Inkless Wells

Inkless Wells

Paul Wells on all the latest out of Ottawa—along with the occasional post about jazz. Follow Paul on Twitter: @InklessPW
He also offers his thoughtful perspective of Stephen Harper’s last 10 years in his recent eBook, The Harper Decade.

Rights and Democracy: Well aren't we busy

by Paul Wells on Thursday, January 21, 2010 7:40pm - 105 Comments

Ezra Levant has access to a lot of documents from Rights and Democracy, showing discretionary spending he really doesn’t like. Clearly admirers of the organization’s new board are prepared to fight really hard to see that the recent changes there stick. We’ll see whether their opponents have similar amounts of fight in them.

UPDATE: Ezra calls Rights and Democracy’s $110,000 cheque to the United Nations’ High Commission for Human Rights “a deliberate and flagrant contradiction to Canada’s foreign policy.” You know who else cut a cheque to the United Nations just four months after Rights and Democracy did? The Conservative government of Stephen Harper. For $73 million. I’m telling you, these UN-lovers are everywhere.

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  • http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

    Is there any reason whatsoever to listen to a word that Ezra Levant has to say?

    Even if I'd never heard of him, the hyperbolic drama queen language in this little hit piece would set off a giant Ah-ooo-Gah! alarms.

    • Mulletaur

      I think he Levant been referred to lately as a 'rodeo clown', which I find particularly appropriate.

      • BCer in Mtl

        Why do hate rodeo clowns?

      • BCer in Mtl

        ooops . .. Why do you hate rodeo clowns?

        • Mulletaur

          Fair comment, that was completely uncalled for. I humbly apologize to all rodeo clowns who may have been offended by this comparison.

          • Rodeo Clown

            Apology accepted

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

      I like that you've referred to him as a drama queen. (I actually was/am still on his side re the whole Danish cartoon thing…) Anyhow, he's always SO hyperbolic, SO hysterical, he should have his own weekend stage show at a Church Street bar.. well, if that bar discussed small-c conservative politics instead of divas and dimples…

      • Mike T.

        If you mean that Human rights commissions shouldn't conduct full scale hearings into what representations the Western Standard chooses to publish, then surprise! You also agree with the Human Rights Commission! (Remember, the complaint never went to hearing, it was dropped after a short investigation).

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/WDM WDM

    I read 'Shakedown' and actually enjoyed it, it was an interesting read. But Ezra Levant really does get tiresome.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/c_9 c_9

      Good read, but without a single footnote, it can be shelved near the fiction. There are facts in it, but how to spot them?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

        They're in scare quotes.

  • http://www.ezralevant.com Ezra Levant

    Hi Paul. Thanks for the link. Of course, I think Canada ought to leave the corrupt UN in favour of some international meeting place for democracies. Right now China and Russia use their vetos to protect Iran, Sudan and North Korea. Let’s leave that swamp.

    Until that day arrives, I regret that paying Canada’s UN dues remains a legal duty, if not a moral one.

    There is no comparison between that and a $700,000 gratuity this NGO simply gifted to the most corrupt arm of the UN — its “human rights” fraud. And taking that from funds meant to help fledgling democrats in the same dictatorships that run the UNHCR? Disgusting.

    That $700,000 belonged to the student protesters in Iran, n

    • Anon

      "I regret that paying Canada's UN dues remains a legal duty, if not a moral one."

      You using the word "moral" should be illegal.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

        I second that.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

          Wow. They're STILL after Ezra's freedom of expression!

    • common man

      Thank-you for the clarification concerning the 73 million paid annually to the UN as a membership due from the Canadian gov`t. From everything i`ve read above, I assumed this was a volunteer donation like that made by the Rights and Democracy group.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

      I agree the security council is useless– in fact, mostly because of Russia and China. But the US and UK have never used their obstructive vetoes for petty political points?

    • Daveyy

      like the US, France and the UK have never used their veto to protect their allies

    • Maureen

      I agree there is a huge difference between the government of canada giving money (which I still think is wrong) but at least there is some accountability and a NGOt doing so with no board approval of such. The strengths of NGOs should be the oversight of a board providing direction and accountability. Clearly prior to this new board, there was no oversight and accountability by the board and the 'staff' made the decisions – that is never a good situation.

      Having said that I would prefer that this NGO disappeared completely unless it is prepared to follow its mandate. But even then, I think its mandate is well within what the government should be doing.

