Categories: Capital Diary

Toronto Proroguing Protest: polar bears and Spartans

The Canadians Against Proroguing Parliament Toronto protest saw thousands gather in Dundas Square. Below,…

by Mitchel Raphael on Saturday, January 23, 2010 3:54pm - 145 Comments

The Canadians Against Proroguing Parliament Toronto protest saw thousands gather in Dundas Square. Below, Toronto Liberal MP Rob Oliphant is with the Spartans.

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Toronto NDP MP Olivia Chow.

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Toronto Liberal MP Martha Hall Findlay.

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Liberal Senator Art Eggleton.

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Playwright Brad Fraser.

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The people.

Tags: Art Eggleton, Brad Fraser, Canadians Against Proroguing Parliament, Martha Hall Findlay, Olivia Chow, Rob Oliphant

More by Mitchel Raphael

Bridget

I was at Jim Flahrety's riding office in Whitby Ontario – it was a great spirited showing of individuals who care deeply for the heart of our democracy – Parliament. Stand up for Canada. WL Mackenzie must be rolling in his grave. Why the heck are we still fighting the Tories for responsible government nearly 200 years later?
http://intensedebate.com/people/DaveFromToronto DaveFromToronto

I was worried about the speakers – they went on a bit too much about issues that were tangential to the reason why most everybody was there. Duff Conacher was the best at staying on message.

I disagree with Jack – I think that the protest needed to be as gentle and as nice as possible, so as to drive home the point that the protesters weren't rabble rousers or members of the so-called chattering classes – these were ordinary Canadians, coming out in great numbers to protest the undemocratic behaviour of the Harper government. It's the size of the crowds, rather than the message, that makes the point. Anything that is ungentle might scare some people off.

I was pleased to be part of the rally, and I am proud to be a Canadian and to live in a country where people can congregate peacefully and safely.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

Well, your point (with Jenn below) is a good one, and I'm certainly not in favour of scaring "ordinary Canadians" off. It just seemed like all the jokes were at the expense of the serious issues, and a casual first-time participant might have walked away with the idea that it was all fun and games and nothing very important was at stake — the message that various Conbots are peddling around here.
http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

Yup – I liked the "feel" of the protest. This was actually my first in-person political protest and it seemed nicely balanced between an earnest, honest, amateurish atmosphere with good organization and just enough "Hey hey! Ho ho!" kinda chants to keep things interesting.

The crowd was NOT blue hair and facial piercings, it looked like my neighbours. I defy any attendee to dismiss these people as anything but ordinary Canadians. Made me feel really good about dragging my teenager down there to see democracy in actions.

Bridget

Oops – Flaherty.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Skinny_Dipper Skinny Dipper

I think it's "Jim Flatley."

http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

I thought she was giving him a nickname.

Jim "Oops" Flaherty.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Latest estimates for rally attendance:

Toronto 5000
Ottawa 3500
Vancouver 1000-2000
London 500
Waterloo 500
Halifax 500
Victoria 400-1000
Montreal 400
Winnipeg 300
Edmonton 250
Belleville 250
St. John's 200
Oshawa 200
Thunder Bay150
Calgary 100
Kelowna 100
Charlottetown 100
Maple Ridge50
Prince Rupert 25

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

I respect the fact that you're only reporting sourced stats, but FWIW I'd be amazed if the real total for Toronto was only 5000 at the height of the protest (c. 2pm). I say that because the numbers varied greatly — 5000 (the police estimate?) might have been quite accurate around 1pm or 3:30pm, but I do think it was higher when the march began (peaking just before).

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

I've seen several anecdotal accounts like yours, so I'm persuaded to adjust my T.O. tally to 7,000 (the high end of the original estimate range, as well as the original #CAPP estimate)

Lord Kitchener's Own

The rhetoric of the "Is Democracy Dead" pic is pretty over the top but wow, kudos on that "Parliament buildings on a coffin". It's rhetorically way too hyperbolic, but it looks cool and must have taken a bit of effort. In the pic, it looks as though they've even done something to give the buildings a 3D effect (it could just be the angle of the pic). Anyway, A for effort from me.
http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

[youtube -0Hbu4Z4pGI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Hbu4Z4pGI youtube]
BCer in Mtl

Saw a lot of Starbucks cups in those pictures. Obviously this event was attended by elitists.

