The Short Parliament

by Andrew Coyne on Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:39am - 341 Comments

As Canadian democracy spirals further down the drain:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper will prorogue Parliament Wednesday for a two-month break.

The House of Commons and the Senate will come back in March, after the Vancouver Olympics, for a Speech from the Throne and a budget. The move will have the effect of stalling all bills currently in Parliament, including crime bills that the government had said were being delayed by the opposition.

A post-Olympic return would also shut down government committees, which would stop MPs from pursuing the Afghan detainee controversy until Parliament returned.

Question: In what other democracy is it permissible for the government of the day to hide from the legislature for months at a time? To ignore explicit parliamentary votes demanding the production of documents? To stonewall independent inquiries? Perhaps the rules allow it elsewhere, but is it the practice? Does convention not still forbid it? Is it not viewed in other countries as dictatorial behaviour, and therefore, you know … not done?

So, rather than submit himself to the inquiries of elected parliamentarians, the King will dismiss Parliament, in the grand tradition of kings past. The question is: what will Parliament do now? If historical precedent is any guide, it should meet anyway. Let those MPs who wish to do the people’s business convene on the usual timetable, and let those with other loyalties disport themselves as they may.

If MPs are barred at the doors to Parliament — and wouldn’t that be an interesting scene — let them meet somewhere else. A tennis court would do nicely.

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  • Observant

    I suspect the upcoming March 2010 Budget will include the elimination of the $1.95(or whatever it is) subsidy per vote as a matter of belt tightening for politicians … and then the gored Opposition can vote no confidence and precipitate an election over that poison pill issue together with their caring for the Taliban over and above our soldiers.

    However, the fly in the ointment might be Duceppe's BQ, who really don't need the subsidy for their frugal provincial campaign … just go along with the next Budget and neuter the Libs and Dips who pose more of a threat to him in Quebec than do the Conservatives.

    If the gov't doesn't fall on the next Budget, then it's probable that Iggy will abdicate and leave Canada with the woman he loves … leaving the near-defunct Liberal party to the likes of JustinT … the choice of the college crowd.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

      "…their caring for the Taliban over and above our soldiers." You are turgid with BS. It is because we DO CARE about our soldiers and what they stand for that we an investigation into how they were ordered to turn over detainees knowing they'd be tortured. Wanting our professional, dedicated troops to be ordered to follow the Geneva conventions is NOT the same thing as supporting the Taliban and you know it. That little rhetorical trick is dead on arrival Observant.

  • Jaker

    Ireland's Dail take holiday''s all year round; Winter, Spring, Summer & Fall!

  • Gayle

    "In what other democracy is it permissible for the government of the day to hide from the legislature for months at a time?"

    Alberta, though calling it a democracy is probably stretching.

    • Blame Crash

      HA HA Gayle!
      You're so very clever.
      But tell us, did you perhaps slap down five bucks to buy a PC membership so as to vote for Fast Eddie?
      How is that not democracy? Or am I mistaking you for some one else?

      • Gayle

        I have never been a member of any political party, though the election of the PC leader in Alberta is the closest thing we have to actual democracy in this province.

        The Legislature sits for 6 weeks twice a year. Harper is only following in the footsteps of Ralph Klein. Does Rod Love work for the PMO now?

        • Blame Crash

          Can't stop the "cleverness" eh Gayle?
          Wasn't their a general election that voted in Eddie and his band of pinko PC's, or was that all a bad nightmare?
          Believe it or not Gayle, democracy doesn't "exist" or "not exist" depending on the result you want.
          Now, I'll try this again. Did you or did you not vote in the Alberta PC leadership race?

          • Gayle

            I will make this easier for you. Despite the fact it is irrelevant and none of your business anyway, the fact that I have never been a member of a political party means I never bought a membership to the PCs, which means I could not possibly have voted in the leadership race.

            Sorry for being too subtle on that point.

            As for the rest, I stand by my comment. I have no doubt there are people who understand what I mean, despite your willful ignorance on the subject.

            You take care now. I am heading to the mountains for NYE.

          • Blame Crash

            Now Gayle, you know as well as I do that “people” agreeing on something dosen’t make it true. That totally lacks in logic or common sense.

            As I said before, democracy doesn’t exist or not exist because the outcome isn’t what was wanted by the leftist crew. Is it any wonder why the leftist are rejected in Alberta! We’re just not that dense.