  • http://www.ezralevant.com Ezra Levant

    …Sorry, commenting from my BlackBerry.

    Those $700,000 were supposed to go to the student protesters in Iran, not to the Ahmadinejad-loving UNHCR. That’s a fraud against R&D’s mandate of agitating for freedom.

    • Anon

      Fraud?

      Cue the libel suit.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

      It's absurd to argue that R&D would be consciously pro-Ahmadinejad. This guy sees a conspiracy under every rock.

    • Mulletaur

      No doubt your imprudent words on this page will be used by the Iranian security forces against student protesters in Iran as proof that they are in the pay of hostile foreign powers, thus justifying their mistreatment. You really do need to grow up, Ezra. Perhaps then you will be taken more seriously.

      • Mike T.

        Even Iranian security forces would be like "Levant? Who believes anything that charlatan says? Is Macleans publishing his crap wholesale again?"

    • BCer in Mtl

      Shame on you Ezra. I read the link you posted regarding Shawan Jabarin (the court judgement). I would have thought you of all people would have skepticism about proceedings of any court in any country making decisions on the basis of secret information. I would have thought you would have noticed the parallels with our HRC's. The language they use is so over the top, its hard to believe that a court rendering that judgement would be impartial. Sounds like they may have used the same standard of evidence as was used against Maher Arar.

      Its not that these bodies should not be subject to monitoring or be uncritically accepted. It is a useful function when performed honourably and honestly, not to push a political agenda. But when you show a breathtaking lack of critical examination toward judgements rendered based on secret information furnished by a security organization that might be involved in the abuses this individual investigates, well, you might wonder why your credibility is dismissed by serious observers.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      Mr. Levant, how did you get access to these documents?

      • Anon Liberal

        Ha! Good luck getting an answer on that one.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

    Would it be possible to somehow strand Ezra and Kinsella on a small island somewhere?
    With cameras? I would consider changing my anti reality TV stance…

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      I'd almost pay money to see that.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

        Careful – you don't want to pull a Michael Vick!

    • common man

      My money is on Ezra; he`s small but tough. Like a Jack Russell Terrier. Kinsella`s a softie.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

        Ezra would be meaner with words, but Kinsella would (successfully) shiv him to death first, but then feel really guilty afterward.

  • Mulletaur

    That's no way to speak about the G.O.P., Jack.

    • Orson Bean

      Nicely played.

  • kcm

    'Of course, the Liberal house Jew Irwin Cotler is silent on the subject – he’s proved many times that he can sit in silence while his party defames Israel"

    Ezra may have a point or two re: how the money is spent, [ nothing about how govt money is spent shocks me anymore] but comments like this one constantly remind one just what a pathetic human being he is at times. I can't believe the guy isn't sued every single day…or at least punched in the face everyday a la Doyle. Why should anyone listen to such an objectionable person?

    • kcm

      Oops…should have read: punched on the nose…not advocating violence of course.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      You have tripped over the nugget, kcm. Nobody HAS TO listen to him. Which is vastly different from the "How can we make him shut up" line so many seem to spew.

      • Mike T.

        It's certainly worth asking why a major news outlet would give him a voice, however.

        • kcm

          MYL may be just a tad off here. No one has to listen to me, but a good deal more people listen to say PW or Ezra. A fair degree of difference. However his point is about not silencing Ezra isvalid.

        • Reader

          Isn't there a law about "crying wolf"? A voice, and freedom of speech aside — habitual distortion of reality can be dangerous — unless you make it clear that it's parody or comedy, no? I guess that's why we have libel laws. Problem is, Levant seems to be the "ambulance chaser" of political opinion.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

            Yes, there is. If you feel you have been the victim of Levant's libel, you have a legal remedy available to you.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

    I thought Paul was crafting a strawman by suggesting Ezra was anti-UN, rather than just opposing R&D sending money there rather than something closer to their mandate. But can strawmen type?

  • AM2010

    Like democracy, the UN sucks until you consider other options.

    • Peter

      Swiss bankers certainly would agree.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

    Busy night on the comment board, which is never a problem. I'd be grateful if everyone could show a bit of restraint in tossing accusations around. Thanks.

