Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Categories: Capital Read, Inkless Wells

Well, thank God for Prentice

by Paul Wells on Friday, December 18, 2009 9:13pm - 139 Comments

From the Inkless emailbox, this news release from the PMO:

STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA

Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued the following statement on the occasion of the closing of the 15th Climate Change conference in Copenhagen:

“This agreement is the result of two weeks of negotiations in which Canada and Environment Minister Prentice, our chief negotiator, played a key part.

“And over the past 24 hours, I have met with numerous leaders to reaffirm that Canada remains committed to a comprehensive, post-2012 agreement that is fair and effective.

“All countries must commit to taking concrete action to address climate change as part of a new treaty – actions which are measurable, verifiable and reportable.

“Canada is working to align our clean energy and climate change policies with those of the Obama Administration. This approach recognizes the high degree of integration of our two economies.

“Canada is prepared to contribute our fair share of financial support, particularly to the poorest and most vulnerable nations.”

Tags: Prentice was synonymous with the negotiations, which is why nobody else noticed or mentioned him

More by Paul Wells

wilson

“This agreement is the result of two weeks of negotiations in which Canada and Environment Minister Prentice, our chief negotiator, played a key part.''

And that would explain the agreement looking like what Harper has been saying for 4 years.
Well done!

Gayle

Yes. Truly amazing "leadership".

http://intensedebate.com/people/john_g2708 john g

Actually, truth be told I've felt a little bad for you media folks about Copenhagen. I mean, it must have been just brutal to have to write about it without being able to fall back on the usual narrative about how Canada is the black hatted villain of the climate world, what with China, the US, and all the third world boycotters doing their best to destroy the conference.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

You're right. It was hell.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

I'm trying to find a news story that credits Prentice with playing a key role (other than stories quoting Prentice explaining what a key role he played, of course.)

Dot

A picture of him with his US counterpart will do.
wilson

You will have to look to international media for any credit given to the Harper government. Our national media would rather poke sharp objects in their eyeballs than file this under 'another win for Harper'.

from the Telegraph.co.uk:

''Here’s a prediction: after it’s all over, the last man standing at the BS Corral may well turn out to be Stephen Harper – Conservative prime minister of Canada….(she was right)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/rachelmarsden/1…

Dot

Doubtful, but the Tyee apparently does.

http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2007/04/05/RMarsden/

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

There is the whole batsh*t crazy thing. But I figure in wilson's world that passes for integrity and intellectual merit.

Dot

The press, which had been feasting on Marsden for seven years, also tore her apart for fudging her online résumé, on which she claimed to have assisted Connie Chung at ABC (ABC denied at the time that anyone by her name had ever been employed at the network) and that her writing had appeared in the National Post and Maclean's magazine (at the time, she had only had letters to the editor printed in either publication).

I guess we all fit that category…
http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

LOL!

And Critical Reasoning is now a key advisor to the Defence Minister.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Heh. I should put that on my CV!
Dot

Perfect. You could also mention that you have second highest class marks:

http://wm.careers.adicio.com/careers/jobsearch/de…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Unfortunately, as a Canadian citizen, I'm not eligible.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

Rachel Marsden has campaigned for the Conservatives. And the piece is pure opinion. So much for you lecturing folks to think for themselves.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Fish_30 Al O'Wishes

Yes, nothing like the unbiased opinion of Rachel Marsden to show the way. Who do you suggest as a source of unbiased opinion on religion? The Pope?
burlivespipe

Wilson, be careful. Quoting Rachel may lead to Rachel stalking you. Man, woman, fish or fowl, she will drag your name into the mud and turn your reputation into a cocktail dress that Tiger couldn't find…

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

“Canada is prepared to contribute our fair share of financial support, particularly to the poorest and most vulnerable nations.”

Canada might be prepared but this Canadian isn't. I would rather not have my money sent to Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Zimbabwe …. list is long, actually. Are any of the "poorest and most vulnerable nations" democracies, do they respect rule or law or property rights? Why do we send money to authoritarian regimes at all. Harper use to understand this, too bad he talks like that now. Harper must be so proud.

