Comments on: Isn’t 32 a little old for an allowance?

By: Dreamfilm

Dreamfilm — Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:11:50 +0000

Are you an adult living with your parents? Are your adult children living with you? We'd love to hear your story. Send us an email to info@dreamfilm.ca

By: ROB-RAGE

ROB-RAGE — Sun, 16 May 2010 22:55:33 +0000

Nature takes care of criitters that refuse to become self reliant…they Die…! In the animal kingdom you learn the tricks to survival from the Adults…then your on your own….Real men and women don't leach off their parents …they become independent and strong….Wimps will end up were they deserve…in half way houses for Morons and slackers !

By: jane

jane — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 06:51:20 +0000

Jason, that's absolute bs. seriously, would you like a little cheese with your whine?

i worked at least 2 part-time jobs while attending university full-time. i paid my own way, never used student loans.
i couldn't afford a home computer or laptop, and used computer labs on campus.
i biked, walked, or took public transit to get around town.
i currently own an almost 20 yr old vehicle, it runs just fine. it doesn't look too bad either…
and with respect to your purchasing property – the phrase "unrealistic expectations" comes to mind…

take 2 minimum wage jobs. that's what i did. in fact, for a time, i had 3. and yes, a fast food joint was one of them. i'm not too proud to work.

you do not have to live at home. you choose to live at home.

grow up.

By: Ted S.

Ted S. — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:23:29 +0000

I don't have time to teach maths literacy just now, so suffice it to say that your current account deficit rankings ignore the size of the underlying economy, which makes those figures meaningless in this discussion. You were closer to the mark with public debt figures, as already discussed.

"Too lazy to find a good link", so everyone should just take your word for it? Okaaaay…

By: Sludge-fighter

Sludge-fighter — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 05:05:58 +0000

Ditto (but a tad late): "Right on John".
But in some European societies, according to at least couple of guys I knew 40 years ago, a girl WOULD bring a guy back to her room in her parents' apt or house.
However, perhaps it was (LOL) one of those primitive agrarian societies where they needed new sper… umm, "blood" to refresh the population….

Ol' sludgefighter – http://www.sludge.tk

By: Marc J

Marc J — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:42:00 +0000

Sorry for being unclear, I am functionally independent. My parents both live in Toronto, I'm currently residing in Ottawa, and paying for all of my expenses myself – not past commitment or supplement was afforded by my parents.

By: Marc J

Marc J — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 19:39:38 +0000

"Unless you are living at home, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Canadian student to pay their own way through university without racking up a considerable amount of debt (unless you are smart enough to get one of the few comprehensive scholarships available)."
—-
That statement alone is absurd. I'm a nineteen year old canadian student who's about to finish his second year (of four) and I'm barely skimming a thousand dollars in debt. My way out is quite simple: I worked in Fort McMurray both summers before school, and the only reason I'm crossing the line this year is because I decided to quit my part time job second semester to focus on my studies more. What's more is that next summer I will be eligible to work in the oil sands in Fort McMurray, where pay starts at 50$/h. Project three months of working twelve hour days (I believe it's the most I could work, if not just over 2 months and a half in a summer), and ask yourself how I could manage debt.

By: leslie

leslie — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:47:13 +0000

How about granting the allowance, but charging her rent? That should balance out things a bit.

By: Sam

Sam — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:55:44 +0000

Well. That is why the immigration process involves a medical exam. Canada doesn't deliberately bring sick people into the country. They get sick after getting here. I know it doesn't seem fair that a life long tax payer gets the same priority as a new comer, but it is also the purpose of the taxing system, to share wealth. And Canada believes in everyone having equal access to health care. It is not a perfect system but who is to decide who suffers and who gets treated faster and better? That kind of system is for oppressive societies.

Its kind of silly to say immigration show no net economic benefit to Canada. Without people coming in from outside, Canada just doesn't have enough population and enough wealth to continue as a developed nation. And certainly can't utilize the country's resources on an optimum level. More than half the work force in major cities are immigrants. Imagine the boost to the amount of taxes being gathered! Moreover, very few immigrants succeed in bringing old parents over. Its not that easy to sponsor people, Canada has a very limited quota for sponsored immigrants. It is much easier in the USA.

You could say all the immigrant tax payers are probably paying enough for health care for all the immigrants. After all, don't forget that unless you are a native north American, you are also an immigrant, you probably got here before civilized societies decided to treat everyone equally when they need help,

In my view, everyone in the world should have an equal chance to live in north America as a "Canadian" or "American" does, because they are also immigrants. If someone can work and contribute, they can come if there is space.