    • Anon

      *groan*

    • Orson Bean

      Hey, at least it hasn't (yet) degenerated into the umpteen-zillionth re-hash of the Israel-Palestinian debate. BTW if it does, feel free to close comments. That'd be like a justified mercy killing.

      • kcm

        I wonder if he means Ezra too?

      • kcm

        My biggest nightmare is somehow a middle eastern low colliding with an upper trough climate change cold front…now that would be a perfect storm.

  • Anon Liberal

    Yep, an anti-Ezra is badly needed. Maybe we can get Ralph Nader to become a Canadian citizen.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

      That might be inconvenient for his 2012 presidential campaign.

      • Anon Liberal

        Bonus.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

      I thought Ezra was the anti-Ezra.. at least if you actually read what he writes.

  • Mulletaur

    I'm really not sure why we even need an organization like Rights and Democracy. What external credibility does such an organization have when it is funded 100% by the government ? There are many other NGO's which do this sort of work without direct government funding and no doubt do it much better. Instead of this Stalinist purge of people they disagree with in the organization, why don't the Conservatives have the courage to simply abolish it ?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      why don't the Conservatives have the courage to simply abolish it ?

      Because it would take courage.
      Because the offices are in Montreal.
      Because the words "Human Rights" are involved.
      Because they say a thing or two about "women's rights" on their website.
      Because Harper STILL remembers the blowback for not increasing arts funding enough.
      Because, while Harper is many things, he is not deliberately politically suicidal.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

        I guess that's the fundamental question on this R&D thing: is it legitimate to do by stealth what you don't have the courage, or political capital, to do openly? Levant, I presume, would say YES (as long as it's good policy); but it does seem rather undemocratic. If a policy is a good one, surely it can be defended in public; if it's unacceptable to the general public no matter how skillful the defense, surely it's wrong to impose it.

        • Orson Bean

          But I'm curious here — aside from the (obviously bitter) spat over the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and the issue of spending controls, is there anything else substantive that the Harper appointees are accused of going after? What I mean is, have any of these appointees, or the Harper govt, gone on record as saying that they oppose anything else that R&D has historically championed? Many of the comments here suggest that there's some move to nuke R&D altogether, by stealth. But the only substantive thing that I've been made aware of is an internal dispute (a very bitter one apparently) over policy towards Israel. But have there been other issues?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

            I'm as much in the dark as you are. I think it's just Israel-Palestine proxy bickering . . . with soccer, the only sport that requires no equipment.

          • Mulletaur

            I'm not questioning so much the issues they choose (after a quick look at their Web site and last Annual Report) but their effectiveness. I don't think we need to fund such an organization with public money given that its credibility is necessarily reduced automatically by the direct connection to the Canadian government. Now that it has become a partisan plaything of the Conservatives (whereas before it was a nice sandbox for Dippers to play in) it seems to me even less credible. There are plenty of NGO's that do this work well and effectively already. Perhaps this would be a good place to save the taxpayer some money.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

        Exactly. You cant change things when you've sent yourself to the sidelines. Obama is on track to be learning that lesson in a little less than 3 years.

  • JamesHalifax

    I just think people on these blogs are not used to hearing things put in such a non-polite way, which is Ezra's forte. He doesn't waste time trying NOT to offend anyone.
    He's usually right though….check out his track record on the sprious suits brought against him by such thin-skinned folks like Warren (Can dish it out but not take it) Kinsella, or the Islamic nut-jobs who use Canadian laws and tribunals to promote un-Canadian values. (Censorship)

    Say what you want about Ezra……he can take it…whereas, apparently, when he returns the favour, many others cannot.

    • Maureen

      Exactly – the trait I hate most about Canadians is the way we think we have to polite to excess about issues that should be of concern to every Canadian. The results is namby pamy, incipient responses that keeps everyone more or less happy, but solves nothing.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

        No room between polite to excess and offensive?

      • Anon

        "Exactly – the trait I hate most about Canadians is the way we think we have to polite to excess about issues that should be of concern to every Canadian."

        Pipe down, you cretin. No one cares what you think.

        There. Polite enough for ya?

        Ezra's an ass. He lies, he defames, he interrupts people, he sneers and chuckles and he's all around offensive and unpleasant.

        Put me on the CBC with him. I'll tear him a new one.

        • Orson Bean

          Cage match!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Nich Nich

      Hyperbole is a legitimate form of expression, as are sandwich boards warning of the coming Apocalypse.