(Does the CPC give cash rewards for coming up with new conbot comment board talking points? Where do I sign up?)

http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Wot choo talkin' about … Starbucks !!

http://accidentaldeliberations.blogspot.com/2010/…

h/t The Jurist

BCer in Mtl

Nice, but obviously the Toronto elitists would never carry a dubble dubble. They must hate the troops.

Patrick

"Saw a lot of Starbucks cups in those pictures. Obviously this event was attended by elitists. " – 'BCer'

Clearly you are as ignorant as your comment would indicate 'BCer', those coffee cups were from Second Cup as well were held by what looked like a eastern european couple and a middleaged turkish person.

I smell a rat in alot of these comment boards. Ever since "noprorogue.ca" had comments originating from Immigration Canada IP's, so says the admin of the website. Most of the comments against the rallies/anti-prorogue'rs are dare I say, more ignorant and hastily written than the usual internet troll filfth.

Lord Kitchener's Own

And this is why we all need to agree on an internet convention indicating sarcasm.

Of course, in this case, BCer's parenthetical request for a cash reward for creating a new "conbot comment board talking point" should have been a hint.

(Unless you were being sarcastic too Patrick)

http://intensedebate.com/people/SisyphusThis SisyphusThis

Can't be too careful though. I saw somebody in Antigonish who looked like they
were from Manitoba.
James Connors

In the sense that a metaphor is like a simile, but different, the necessity to label sarcasm would render irony dead.

BCer in Mtl

"a metaphor is like a simile"

Now that's a simile! Made me s-mile!

Russell Barth

we have never been this close to fascism, and I think it is too late. Harper's majority is almost an inevitability now with the left split four ways. after harper gets the majority, and declares himself leader for life, these types of protests will be illegal, and met with Iran-style brutality.
count on it.
and the scariest part is, Harper's supporters would DELIGHT in seeing Horsemen bashing heads of pro-democracy protestors. Conservatives: They just aren't right in the head….

common man

Right Russell, now this fascism you speak off and these Horsemen bashing heads that you see, is that every morning or just the day after some amping up down at the local Square ?

Take a tylenol and lie down. Even if you wished it, this is not Iran, it`s Canada, we have a democratically elected leader. Just cool it with the extremist talk. Most of us are quite happy with the CPC gov`t.
jarrid

This does appear to be the prototypical anti-proroguer protest attendee mindset.

Trust me Russell, speaking as Harper supporter myself, simply hearing you guys spout off brings me as much mirth as I need.

But thank you for reporting from the front lines just the same.
http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"and the scariest part is, Harper's supporters would DELIGHT in seeing Horsemen bashing heads of pro-democracy protestors. Conservatives: They just aren't right in the head…."

Do you mean like this? Conservatives believe in laws, libs and progressives are more flexible. Your right to protest is better protected by conservatives than it is by anyone else.

"Canadians now remember the APEC summit for its images of young protesters being blasted with pepper spray by RCMP officers, and signs urging democracy and free speech being torn down by Canadian police."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?…

http://intensedebate.com/people/jolyon jolyon

"and the scariest part is, Harper's supporters would DELIGHT in seeing Horsemen bashing heads of pro-democracy protestors. Conservatives: They just aren't right in the head…."

Do you mean like this? Conservatives believe in laws, libs and progressives are more flexible. Your right to protest is better protected by conservatives than it is by anyone else.

"Canadians now remember the APEC summit for its images of young protesters being blasted with pepper spray by RCMP officers, and signs urging democracy and free speech being torn down by Canadian police."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?…
http://intensedebate.com/people/tdotlib tdotlib

Nice write-up Jack. I agree that the proceedings did seem a little hijacked. My first thought was that I had stumbled in to a NDP side-protest and not the non-partisan one that I meant to attend. The tone did seem to indicate the "rookie-ness" of most of the attendees (myself included) in that there was almost a reluctance to sustain any chant. That may also be a symptom of the multi-party nature of the crowd. It seemed that no one wanted to offend anyone, but everybody understood that Harper was taking things too far.
jarrid

Yeah Russell, you were smart not to have gotten all worked up about the Chrétien prorogations: you probably would have been pepper sprayed.