Though I am grateful Harper is delaying "clean energy and climate change policies", I wish he or Prentice would just come out and say agw is the latest attempted swindle by the watermelons and is not actually occurring as predicted.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

Check the bottom of this thread – all is revealed…

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/12/18/a-page-out-of-…
PassThePork

Why not? You are already spending tens of billions in Afghanistan… by far our largest "foreign assistance" spending, ever… and it's a goodly chunk of the 58 billion deficit for this year.

Afghanistan doesn't meet your tests – respect for rule of law; it is an authoritarian regime.

PS: Don't forget… Saudi Arabia is a key ally of our key ally. Last I checked they were not terrible poor.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Zimbabwe

Venezuela doesn't even come close to belonging on this list, gasbag. They're more democratic than we are now.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AJR79 AJR79

Reality check comrade.
I know you're not really interested in reality but…

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM…

http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

I know you're not really interested in reality but…

Sure I am. Here's the reality:
"CNB was one of 34 radio stations that regulators closed, saying some failed to update their registrations or allowed their concessions to expire while others held licenses granted to an operator now deceased."

It's no different than what our regulator does; except to kooks who see konspiracies behind everything that happens in Venezuela.

http://intensedebate.com/people/AJR79 AJR79

You must be refering to those "kooks" at "reporters without borders".

They must be in the pocket of big buisness.

Let's examine what the "kooks" at freedom house have to say:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=140…

Your statement that Venezuela is more democratic then Canada shows you to be so radical in your political views, that any amount of curtailment of our freedoms is acceptable for a more socialist vision.

In other words you are deluded, and repulsive.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

As Democratic as Cuba, China?

Got to love fascists. Let me guess you think Stalin was a great economist and leader right?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

Riiiight, 'cause the one group Stalin got along famously with were the Fascists…

(Do try and keep your hyperbole coherent please)

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

You prefer a different title? Genocidical dictator?

I was impressed by the Liberal photo contest including Harper with dictators and despots who comitted crimes against humanity. A lovely bunch of coconuts these Liberals.
[youtube gu06KK_Yzuc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu06KK_Yzuc&fe... youtube]

DPT

You are truly bag of sh't robert, you know no bounds of stupidity, do you really believe what you write?
http://intensedebate.com/people/AJR79 AJR79

It must be their 25% voter turnout in their last election that makes you think of them as "more democratic than we are now".

Here's another fun fact:

"In March 2005, the penal code was revised to make insulting the president a crime punishable by six to 30 months in prison."

When Harper passes that one comrade, you are in some LARGE trouble.

Just be thankful you live in a country where dissent is not criminally punishable, or feel free to move to a place where it is.

herringchoker

From what I heard, the accord could have been drafted by Rona Ambrose…hey wait a minute, that's why it sounds so familiar.

wilson

Exactly.

robert

Steve would have done more for Canada AND the environment if he hadn't wasted the fuel to fly to Copenhagen. Seems Obama had the same warm feelings about Harper; he didn't invite Steve to the private meeting held with selected world leaders.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

They met later the same day for lunch, I believe.
wilson

I have no expectations of our national media clearing that nonfact up.
But, note that only a handful of country reps met for the final agreement,
that's because, as Harper explained in the media scrum, the US represented a group of nations, including Canada.

Guess if you gave it some thought instead of letting the media do your thinking for you, you could have figured that out.

ERB

Here is why Harper was not at the meeting. A, if there is such a thing as AGW, Canada is but a trivial part of it, less than 2%. B, Canada is already on the record as saying it will act in consort with the US?

So, in a meeting ostensibly to save the world, why would we be invited. We are not really part of the problem and our intentions are already weel know.

Besides, it’s not much of a secret that Harper thinks climate change is a bunch of BS that’s going nowhere, and in the spirit of the Copenghagen meeting and in the ways things work in the world of climate change, dissenting voices are not wanted and are quashed wherever they appear.

It would be better if Harper had spent time undoing the shame that David Miller and Greenpeace brought to our country.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

Aw, not another elaborate hoax. Somebody yank that rubber "Prentice" mask off the guy.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

Kyoto was the high water mark.

Expect successive "climate change" conferences to peter out. As both the uncertain sceince behind this becomes more fully recognized(notwithstanding the media's lockstep efforts), and the pragmatic economic realities set in,

this whole frantic affair to "save the planet" will be viewed in hindsight as an almost inexplicable lemming like bizarre craze.