By: minaka

minaka — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:12:30 +0000

I'm sorry, but the families importing their senior citizens parents are not covering all their expenses. They are making Canadian taxpayers help "care properly" for their elderly parents who have made not one penny of contributions to the health care and pensions they consume. This is a factor in the long line ups for medical care for people who HAVE paid into the system all their lives. They are not getting what they paid for because many people are getting what they haven't paid for.

Say a couple brings over both sets of parents. Those two in their entire lifetimes will not pay through their taxes and sponsorship the amount that the four (plus themselves) consume. This is why immigration shows no net economic benefit to Canada. The expenses equal or exceed the income.

By: Argyle

Argyle — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:36:45 +0000

I have no information about this, but I'm curious as to why you think that this is a new phenomenon? Other than perhaps your own experience, are you absolutely certain that parents in the past did not take this type of hands on approach to their children's education?

By: Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:18:59 +0000

Something doesn't sound right. How did you get a $50,000 student loan without some form of collateral?
At 17 you were still considered a minor and no bank would look at you for a mortgage without a co signer, let alone a loan. In less than ten years you got a degree, paid off your $50,000 school loan AND bought a house? Did you work while going to school, and even then how could you afford rent, food and the necessities of life when most part time jobs pay minimum wage and rents for apartments and suites are usually above the $1000 per month.? Just what sort of courses did you take? Most yearly tuition fees & books are about $4500 yearly. At that rate you borrowed for ten years, so how did you manage to get a mortgage with a part time job even if you saved your part time earnings. You still had the rent and necessities of life. The reason why I am sceptical is that I had four kids, three of whom are now home owners and married after finishing college. The never borowed for a loan but worked to pay for it with summer jobs and they saved by living at home. You make it sound so easy, but are you still paying those loans? At least my kids don't have that problem.

By: Scaftisson

Scaftisson — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:25:48 +0000

What makes Danpat Ram assume that adult kids who don't live with Mommy and Daddy are the "Hi Mom, Bye Mom" crowd? I'm also a Canadian, but who says you can't be a responsible, self-reliant adult as well as someone whose good to their parents?

By: Gaunilon

Gaunilon — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:35:55 +0000

If people are willing to sacrifice independence to government for personal comfort, why would they object to doing the same with their parents?

Aristotle called it "the slave mentality".

By: RunningGag

RunningGag — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:33:19 +0000

You have no idea. These are the same parents that call up the professors to discuss their childrens' grades (and get upset when they are told about privacy laws). Its unbelievable.

By: Jesse A

Jesse A — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:17:05 +0000

So you could pay for tuition after working little over two weeks? And still have money saved over the summer?! Man! Those must have been the days! Many students during the school year in Canada and graduate with loads of debt as well. I think one of the important points is that A. tuition and the cost of going to university is considerably higher, even with inflation, than it was before. (and this excludes spring breaks). and B. the cost of housing is a lot more in the cities where one goes to university. (this is especially acute as where the cheap housing is often requires one to have a car in order to get to class, another expense).

By: Bhola Nath

Bhola Nath — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:08:30 +0000

Steyn DOES swallow all he writes – the income from it, that is.

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:07:09 +0000

What's the great tragedy if she is there at home at 40? At least her mother will have a companion.

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 10:05:51 +0000

On second thoughts, we CAN assume Steyn swallows all he writes – in the sense of the money it brings him.

By: Melissa

Melissa — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:54:32 +0000

Italians love to complain about how poor they are, but it is a weird cultural thing, not a reality, since living in debt is nearly unheard of, as opposed to how kids in the U.S.A. do it.

I think it has more to do with avoiding paying taxes than much else.

By: Melissa

Melissa — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:49:34 +0000

I live in Italy with my 32 year old boyfriend. Guess where he lived before we moved in together? Guess where he sleeps when I'm out of town?

Derek, I think that you are on to something. Along those lines, I once heard the idea that the mothers coddle and effectively infantilize their children (and husbands) as a way of asserting the power that they don't have in society outside the home.

Did you know it takes a minimum of 3 years to get divorced in Italy?

By: Meany

Meany — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 06:38:35 +0000

Indeed.

Every day, I have to suffer through a fellow coworker burn up the phone lines, call up university registrars, ask all sorts of questions, figure out the best place where her dear 22 year old daughter can get in, discuss what courses are what, etc.

Everytime I hear this, I feel sorry for both of them. Sorry for the poor misguided mother, who thinks she is actually helping by doing all the basic legwork that a 22 year old should know how to do. And sorry for the poor misguided 22 year old daughter, who, with a mother like that, will never grow up. Helicopter parents are still around at 25, sometimes 30, so why not 35? 40? Is it any less ridiculous? Once you pass 30, whatever, sky is the limit! She'll live at home till she's 40, of that I'm sure.

