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Categories: Capital Read, Inkless Wells

Ah yes, the "root causes" crowd again

by Paul Wells on Monday, December 28, 2009 12:28am - 117 Comments

“The events of September 11, 2001, taught us that weak states, like Afghanistan, can pose as great a danger to our national interests as strong states. Poverty does not make poor people into terrorists and murderers. Yet poverty, weak institutions, and corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and drug cartels within their borders.”

— The National Security Strategy of the United States of America, Sept. 17, 2002

Which just might help explain why, when a rich Nigerian banker’s son who could buy his suits on Jermyn Street and his mp3 player from Apple needed to buy some stuff to set an airliner on fire, he had to go to Yemen.

More by Paul Wells

http://intensedebate.com/people/WernerPatels WernerPatels

I never bought the "poverty" argument. That's a lefty's stupid non-argument while his/her heart bleeds for criminals and terrorists.

Those who commit such acts are deranged and dangerous and need to be dealt with accordingly.
http://intensedebate.com/people/colbycosh colbycosh

The chemicals could have been obtained anywhere (they won't turn out to have originated in Yemen, but most likely in Germany or China). The question isn't why a rich, well-educated kid needed al-Qaeda to get bomb materials, but why al-Qaeda appears to need rich, well-educated kids to detonate them.

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"need rich, well-educated kids to detonate them"

What is it with education and kids that makes them want to blow things up? I believe the terrorists groups in Germany and Italy during the 1970s were also educated kids.

My grandfather use to rail against educated kids and communism – he talked often of how only a university education could make you believe in something so colossally stupid as socialism – and I think his belief applies to terrorism as well.

YSP

Rich educated kids are pretty good at messing capitalism up, for that matter. Only rich educated idiots who never had to work hard to achieve anything could have dreamed up the $#!+ that led to mortgage fiasco.

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

Agreed. Reading Too Big To Fail at the moment, I am about 150 pages into book, and the main message so far is that no one really understood what they were doing/buying/selling. Billions of $$$ are sloshing around and no one really knew what was going on. Unbelievable.
Andre

Not agreed. The bank management classes comes from all walks of life, except rich educated kids, and they were allowed to mess capitalism up because the government regulating class was taking a nap, because they are definitely not rich educated kids.

You're going to have to find yourself another scapegoat.

http://intensedebate.com/people/VinceClortho VinceClortho

Patty Hearst, A large number of the Weathermen. Also an upper middle class movement.

Heck even the american revolution was an upper middle class revolt.

But I dont think they need upper middle class kids to make their plans work, they just attrac them. As a counterpoint, the guy on trial for Mumbai was from dirt poor backward rural Pakistan. Watching the documentary in it. one of the hostages said the guy didnt know how to turn on the tap in the bathroom…….thats the other aspect of the jihadi's, ignorant, uneducated people. What is common in both cases is that both ascribe to the cocomanie theory they are victims and that their actions leading to their deaths and the deaths of other human beings is somehow redemptive and beneficial.

Brainwashable people exist at all levels and in all occupations.

http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

Yes, that is the question. There doesn't seem to be many poor uneducated people doing these things.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

The question isn't why a rich, well-educated kid needed al-Qaeda to get bomb materials, but why al-Qaeda appears to need rich, well-educated kids to detonate them.

Because nobody gives a shit about the backlash against poor, uneducated kids.
http://intensedebate.com/people/robert_mccl6309 Robert McClelland

The question isn't why a rich, well-educated kid needed al-Qaeda to get bomb materials, but why al-Qaeda appears to need rich, well-educated kids to detonate them.

Because nobody cares about the backlash against poor, uneducated kids.

jay

So they blend in with the rest of the rich, well-educated kids who fly internationally?
Jesse

We all know what the common demoninator and root cause of modern terrorism is.

Yet I will not say it so long as we lack free speech in this country and the human rights tribunals still exist.

It will be up to the likes of Mark Steyn to point out the obvious until then.

Blues Clair

Al Gore?

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

More likely Obama. He's from Kenya, y'know.

http://intensedebate.com/people/craigola craigola

Mark Steyn defeated the human rights tribunals, Jesse, remember? I hope your mommy is keeping your testicles somewhere safe for you until she decides you're big boy enough to use them.

Jesse

Steyn had the backing of high priced lawyers and the tribunals made a tactical retreat.

Average citizens continue to be scrutinized for statements deemed "offensive". Until they are abolished and the primacy of free speech re-established in this country we won't be having an open debate about the root causes of terrorism, the need for profiling, and the need for a change in policy away from this ridiculous points based system when it comes to immigration and visas.

Mike T.

Steyn had the backing of high priced lawyers and the tribunals made a tactical retreat.

***

Horsefeathers. The complainants had a weak (although not frivolous) case.

