Categories: Coyne v. Wells

Coyne v. Wells on the prime minister's prorogative

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by macleans.ca on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 12:16pm - 56 Comments

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Tags: Andrew coyne, paul wells, Stephen Harper

http://intensedebate.com/people/Lord_Bob Lord Bob

Coyne's drinking Tim Horton's? Conservative partisan!

http://intensedebate.com/people/reasonninja reasonninja

I blame Feschuk for that meme.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

I am so very on side with Coyne on this one. But as he talks about "Parliament", I'm struck by how very much there is no parliament to speak of; so much as assembled parties.
http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

Agreed. There are nary a parliamentarian remaining in Parliament.
http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

Paul makes the really important dark horse issue here: Harper has not been getting things done. He has killed outstanding bills 3 times now in the last 16 months – two prorogues and one election – and he's now killed over half his agenda.

As Kady O'Malley pointed out today, 30 of the 33 bills Harper killed with this Harper Holiday were in Harper's hands, 17 of them had not even had a second reading. Only 3 of the bills were in the Senate.

What is Harper accomplishing? Not much. And he needs to "re-jig" his agenda?

This is not just an affront to democracy and democratic accountability, but a huge waste of time and cost having to re-introduce all of this again. Some of these bills have gone through this process now 3 or 4 times.

KRB

tedbetts, 34 bills were passed in 2009 (incl. 6 appropriation bills) … that's comparable to other years with minority Parliaments.

I don't get what you mean about 30 of 33 bills being in Harper's hands?

Also, could you please enlighten us to those bills that have gone through the process 3 or 4 times? (I just hate "throwaway lines" passed as fact w/o any backup proof)

Please also realize that bills can be reinstated to the same stage that they were last at, either right away thru unanimous consent, or within a couple days – after sufficient notice – by simple majority vote in the House.

The PM, in his interview with Mansbridge, made a cogent point: that the opposition could be using this time as well to formulate public policy positions to suggest to the government, or to advance before the public for discussion. Ignatieff, after all, has stated that he now understands that Canadians don't want an election, they want a viable alternative government. Time to put some meat on those bones …

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

A question they did not consider is how long the GG should allow this to continue. Twice she has prorogued parliament in a situation in which it was very clear that the majority of parliamentarians did not want to be prorougeed. It is only a convention that the GG takes the PM advice on proroguee matters, and as SH forces her to made bad decisions (bad in this case = bad for Canadian democracy) at some point she may not tolerate being abused. He may well create an activist GG. Fourteen months ago this would have been absure, now it seems almost inevitable given that Harper is unlikely to give up this strategy, the opposition is unlikely to unite and the public is watching the junior finals.

Those that hate those activist, unelected Supreme Court Judges would certainly not be pleased with an activist GG. It would be beautiful irony if SH was the one to create such a role.

KRB

Will never happen. A GG becoming activist will unnecessarily sully the image of the Crown.

Parliamentarians might not have wanted to be prorogued, but it's not their call. Parliamentarians granted Harper full supply for the rest of the fiscal year, agreed to his budget, and passed all his budget implementation bills. As such, there was no financial imperative to bringing the House back in January or February. Harper had the confidence of the House, and as such a prorogation request could not be denied.

Parliament can regulate the Royal Prerogatives, so it's in their power to act if they want to.

http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

Andrew, while getting together in the absence of Parliament being is session would have the bonus of having symbolic benefit, doing so does not have to be for primarily symbolic reasons. Opposition MPs could get together and negotiate an agenda for reforming Parliament (e.g., limits on the PM's power to prorogue) that they could later use their opposition days to legislate.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok SeanStok

"…but a huge waste of time and cost having to re-introduce all of this again. Some of these bills have gone through this process now 3 or 4 times. "

Yes, but you realize this works in favour of those who believe government is necessarily inefficient and bad? Like our current government, for example.

The more they f**k it up, the more their core beliefs start to make sense.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Skinny_Dipper Skinny Dipper

Sorry for some of you if you are seeing my repeated comment.

If we Canadians wish to protest, we need to protest peacefully on the streets with the desire to improve Canadian democracy. It is not good enough if we just go to some rally in some city hall square and yap about how the parliamentarians should get back to work on the 25th.
Dahl

What a laughable log rolling, back scratching club Coyne and Wells form here. Talk about drinking their own koolade.
The bias is overwhelming. Where is the balance in your roles as so-called "objective journalists"?
You both seem like extensions of the liberal party so why don't you have the honor to just run for office.
The Prime Minister broke no laws and has accomplished a lot.
Unlike the 40 or 50 year LPOC record of corruption, scandal and incompetance as evidenced in the utterly appalling Adscam Scandal, the infamous HRDC Boondoggle, the unbelievable Shawinigate Scandal, the totally wrong headed Gun Registry Scandal, the sleazy Canada Lands Scandal to name a few, bilking the Canadian taxpayer out of MILLIONS for decades and directing the misappropriated lucre to… themselves!!
The LPOC has proved FOREVER where their loyalties lie and that the liberals put the interests of their party and it's vast coterie of bloddsuckers and hangers-on above the interests of Canada and the Canadian people.
There is still $48 MILLION of Canadian taxpayer dollars missing to this day.
Stephen Harper, while not being exactly a media spotlight celebrity darling, is an absolute straight shooter of a guy trying to do his honest best for Canada in a sea of leftwing, shilling connivers.
Canadians coast to coast relate and as Dan Cook wrote today about the prorogation :only 0.06% Of Canadians Are Mad; and you two are most definitley in that .06%

