to do his northern neighbour any favours.

Ted

That's their "made-in-Canada" plan… only it was drafted by an American

burlivespipe

And isn't that quaint? Who's drawing up Harper's action plan on anything but Flanagan et al, refugees from the republicans?

Richard

Which would seem fitting, seeing as we seem to have all-party agreement that a U.S. regulatory agency should set the rules for hydroelectric transmission between provinces.
http://intensedebate.com/people/George_Pringle George_Pringle

Ahh, since we made our committement already, the Americans are following us and not going as far as us.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

Bingo. Finally.

kcm

"Bingo. Finally."

Ah…is that a tip of the hat to realpolitc? If so, then presumably no independent Canadian made solution would fly.[ i don't think there are any strawmen here...but please remember it is almost christmas...and steak knifes would make a fine gift]
Riley Hennessey

Are the Americans going to eventually agree to do something? Cause I've heard lots of talk about closing Guantanamo, dropping Don't Ask Don't Tell, healthcare, bank reform, jobs, trimming the deficit, and saving the environment but I'm not sure I've seen anything concrete yet? Lots of bills on the table tho…. lots of bills.

David B.

Now the facts …..spread far and wide please.

April 13, 2006: Three months after his election, Harper quietly cancelled 15 federal programs meant to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. This announcement was made on a Thursday afternoon before the Easter long weekend, presumably in an effort to sweep this important policy shift under the carpet.

The axed programs included the "One Tonne Challenge" as well as the Energuide program, which provided incentives to retrofit 300,000 Canadian homes since the late 1990s — saving on average 30 per cent in energy use. Also cut were 40 public information offices across the country and several scientific and research programs on climate change.

These cuts were made in spite of the fact that a recent Treasury Board review had determined the majority of these programs were cost effective.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/01/24/GreenMirage/

André

Energuide was not cancelled completely. The federal program was shut down but the funding for EcoEnergy remained to complement whatever provincial governments implemented for their EcoEnergy programs.

As a side note, as of March 31 2011 the EcoEnergy program will no longer provide funding for retrofits. Instead the audit will become mandatory for new home owners. If you haven't had the audit done on your house now is the time. This is the only link I could find that confirmed the news.

http://www.reepwaterlooregion.ca/news_ecoenergy_2…
anti conservative

Yes but for the Harperites cost effectiveness is irrelevant; programs must conform with blind ideology (the only thing conservatives have going for them … they certainly dont have any real ideas since they are not equipped to produce them).
hosertohoosier

Yes, if only we had implemented those programs today we would have met Kyoto. That was Martin/Chretien's plan all along, I'm sure. They knew that minor subsidies for retrofitting houses would convince so many people to do it, that they let emissions rise 25%, so it'd be more of a challenge. Unfortunately, Stephen Harper purposely destroyed this program because he wants global warming to happen, giving him beachfront property in Las Vegas.

TedTylerEzro

Was there anyone under an impression that it was anything else?

I mean, it wasn't like there was a plan to sign a treaty between Canada and the US right?

kcm

"Was there anyone under an impression that it was anything else"?

Is that a claim to pragmatic realism on the part of this govt?
André

Well, I may have thought Harper was looking for inspiration from Custard's memoirs.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

It's nice to read it before you loathe it.

TedTylerEzro

I've read all three of the men you quoted, does that count?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

Excerpts really don't count. You can't dismiss Flaubert after one novel, he's too great. Likewise with Nietzsche. Anyway, continental philosophy is really a form of art, so what a scholastic philosopher thinks of it is about as relevant as what an engineer thinks of Rubens.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

Excerpts don't count. Kind of like a totally unsupported opinion.

TedTylerEzro

My, where is this assumption that I haven't read entire works of continental philosophy? I did get a philosophy undergraduate degree after all. Are you under the impression that everybody who reads it must be struck with appreciation for it? Look at the horribly innacurrate history that Hegel uses to inform his Phenomenology of Spirit, or the completely discredited psychoanalysis of Freud, or the adolescent grousing of Neitzche.

As for Satre… well… http://pvspade.com/Sartre/cookbook.html

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

"I did get a philosophy undergraduate degree after all."

Hahahaha.
TedTylerEzro

Not long enough to spell his name right apparently. But really Jack, I am fairly well read besides my education as well. I just pointed out the fact that I have an undergrad in philosophy simply because I couldn't get one of those without reading continental philsophers. I certainly have read "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", "Beyond Good and Evil", and the posthumous "Will to Power".

A couple weeks ago you prided yourself as being so confident about medieval historians that you believed that they were incapable of being critical about historical sources because their consciousness was more credible to myth. How many medieval historians did you read and how many weeks to you spend on medieval historians before you came to that conclusion hmm?

Oh and of course, the enlightenment was what dismantled that myth-laden consciousness, even though continental philosophy is all about fleeing from empiricism and constructing myths about the zeitgeist, and the evolution of society to the primitive to the enlightened, the dominance of the unconscious , materialistic determinism and all the other garbage ideology that continental philosophy has spewed out over the last couple centuries. Myth-laden indeed.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Wait, you lead off with the idea that the lack of a photo op suggests there's a lack of a policy, and my points aren't serious enough?