            “Willful Ignorance” indeed!

  • Blame Crash

    Good Grief! What a vapid display of self centered poutiness. You Toronto journalinista’s are all the same aren’t you!

    I sure hope you’re not going to go and have a fainting spell on us Coyne.! Actually I was just kidding. Please do! Don’t worry, I’ll catch your fall…THUD…. HA HA, just kidding again.

    Tell me something Coyne. Is their a difference between “shutting Parliament down” and “proroguing parliament”? Don’t bother answering that, I’ll do it myself. Parliament isn’t being shut down, and you know it. It says, right there, before your very own eyes. It says: “Parliament will be prorogued for a two month break”. Now tell me, how does “shutting down Parliament” and “democracy spiraling down the drain” in any way, shape or form, be considered to be on par to a “two month break”?

    The answer is YOU CAN’T. I hate to be the one who has to inform you that the spiraling sound you hear isn’t democracy going down the drain. It’s something else. I’ll let you try to figure that one out for yourself.

  • langmann

    The economy will likely benefit from Paliamentarians not being able to muck about with it for the next 2 months. Look on the bright side of that, Coyne.

  • Cecil Crasto

    It is absolutely outrageous that Stephen Harper abuses his power as Prime Minister! Time and time again he has shown himself to be an unscruplous, conniving, petty politician!

    But, he is a politician you may point out. Yet, what makes it so maddening is the fact that he started out wanting to reform the political process, that he elicited much hope in that regard in the hearts of people like myself, and finally that he is an evangelical Christian.

    Sadly, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Evangelical Christians should feel embarrased that one of their own professes Christ as Lord in church yet doesn't model his behaviour in the workplace. Sure, he is a staunch supporter of Israel and an opponent of gay marriage, but I hope, they will have the moral courage to condemn him when he is unethical and behaves inappropriately, just as they surely praise him when he is "moral" and shares their political and social views.

  • Colonel Angus

    Interesting how Conservative supporters are OK with the government simply deciding it doesn't want to come to work to do its elected job — so it won't, and justify such acts because the Liberal party committed the same errs previously. Didn't mommy ever tell these people two wrongs don't make a right?

    Partisan politics is ridiculous in any event. This simply verifies that fact.

  • Thruxomatic

    Oh, for crying out loud …

    Chretien's prorogues were done with a MAJORITY. Harper has a minority, and so must answer to that MAJORITY. That's the difference. Using prorogue to avoid answering to the parliamentary majority, especially when it means the possible defeat of your government or undermining an investigation into possible malfeasance by your government, is something Chretien never once touched. With a majority, he had the parliamentary will, he wasn't defying it. Get it?

    Yes, he prorogued for political reasons. No, his government's future didn't hang on any of those prorogues.

    As for this notion that once the CPC have a majority in the Senate all those senate reform bills will pass … boy, I can't believe they let you guys into politics when you have such a poor grasp of your own parliament and constitution. Lifetime senate terms are written directly into the constitutional documents, as is the GG's power to appoint them. You are not simply going to pass a bill and change that. We have an amending formula for the constitution and if you ignore that, every last one of those bills will die in the courts. When it happens, will you shift the blame to the "activist judges" from the "activist senators" or will you finally grow up and realize your own party leader has been playing you for fools, pinning the blame for his unconstitutional legislation's failure on the opposition parties?

  • prairieexile

    If you want to see what the real agenda of the current government is, go to this link, of the National Citizen's Coalition. This is their Agenda for Canada. You have to go further down the page and click on the agenda link as it is a pdf file. Our current King was president of this secretive right-wing group. The agenda has been updated, is amazingly full of inaccuracies and outright lies, and is not the Canada I want.

    https://nationalcitizens.ca/cgi-bin/oms.cgi?rm=sh…

  • Hardrations

    Let's face up to it. The P.M. is a pathetic figure, hungering for political power. Nothing to do with running the affairs of Canada. The old story of taking his bat and ball home because he's not winning.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/3491stargazer 3491stargazer

    I also wonder about our so-called "democracy", but more about the work ethic of our government. After an election in Great Britain, The House of Commons typically meets the NEXT DAY to begin the new session, not three or four months down the road. It is as if the Brits understand that they were elected to actually run the country, not sit down with their winning colleagues to figure out what they might be able to get away with and what they can conveniently shuffle into a corner until action is absollutely required.
    In the USA, the House and Senate both worked until close to Christmas Eve to try to pass legislation. And they don't take great long breaks from their jobs, either. Granted, many of their laws are so convoluted and subject to so much jerrymandering and lobbying that these things create massive bottlenecks, but they work through them, rather than proroguing the assemblies and waiting for the legislatures to expire.
    I was once a supporter of Harper, because I was tired of the Liberal system of rewarding only the jurisdictions who voted their way. But even that was better than a government that doesn't want to sit at all, and would rather make policy from the Tory backrooms and present them as decrees with no debate. Isn't this what the French revolted against in 1789?

