Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Khadr verdict

by Aaron Wherry on Friday, January 29, 2010 10:02am - 197 Comments

The Supreme Court has ruled that Omar Khadr’s rights have been violated, but that the Court will not, at this time, order the federal government to request his repatriation. The full ruling is here.

K is entitled to a remedy under s. 24(1) of the Charter.  The remedy sought by K — an order that Canada request his repatriation — is sufficiently connected to the Charter breach that occurred in 2003 and 2004 because of the continuing effect of this breach into the present and its possible effect on K’s ultimate trial.  While the government must have flexibility in deciding how its duties under the royal prerogative over foreign relations are discharged, the executive is not exempt from constitutional scrutiny.  Courts have the jurisdiction and the duty to determine whether a prerogative power asserted by the Crown exists; if so, whether its exercise infringes the Charter or other constitutional norms; and, where necessary, to give specific direction to the executive branch of the government.  Here, the trial judge misdirected himself in ordering the government to request K’s repatriation, in view of the constitutional responsibility of the executive to make decisions on matters of foreign affairs and the inconclusive state of the record.  The appropriate remedy in this case is to declare that K’s Charter rights were violated, leaving it to the government to decide how best to respond in light of current information, its responsibility over foreign affairs, and the Charter.

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  • Yachtscrew

    What unbelieveable slapdash mob psychology is demonstrated here. There are people in this "conversation" who appear to believe that emotion should replace logic. Emotion stirred up, as in most crowd vigilanty situations, for political or religious reasons (ie: we are right because we are RIGHT, and you are wrong if you disagree with us)

    • Don

      Strange, you sneer at emotion as the undercurrent of sentiment in this matter……..

      Seems to me that our soldiers overseas, the benefit of whose service and mortal sacrafice you so casually avail yourself of, are there for emotional reasons….its called pride in your nation and a willingness to protect all that you hold dear…for right or wrong…..Its not logic that sends a surge of warmth up your spine and brings a smile to your face when you stand on a parade ground on Remembrance Day. Its not logic that renders you inconsolable as you remember cradling a comrade as his life's blood drained away. Its not logic that makes you weep as you tell a widow and her children how brave their father and husband was and how he spoke of them in his dying moments….

      Logic plays no part in any of this because from where I'm standing and as a former Canadian soldier……logically I and they wouldn't want to be shot and killed…………and logically I do not want a man living in my country who at the drop of a hat (with passion not logic) wraps himself in explosives and sets himself alight in a crowded marketplace on Danforth Avenue……

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      Emotion nearly always does replace logic. Which is a good reason to have the laws we do, so that an objective, unemotional body (like a court) can look at the case and use the logic subsumed by the emotions in others. Which is a good reason to be upset at the treatment of Khadr, because if one can fall through the logic crack, how safe are we all? The other thing about emotion is you may not believe it should replace logic, but you can't find the logic through the emotion to see that's what you're doing!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

    Teneckye just called Khadr "a little terrorist" on CTVnews channel.

    said this is a step toward him spending the rest of his life in an american jail.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

      Shorter Teneckye: Mob rule for everyone!

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

        i think it is worse than that Thwim.

        Shorter Teneckye: the law matters when/how we say!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      That would be an incredibly dumb move by Teneckye. Anyone know of a link to an online clip of that?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains
        • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

          Tom Clark asked what Teneckye thinks the government view was, and he failed completely to state flat out, as the FORMER spokescritter, that he can only provide his own personal opinion, etc. Of course, Clark failed to make that clear, either (except for the quick little "former" in the intro).

          But the sins of the father (Chretien springing papa Khadr) is a dumb argument to make on the merits of the son's case. Probably a frank explanation of the government's stance, but still a dumb argument to make on TV. And I doubt anyone CURRENTLY in the PMO or the DFAIT would make it.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

            reminds me of how Brodie made clear the GST was a stupid policy but good politics in their estimation at the time of the decision (though maybe less so now!).

            but, yeah, the whole interview was unbelievably dumb, esp with Teneckye barking at the dude at the end after saying incredibly dumb things.

          • Don

            "Sins of the father"…….incredibly dumb?………this family has a history……plain and simple……and while this may be somewhat pedestrian…will you agree to surrender your life and the life of every member of your family if Omar Khadr kills one, just one, person if he were to be released tomorrow…….no, I didn't think so…..but if you are loathe to surrender your own life and the lives of your loved ones then perhaps err on the side of caution and don't play fast and loose with the lives of others..