Anon

"We all know what the common demoninator (sic) and root cause of modern terrorism is. "

Yes. Homosexuality, feminism, liberalism, multi-culturalism and…*cue ominous music* lattes.

Shame on the Maclean's mediocrities for making this all about people trying to figure this out, as opposed to the criminals carrying out these acts.
http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

"monism" and "simplism"

jarrid

If you boil it down that's where it comes from, but there are other factors that enter into the equation, I won't deny.

There is a myopia, particularly among secular materialistic westerners, of the grasp that twisted religion can have on people. It is a potent force than can be tapped for evil ends.

http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

There is a myopia, particularly among secular materialistic westerners, of the grasp it can have on people. It is a potent force than can be tapped for evil ends.

Rob H

I'll say it. Muslims.

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

There will always be radical ideologies,

and those who do their bidding.

And there will always be socialists/leftists who deny, belittle, justify radical ideologies, since the only fathomable struggle in their world is the class struggle.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Geiseric Geiseric

Almost a decade and terrorism still causes potentially decent columnists to hide their straw men in phoney quotation marks.

I wonder what the "root cause" of that is.
Paul Wells

Ah. There we go. Even brave anonymous blog commenters dare not name Islam — for it is Islam! Islam I say! Islam!!!! Iiiiiiislaaaaaaam!!!!!! — as the “common denominator” of international terrorism. For that is what it is. Islam. The common denominator. Of terrorism. Except when it’s Tamil terrorism. Or Tim McVeigh’s peculiar brand of Christianity. But yeah, these days international terrorists are generally Muslims who talk a lot about Islam while doing terroristic things.

[Stands, waiting for HRC lightning bolt to strike]

Hello? Hellooooo?

Okay. While we’re waiting for me to be hauled off to some Trudeaupian dungeon, I suppose I’ll have to write some more on this subject. Which I will later today. In the meantime, could somebody fetch me a mop so I can clean up the puddle of ice-cold pee Jesse has left on the floor?

http://bigcitylib.blogspot.com bigcitylib

I've got Jennifer Lynch on speed-dial. You're done, boyo.
MJ Patchouli

Make him clean up his own pee; otherwise how will he ever learn?
mungman

Considering where the explosives were hidden I posit that the root cause could be small penis.

Ok, that was not helpful, I think the Islam thing may be closer to the truth and the other examples are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Greg

If you read the guy's story, it seems like teenage rebellion is the root cause.
Jesse

What! What!

Who said anything about that particular religion ?

I never mentioned it, that's for sure.

Why on earth is it the first thing that jumped to everyone's mind when I made no mention of it ??

Shame on all of you for a lack of tolerance!

http://intensedebate.com/people/craigola craigola

Very clever, Jesse. NOW will you please clean up your pee?

Jesse

No, No, NO

seriously!

The thing I was getting at was that the common denominator in all these cases is a lack of exposure and respect for Tibetan Buddhism.

(I didn't want to mention it because religion is a touchy subject and evangelizing is probably considered hateful and offensive these days by the HRC – watch out door to door types!)

I'm honestly quite puzzled and baffled that the first thing that came to everyone's mind is this Islam bussiness.

Is it really that strongly associated with terrorism that people jump to these crazy connections ?

I repeat, shame on all of you for a lack of tolerance, your words do betray your trueselves!

http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

McVeigh, happened to be Christian. A lot of history's monsters have been Christian. It's debateable, to say the least, that he murdered in the name of Christianity.

That others have committed autrocities at varios points in history (who were not radical Muslims) doesn't negate the fact that radical Islam is the predominant force (indeed, in terms of numbers, a near exclusive force) for terrorism in the world today.

As for the "these days" reference, that connotes this is just some passing fancy, like an evil hoola hoop craze. Except it is not. It is part of a worldwide ideology that started from the madrassas in Saudi Arabia in the 70's to the word of radical imams worldwide today, preaching the coming of the caliphate and the violent means to bring that about – and all of the barbarity that comes with it.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

As for the mocking of concern for the HRC, many here are correct to point out their selective politically correct enforcement of 'rights'.

But of far more concern to writers, artists etc, is the Muslim community itself. Self censureship has become the norm, in everything from the latest movie (which refrained from showing mosques getting blown up), to the Yale banning of the depiction of Mohammad in a book about Mohammad, to late night comedians refusals to tell jokes about Muslims.

The violent rage that followed the Muslim cartoons, and the compliance it created among the dhimmis is likely what keeps folks like Mr. Wells' comments, safely buried deep in a relatively obscure comment thread.
jarrid

Bringing up the name of Tim McVeigh or Tamil terrorism is just plain weird here. What does that have to do with the Nigerian radical Muslim that tried to blow up the airliner in Detroit a couple of days ago?

Or were you reading some book over the holidays linking the 9/11 attacks to the Tamil and Christian extremists Mr. Wells?

