Deux Maudits Anglais

Martin Patriquin and Philippe Gohier dissect the latest out of Quebec. Follow Philippe on Twitter: @pgohier

Categories: Deux Maudits Anglais

Note to the commenters

by Philippe Gohier on Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:31pm - 266 Comments

First off, calm down. Don’t read that as “please calm down”—we’re not asking anymore.

For some reason I’ll generously assume to be a combination of cabin fever and excitement at the onset of spring, things have gotten way too heated and way too personal on the comment boards. It has to stop. You’re driving us nuts.

I understand us web editors may be partly to blame for the confusion over what’s allowed and what isn’t. The truth is there are no hard and fast rules (except, of course, those forbidding content that might get us sued). Sure, we expect civility and good humour and a modicum of intelligence from all of you, but even those rules can be bent a little here and there.

What it comes down to is this: if we think a comment is having a destructive influence on a discussion, we’ll delete it. That’s it, that’s all. This is, of course, an entirely arbitrary rule, and some individual bloggers are bound to have different tolerance thresholds than others. Don’t hold your breath expecting that to change. There’s a reason the overwhelming majority of the discussions here are smart and informative, and we think our (mostly) hands-off approach has a lot to do with it. For the most part, giving everyone the benefit of the doubt has worked well so far and we’re hoping this gentle kick in the behind will set everything straight again. (But don’t kid yourselves: there’s a Plan B if it doesn’t.)

Our other message goes out to those who’ve taken to baiting us into being more aggressive than we’d like to be by overusing the “Report” button every time their feelings get hurt. You know who you are and so do we. Quit it. It’s annoying and we’re not going to tolerate it much longer.

In short, think of the boards as an open-house party—everyone’s welcome and encouraged to mingle, but no one has a right to be there. We will always reserve the right to kick people out of our house when they get too bothersome. You’d do the same at your place.

Sound good?

I’ll be hanging around in the comments if you’ve got any questions.

Tags: Comments

More by Philippe Gohier

Patchouli

Also re: anonymity. I'm a consultant in a capital city, and yes, I have government clients. I do the best work possible for them and am always discreet. I would not be able to participate here if I used my real name because it would affect my business and a girl's gotta make a living. I would not want to come to the party if I could not throw in my two cents worth now and then.

It would be tantamount to a banishing — please don't make me go!

Richard Osborne

I am sorry you feel that way. I too am a consultant, with government clients, in a capital city. I post here (albeit only occasionally) under my real name, and I do not feel threatened in any way by the possibility that this will affect my livelihood.

While I am critical of certain politicians, and may call for their removal at the earliest voting opportunity, I am also aware that they are equally as sincere about their views on matters of public policy, wrong as they may be (;-), and that they have chosen to expose themselves to criticism from voters like me for which they should be applauded. I doubt that they are as vindictive as you may fear.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Douglass Douglass

Word.
DianeG

I have appreciated being able to comment instantaneously when I choose to do so. It would be a shame if long delays and vetting of each post had to be instituted, but I understand why it might become necessary. However, I hope that civility will prevail.
http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

Something I don't think anyone has come right out and said:

I come hear to learn.

The variety of opinions is fantastic. I have read many posts I may not fundamentally agree with, but I respect the writer (and their argument), and feel alive with the certainty there is room for all of us.
It is fascinating.
It is educational.
It is inspirational.
And it sure feels a helluva lot better than just drinking from the MSM punchbowl and limping into old age playing 3 handed crib with my close friends Cynicism and Bitterness

This forum stands head and shoulders above Parliament because we can be civil, and we can agree to disagree.
Now why would we want to fug that up?
hollinm

I took exception to one of the boards yesterday used by two or three posters using it for a travel log to Elk Island provinicial park. I asked them several times to stick to the topic.
There are several regular posters who ridicule the intelligence of posters or insult them because they don't agree with their comments. There is no need for that.
whereisian

Please don't rachet down the snark. It's why I come here. I don't care what political persuasion you are, I appreciate wit. If you can't debate with good humour, there are other websites that cater to people looking for outrage.
http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

LKO, I think you're spot on here about the value of the online community that seems to have developed here.