      When that Apocalypse comes, that sandwich board guy sure is going to be happy.

      When reality reflects the hyperbole, that angry blogger sure is going to be happy.

    • Mike T.

      Actually, the infuriating thing about Levant is that he is usually dead wrong.

      • kcm

        Calling Irwin Cotler "a house jew"…that should really be "of concern to every Canadians"?

        What a sad apologia for having no respect/courtesy no class.

  • Dave

    How can Ezra get documents so easily, when my ATIP requests get the runaround?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

    Qui veut noyer son chien l'accuse de la rage.

  • Mulletaur

    Quite, but that's why I am so perplexed about what the Conservatives are playing at here. The purge came first, then the accusations. If they try to get rid of it now, it will cost them more politically than if they had simply sent in the auditors, declared that it was giving money to a banned terrorist organization (if I understand their accusations correctly) and then used this as a pretext to cut funding immediately before the opposition got a chance to get their dander up. Very strange.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

    Obama is pro-Ahmadinejad, why would it be absurd for some R/D members?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    Only nutcases think anybody in the USA is pro-Ahmadinejad.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

    Oh just for sport, let's ask jolyon to back up that little turd of an accusation.

    I'll wait right here.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/DerekPearce DerekPearce

    He's also pro Death Panel and pro Terrorist Joylon, don't forget.

  • Orson Bean

    M, did the Tories actually purge anyone? I mean, actually remove or fire anyone from the board or staff of Rights & Democracy?

  • Anon Liberal

    Isn't promoting democracy a neocon agenda item? As such they would be behind the stated goals of this organization. They just disagree on how to promote it, what qualifies as a democracy, and what sorts of groups should be promoted. Details, details…

  • Mulletaur

    First, the Harper government put enormous pressure on president Rémy Beauregard to change the orientation of Rights and Democracy, which Beauregard resisted until he died in his sleep from a heart attack. Then the Harper government appointed a new president of Rights and Democracy, Aurel Braun, who continued this pressure from within, resulting in the resignation of other board members and their replacement by ones more in line with Conservative policy and thinking. At the same time, employees of the organization complained of "psychological harassment" and "intimidation". At the same time, members of the board of directors of Rights and Democracy are asking the ethnic origin of employees and whether they speak Arab.

    Of course, Stevie didn't show up with a bunch of thugs and give the knock at 5 am, subsequent to which, board members perceived as hostile to the Harper Conservative agenda disappeared, never to be heard from or of again. He didn't have to – he just had to appoint board members who are sympathetic to the Harper Conservative agenda when others leave because they can no longer stand the harassment, or die of heart attacks, like Beauregard did, no doubt at least contributed to by the immense pressure the Harper government put on him to fall into line. But the concrete effects are the same. This is an ideological purge. attack. Stalin used the same tactics in taking over democratic organizations in Eastern Europe after the Second World War. Conservatives who believe in freedom should be ashamed.

  • Mulletaur

    The word 'attack' before the beginning of the second last sentence is superfluous and should have been removed by me during editing.

  • kcm

    Agree. I can't be arsed to actually pay any serious attention to the issues he's raising, since he offends and mis-represents others so indiscriminately. The truly offence remark about Cotler being a case in point.

  • Maureen

    Who cares if Erza goes over the top – it is his right to do so. He is a private citizen. I think the only problem that people have is that Erza is committed, vocal, does his research and can write and speak rings around his opponents. So those that don't like Erza, suck it back and find a worthy opponent.

  • Orson Bean

    M, I take your point, but some of your rhetoric — e.g., equivocating this stuff to Stalin's tactics — is way over the top. Sorta like Ezra.

    If you haven't read it, you ought to read Martin Amis' Koba the Dread re: Stalin and what he did. Stalin killed millions and millions of people. For starters.

    And this assertion about Beuregard's death, that's the kind of accusation that Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly would make. If I'm in a feud with someone, and then I get in a really bitter, nasty argument with that person tonight, and they happen to die of a heart attack after they go to bed tonight, does that mean I caused their death?

  • common man

    So you are apologizing for using the word " attack " but you are okay with making a connection between the " Harper Conservative agenda " and the mass eliminations of people under Stalin and then you want me to take seriously the rest of what you write.