By: johnnyk

johnnyk — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:34:29 +0000

Bilge, Jason.
My late father-in-law was born in 1914. He got to graduate high school right in time for the Great Depression. The one you might have sen on the History Channel, yep the one with 40%+ unemployment and no EI or any other safety net.
He struggles through that one just in time for a real full-time job. He started work in Sept. 1939 and lucky guy, he got posted to an overseas job in Europe. Minor problem: the Wehrmacht were shooting real bullets not internet flames.
Hi got home late in 1945 to find the chickensh*ts who stayed home had taken the decent jobs and could now boss him around as an entry-level peon. He was 31 years old.
Grow up kid.

By: Flippy the Bear

Flippy the Bear — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:36:59 +0000

I actually disagree that it's much better in the country. Yes, rent may be cheap, houses may be affordable, but arable land and milk/egg quotas are outrageously priced, especially considering local wages.

By: Flippy the Bear

Flippy the Bear — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 00:19:24 +0000

Dammit, guys, how old are you? When will you stop ranting about how times were oh so tough and the men were braver and more industrious? If you're 70, you grew up in the freaking roaring 50es, when, yes, if you could hold a tool, you'll be hired, and because everyone was expanding, you could grow with the company, not within the company, in particular if there were no people with more experience.

Work ethic? Detroit cars is the best evidence of the work ethic, in particular – how much worse they got once the now-50-to-70 cohort got hired and how much better they got once they start getting fired.

By: Flippy the Bear

Flippy the Bear — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 23:58:23 +0000

That's because if it's the adult children and parents live together and the children take care of the adults, it's not called "children living with parents". It's called "grandparents moved in". Happens rather often.

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:26:13 +0000

In the end, though, one can't blame Steyn.

He is a journo. Has to do a piece a day. For that he needs a story line. Has to pick one and stick to it. Has plumped for the "Kids-these-days-are-no-good" and "The-poor-have-it-coming-to-them" viewpoint.

It pays the bills.

We don't need to assume even HE actually swallows all he writers.

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:21:53 +0000

It is always easy for the third-rate to mock those with less money.

As a Canadian, I know several guys between thirty and forty who live with their parents.

Far from being childish or irresponsible, they impress me by the sheer care, companionship and fun they bring to their parents' lives.

It's vastly better than the common custom of spending a couple of bored hours with parents at Christmas, the "Hi Mom, Bye Mom" crowd.
Whatmakes Steyn assume kids who like to be with their parents are unnatural?

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:30:54 +0000

It is always easy for third-rate minds to run down poorer people.

Kids staying longer with parents only seems crazy from an atomised social viewpoint. As a Canadian well acquanited with quite a few thirty to forty year olds still with their parents, I am impressed by the companionship and fun they bring to their parents. It is way better than seeing them perfunctorily for an hour at Christmas.

Steyn disliking his kids' comapny is not the world's problem.

By: Ramesh Ram

Ramesh Ram — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:27:08 +0000

It is always easy to run down people with less money.

In any case, kids staying longer with parents only seems crazy from an unthinking atomised Western perspective. As a Canadian well acquainted with several thirty to forty year olds who are still living with parents, I am impressed by the good company and fun they bring to the parents, rather than seeing them perfunctorily once a year at Christmas.

If Steyn dislikes his kids' company that is not the world's fault.

By: Anon

Anon — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:17:02 +0000

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. University isn't capitalized unless it is part of a proper name.

By: Casa

Casa — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:15:18 +0000

I am 28 and I think your laundry list of excuses is what is giving people our age a bad name. I like most people replying to you worked any job I could find since I was 16 and saved for my education. I paid my own way and got a degree that I know would result in a job instead of just one that I might like. I worked hard in university and got good grades, I used the university computers to search for jobs and write my resume and I took advantage of career counciling services to work on my interview skills. All of these things resulted in my getting a good job, which helped me pay off my student loans. I own my own condo in downtown Toronto now (it may not be large but I understand that at my age I can't afford everything my parents had). The Toronto real estate market isn't that much easier to get into than Vancouver. I rode the subway until recently because I couldn't afford a car. So save the woe is me speech. People your age have made it work, it just takes the desire to do so and the understanding that might have to give up some of the things your parents provide like a large house and a car.

By: Nance

Nance — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:11:14 +0000

Uh, ya you do actually. My neighbours are a good example. The parents "gave" the son their house so he and his wife and three kids could live in it. If you observe Muslim families, intergenerational families live in cramped quarters, so its not a new phenomenon to them either.