  • Bernie F.

    Hooray For the Primeminister!! Its about time he stood up to the immature "children" that are called the "opposition". Has anyone including Mr. Coyne heard of the Olympics. Canadians are focusing on them, not the rowdy bunch who talk about nothing and keep trying to stop any form of parliamentary business from taking place. Enough said!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

      Let's see, after the Olympics, maybe Parliament should be prorogued because the G8/G20 will be coming up. Then, it'll be summer so Parliament obviously shouldn't sit since Canadians will be focused on that. I'm sure next fall Parliament could be suspended because there must be something coming up that will distract the public from the business of government… why don't we just forget about having a legislature altogether?

  • http://www.bluelikeyou.com/ Joanne (T.B.)

    I'm sure in all this pile of comments someone has pointed out the fact that we are talking about 15 days, right?

    Let's have some truth and perspective here, Mr. Coyne.

  • Bill Cooper

    Parliament was to reconvene on Jan 25 , now a new budget will be presented on Mar 3. How that translates into " Parliament being suspended for months" is not what I expected when I subscribed to McLeans because Andrew Coyne moved there. Andrew's newly acquired "righteous indignation" is so sadly shallow and vacuous compared to his previous life at the National Post. Thank Allah for Mark Steyn and Feschuk because McLeans is not anxious to offer refunds on subscriptions.

    • Colonel Angus

      Most Canadians dream of getting six weeks off, with full pay, for a holiday each year. The partisan excuses for Harper shunning his duty to Canadians are, as usual, laughable. But the partisan population is pretty stupid on the whole so it isn't exactly a surprise.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Calgarian Calgarian

    Andrew Coyne has called it like it is and I agree completely with his comments. Hopefully, Canadians will realize that Stephen Harper will do ANYTHING to hold on to power. The least of his concerns are the people of Canada who are struggling to make ends meet and expect our politicians to do the job they get paid to do. Our Governor General should not give in to Harper's every whim unless of course she is angling to get re-appointed to her "Royal" job.

  • Elaine Grace Young

    This is offensive and shameful. I do not understand how we let them get away with this. I did not vote for Mr. Harper and his ilk but my family and I suffer the actions of this dictatorship. No where else does any other employed people get a two month break. Do our taxes not pay their salaries? All Canadians should demand a tax rebate for those two months when nothing is getting done by our so called Democratic Government.

  • http://thefishshow.com/Archive/WATCHMENUNMASKED.htm trout

    Harper is an Oil Company Shah, and anyone who might actually provide Opposition is barred from play.
    "Revolt, you thick-skulled idiots" – Fritz the Cat

  • http://www.freewebs.com/frgadupont Bobby Hawley

    I'm really surprised at this kind of thinking coming from a person who seemed to display real intelligence as Andrew Coyne usually did. Imagine using words such as dictator, tyrant, King, Hitler etc. to describe Prime Minister Harper. The whole lot of the people making responses here appear to be totally misguided or ignorant of the facts or just brainwashed by their Liberal loyalties. I have watched question period before and it is so irrational nothing getts accomplished on any day. Children from the schools can't believe grow people can display such behaviour. It's a waste of time. Get out into the peace and quiet of their regions and get something worthwhile done. I watched that committee set up to deal with the Afghan detainee situation and it was a Liberal feeding frenzy to try to get something on this Government. A committee as partisan as this one should never have been allowed. Senator George Baker was being interviewed by Tom Clark about the legislation being passed and he was absolutely disgusting in his own contempt for his leader (Ignatieff) and the House of Commons.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/frgadupont Bobby Hawley