Almost inexplicable, that is, because the media's dying days will be remembered by its willingness to uncritically parrot the greatest farce of our times, because it is what they oh so wanted to believe.

PassThePork

Hey big bad biff, point to the farce. Illustrate exactly where the disconnect is, in excruciating detail.

Warning – if you are going to simply parrot – your word – some "climategate" email taken out of context or indeed any data point taken out of context then we get to flog you with the dirty socks of Dr. Phil Jones. You aren't allowed to point to Glen Beck urls or videos on YouTube made by insane angry people.

Put up or shut up, in other words.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

How many levels? Let me see:

Let's start broad and work our way towards the center.

The planet's climate has always been changing. Warming has happened repeatedly, including just recently in the medieval warming period. Of course there's also this little bit of warming that melted miles thick of ice from the ice age before that.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

The only "science" behind AGW are theories and models. No "proof". To the extent that the model have been tested they've failed. The predicted skyrocketing heating by now, but the last ten years have showed cooling. In any other paradigm, this would be considered a disproven theory. In "climate science" it's still proof even though it "proves" the opposite. As for the models themselves, forget the "Harryreadmefile" for a moment, models aren't even close to being able to predict something of the complexity of climate, particularily given the still unknown variables. The notion of "consensus" is bunk. There are a a myriad of highly reputable scientists at the world's most esteemed institutions ranging from minor opposition, to calls of fraudulent data manipulation. (None of this you'll read from the press, as this is their pet issue of the generation.)

This is all before the climategate emails, which more or less affirm what was already known, just not publicised.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

And the beauty of it all? The press' lockstep reporting of pro AGW, their complete absence of any semblence of context, and their absolute compliance with warmists' desires to black out any dissenting opinions,

have failed. Virtually every poll is showing the public moving towards the skeptics position. Why? The light of truth shines on this all. The media gatekeepers keep a watchful eyes on the gates while the walls come crumbling down around them.

Take a look at any MSM AGW article, then look if comments are allowed. It's like there's a parallel universe. The commenters are outraged at the parroting of that which the public refuses to believe based on the real data they are getting from the sources (Micheal Mann's article for the Washington Post was a howler, check out the comments there, for an example).

It's over. Oh, it may take a few months or even years to completely die, but it's over. The media? They'll likely not survive this, not in their present form.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

"Take a look at any MSM AGW article, then look if comments are allowed."

Uh, biff, I'm looking at one right now and reading your comments. Global conspiracy FAIL.
http://intensedebate.com/people/c_9 c_9

Um biff, I think that "put up or shut up" didn't mean "please rant semi-randomly". It means post some SCIENCE. If you just believe that global warming isn't happening or that god did it or that hamsters did it or that humans are too little to ever damage an ecosystem, that's fine, but if you think the science truly is flawed, then show your own. That's how science works. Not one link? That equals zero evidence, zero credibility.

wilson

I think the onus is on the scientific community to prove they did not use a 'trick' to 'hide the decline'.

The environuts blew it.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2009/11/…
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Actually according the COP15 you guy blew and Monica will need to find a drycleaner.

Better luck next with the wealth distribution programs masquerading as Science.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

As soon as the Cabal provide the models and data for outside reviews.

Those 20-50 who controlled the process and stopped dissent will be investigated. Forgot about the UN for Oil Program?

The Organized Crime involvement in Cap and Trade in Europe?

John W.

The "media's dying days". What does that mean?

Wascally Wabbit

And this of course – is what he has always asked for – that the US move first and we will align.
Of course – that was then (i.e. Bush-world where Bush love of Texas Oil even exceeded Harper love of Tar) – and this is now.
Careful – Premier Stelmack – I have a feeling that PM Harper may be looking for a pound or three of your flesh to appease the BC / Ontario / Quebec lions…

http://intensedebate.com/people/charlesh Charles H.