    Why do your allies in the anti-Ezra camp not correct you when you make such an error ?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

    Harper. Stalin. Concrete effects are the same. Might you want to just tiptoe back from that a wee bit?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

    think you might be waiting for a while.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    Stalin had more than one tactic; he didn't just kill millions and millions of people his whole career, he used every means to enhance his power.

  • Orson Bean

    Look, I'm sure that Stalin did all sorts of things to consolidate his political power. Some of them were homicidal, some of them were criminal, and some of them were no different from stuff that politicians in nice Western liberal democracies do, like having roads paved to please important people and constituencies, and naming cronies and friendly people to important positions (even the sainted Obama does the latter). Does this mean that any politician who names friendly cronies to important positions = Stalin? When FDR stacked the U.S. Supreme Court, did that make him Stalin's equal?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    Why does every comparison imply equation? Nobody's Stalin's equal, or even very much like Stalin. Personally I use figures like Stalin and Hitler as benchmarks of what not to do and what to suspect. It's a mistake to do so out loud, maybe, because people are always looking for an excuse to freak out; but I find it simply incredible that we would not seek to learn something from their political careers. And, for good measure, we can even bring ourselves to write just "Hitler" and "Stalin" and not feel compelled to add in "the enemy of humanity, Hitler" or "that satanic mass murderer, Stalin" every time we feel like referencing WWII, the biggest event in human history.

  • kcm

    Wow there is a lot of testosterone flowing out there tonight – i've only just read them all. [is it a full moon?] Ezra obviously evokes strong feelings and opinions all around.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

    This has crossed my mind so many times.
    Glad I am not the only one who has commented on this frustration.

  • common man

    When we had Liberal PM`s and they were molding everything from the Senate to the Roads Dept. with Liberal supporters those of us who were Lib. critics would never think of using Stalin`s name to describe Chretien`s actions because that would be irrational and self-defeating.

    Recently there has been a tendency of those on the left to use any angry means to try to get their point across. Look at Suziki; he can be verbally violent in a debate. A little restraint on your part might help us to listen more closely to your arguments. So when i ask that you admonish those that cross the line some of you take it a step further and announce that it`s now okay to use Stalin as a benchmark because we could " learn something from his political career ".

    Here`s a hint: when you don`t want your comment to be " literally comparing Harper with Stalin " then don`t try to be cute with your Stalinist comparisons. And for those of you who enjoy those comparisons, just let it cross your mind; don`t defend it.

  • Orson Bean

    Ok Jack, but I just want to make sure that I understand what your bottom-line position is on this: are you saying that anytime a Canadian politician or government appoints a sizeable number of like-minded partisans to any government board, agency, tribunal, court, etc., it is fair and appropriate to say that that politician or government is acting like Stalin?

  • Orson Bean

    I too find it unfortunate that Ezra seems to have significant problems in holding his rhetoric, etc. in check, because some of the issues he raises actually are important (e.g., the powers of our HRCs to regulate speech). But he gets so hyperbolic and over-the-top that he alienates many people who would otherwise be inclined to give him a halfway sympathetic hearing, if he weren't essentially foaming at the mouth. One aspect of this Rights & Democracy issue has to to with institutional checks/controls on spending, discretionary spending, etc., and that is an imporant and legitimate issue.

  • Mulletaur

    A purge is a purge. What kind of purge ? It's a purge. And when you have a good purge, it's because it's purged.

  • kcm

    Hah that's real funny. I don't follow the Ezra, it's not about me saga, that closely. And yet i have no problem in finding reasonable dissenting opinions to his – and lots of credible rebuttals. He can go over the top all he likes. But as with everyone who choses to go down that road, if it makes him a target, that's legit too. Your everyone else is a whiner shstick doesn't scan.

    The old maxim;" You're entitled to your opinions sir, but not your own facts." could have been written expressly for him.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

    Your point about Ezra Levant being a private citizen is very well taken. Now, do you know how he got access to these documents?

  • Mulletaur

    I think you meant Suzuki, and I agree that he is completely over the top (and a fraud to boot). But he expresses an opinion, he doesn't have the power to purge people with different political opinions from his from organizations which are supposed to be promoting democracy. Harper's tactics are every bit the Salami tactics used by Stalinists in the East of Europe after the Second World War. If that comparison makes you feel uncomfortable, you should try to pursuade Harper to change his tactics.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Inkless Inkless

    See I think you're actually getting at something here. (And you know how rarely I compliment your insight.) I've got really good friends who are delighted with the changes at Rights and Democracy. It's like I wrote a couple of days ago: Politics is almost always a clash of legitimacies in which everyone, on every side, believes himself to be acting in good faith. The Conservatives don't want to promote less rights and democracy, they want to promote them differently. Which does not make them immune from scrutiny and criticism about their choices and method.