    So why did Harper Prorogue?
    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that. It only takes someone with minimal skils of observation and a few hours of viewing parliament in session during Question Period. It was like watching a preview of ' The Snake Pit'. Even if there was a question instead of an accusation the answer would never have been heard nor was it expected. The partisan committee for studying the Afghan Detainee situation had one purpose and that was to get the Government regardless of the cost to the generals or diplomats that were being interrogated.. It was a disgusting display of partisanship. Many of the liberal senators had chosen to defy their leader and the House of Commons and not put through legislation except on their own terms.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/frgadupont Bobby Hawley

    Harper has done and is continuing to do his job. He is not the only Prime Minister to prorogue parliament nor will he be the last. It's just a time out to cool all the hot heads. It's not for 3 months as some of the tyrannts wish to make you believe but about 22 days all told. Who is the liar, the tyrannt, Hitler, the dictator? The accusers are usually the most often the people to be afraid of. It's almost an impossibility to govern in an atmosphere such as is created by the opposition in this parliament. I fear the rabble rousers and the ignorance of the masses far more than Harper. I think he is doing a great job under very strenuous circumstances in dealing with the arrogance of the media and the irrational behaviour of the opposition in their quest for power.

  • http://www.freewebs.com/frgadupont Bobby Hawley

    Canadian Democracy spiralling further down the drain, Autocratic bully, Hidden agenda!! Are we in some kind of story of intrigue or espionage story about Prime Minister Harper? Really Andrew I gave you more credit than this. You of all people should be able to see some reason or rational in what Harper is doing and has very little choice in following this direction. Just look at the new Liberal bullying adds coming out. How about the add in which Harper was being assassinated? There was no hue and cry over that one. MacLeans magazine is definitely lowering its standards of late when I think of that stupid drivle you attempted last week in an attempt at humour. Harper is an honest man, a good Canadian and hopefully is not swayed by this disgusting display by some of the media and the liberals. The journalists should all try to be as objective as Bob Fife. He speaks his mind. Does not always approve of the Prime Minister but he is just.

  • http://www.yongyivalves.com safety valve

    I really like this article

  • http://www.floridafencecompany.com Jacksonville Fence

    Nice touch on the writing.

  • Anon #2

    "Question: In what other democracy…"

    First of all, you're supposed to be the smart guy and crack political writer here; why are you asking us a series of questions, Macauley Culkin-in-Uncle-Buck-style? If you've got something to say, say it – in the active – and slap a period on the end.

    Second. I disagree with the premise of the question. You can't pass legislation at the federal level without it being approved by an unelected Senate, one that is often stacked by the so-called "natural governing party" given our one-and-a-half party system; that cannot reasonably be described as a democracy.

    "the King will dismiss…"

    Yeah, the "King" who does not even command a majority of the seats in the lower chamber or the upper chamber. Get serious Coyne.

    Parliaments typically do not sit for twelve months of the year and a prorogue of this sort is actually not uncommon, notwithstanding your Teen Beat-meets-Capital Xtra! hysterics on the matter.

    And about this Afghan detainee bit that you're on about: It was a LIBERAL government that decided to invade and occupy Afghanistan (with nary a peep from the media, at least until Harper seized power), it was a LIBERAL government who signed us up for the dangerous Kandahar mission, and it was a CONSERVATIVE PM who, noting that we've been there longer than WWII lasted, decided to END THE AFGHANISTAN MISSION.

    Get that? This sticks to the Liberals, not the Conservatives, who inherited this mess from the Liberals and have pledged to put and end to it in 2011. Watching the media play partisan politics with such a grave matter honestly makes me nauseous.

  • http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

    I believe you may have it backwards Andrew.

    It is the opposition who are desperate to have this issue tried by the court of media elite opinion, rather than the court of public opinion. As a democracy the people will decide this issue, not the media elite.

    I suspect we will have an election shortly after the Olympics and the budget.

    An election those in opposition are desperate to avoid, all the while decrying our loss of democracy.

  • Chris B

    I cannot believe I have seen the day that ANDREW COYNE is considered a shill for the Liberals

  • Mike T.

    Less than 10 min. to get the talking points out.

    This was being planned even when they said they weren't planning to prorogue.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SirJohn_Eh SirJohn_Eh

    Your being an idiot Anon#2 and you know it dont you. Whatever helps the Conservatives stay in power is worth it to you isnt it. Andrews writing style in this BLOG is perfectly fine (actually great on short notice) to get his point across, you can compare Harpers actions of dissolving at this time to a "King's". And a prorogue of this sort is not common, Harper has not accompished goals and does not need a new throne speech. He needs to keep our MP's and media (the public) from digging at what hes hiding. And its is extremely obvious that the detainee issue does not "stick" to the Liberals, even if Harper decided to put an end date on the mission and teh LIberals were in power when we needed to go there.