Exactly what he has always asked for! Except when he was promising us we were "Turning the Corner" with a "Made in Canada" solution.

burlivespipe

You mean like the 'made in Bellingham WA Canada action signs' and the 'made in Illinois Canadian olympic pavilion? Harper himself is just a stepford child with an inflated ego, bolted together in Larouche's New Hampshire barn…

André

That is such a cookie cutter statement…

Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued the following statement on the occasion of the closing of (some) conference in (somewhere):

“This agreement is the result of two weeks of negotiations in which Canada and Defense Minister MacKay, our chief negotiator, played a key part.

“And over the past 24 hours, I have met with numerous leaders to reaffirm that Canada remains committed to a comprehensive, post-2012 agreement that is fair and effective.

“All countries must commit to taking concrete action to address terrorism as part of a new treaty – actions which are measurable, verifiable and reportable.

“Canada is working to align our peace-making and peace-keeping policies with those of the Obama Administration. This approach recognizes the high degree of integration of our two economies.

“Canada is prepared to contribute our fair share of financial support, particularly to the poorest and most vulnerable nations.”

It says nothing at all.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Much like the "very important first step" that was achieved in Copenhagen in lieu of an actual accord.

Andre

So they realise how important the accord was because they had to issue a press release saying nothing at all. Why then didn't they bother working on the accord in the first place. What did they think it was a tea party?

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

One of my favourite media abuses (there are so, so many to chose from) was a long article from the globe talking about a receding arctic ice. Oh, sure there was lack of context showing the northern pass had been ice free previously, that the ice extent fluctuates: always has, always will, and that the extent had almost fully regained to "normal levels" by the time of the article,

the funniest part was after twenty or so paragraphs there was a ONE LINE teeny blub at the bottom stating that the antarctic ice field (the big field, not the little one that's been slightly receding, was growing). Indeed at the time the antarctic ice shield was the greatest in size in recorded history.

Two polls. One shrinking (though regained), One massively expanding.

North "Shrinking": 27 paragraphs, all of course being "evidence of global warming"

South Massively expanding: one mention at the end.

That story is the tip of the iceburg, excuse the pun.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

It's traditional to provide a link to the article you're referencing. Is this the Globe article you're talking about: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/arct…

Oh wait – this is the article from a couple of weeks ago in which it's revealed that the "expanding" Antarctic ice is actually deteriorating rapidly:

"Experts around the world believed the ice was recovering because satellite images showed it expanding. But David Barber says the thick, multiyear frozen sheets crucial to the northern ecosystem have been replaced by thin “rotten” ice which can't support the weight of the bears."

"“As I watched, over the course of five minutes, the entire multiyear ice floe broke up into pieces,” Dr. Barber said. “This floe was 10 miles across. Something that's twice the size of Winnipeg, it just broke up right in front of our eyes.”"

huh.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

Oh yes I'm well aware of the claim that the ice is "rotten".

David Barber says its so. And on David Barber's say so it was reported round the word, rushed off to every news room.

A new phenomenah, suddenly dreamed up to explain away the regaining of ice. I would link to a myriad of authorities that show how laughable the notion of 'rotten ice' is (and some really funny parodies as well), but sadly I fully confident you would never believe it.

David Barber,

is telling you what you (and the media) want to hear.

And so David Barber has now become the definitive authority on the issue.

I suspect this bizarre new, heretofore unstudied untested hypothesis will now, without study or testing, be declared…

settled.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

"And so David Barber has now become the definitive authority on the issue."

Nobody has claimed that he's the definitive authority on the issue. But as a scientist, he has something that you lack: credibility.

And you do realize that he actually went there and assessed the state of the ice, right? So you're claiming he's making it up, lying to the world about something easily verifiable?

That's the downside of talking to a conspiracy theorist, like an evolution denier or global warming denier – all they need to do is dream up some explanation for what they want to believe, and no theory is too crazy.
jaker

Are ther really bears here?
Jan

Comparing satellite images of the ice to the physical examiination of the ice, is not an 'untested hypothesis'. Just out of curiosity – do you believe in evolution?

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

Funny how many other peer reviewed studies in major journals, that I read on the net, that range in casting doubts on AGW to actually completely contradicting the evidence,

that never see the light of day. The previously unknown Barber? His voice is instantly heard 'round the world.