Logician

Pay attention, Jarrid The topic is what candidates there could be for "the root causes of terrorism". (My candidate is "monism and simplism".) You must have this confused with some other thread.

http://intensedebate.com/people/colbycosh colbycosh

Not to go all Gore Vidal here, but Timothy McVeigh was approximately 2% more Christian than I am. He hung around with some Christian militia groups (I guess it's not like you have a wide smorgasbord of options if you want to blow yourself up some gubmint) but he was a self-described agnostic.

Wascally Wabbit

Heavens – and what about the good old standby – reaction to American Imperialism…heck – even American intellectual publishers are wondering… http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/509506/are_u…

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Heck, why stop with terrorism? Think of all the people out there who fervently believe that Americans (and/or American Imperialism) are in fact the Root Cause of most of the world's ills. "Monism and simplism", as Doug Rogers might say.

JimD

If anyone questions that the root causes of terrorism against the West are anything but Western (American) hegemony of practically everything for the past 100 years, you might want to see about getting on with the CFR. I don't know why any educated person could think we could bomb/sanction/occupy/overthrow with impunity.

Doobsey

The root cause of terrorism of any kind is a bunch of like minded fanatics who think their way is the only way. Period.
Until society as a whole recognizes that human nature is the cause of terrorism or crime in general it will never go away or be dealt with appropriately. Some humans are just bad, some humans are just dumb, some humans are just good people, some humans are just brilliant. That will absolutely never change.

Anon

Mohammed Atta also came from a well to do background. And of course, Usam Bin Laden, comes from one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia.

Wascally Wabbit

Last time I looked – has family name wasn't Abdul Aziz – which is the Family name of the House of Saud – and – when I was last there – there were approx. 5,000 princes of the family Abdul Aziz – presumably all getting a percentage of the spoils…so being from "one of the wealthiest families" in Saudi Arabia is a relative term…by our standards..he could have been living in relative poverty!

Anon

The Bin Laden family operates the Saudi Binladin Group construction empire (see http://www.sbgpbad.ae/). The founder, Mohammed Bin Laden, is the father of Usama Bin Laden.

Wascally Wabbit

Back to the Imperialism theory…seems the US is rethinking its strategy in Latin America – the Monroe Doctrine – maybe realizing that it cannot impose its mores on everyone…
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/adios-monroe-doc…

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"For the first time in centuries, the United States doesn’t seem to care much what happens in Latin America."

Obama admin tried hard to re-install Zelaya but Hondurans, to their great credit, ignored the State Dept and continued on their path to becoming a normal democracy. Obama supported the dictator wannabe and Hondurans told him, and Zelaya, to get stuffed. I think Honduras ignoring US is one of the top stories of the year.

The tnr article is just spin to mask the fecklessness of Obama.

jarrid

If one has to put it succinctly, the main denominator of islamic terrorism these days is certainly not poverty. It is a particular interpretation of Islam, a radicalization of it if you will, which repudiates modernity and the west. One of its main proponents was Sayyid Qutb who wrote "Milestones", his most well-known work. He was executed in 1966 by the Nasser government in Egypt. He was part of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.

This is the movement that has inspired and continues to inspire Al Qaeda. That is the main "cause" of the current terrorism we are seeing. I thought this wasn't particularly controversial. Look no further than this Mr Wells.

Rob H

It is not a particular interpretation of Islam, it is the literal interpretation of the Quran and Hadiths. The "moderate" Muslims are pretending not to notice what their religion says, plainly and without any misinterpretation. What Al Qaeda and Saudi versions of Islam follow is what the Quran and Hadiths actually say, and what Mohammed himself actually did.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SirJohn_Eh SirJohn_Eh

Well if true – that sucks. (too late for understatements of the decade list?)

http://intensedebate.com/people/DallanInvictus Dallan Invictus

No doubt I'll be accused of grasping at straws while Colby and Paul smugly point and laugh, but the "root causes" argument was never about individuals to this leftist, it was about groups. The fact that a rich Nigerian banker's son or the black sheep of Saudi peri-royals could turn to terrorism is effectively irrelevant (would you argue that Georgian Britain or ancien regime France weren't oppressive just because there were rich Europeans that took the side of the revolutionaries?), because it's not them as individuals you should look at, it's the people they have been convinced are their tribemates and fellow-travellers that they should stand up for, and the people doing the convincing, and the reasons all three of these groups cite.

Kaplan

Why should you care if Wells points and laughs? What, is he some sort of political oracle or something? Come on. He's now actively engaging the loons on the HRC debate. With the growth, I think, of snarky little 'Heh. Indeed' dimestore blogging commentary these days, Wells is turning into the Kate McMillan of Maclean's. Maybe it's directly related to the commentators he's been attracting over the past number of months. And that could be a good thing for many of his readers here, but he's usually been so much better than that. You write to the audience you want, and not only to the audience you have, and all that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

That's kind of beautiful, whatever it means. Meanwhile, Dallan, all I'll accuse you of is managing to misread my post so badly you think Colby and I agree.

http://intensedebate.com/people/colbycosh colbycosh

[I'm pretty sure he is pointing and laughing though.]