  • C Donnar

    Hang on, there, My friend. It was a CONSERVATIVE government that was screaming at Paul Martin to send our troops TO IRAQ. Dont even TRY to say that the Conservatives are deciding to do things based on safety!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/cageyt cageyt

    "and it was a CONSERVATIVE PM who, noting that we've been there longer than WWII lasted, decided to END THE AFGHANISTAN MISSION. "

    The mission was to have ended 10 months ago in Feb 2009. It was this Conservative govt that decided not to end the mission but tried to make it an open ended commitment. It was only by the Liberals working out a compromise that we have an end date for this mission although at a later date than the original end date the Liberals have – again that was Feb. 2009.

  • shrilankalanka

    The question should be: why are Canadians dying for Bushes wars?
    The sooner Canada pulls out of this fiasco the better.
    Why are we wasting taxpayers money to debate if some Taliban was slapped by the Afgans? their own people must have a reason to do so because they have been harassed by the Taliban for so long. Why is it Canada's role to defend the terrorists?
    Mr. Coyne should be answering these questions.
    Perhaps we need a better Governor General that would not give in every time a PM asks to prorogue parliament.
    The Liberals have caused much of the problem, by bringing to Canada all the terrorists as refugees.

  • http://www.theendisalwaysnear.blogspot.com nahummer

    Anon #2. Guess reading at a grade two level has made it difficult for you to understand the point of the blog writer in this case. He was using a rhetorical in order to compare Harper's action to those of King Charles I a few hundred years ago.

  • http://myhemp.blogspot.com michaelkaer

    if that is so, why are they hiding behind national security? Either Mackay knew and he is guilty or totally incompetent and must resign. Hiding is a sign of guilt. I have another question about government secrecy, what about the 6000 paper documents around Marc Emery that are completely blacked out? Where is the issue there? A guy has the right to know what he is accused of and how the information was obtained. If we are just a sub-state of the U.S., lets just take orders from Obama directly and toss all of the house and the senate out. If we are not, I suggest the ALL politicians should be forced to give back much of their pay since they are not doing any work. As a Taxpayer I am their employer. If I had the power I would fire the lot of them. This is Dictator Harper's open government ( just one more big lie from the micro manager of all micro managers).

  • Mike T.

    I think he's a little loose with the idea of convention, but that's a minor point. Otherwise Coyne's post seems pretty decent.

  • wilson

    ''Harper has not accompished goals and does not need a new throne speech.''

    Coming out of the worst recession since the Great Depression in the best position of the G8 , in 9 months,
    is not a goal accomplishment?
    A Speech from the Throne is required to set a new path to balanced budgets.

  • wilson

    Coyne suggests:
    'If MPs are barred at the doors to Parliament — and wouldn’t that be an interesting scene — let them meet somewhere else.'

    They did that already, formed the coalition of losers……

  • Kremlinology

    "So unless the prorogue was required to give Harper a majority on the Senate Committees, I just don't see the point. "

    It was indeed required.

    And its a perfectly valid reason to stop what happened earlier with the ammendments to the drug and consumer safety legislation in the senate.

  • Anon

    Who's paying you to write this nonsense — the taxpayers who have to work two jobs to make ends meet or your mommy?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

    Look at all the "critically important" bills that will die on the order paper because Harper has cancelled Parliament, again.

    Harper was running ads in Quebec saying it was critically important to immediately pass certain child pornography laws and to delay it was tantamount to supporting child pornography. Does Harper support child pornography then, Wilson?

    He had many other measures he claimed were important in his throne speech. Accomplishing one goal does not mean he has to take the completely unprecedented and undemocratic and unaccountable measure of proroguing Parliament for the second time in one year.

  • Gayle

    We can thank Martin and Chretien for that wilson, as you well know. But in any event, please explain to us why, on one hand, you say it is enough that Harper wants his majority on the Senate, and on the other, it is enough that we come through the recession.

    As for accomplishing things, you might want to consider the fact that there will be many bills that will die on the table because of this prorogation. So how is it exactly that coming through the recession means we should ignore the time, effort and resources that have been devoted to the other legislation? Why are the taxpayers not entitled to see these bills go through?