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

            Don, I would be prepared to accept that you might be a Libtroll trying to absurdly caricature the anti-Khadr crowd. Which means I probably should not respond. But I have a slight fear you might be serious. So:

            ABSOLUTELY the father's conduct is irrelevant in judging the son's charges. But there may be a contribution in his sentencing, if found guilty.

            Once you have decided that the enemy deserves a trial, that's what you've got to face. Unlawful enemy combatant with no Geneva protections would have worked much nicer, but Bush said Geneva would apply. So we're stuck with what we have.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

            Where are you, Don? Shall we lock you up, lest you go and kill someone? I wouldn't want to surrender my life and the life of every family member if I passed up that opportunity to save one, just one person from your continued freedom to kill & maim the innocent. Hey, just erring on the side of caution here.

          • Jan

            If the government has a smart argument I haven't heard it.

  • Ken

    So who cares a rats ass.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

      i believe the saying is: who gives a rat's ass?

  • kcm

    That's obvious…fortunately you've only got one vote.

  • saveourrights

    Human rights in Canada should be for all, especially for those that we do not like.
    Mr Kadr has yet to be convicted of any crime except that of public opinion. The media have accepted all the statements from the US military of his guilt in the attack. Over time it has been revealed that another person was present (so he was not the only possible culprit), Mr kadr has been tortured, evidence suppressed, lawyers and judges fired from his case (by the state) and now the likelihood of a conviction downgraded. This has all happened to a child soldier. We can now admit that the "evidence" was actually propaganda for the state and not evidence at all.
    It is extremely rare that a crime can be morally defended, this is why they are crimes and the guilty punished. However it is not a crime until a conviction has been obtained in a recognized court (and not Guantanamo Bay"s kangaroo court). Until then all of your rights still apply. Even after a conviction certain rights apply to prisoners. Mr Kadr's case is important because his rights have been denied and this denial of rights has been aided and abetted by our own government!
    Does this now mean if you are charged with a serious crime (in the United States or elsewhere) that you will be abandoned by your government, and our spies will attempt to coerce a confession from you after or while you are being tortured?
    Unfortunately the limits to our collective rights are demonstrated by how our country treats our most vulnerable citizens.
    Somehow this government thinks that just because something is not explicitly spelled out in law, that they have no moral responsibility. To hold elected office used to be called public service for a reason.
    This government is a disservice to all Canadians. It has taken generations of hard work to have the rights we have. We have created a country that is looked up-to around the world. This is too important to sacrifice for crass political gain.

  • kcm

    The law is only there for the just ,right? Naturally you get to decide who that is.

  • Sparky

    This has nothing to do with supremacy of the SCC over the "executive branch" as MDH bemoans. It has to do with the Charter to which Harper is as bound as you or me. Besides, while Harper may resemble Cheney, it's the Americans who have an "executive branch", not Canada. That gaffe betrays a profound misunderstanding of our parliamentary system and our laws.

    • Mike T.

      it does indeed have to do with the Charter's power to bind officials in certain capacities, as you say. But there is a Canadian version of the executive, the cabinet, although it is usually made up of people who are also in the legislative branch.

  • Don

    There is little difference between the parade of liberal left wing sniviling hand wringing apologists who spew their sympathy on Omar Khadr and grovel and fawn at the feet of this homocidal terrorist (so evident in this thread) and those who are responsible for allowing radical muslims (terrorists and "out spoken" muslim immigrants and "new" citizens) to ravage and culturally rape Britain and most of Europe. The attitudes of the politically correct bureaucrats, politicians and the judiciary in this country are a mirror image of their counterparts in Europe. The difference is we have seen the effects of their lunacy and are loathe to allow that to any degree to happen in this country. With rights come responsibilities plain and simple. We are now dealing with a new breed of immigrant who arrives on our shores with hand extended and an overwhelming sense of entitlement and expectation based on nothing more than the ability to fog a mirror. Gone are the immigrants who came to this country to escape hardship and conflict…now we are host to those who drag their petty conflicts and wars along with them.

    Citizenship must be earned……and for engaging in terrorist activities one should be stripped of the same.