Anon

3 million bucks a year in public funding so you, Wells, Coyne and Stain can have playdates.

http://intensedebate.com/people/DallanInvictus Dallan Invictus

You're right, the gain on my sarcasm detector was set far too low for reading you. I blame my RSS reader for not tipping me off right away.

Roger

Blogging conservatives love Iranian protesters right now. If the Iranians become free Muslims, then the conservatives will start hating these same Moose-limbs.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Ah … the only good one is a dead one …

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/wh…

and the years of British and French colonial tender mercies don't matter much either.
http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

As for blaming "the west", some here ought to spend a bit of time examining who the targets of radical Islam.

It's principally those who live in developing countries – in particular other Muslims. Yes the west gets some of the attacks, but the living hell created for those millions of poor souls (the women guilty of "dishonouring" their families, men who choose not worship Allah in the correct manner or, god help them, decide to not be Muslim) – the daily autrocities of one Muslim against another are difficult for the average westerner to fathom.

Ironic that the sheer unimaginable brutality makes it all the easier for an ideologically blind anti capitalist, anti western partisan to brush aside in declaring its "all about us".

"Us", not being themselves of course, but their western ideological enemies.
http://intensedebate.com/people/bazoo bazoo

http://www.signandsight.com/features/493.html
01/12/2005
The radical loser
"Hans Magnus Enzensberger looks at the kind of ideological trigger required to ignite the radical loser – whether amok killer, murderer or terrorist – and make him explode"
http://intensedebate.com/people/bazoo bazoo

Teaser: "Neither poverty nor the experience of political repression alone seem to provide a satisfactory explanation for why young people actively seek out death in a grand bloody finale and aim to take as many people with them as possible. Is there a phenotype that displays the same characteristics down the ages and across all classes and cultures?"
H. M. E., "The radical loser"
http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Terrorism is about hate, power, money and easily manipulated minds and has nothing to do with money. Hitler, Mafia, motor cycle gangs, street gangs are all forms of terrorism and it's all about easy money, control, power, hatred and people who need to belong – money, education or not.
Adamvs

These groups and their members all have a sense of self-righteousness and entitlement. They often find their members in the children of elites- children who resent that not everyone can be president, or find the job that they so richly deserve(in their own opinion). This resentment is not productive- and it can be found on the radical right of the Muslim brotherhood, or the US militia groups that share the views of Timothy McVeigh. In each case, corrupt, decadent 'others' are responsible for their own sense of inadequacy. In an attenuated form it expresses itself in demonising Barack Obama, Stephen Harper, 'that jack ass with the pinko/fascist/lefty/chauvinist blog' and everyone who is to blame for every injury real or imagined- everyone but oneself, and a few like-minded buddies.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Drones over London ? Again ?

je suis un stylo

No no, you got it wrong:

Troops. In our streets. With Guns.

Anon Liberal

It seems to me that what is destabilizing is the combination of fundamentalist beliefs with modernism (modern education, globalized capitalism, mass democracy, technology, changing gender roles, etc.). When modernism crashes into traditional societies and belief systems there is bound to be a defensive counter-reaction. Fundamentalist, Wahabi-style Islam may be the particular ideology de jour, but we have seen similar dynamics at play over the past century or so with various forms of ethnic nationalism and with political ideologies (fascism, communism). Modernity seems to challenge and destabilize belief systems, it leaves people feeling adrift, detached from the beliefs and values that used to give their lives meaning (or at least the idealized lives of their ancestors). It seems to me that the appeal of fundamentalist ideologies is that they seem an alternative to the kind of shallow, consumerist society most of us live in today. A society that many of us seems to be dissatisfied with given the levels of addiction and escapism out there.

People can blame Islam if they like but I suspect if it wasn't Islam it would be some of other kind of totalizing belief system. There will always be people looking to tear down the current political/economic power structure and replace it with something new (although this can be disguised as trying to return to something older and truer).
http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

People need to use McVeigh because they can't think of another terrorist "Christian" in our lifetimes. They need one to make their argument that it has nothing to do with Islam. Then they can say, that for every one of those 50 Islamic terrorist attacks, there are 50 Christian ones, McVeigh and the other 49 that I can't think of right now.
http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

I don't think one can say Islam in and of itself is the cause of terrorism.

But one thing's for sure, those people who jump on their favourite hobby horse, shut off their brains, and proclaim that poverty is the cause of all evil, those people are out of their tree.

We may not understand the roots of terrorism, but we can certainly rule out poverty as having any influence whatsoever, it's blindingly obvious.