As for some badly needed context: Anthony Watt's does the digging that the press absolutely refuses to do, by checking with every major institute that tracks artic ice,

and guess what? Nothing about this "rotten ice":

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/14/a-look-at-s…

http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Nobody is taking you and your climate denier lies seriously, Biff.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

Check out the Washington Post story today, showing support plummeting.

It'll keep going down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…

It is over.

http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Big deal, you rubes always claim you're winning.

wilson

We won.
73% of Canadians got their Christmas wish yesterday,
no binding agreement.

What surprised me most was that reality set in at the 11th hour,
and countries went home agreeing to set their own targets,
so much common sense……amazing.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Nobody takes you and your lies seriously either.
jarrid

I think Biff's right Robert, it's all over. The Socialists foiled yet again.

I know it won't stop your ilk from keeping on trying.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

And the third stooge reports for duty.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

How is that coalition thingy working out?
DPT

call me fourth A**hole, how many does it take for you to see your outnumbered
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Yes, we're so outnumbered that all the comments from the gasbags have negative ratings. I guess I'm not the only one tired of rightwing ranting taking over the Macleans forum.
Orson Bean

Yes, after all, positive rankings by your post are proof positive of God's Approval. And if you have a net negative symbol by your post, God Hates You — it is objective, reliable evidence that your post is incorrect and you are wicked and contemptible.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Your new religion won't allow it. Does AGW believers a celebrate Christmas?

Is Al Gore a prophet and Phil Jones his apostle?

Jan

You do realize , that even Prentice believes (or says he does) in AGW?

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

I allow freedom of religion. I also look at the action vs the 'talk' of politicians.

Liberals believe in National Daycare too. (Did you see any action?)

The Canadian position is to match the US regulations to avoid trade sanctions. An even playing field has been a principle for the CPC and it makes sense to require everyone to play by the same rules.
Do you think American will play fair or use their advantages in securing a better deal for their coal industry?

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

No is denying a climate exist. We are denying you can control the climate.

We are denying what you call AGW has been proven outside the Cabal of 30-60 people. Some with financial interests. Broken peer review, suppression of dissenting opinion at the UN.
Best of luck with your consensus AGWism in 2010. The authorities have begun the investigations and organizations are being sued for illegally refusing Freedom of Information requests.

Wascally Wabbit

Don't give biff chance to emitt any more of that hot air…
He's still looking for the edge of the earth – and wondering what the universe's second 6,000 years will bring….

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Another person calling for censorship, discrediting dissent, are you a graduate of Phil Jones school of communication?

Dot

No, he's in Quality Control.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

lol, Why are some people always calling for censorship, are we running out of space on the internet to store dissenting opinion posts?

Dot

biff has his own blog. lots of storage space there. Here it's equivalent to running nails on a chalkboard. Different if the blog topic was pertaining to 95% of his comments.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

The P.W. Post is to give us bloggers an opportunity to engage in thoughtful discourse with family and friends who share our admiration and respect for the wonderful work done by Jim Prentice?

Let's agree to disagree.
Dot

Up to pw. He HAS to read them, I presume.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

We bloggers may be visiting PW because the debate on Libblogs of Pencil vs Bullet Holes (Istock Photo) may not be very compelling.
Expect a CBC Panel to discuss.
Andre

Seems to me like you bloggers can be either famous or infamous or else you'd be normal and who the hell would want to read that.

Shame though being infamous means high-jacking the livelyhood of real writers.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Andre,

Any clue why some people get so angry over a letter from the PM about his objectives to protect our industry at COP15?

It looks like Canada did not cave in to pressure from a number of countries to adopt a unilateral position ahead of the US.

Some of the oppposition parties suggest it makes sense to regulate our industries ahead of the US administration and hope we don't hurt our competitiveness with our largest trading partner.

Do you agree with the opposition parties?
Andre

We've come to the weird situation where some people argue without proof that there's a financial risk to the actions no one knows whether they are to be implemented to correct something not everyone is sure is happening.

If developing green sustainable energy had the only benefit of reversing global warming then I would understand the aversion to them but they also reduce our dependence on oil which is a finite natural source. You can see how that could get a special interest group nervous.

Whether it happens now or in a dozen of years, the industry Harper protected in COP15 is going to die because it is unsustainable. The US is already moving towards sustainable energy like cellulosic ethanol. To remain competitive we would have to invest and promote those industry but by giving all of our support to the oil industry we have a short term gain at the expense of never getting sustainable energy off the ground. Then we'd have to buy it from the US.