  • Mulletaur

    I wouldn't pretend to answer for Jack, but as this stems from something I wrote, I will put in my two-penneth.

    As Jack rightly points out, I didn't write that Harper was Stalin, nor did I compare the results of their policies in any way. I simply pointed out that the tactics used are the same, namely (although I did not post it in this chain) szalámitaktika or 'salami tactics'.

    Perhaps these tactics are perfectly legitimate. It may be that despite the fact that both Hitler and Stalin used these tactics to consolidate their power, we should consider such tactics legitimate, as to do otherwise is simply to make a kind of ad hominem argument against them. After all, we do not criticise modern commercial advertising on the grounds that at least some of the techniques used were pioneered by Goebbels.

    I welcome your comments to clarify whether you believe these tactics to be legitimate or not.

  • Mulletaur

    Putting your comments together with what Levant has written here, it seems that the Conservatives want to turn Rights and Democracy into a kind of "National Committee for a Free Europe" but oriented towards the Muslim world. If that is indeed their idea, they should drop it immediately. This isn't the Cold War. People who lived in Eastern Europe would have welcomed non-Communist interference in their affairs – many wondered why we didn't invest in overthrowing their puppet governments by force. The same cannot be said for Muslim countries. Without exception, they are very suspicious of any attempt by the United States, and by association, Canada, to influence their affairs, no matter how well intentioned. If it is our government's policy to give material aid to organizations in other countries which seek to overthrow existing governments, essentially funding subversion, this should not be done through organizations which are under public scrutiny.

  • Orson Bean

    M (& Jack), I think I understand. I guess where I'm coming from (and perhaps why I'm overly sensitive about this) is that this kind of comparison reminds me of a more general trend in our political discourse, and that is the dilution or debasement of certain terms and concepts through overuse, inappropriate use, etc. The two classic examples we see these days are the (over)use of the terms "genocide" and "war crimes/war criminal". Especially genocide. It used to be that you actually had to attempt to wipe out an entire race of people or ethnic group in order to be accused of genocide. No longer.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    Couldn't agree more. I guess it comes down to the fact that a lot of Stalin's crimes and other actions were not themselves "Stalinesque," just standard operating procedure for tyrants. But if you talk about them as, I dunno, Pinochet-esque, or De Gaulle-esque, or whatnot, nobody notices because only WWII and its prewar and postwar politics have been mythologised — in a good sense, i.e. only those events and figures carry any weight. How pleased one feels with oneself if one can quote Churchill — but a similar (or wiser) sentiment in the mouth of Gladstone or Disraeli, or Sir John A? Doesn't cut it; nobody's listening; it's yesterday's myth, without even the charm of antiquity. So too with the great 20th C tyrants. Yet I think we miss out on a lot via Godwin's Law (and the Stalin equivalent), because Stalin's crimes are mainly the logical extension of a contempt for the individual, as Hitler's are mainly the logical extension of a hatred for liberalism and of anti-Semitism (if those are not ultimately synonyms): so when we see ideas today that remind us of the roots of Stalinism and Nazism, it's worth remembering that neither movement began by murdering millions of people. On the other hand, as you say, anything can be worn out by overuse — "genocide" being a great example, which has strayed so far from its etymological meaning ("the killing of a race"; cf. fratricide, matricide, patricide, etc.) that it's hard to grasp it anymore. And so with Hitler, and apparently nowadays with Mao too: the teabaggers have, I believe, been comparing Obama to Hitler and Stalin simultaneously, which goes to show how far both tyrants' photographs have faded. My solution would be to expand the range of historical exempla we can invoke, but that would require our intellectuals no longer to take the lowest common denominator as their guideline / lifeline — as they're apparently compelled to do by their democratic conscience, guilty as it already is of thinking.

  • Mulletaur

    There is only one lesson that one can learn from this history : ideology = death.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

    Hear hear. And the corollary: truth = life.

  • Mulletaur

    Absolutely.

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