    • TrueGrit

      "Gone are the immigrants who came to this country to escape hardship and conflict…now we are host to those who drag their petty conflicts and wars along with them." I suggest you take a crash course on Canadian immigration history, before another obtuse statement like this. Old country conflicts are always localised in the new country to some extent. The difference here is that technology and transportation have made it easier to maintain an intimate contact with the old country' and old ideas. Thus making it harder to make a clean break and assimilate fully into the value system of the new country. This is made even harder when the new immigrants are of a totally different religion and from places lacking liberal democracy and rule of law as staples of society.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      I don't know how/why it is so easy to obtain Canadian citizenship for those not born here, and I am perfectly willing to see if we can't tighten up those rules. But that is irrelevant since Omar Khadr was born here. In addition, stripping someone of citizenship once they have it is exactly the same as having two classes of citizens–how can you strip citizenship of Canadians who "earned" it by being born in Canada? A citizen is a citizen is a citizen.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/balabu balabu

        Anybody that gets involved in fighting along the enemies of Canada should be stripped of citizenship no matter if he has been born here or not. Actually he should be tried as a traitor. Citizenship is not all about rights there are also obligations of loyalty to Canada which the bleeding hearts liberals/lefties ignore.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

          There you go — a trial!

          I'm fully in agreement with traitor charges, as long as there is due process and all that. And sure, I'd even be willing to go with banishment if the person is convicted. But then you're talking about an agreement with another sovereign state, so I'll keep other punishment options open as well.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/balabu balabu

            He is accused of committing a grave crime of murdering a US soldier. He is in custody of the US which has legal apparatus as good as Canada. If the trial is delayed because of bickering between lawyers it is a US problem. Obviously he as any accused will lie about his involvement and claim that he is mistreated that is the standard song and only fools believe it.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

    Thanks.

    Phew. The FORMER communications critter for the PMO… will watch past the first minute…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

    yeah he stepped down a number of months ago. still incredibly dumb tho.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      Thank goodness, because he seems to think it is perfectly acceptable to use the laws of Al-Quaida, instead of the laws of Canada, the United States, international law, etc.

      Thanks for the link.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/sdh87 sdh87

    You just know how this is going to end up. Omar will be returned, the Khadr family of miscreants and Canadian bashing Al Queda lovers will sue for damages and be the happy recipients of a $10 million cheque from the Government (taxpayers) of Canada. Mama Khadr will then be able to bundle her terroist kids and take them to sunnier climes while bashing this country of "homosexuals and libertines"

    Now that's Canadian Justice!!

    • kcm

      If we, or the Americans had gotten this guy some help or even a timely fair trial, that wouldn't be a realistic scenario…as it is you could be right.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/balabu balabu

    Yes he was born in Canada but there is not even an ounce of Canadian values in him. He is no different from the 18 would be terrorists most of them born here that were conspiring spread death and mayhem in Canada. His buddies are blowing up Canadian Soldiers that are trying to free Afghani children and women from the terror of ideology that he espouses. We have enough jihadi terrorists that sneaked into our country and can not be deported because the liberal courts rule that they may be mistreated in their country of origin. Canada became a haven for terrorists and we don’t need to import another one whether he was born here or not. He is not a child and as 15 year old was not a child when he participated in war along the Alqueda. They train 12-year-old children to become savage executioners cutting off of head of their captives with a dull knife. By age of 15 there are master executioners. He will receive a fair trial in the US. Just remember the young Muslim guy that was trigger man in the Washington beltway murders was spared execution because of his youth
    Harper does the right thing not asking for his return and I believe he has the support of majority of true Canadians in doing so.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      The true Canadians that don't believe in innocent until proved guilty, a speedy trial, human rights, and of course Charter rights, you mean.

      I am hopeful that there aren't that many of those.

      • kcm

        "Master executioners…dull knives…" You spend way to much time on sick websites buddy.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/balabu balabu

        True Canadians are those that are supporting our soldiers and not the enemies. As to the famous Trudeau boondoggle the Charter of Rights which amounts to the right of criminals and their lawyers to victimize law abiding citizens of this country. Canada was just fine before that and is going down the drain ever since. The interpretation of the charter of being over righteous results in a situation that is as bad as being unjust.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/balabu balabu

        True Canadians are those that are supporting our soldiers and not the enemies. As to the famous Trudeau boondoggle the Charter of Rights which amounts to the right of criminals and their lawyers to victimize law abiding citizens of this country. Canada was just fine before that and is going down the drain ever since. The interpretation of the charter of being over righteous results in a situation that is as bad as being unjust.