That is our made in Canada plan you defend; depend on the US to wipe our chin.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Andre,

I don't accept the Gore-Suzuki end of the world fairytales.

Made in Canada solutions or bargaining from a position of strength? The US and China require our resources and will not divest themselves of our resources because the UN Cabal, Gore-Suzuki may have investments in New alternative energy products and a Carbon Exchange Market.

What are the benefits to the environment if Ogranized crime steals $ 5-7 Billion in the European Carbon Exchange?

Continental Approach-Americans must deliver a Plan instead of talking.

We want our trading partners to actually implement a real plan passed in Congress and the Senate. Have you seen the Healthcare debate and now the Final (revised, revised, revised plan?)

Did you miss the news that Germany decided to exempt their auto industry?
"Germany has also been the single most recalcitrant country in the EU when it comes to liberalizing Europe's energy market—a crucial step in lowering energy prices and increasing the efficiency of the continent's energy market."http://www.spinwatch.org/-news-by-category-mainmenu-9/159-eu-politics/4776-europes-worst-double-talkers

Our position of strength is requiring our trading partners to deliver concrete plans and make an even playing field for competition.

I don't think the US or China who account for over 42% and climbing of the AGW (Co2 Theory) are going to flip a switch and unplug their use of the cheaper fossil fuel including Coal for Solar, Wind, Tidal in the next few years.

Have you seen the US or China cancel the construction of their Electricity coal burning plants ?
Andre

U-N-S-U-S-T-A-I-N-A-B-L-E

I'm not talking about killing the industry off, I'm talking about letting it die. It can definately take care of itself.

It's funny you'd mention coal. In a carbon market it would be the first to go and our production rate ranks 14th worldwide with 1.1% production share. If we'd lose our coal export we'd lose 5 billion or our GDP, or 0.003% or our 1.5 trillion$ economy. How does that fit in your conspiracy theories?
Orson Bean

I'd also point out that the "sustainability" of ethanol is highly questionable. It really depends on your definition of sustainable, and what the definition takes into account and doesn't take into account. Displacement of farmland previously devoted to food production and driving up the price of corn as a result of government subsidization of the industry are just a couple of the effects that need to be taken into account.

It reminds me of some of the critical studies that have come out about the whole 100-mile-diet/eat local movement, and how that has been very much oversold as a panacea to various environmental concerns relating to food production and consumption. Everything in life has a price, and it depresses me how so many "solutions" to environmental problems are not subjected to proper scrutiny, debate and criticism.
Orson Bean

Sorry, I overlooked that A mentioned cellulosic ethanol specifically, which has the potential to displace far less food production than pure corn or sugar cane-based ethanol. As I understand it, cellulosic is in its comparative infancy, and the industry which currently exists in the US would not be possible without signficant govt subsidies.
Andre

The biggest problem right now for cellulosic ethanol is scale. Until companies start to mass produce the enzyme it will be more expensive to produce than sugar ethanol. Naturally, investors will invest in the product with higher returns.

Quebec actually allowed only one sugar ethanol plant to be built before banning sugar ethanol plants. They'll only allow cellulosic ethanol plants to be built from now on. That's the kind of initiative I'd like to see from our governments.

Iogen and Lignol are two Canadian companies with cellulosic ethanol patents. They're just waiting for the market to warm up to them.
http://intensedebate.com/people/craigola craigola

Amen to that.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

Why are some people always calling for censorship

Because we're sick and tired of you gasbags polluting the last good forum on the internet with your kooky konspiracy theories, lies and character assassinations. There are already thousands of forums where you can fart until your heart is content and nobody will notice the additional stink.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Did you work in China or some Eastern Block country?

Best of luck with your censorship requests in Canada. Thankfully your party won't be governing.
YSP

I'd like to know where asserting our own views becomes "censoring" those who have opposing views. It's a democracy here; we have a right to openly believe the governing party are idiots.