Is that why you didn't protest Chrétien prorogations? Scared to have eaten some pepper spray?
LOL@Partisan Hacks

Are there any Conservatives protesting prorogation? Are there any Marxist-Separatist coalition supporters who support it? No, and no, meaning that the opposition to prorogation is 100% partisanship, it has zero to do with

"we have never been this close to fascism"

Heh, I'll take two hits of what you are on Russ. Do yourself a favour and read up on what Orwell thought of guys like you who misuse that word.

He has a minority government and thus cannot reasonably be considered a dictator, which is the actual term you were grasping for here. If the Marxist-Separatist coalition wants to defeat Harper they merely have to vote against the throne speech. They won't do that because they know they will get thrashed in the next election.

Oh, and it's anti-accountability morons on the left who are responsible for out of control "horsemen", not conservatives. We abhor, and punish, injustice, whereas you collude with, aid, and abet the evil doers in society and believe it is wrong to punish evil doers.

Right in the head indeed; seek help Russ.
http://twitter.com/NL_Expatriate @NL_Expatriate

Excellent brief RPM.
As for the rationalization that others have done the wrong before. Well news flash "TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT!" In fact by using that argument you are in fact highlighting why it is wrong to begin with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLycAWlnkgUyoutub… nLycAWlnkgU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLycAWlnkgU youtube]
http://www.overthehillhealthmatters.com Pat Moore

Our difficulty here in Canada has always been that we split the actual majority vote into subsections. ie. the left-wing and liberal vote, which prevails, is always divided among degrees of ideology, and the entire lot fails to gain power. Perhaps we would be better off with a two-party system, since we are obviously shooting ourselves in the foot with the present set-up.
http://www.overthehillhealthmatters.com Pat Moore

I just posted a comment, and it has disappeared. I'll try again. I think that Canada would be better off with a two-party system, since we keep giving the actual liberal/left wing majority vote away, by dividing it up amongst varying degrees of left wing/liberal ideology, and the entire crap shoot ends up falling to the conservatives, that no-one wants in power, because the majority can't act as a united front. A two-party system would fix this.
Rob H

It this is the best the opposition can do organizing “outrage”, Harper doesn’t have a thing to worry about. What a pathetic turnout.
http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

1) you actually did. you said "none of the Liberal apologists on this board have addressed the point that Spector makes, which refutes their own claim that there is something exceptional and thus more deserving of protest than in Harper's actions"… you were using Spector to establish an argument "that Liberal apologists" are wrongfully suggesting this instance of prorogation is more worthy of "protest". Spector made clear that this instance of prorogation was more objectionable, he is just arguing that does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water.

When Spector makes the negative comparison re the Libs vis a vis the CPC in the article you are referring to he is not comparing prorogation strategies, per se he is comparing handling of inquiries. this is neither a subtle nor unimportant detail.

2) your point is funny: "there is no official ranking" but "Hogg is recognized…as the foremost living expert". i wonder why we are "not going to get very far on this point"?

look, you are right that Hogg is not just some guy (though i think you are setting up a straw man). you are also right on the first point i noted above: there are no rankings… i think it is more helpful to think about it in terms of a pool of scholars that lead the discussion because 1) the relevant discussion crosses across a number of issues/specializations; and 2) there is no srs single way to measure the kind of prominence effectively. regardless, I see Hogg existing among a pool of his peers including Ned Franks, Peter Russell, Peter Aucoin, David E. Smith and Andrew Heard.
http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

1) while i didn't rule out the possibility he is tying them together in the end, it is does not change the bigger point, on which Spector is clear, which you were trying to refute: this is not just a routine prorogation

2) i am reluctant to keep this going because there is no end and it is not a big deal because we agree on more then we disagree, but, quickly: 1) i didn't say your statements were contradictory, i just though them to be funny juxtaposed; 2) all of those indicators are fine, the more difficult measurement though is actual influence and expertise… those indicators are proxies, but as you and i agree they are not the full story (ps want to endeavour to trace some of theM, I would be interested in the results?); 3) Andrew Heard has. in the globe…. don;t have the link handy sorry. Not positive on David Smith, though i think i did hear that he did in one of the provincial papers.
dan mckay

Stefan Premdas, from the Ontario Green Party is wearing fur? Is the Green Party not against wild fur trade? This is very poor taste and shows inconsistent policy within the Green Party. I am shocked to see this Green Party candidate wear real FUR! Shame on you Stefan Premdas and Shame on the Ontario Green Party for not putting a stop to this action!!

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