By: Stan

Stan — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:38:26 +0000

"Les" jobs…you're in University? Maybe if you were working part time and paying your own way, you would think it important enough to learn English for starters.

By: Stan

Stan — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 18:29:41 +0000

I guess that is why we expect more and more from government. "Why should we be expected to all of a sudden, when Mama & Papa die, to look after ourselves," they say. Not only as parents, but government as well, we might well learn from some bird species, who at the appropriate time, nudge their offspring out of the nest, so they learn to fly.

By: Carlassare

Carlassare — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:03:57 +0000

Family values and family responsibity vs government social entitlements

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:33:51 +0000

Not true. I have a philosophy degree as well as certificates in Business & Project Mgmt. I've working in banking for the last 10 years. I'm tired of hearing the philosophy majors constantly getting "dumped on" for their choice in study.

By: sprite1949

sprite1949 — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:25:15 +0000

News flash…stop making comparisons that put down the younger generation of today's society. It is fruitless to pass judgement. They, in truth, are not solely responsible for the state of the situation today. Because the complexity of the changes since the sixties is so extreme, Mark Steyn's article can easily be invalidated. No matter what generation we speak about there is good and bad to be found within each cohort. I am a senior with four successful children who are in their thirties. However, I am not so naive to expect that all others not in such circumstances have done something wrong. The world has so changed that to try to explain it in an article such as this is really quite ridiculous.

By: Flippy the Bear

Flippy the Bear — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 13:41:44 +0000

Marushka, what you say (despite what your Eastern European parents tell you) is BS.

English majors and Philosophy majors work in sales. They can make a lot more than you do.

Business majors, with the right connections, can make a great corporate career (but the key word: with the right connections to start up).

Science majors are stuck in RnD.

By: Thomas_L......

Thomas_L...... — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 07:18:32 +0000

Well, who's fault is it? NDP parents? I tell you what. My kids aren't still living at home. They had paper routes as soon as the bag didn't drag on the ground. They got educations that they mostly paid for themselves and they are doing fine. Stop feeding them cheese!

By: Jack Mitchell

Jack Mitchell — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:56:47 +0000

I'm too lazy to find a good link, but last I heard the Muslim birthrate in France was 4.0 and falling, while the overall birthrate was 1.9 and rising. The Muslim population of France is only about 6%, however, so the two birthrates are converging. There are a lot of "Muslims" in France who are culturally quite French, by the way, i.e. quite secular. Nice of you to be kind to Fred. I am not too kind to point out the current account deficit problem; scroll down, waaaaay down, to 181 if you're looking for the home of the brave. Germany is #2, after China.

By: Al Fields

Al Fields — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 06:55:57 +0000

Man, you really didn't get, did you. What Steyn is referring to is the fact that people in "developed" societies are not stepping up to their obligations and assuming adulthood with all the burdens and responsibilities this entails. And this is not only a problem for themselves but also for society, as no society is really capable of sustaining for long such lazy living and the fact that people fail to reproduce in numbers enough to sustain society itself. So go on on man, leave your mama's lap and find some fruitful hard work, get married and have some kids. You'll do yourself and your country a lot of good. And if you don't find a job, why don't you think of actually creating some…

By: Danpat Ram

Danpat Ram — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:32:40 +0000

I take it Steyn is running down the royal Family again?

By: Ted S.

Ted S. — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:47:30 +0000

No one was disputing how high France's fertility rate is (although "highest fertility rate in the EU" isn't saying much), the question was only whether it was really "95% indigenous". Neither Fred nor you provided any source, so I assume you don't have one. And even if you do, what exactly does "indigenous" mean? There are plenty of technically indigenous births to parents who are culturally un-French.

The McKinsey figures are for all debt, public and private. The OECD figures you quoted are only for public (i.e., government) debt. I was being kind to Fred and using the all-debt figures because they undercut his argument less than public-only figures do. But have it your way, Italy and Germany are in far worse shape than the US, and that still doesn't include the real liability: pensions.

Guess you're new at this. Don't worry, you'll get better.

By: May

May — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:27:51 +0000

The main reason why people in Italy and the rest of Europe live @ home longer is to save money, so that when they marry or finaly have enough will be able to buy and actually own their own home. Also, while living @ home after you start working one helps the family financialy. The 32 year Italian woman is more of the exception than the rule. Also, in Europe just because you live @ home does not mean you are treated like a child, on the contrary there is more pressure on you to do well in school, work, in all aspects of you ;ife realy, because you become an extension of your family…what you do reflects on them as well.