I don't imagine crafting a continental approach is a major consideration for the Americans as their first major climate change legislation takes shape, but I do see some flaws with your reporting. First, you're discounting any Americans who do talk about this as "blowing sunshine up Canadian asses". Second, the photo op wasn't happening outside a meeting that actually was happening. But, of course, we aren't in the meeting, and any reference to cooperation that comes out of the meeting would just be sunshine-blowing.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

I'm sure this doesn't count, but here's a recent Council on Foreign Relations report that "argues that it is important to integrate U.S. and Canadian cap-and-trade systems, while warning against the risks of a Canada-only cap-and-trade scheme and against an ill-designed U.S. low-carbon fuel standard." But, it;'s by an American and it talks about a continental approach.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/19468/canadian_oil…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

I'm sure this doesn't count, but here's a recent Council on Foreign Relations report that "argues that it is important to integrate U.S. and Canadian cap-and-trade systems, while warning against the risks of a Canada-only cap-and-trade scheme and against an ill-designed U.S. low-carbon fuel standard." But, it;'s by an American and it talks about a continental approach.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/19468/canadian_oil…

Mike T.

That sounds very likely.
TedTylerEzro

er, men you mentioned.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

Our long national nightmare is over. You've managed to find an American who thinks a continental approach would be a good idea. That's almost as good as finding one who thinks it's happening. Oh wait — no it isn't.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

You could also ask Todd Stern, Hillary Clinton's climate envoy, about his visit to Canada in October. He mentioned it at a briefing, but none of the American journalists followed up with questions. Shocking.

Bill Simpson

I think you have it exactly right. As an out and out "denier", I have always applauded Harper's take on this, and by positioning himself well behind the US Congress, he expected to play this out.

The EPA gambit will be more problematic, but it is not certain that the EPA will get is way.

I don't know why the political flaks are getting so excited. It would be smarter to lay low. It looks like the various beggar states may price themselves out of this, particularly if China and India stay away from anything meaningful.

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"I don't know why the political flaks are getting so excited."

I am denier as well but wish Cons would take lead in talking about how AGW is not happening. Even many climatologists agree that it is 'peculiar' that amount of CO2 in atmosphere continues to increase but global temp is not increasing along with emissions.

Canadians say they believe in AGW but when asked to put money where mouth is they balk. Cons are doing essentially same thing – saying they want continental approach while secretly hoping Americans don't do anything, which is looking increasingly likely. Canada is talking out both sides of its mouth on this issue.

TedTylerEzro

I'm just confused about the point Paul is trying to make. Did the government claim that there was a joint initiative in the works? Or was the rhetoric implying that there was cooperation between the two governments on the issue of emissions-reduction policy?

Ted

The former. It was his excuse for not doing anything, i.e. can't do anything yet because we're working with the Americans to finalize a joint continental plan.

TedTylerEzro

Ah, then the egg on Prentice's face is well deserved.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

Right, in forty-five minutes while doing other stuff, I found a book-length treatment of the topic by an influential American think-tank that argues this is a central issue in US energy policy. Clearly no professional reporter could possibly find an American to talk to about this and figure out how it actually fits into American policy-making. Let's go back to making fun of the Harper administration's photos, or hilarious lack of photos…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

Wow, touchy. Christie, is that you?
Riley Hennessey

I agree with Wells' point here…. I think a lot of us think it would be a great idea if it WERE happening….but there is not a shred of evidence that it IS happening. Lots of anecdotes about how good it would be…. but no red meat.

His point about Hillary really hits home. Nobody from Obama's administration is giving us a lick of attention. How ironic is it that McCain (who actually campaigned in Ottawa and recently visited Halifax and talks openly about how much help we've been in Afghanistan and who ALSO believes in the importance of combating climate change) has been scorned by us, but our adored Obama can't even pick up the phone to call our PM.

Bottom line… nobody in Obama's administration gives a toss about our roll in Copenhagen or our continental approach. It's sad really.

burlivespipe

Perhaps it's equally the responsibility of our so-called leader to take said issue seriously — why else would one enter discussions on a topic like climate or energy if one side was just happy to muse about it at photo-op day? Harper has continuously used any idea of action as a prop to deploy when there's serious questions on it. We know he doesn't even believe in it because all his key talking-point minions are out and about loudly proclaiming climate change as really a fabrication of our imagination.

Dot

yes, of the golden age.

Now, the intercontinental recognition of the golden rule can find its antecedent in this fine display of culture back in 2006:

Alberta's Gift to Culture

By Alan Freeman
The (Toronto) Globe and Mail

The venerable Smithsonian holds an annual event focusing on folk arts and crafts. This year Alberta will park a massive dump truck there to tell the story of the oil sands…
http://www.commercialalert.org/issues/government/…

Int'l backpackers, beware.
André

Looks like Alberta got the meanings of the words "folk" and "art" wrong.

Could be worse. They could have held a Social Credit rally in display.

Dot

If truth be told, this was a replacement for the Tyrell Museum living exhibit. Ralph wouldn't sit still. Something about early retirement: Freedom 55.

André

"You've got me at free"

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Hey Hennessey? At least THEY have an actual enviro bill to look at and debate. We've got nothing.