.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

For anyone keeping score at home: I'm the hanger-on, Coyne's the bloddsucker. Sometimes in summer he's the bloddsucker in seersucker.
bettie

My take on this prorogation is this: The Prime Minister has had a very busy fall… and the spring of 2010 appears to be shaping up to be busy as well, as we all know. Normally Question Period is a huge waste of time… rarely does the opposition ask good penetrating questions. Rather, their goal appears to be to dredge up a scandle, any scandle will do. There is a lot of sound and fury, red, contorted faces, which generally signifies nothing. (Multidude of examples could be given). Question Period consumes a lot of of the Prime Minister's time. What I think is that he wants a bit of time to think things through. He said himself that he wants to focus on the next phase of the economic plan… that can't be done hurridly.. It has to be thought through carefully. I don't see all the nefarious machinations the opposition and media are accusing him of. I think he says what he means… he said he wants time to focus on the economy… but this explanation from him has been completely ignored by almost all writers.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SirJohn_Eh SirJohn_Eh

How often does Harper really go to Qeestion period anyways? Just enough to keep his absences from being another story it seems. He could just send Dmitri over every day to blather from the gallery and it would be just as productive as it has been.

Dahl

0.06%

If you are going to be such a smart ass liberal partisan under your cover of so-called 'journalistic objectivity'; at least have SOME honor… run for election. That'd be a stretch!
http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

Of the 33 bills Harper killed, 17 had not even received second reading in the House, 8 were in House committees, 5 or so were being held up by the Conservatives and only 3 were even in the Senate.

The Harper Holiday killed over half his fall agenda. Crime bills. Consumer protection bills. Election reform bills. Some of these had already been introduced two or even three times before.

Harper is good at introducing bills with lots of fanfare and attention. He's just not so good at getting things done.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

This guy over here worries that I'm a smart-ass Conservative partisan:

http://mrsinistergreg.blogspot.com/2010/01/clarif…

Tell you what. Why don't you two have a conference call, and when you get it figured out, get back to me. Incidentally, when did you run for office, Mr. Steak Knives?
http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

Accountability and democracy do take a lot of time, I agree. Except, sorry, but we the people want it that way. The Prime Minister doesn't get to pick and choose which elements of democracy and accountability are convenient or inconvenient for him.

As for working hard, as I noted above, of the 33 bills Harper killed, 17 had not even received second reading in the House, 8 were in House committees, 5 or so were being held up by the Conservatives and only 3 were even in the Senate.

The Harper Holiday killed over half his fall agenda. Crime bills. Consumer protection bills. Election reform bills. Some of these had already been introduced two or even three times before.

Harper is good at introducing bills with lots of fanfare and attention. He's just not so good at getting things done.
Dahl

Nailed on the nose Accelor!
Coyne and Wells know all the liberal Senate machinations perfectly well and continue to shill for the liberals in the face of all this.
Pathetic.
http://intensedebate.com/people/hellomike hellomike

This is great, I love the caps lock words! Best CBC comment parody I've seen in a long time. Cheers!
http://intensedebate.com/people/Accelar Accelar

What's the point of re-introducing crime bills or election reform bills as these are routinely gutted, stalled or massively revised in the Senate? If the Government can't pass its legislative agenda, it doesn't matter if there is 1 bill or 1000 bills that die on the order paper, responsible government must do something.

Harper is great at getting things done!

This time, he prorogued parliament to facilitate the appointment of 5 new Senators and place them on committees in order to get even more done in the future!

Well done Stephen!

http://intensedebate.com/people/SirJohn_Eh SirJohn_Eh

Why didnt he prorogue Jan.24 th or some such date? Why stop everything now? Only logical reason is Harper couldnt let the Afghan detainee comittee proceed as it was.

BobbyB

I strongly object that proroigation is OK for Harper and the Conservatives to do! The Government of Canada is for all Canadians and not just Conservatives! The Parliament of Canada is the office where the governments business is carried out and NO business gets done when the office is closed! There are many many bills that need to get through that are very important for Canadians whether they be Liberal, Bloq, NDP, Conservative and Harper taking a vacation from Parliament with the bogus rational for prorogation hits home in that it says that Conservatives do not lead and govern Canada for all Canadians they are only interested in Conservatives. What is the matter with the Harper Conservatives working with the other parties to get the best legislation through Parliament for the benefit of Canadians vs just for the benefit of Conservatives? Is this concept of leading Parliament and Governing Canada for Canadians something that Harper has a problem understanding? Does he have sonmething wrong that won't allow him to treat all Canadians equally and try to show real leadership and govern without treating non-Conservatives as less than worthy? Can he really be that ignorant and arrogant?
Accelar

What a laughable log rolling, back scratching club Coyne and Wells form here. Talk about drinking their own koolade.
Dahl

What's the point of re-introducing crime bills or election reform bills as these are routinely gutted, stalled or massively revised in the Senate? If the Government can't pass its legislative agenda, it doesn't matter if there is 1 bill or 1000 bills that die on the order paper, responsible government must do something.

Harper is great at getting things done!

This time, he prorogued parliament to facilitate the appointment of 5 new Senators and place them on committees in order to get even more done in the future!

Well done Stephen!
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

Oops. I think the record just skipped. Dahl, meet Accelar. How odd that you showed up at the same time. Saying the same thing. Congratulating each other. Spelling koolade the same wae.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

Nice try, Einstein.
Dahl

So THIS is what passes for big league "objective journalism" these days?
Laughable.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

'bye, trolls.