I have done propaganda for the Communist Party of China, by the way. Department of Preservation of Physical Culture or some such.
Orson Bean

Robert McClelland, you are the very model of tolerance, civility and open-mindedness.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

So this Barber guy takes a single short arctic boat ride and says he saw: "rotten ice": round the world reporting. Singular anecdotal case: science.

Arctic crab fishermen, reporting ice accelerating faster than they've seen in 30 years such that they are unable to fish: Multiple source anecdotal evidenc – bad. And oh, not parroted around the world. In fact, not a peep from the "balance media".

http://aprn.org/2009/01/13/sea-ice-in-the-bering-…

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Biff,

The affliction of AGW is real. This new religion is almost cultish in nature. A lot of deprogramming of our youth will be needed and the investigations into the alleged illegal actions have begun.

kcm

Spoken like the democrat you no doubt purport to be.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Where is all the anger coming from? It is almost Christmas!

kcm

Think about what you are assuming over a nonvisual non audial means of comunication…i'm not angry…just dispirted that your solution would advocate deprogramming and investigation of acts you deem illegal.
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

kcm,

Some of us care about REAL solutions and we don't trust ANY politicians with a blank cheque to fix the climate with a Global Tax on Co2.

Rex Murphy video
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/03/you-wouldnt…

Hacked emails or whistleblower investigated by Scotland Yard
http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story…

Copenhagen climate summit: Carbon trading fraudsters in Europe pocket €5bn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-clima…

http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room…
kcm

Well i'm not shocked. Scientists are hman too. It neve was a good idea to put them up on such a pedastal. That said i'll follow how the investigations of the emails go. I certainly wont judge them on the word of obsessive amateurs like Biff. For every story out there about CC fraudsters there's one about vested interests who don't wont action taken on CC. As for Rex, on this subject at least, he's lost is objectivity…otherwise i like him.
Personally i'm sure something is happenng…even in my northern community magpies for instance are now a comman sight – no one can recall seeing them in past decades. There are similar anecdotal stories from further north. Northeners are largely convinced that something odd is going on…of course this is not necessarily evidence of man made CC

Andre

You've said it; anecdotal. No self-respecting journalist is going to report fisherman stories, even less so as evidence of a AGW conspiracy, not even if these stories came from the Dalai Lama.

Looks like more Rex Murphy for you.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

It seems your response typified everything that's wrong with AGW.

The Report heard round the world, was not based on on any scientific study, but a single anecdotal account of what one man saw on a small boat trip.

The crab fishermen, also anecdotal. But in large numbers but in a far more compelling context: they couldn't earn their living. Why would they make up Ice blocking their routes?

Of course the more compelling is never heard from (except in a local report where fishing is the areas livihood),

whereas the pro AGW agenda report is vaunted to the top and spread 'round the world by media desperate to spread the word:

that word: don't trust the sources telling you the arctic ice is recovered.

Those sources were fine when they were telling the AGW crowd what they wanted to hear.

This is but a microcosm of the political/"scientific"/media complex driving this bunk theory.

kcm

I live in the Canadian north…there are anecdotal accounts from Inuit of poor and late forming ice conditions and stories of insects that they have no word for in their language appearing in the north. Those stories not strike your fancy Biff?

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

What is your point?

The alarmists hid the decline and have ignored datasets to boost their theory.

[youtube eScDfYzMEEw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw youtube]
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

The media cherry picks, the anecdotes.

As seen in the emails, the AGW establishment cherry picks the articles that are published.

As apparently seen with the Russian stations (hold onto your hats for more btw, so says a little birdie) they're cherry picking the temp stations, leaving out the cooling indicators

An entire paradigms are being cherry picked, so those who study earth temp from any other angle, such as the Sun (that massive firey ball of flames which gives heat to the entire solar system) is shunned. Those guy's BTW saw this cold spell coming, and are concerned about another Maundar Minimum.

Funny though, if you've been getting your news from the MSM your likely completely baffled by everything I've referred to. See point one above.

Jan

Just curious Biff, do you support Harper's Arctic policy – the one that is founded on the principle that the ice is melting?