    Go on – you know you can't, but it would be fun to watch you try (though you will probably ignore this post like you do the others you cannot answer).

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/cageyt cageyt

    "Coming out of the worst recession since the Great Depression in the best position of the G8 , in 9 months,
    is not a goal accomplishment? "

    France, Germany and Japan, all members of the G8 came out of the recession in the spring. Canada limped out out of the recession this Sept. with 0.1% GDP growth. Even the US had better growth then Canada in the that third quarter. We are no where near the "best position of the G8".

  • helen

    Hyperbole.
    That 9 month recession was nothing like the Great Depression.But nice try.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

    We had an election Biff. We elected 308 representatives.

    Accountability is not something that "occurs" only at election times at the whim of the Prime Minister.

  • Garbage Bear

    Harper is going to go "ALL IN". He is putting all his chips on the table by proroging Parliament, he will then appoint enough Senators for a Senate majority and then he will table a confidence bill that no opposition can support or even allow to pass by abscention. An election will be called and Harper will hope he is delivered a majority. If he loses his bet he will retire on a hefty taxpayer funded pension with his buddy Brian Mulroney in Florida.

    If he prorogues for the Olympics and shuts down the Afghan Inquiry, Harper should be prepared for the world media to shine the light on the issue.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/john_g2708 john g

    Thank you.

    Assuming you are correct, then I think you all in the media have completely dropped the ball on the proroguation story. This is why it is being done. Even Kady seems to have missed the boat on this one, which is surprising.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

    Regardless of the composition of the committees, Harper can still have his majority in the Senate without shutting down parliament. If the Cons are justifying yet another shutdown of parliament on that this reed then… well, I guess we ought to congratulate them on bothering with any justification at all.

    It's marginally better than "Because I feel like it."

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

    And the Government is responsible to Parliament.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

    The judgement of the people was rendered last year Biff. We said effectively we want to give Harper government but we also said we want a majority to be not Conservative and to keep a leash on Harper.

    Who does Harper think he is to ignore the will of the people?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

    Well so much for the talking point "Canadians don't want an election" Biff is usually particularly good at being up-to-date on his talking points.

  • Kremlinology

    Bills must go through committees and to be cleared from the committee require a majority vote I believe.

    So a senate majority is meanginless if there is not a committee majority – any bill, at anytime, could still be blocked.

  • Mike T.

    My problem with this theory is that any bill so bad that the other side would never pass it is also so bad it would lose the conservatives an election.

  • REM

    Lets just hope that the international media will shine its light on this issue.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

    But wouldn't the bill the committee is examining be dead on prorogation? Sure, they can try putting it through again, but maybe the opposition parties wouldn't pass it the second, or is it third, time around.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

    So a senate majority is meanginless if there is not a committee majority – any bill, at anytime, could still be blocked.

    Yes, the committees can still delay. But they can't force through amendments that are unpalatable to the Conservative majority. So Harper's proposed solution to potential Senate delaying tactics… is to shut down the whole works for another three months?!?!?!

    And that doesn't strike you as an absurdity?

  • Scott M.

    The trick though is that he didn't need to Prorogue TODAY. It's traditional to prorogue the Friday before the house is scheduled to meet, and by doing so the government committees can continue to function, etc.

    In fact, you can prorogue and restart at the normal time if you want.

    Proroguing now is clearly done just to stop the Afghanistan committee from meeting and to stop the parliament-ordered production of documents.

  • David B.

    Are you sure Sir/Madame? The Harper Reform/Alliance/Conservative Coalition saved by the David Orchard Incident took a $15 Billion surplus plus a $3 Billion emergency fund from the Canadian taxpayers and turned it into a $56 Billion plus the $18Billion deficit spending $74 B plus in 3 short years trapper! Those are the facts and should you disagree or others please state your share of the missing billions! Do not try and knock Paul Martin, Canadians had jobs and a plan in place with experienced people in place like them or not prior to he who said: Just Give me a Chance and I will show you Accountability and Transparency. It is a well known fact he has hidden/cooked the books as the AG has been denied access to many! Fact sweety. Happy New Year.