      • drew

        I couldn't agree more Jenn. You and I must both have been dazzled by the speedy and smoothly conducted Air India trial. The Americans should take a lesson eh?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

          One outrage does not excuse another. And we know how abysmal that turned out, so why do that again?

  • gar

    Parliament makes the laws the Supreme Court interprets them . it is time parliament made laws in Layman's language so we all could interpret them just like the new insurance policies

  • mpdman

    You guys know what's gonna happen. Mr. Khadr will be welcomed at the airport by Jack Layton and Michael Iggyot. He will be presented with a huge cheque, courtesy of you and me – I'd say somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6 million clams.

    Then we'll close down the Highway of Heroes, and drive him right to Ottawa to pick up his Order of Canada.

    What a farce. I’d like to ask each of you who is so concerned about Omar Khadr this question: Can you name the name of one Canadian who gave his life in Afghanistan? (start Googleing…..).

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

      so i take it from your disdain you are ok with selective violations of charters rights?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

      Can you name the name of one Canadian who gave his life in Afghanistan in order to oppress Charter rights, deomocracy, due process and the like?

      Oppress: b : to crush or burden by abuse of power or authority
      Merriam-Webster

      Just in case you needed the help.

      • mpdman

        Hey cool. When I was a student, I always started my essays with dictionary definitions too. What are you, 13?

        BTW, there's a medic who had some rights violated too – the right to breathe, "just in case you need the help"….

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

      Can you name the name of one Canadian who gave his life in Afghanistan?

      Of course: Cpt. Nichola Goddard, the first female member of the CF to die in combat, in the Battle of Panjwai. You know, the big long battle the PPCLI fought with nary a peep from the Harper government that it was going on; when the CDS had to scream to get the Harper Government to allow the media to cover the return home of soldiers who had fallen for their country. How dare you suggest that only anti-Khadr, pro-Harper people are pro-military?

      • mpdman

        Unbelievable. Listen, if you’ve got enough energy to be upset about street names, I’m not going to waste typing time on you.
        Nice googleing though…

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jack_Mitchell Jack Mitchell

          Remarkable that someone who pretends to be pro-military thinks no Canadian has heard of Nichola Goddard; confirms my theory that the jingoes out there actually encourage anti-military sentiment so as to give themselves something to denounce. The thoroughly Americanised militarists in this country are the worst friend the CF never had.

          • mpdman

            Jackie Boy. You're much more interesting when you're talking about streets and traffic.

    • gar

      This guy apparently committed a crime in Afghanistan against American soldiers.Where does our Charter have any jurisdiction concerning two foreign countries.The americans should tell our supreme court to butt out.If any remember the Ing case the mass murderer who was hiding in Calgary an American citizen.We argued with the American for seven years and millions of tax dollars because he faced the death penalty. He was an American millions of our tax dollars spent on lawyers.The americans have their own justice we should butt out

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

        Well if you're not even goibg to read the post you are commenting on, why would any of us take the time to consider your position?

        Uninformed isn't a principled position.

        • TrueGrit

          "Uninformed isn't a principled position." It is if you are a CPC voter.

  • Not a Pinko

    Ahh, the Khadr's….. Proof that Canadian Citizenship is given away far too easily.

    • jason

      He was BORN here, got his citizenship same way you likely did.

      Are all you poeple completely uneducated,, incapable of reading,, lacking in the ability to do anything but spew garbage rants against others.

  • Diana1976

    The Supreme Court has given the Minority Harper Government a chance to do the right thing, as also decided by our Parliament.

    If it doesn't, right minded Canadians can show that Government what they think of it at the next election.

    Abusing or torturing a kid caught up on the wrong side of a war as a result of his family's and other adult's actions, and charging him with war crimes, is contrary to our law, international law, fundamental principles of justice, as the Court said, human decency and common sense.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

    "“courts are empowered to make orders ensuring that the government's foreign affairs prerogative is exercised in accordance with the constitution.”

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