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

The Cobenhagen agreement has been renamed – it's the Invironmental Seinfeld Agreement – all about nothing
wilson

With all the investigations going on now, Canada can avoid the cost, and can review the results of investigations in Parliamentary Committee before 1 dime is given to the World Bank.
A Cons majority in the Senate will help too.
I don't see any $100 B fund actually becoming a reality.
Do the beggar nations really want international boots on their soil checking things out? Looking into their books?
Never.
Curt

I agree with you Maureen.

jarrid

Ditto.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

Funny…whenever your avatar pops up the first thing that pops into my head is "Cuckoo! Cuckoo!"

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Did you have evidence the wealth transfer agreement at COP15 is about the environment? Can you provide the new environmental regulation or conservation in the document, thanks.

Richard when you right click and google it may not bring up the correct links I paraphrased.
http://seekerblog.com/archives/category/science-p…
Richard you may not like the fact the science is not settled and we want the data, models reviewed by a third party outside the rigged peer review control group.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

Whatever Looney Tunes. There's literally no point in arguing with your kind. No matter the overwhelming tidal wave of data proving otherwise, you'll cling to some bit of arcana to "prove" your point.

Your kind are about as relevant as 9/11 Truthers or Obama Birthers….that is, not relevant at all. Just a noisy distraction.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Interesting point. Throw personal Insults, suggest Science is a "consensus" activity and and finish off with another personal insult.

Release the data, models. (Transparency) to several groups outside the Cabal to verfiy the IPCC claims. Anything short of that proves AGW theory is a not about the science.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

See, you keep talking but all I hear is the sound that Charlie Brown's teacher makes.

*a noisy distraction*
http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

They play Charlie Brown in Narnia?

Sara

I'm just wondering which one of you guys is going to start offering the guys who work in Fort Mac a job other than Tim Hortons? Harper did a great job protecting jobs! Thats what matters! Which one of you are willing to give up your jobs – or to cut back your hours to accomidate one of those guys? I bet none! Your too busy taking the financial benefits from Alberta and Saskatchewan. And if you think that I am from Sask or AB, I'm originally from the Beaches Toronto… but couldnt afford to live on the crap wages there.

http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

Sara,

Well said. Born in T.O. Live in Oakville. The retiring Mayor of Toronto, Ontario, Quebec politicians who decided to score cheap shots on our dime and raise the unity card -Old Liberal strategy of bashing the West was deplorable.

The opposition showed a lack of class when China rebuked our PM and they failed to defend our interests.
Jan

Our fate remains in the hands of the U.S. Congress, so I think celebrating job preservation by Steve, may be premature.

Steve

I'm embarrassed to be a Canadian and that is the first time in 60 years I've said that

mike

i'm embarrased you're Canadian, too, buddy.

Arturolexo

Sara, if you make lousy money, it is up to you to move forward and find ways to make better money. The government has never been a stepladder to better wages. It's up to you.

Sara

I don't make lousy Money Arturolexo. Thanks to Oil. I moved from Toronto to Sask almost 6 years ago. And to Oil, I am grateful for the life it affords me. To be also treated as an equal at the job, and to be paid the same as any guy.
I work hard, and I pay taxes. And I'll fight tooth and nail to keep my job – as it seems people in Ont, and Quebec need the tax money I and my fellow workers give up to you all.

Andre

If you support green energy then you could move back to Ontario and work on the farms. There's no chance of them running out of crops.

You have to admit the donuts are better here.

SaraGr

There are a lot of pros to coming back to Ontario… like family. And ya… the donuts are better…
But I dont think I could afford a home there… my current mortgage is only $430/month. I'd have to live at Jane/Finch bach pad to get that. :p

YSP

You must have bought your house some time ago. A mortgage on a tiny dump in the hood goes for $430 a WEEK in SK these days.

Donald M.

One must hope that Well's "Thank God for Prentice" is meant to be taken as pure irony.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TwoYen TwoYen

Read the tags, man.

Barb

The government is claiming to be "working closely" with the US government, but is this actually the case? It seems extremely unlikely that Canada would have ANY influence on the decisions being made in Washington. Not that the Prentice's bungled photo op with Steven Chu necessarily means anything, but if they had actually been working together on the file at all, one might suspect that US officials wouldn't mind them having their picture taken together.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

Three Cheers to Mr. Wells for tolerating these partisan shenanigans (and my multiple comments) on what started out to be a fairly benign post.

Merry x mas to all, including to my left leaning friends!