  • T. Adolf

    It wold be nice to know – if government is prorogued for 2 months – are their salaries prorated accordingly? In what other job can you say "Hey I'm shutting this place down so I can go party at the Olympics without worrying about the state of things, but don't worry fatcats, you'll all be paid for the 2 month leav e."
    It's disgustung and ridiculous, if they take an extra 2 months off they should not be paid for it. Let their paycheques go to the EI funds for those who wold like to be working but ca't get a job in this lovely Conservative climate.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

    Good point, I was just wondering about this very thing. The argument is made that bills can simply be restored to the same stage at the start of the new session but it's my vague recollection that this requires unanimus consent in the House. Why would the opposition parties give their consent?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

    Where did I say that you couldn't write the GG?

  • KRB

    If Parliament is prorogued, it means the government cannot advance its legislative agenda, which it is given special privilege in the House schedule to do. Shouldn’t the opposition parties like that fact? I thought Harper was hellbent on “changing Canada”, etc.? Can’t really do that w/o changing some laws, can ya?

    Duration of sessions of Parliament:
    http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/compilations/parl…

    You’ll see that Parliament used to only meet for 2-3 months in the Spring. That was the norm pretty much up until 1940, and even a bit after that. Many of our legislatures do not convene for a fall sitting. So why should the federal Parliament be different? Parliament’s main function is to approve a budget, grant supply, and to give its consent to any new taxes or levies.

    Parliament has for the last two years refused the gov’t’s request to extend the sitting of Parliament in the summer for an extra two weeks. Were any of you up in arms over that?

  • Jesse

    3 months traded for no more obstruction for so long as Harper shall ever be PM.

    How is that a bad trade off in the least ?

  • Jesse

    "Why would the opposition parties give their consent?"

    They did last time for most bills.

    I mean, they're making the arguement that Harper is killing bills and shutting down parliement – they'd be called out as hypocrites if they did the same thing wouldn't they ?

  • Ceeger

    What you said was the writing campaign would let the GG know "the will of Canadians." That is what is being taken to task here — your assumption that you know the will of Canadians, as if you somehow speak on all of their behalf.

    On what do you base that assertion? In fact, two people writing here in response to this post alone have proven that you obviously do not know the "will of Canadians" on this matter, and your letter-writing campaign would certainly not reflect them, so please don't presume that you speak for all.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

    As others have pointed out; he can achieve the exact same result in a period of 24 hours, if efficacy is really his concern. So let's dispense with the insulting fiction that this is being done to streamline Senate committees. It's being done to stiff-arm the opposition and – by direct extension – every voter, taxpayer, citizen and "client" in the entire country.

  • Gayle

    He actually might need a majority in the House for that Jesse.

    Though I must say I absolutely love the way the Harperites desperately cling on to the flimsiest of excuses in order to not have to admit he has failed to live up to his promises.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

    So speak for yourself. Write her. It's still a free country.

  • Gerry Whiteley

    Where did you ever come up with this drivel?!

  • Ceeger

    You call wilson's post nonsense, then you don't bother to disprove his claims or back up your own assertion that is it nonsense. Instead you resort to name calling. Is that the depth of your contribution to the debate? If so, I understand that Jerry Springer always needs members for his studio audience.

  • Jesse

    So you now agree that proroguing is nessecary but merely object to its length ?

    Talk about progress!

    My assumption is that the extra time is going to be used for Flaherty and the team to come up with a budget/throne speech.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/lgarvin lgarvin

    "they'd be called out as hypocrites if they did the same thing wouldn't they ?"

    I don't think so… the last time the opposition was striving to be seen as reasonable people willing to compromise. This time, I don't think they feel any such impulse. Nor should they. The Harper PMO has proven, beyond any doubt, that they are incapable of working cooperatively with anyone.

    The Conservatives can not be placated or appeased, they can only be confronted. I think the average Canadian understands that and the opposition – if they can properly convey the truth of the situation – are in a much stronger position than Harper appreciates.

    The last time he pulled this stunt, he had the sympathy of the public. This time, I think he's lost the sympathy and is actively promoting antipathy. May it come in spades.

  • Gayle

    In fact, they wanted to bring the crime bills back last time but Harper refused and instead reintroduced them and the entire process had to start again.

  • Bill

    So he shut down last year for 2 months at the peak of the crisis and now he;s shutting down for 3 months. Can we pro-rate their salaries for the time missed. Can the troops prorogue the bullets fired at them in Afghanistan?

    Harper is like the little fat kid who was too afraid to show up after school for a fight……so he ran.

    A coward by any other name………….

  • Ceeger

    No denial of my charge that you do indeed presume all Canadians share your view point, eh? Ok, good — then the point is taken as proven. On we go to other matters.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/doug_rogers doug_rogers

    I need to deny that your comprension is totally screwed ridiculous and partisan?

  • kcm

    Are you seriously comparing the workloads of pre-1940 parliament with today?
    As to provincial leg's not sitting, yes, there have been questions of a lack of respect for democracy there too…in particular BC and AB. I'm not familiar with the records of other pronvincial legislatures.

  • http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

    Conservative supporters have "talking points",

    Liberal supporters, "valid opinions".

    There are millions of conservative supporters out there, believe it or not. Not a small cabal of individuals who report directly to Harper.

    The suggestion that my opinions are not my own, but are pre-written for me by "head office", is not only completely untrue,

    it seems to be in keeping with the self soothing that goes on here among the liberals, that there couldn't possibly be free thinking Canadians that actually agrees with the CPC.

    And yet, here we are, with Nanos showing Harper's leadership numbers through the roof.

    Perhaps Nanos' random sample just happened to tap into every single member of Harper's staff reporting into "head office" for their respective "talking points."

  • KRB

    Yes, I am comparing the workloads. Lacking many of the productive tools and systems that we enjoy today, their workload might actually have been heavier than todays.

    The fact remains that with the government not having the legislature in session, it cannot effect any changes to laws. It can make changes to regulations, and if Parliament wants to gain a tighter grip on the government, perhaps it will want to take back some of those delegated legislative powers for itself.

    I agree that Parliament should be able to set its own business, rather than having its schedule controlled by the government. Perhaps bills that are able to get sponsored support from a whole swath of different party members, could be given priority over government-sponsored legislation. But what would need to happen in that case is that, for every hour of Government Business time taken, an hour given over to the opposition for holding the government to account would also have to be given up, to maintain our delicate balance of allowing the government to govern, and the opposition to be heard.

    (cont'd) …

  • KRB

    (cont'd from above)…

    Many things need to change in order for this to be effective … starting with changes to our Elections Act that give far too much power to party leaders, and take it away from individual district associations.

    The combined opposition could strike down any estimate or allocation that it wanted to … it could even grant supply up to only eleven-twelfths of the year, etc., which would necessitate the government recalling Parliament to grant that last twelfth, which would mean it would have to be recalled back in February at the latest, to grant supply for March.

    Basically, the opposition has to grow the cajones to stand up to the government, and see it through, all the way through an election if need be. I think a Parliament vs. Government ballot question is a total winner for the opposition parties, if they had the guts to take it on.

  • http://labradore.blogspot.com WJM

    The House of Assembly in Dannystan only meets as many times in a year as St. John's City Council does, or a little less.

  • kcm

    Thanks for the info…im not informed enough i'm afraid to dispute most of your points. I'd say we mostly agree, the opposition has to have the courage of its convictions…but i refuse to concede that an election is the only measure of legitimacy, when the parliamentary process is short cuircuted by a PM who seems to value populism above parliamentary legitimacy.

    While it's true the govt may not be able to make law while not sitting, it's equally true that it's not accountable…the main point at issue here surely?

    I'm still not convinced that a pre war parliament carried the same or heavier a workload than a 21st centuary Parliament…any more concrete evidence for that?

  • burlivespipe

    Just as long as you realize that CON "talking points" aren't valid for a majority of Canadians, we're fine…

  • http://theplaceofbiff.blogspot.com biff

    In a democracy, the elected officials are ultimately responsible to the people.

    All the people, not just the leftists in the editorial boards of the Globe, Star, and CBC and those who post on these comment boards.

    I appreciate you and yours wanting to avoid the will of the people like the plague.

    I for one, eagerly await the ultimate judgement of the people of Canada on this, and every other "scandal" hyped since Harper was elected.

  • Orson Bean

    The international media (except for foaming-at-the-mouth histrionic expat Heather Mallick) couldn't care less about what happens here.

  • Orson Bean

    Isn't that interesting. I was not aware that the opposition parties opposed the massive stimulus spending program that Canada has been doing for the past year or two. Who knew?

  • BCer in Mtl

    The opposition parties were opposed to the government putting themselves into a deficit situation BEFORE the recession even started.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

    One wouldn't feel the need to disprove the claims of the flat-earth society either.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

    Thank you cageyt

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