Dear Macleans, you have on your hands a golden egg – there's a lot of potential here for unique and thoughtful discussion, that is currently unique to this particular site.
richard

"…if we think a comment is having a destructive influence on a discussion, we’ll delete."

Unless said comment comes from Ann Coulter, in which case her Ezra-n-Colby Post-Posties fan club will print it as fact.
like-minded citizen?

You are a gracious and wise man (I suspect)
http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

hear hear LKO. all excellents points. and I esp concur that a very big part of the value here is the natural evolution.
http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

Man – reading all of this feels like I've just been sat down by my parents, and told that daddy is moving out to live elsewhere.
The sentiment could be false – it is based on a recent episode of Mad Men, as my folks are still together.

But damn! JM is gonzo. And now, it seems that PW will be either shutting down comments, or simply will not hang out.
This really sucks! Did it really have to come to this?

This place has been an awesome venue for discourse, whether I agree with people or not.

For those of you who fought these great battles – now that this is the outcome – was it really worth it?
Does it really make a difference whether JM or anyone else was right or wrong?

Stop wasting so much energy trying to win each battle, otherwise your preoccupation with the war will make you miss the beauty of the world that surrounds you.

common man

And Biff is gone too !

http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

At another thread, I actually found it comical that jarrid was lamenting the loss of Jack Mitchell, Paul Wells, and biff.
I couldn't help but crack up – one name is not like the others! It also made me think of Back to the Future.
It would have been even funnier if the alias was "sexprincess37xx"….

http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

Lol, that was funny! (Where did biff go?)

http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

I have no idea. I must have missed the thread where this happened.
Can anyone she some light on why Biff decided to "make like a tree, and bark"? ;)
http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

I think it was partly a joke, he said he was departing for not particular reason, I thought he was poking fun at JM, which I'm pretty sure he was.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/03/24/the-crtc-got-i…

FVerhoeven

I am an adult

I am fifty one years old, female,5'6", weighing exactly 142 lbs

Sometimes I laugh and sometimes I cry

I post comments under my real name

I do not use any other name on this site

When time and interest allows for it, I like to post on Macleans site because I think it is one of the more serious Canadian commenting sites available. I hope the blogging and commenting here will continue.

I think our Canadian democracy sucks and I want to change that.

"Yes, I can

(…….with a little help from our friends)
FVerhoeven

Philippe Gohier

If you would ask me to take off my shoes when visiting your house, I would most certainly do so, even though the country I originate from doesn't understand that particular Canadian custom.

You see, Canadians know a lot about tulips and stuff like that. But are you sure they want to know more about Dutch feet once they step out of wooden shoes?
Norman

Who the hell reads Macleans?

http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

I do faithfully….

http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

"For some reason I’ll generously assume to be a combination of cabin fever and excitement at the onset of spring, things have gotten way too heated and way too personal on the comment boards."

I'm not sure why everyone is making such a big deal about this. When someone insults you, just ignore them. I know that's what I do. I frankly don't see the point in giving the time of day to frustrated losers who can't handle a differing viewpoint.

This is politics. Things are bound to get personal for some people. It doesn't mean that you have to give their attacks any legitimacy by acknowledging them and worse, engaging in a tit for that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Gaunilon Gaunilon

"It doesn't mean that you have to give their attacks any legitimacy by acknowledging them and worse, engaging in a tit for that."

…er….engaging in a what? Exsqueeze me? [slaps self]

http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

Imagine how many politicians would be gone if they took everything so personally, I mean we can be ruthless to them.

Sigh

There have been a number of interesting arguments here both in favour of and against commenter anonymity. I have, obviously, chosen to keep my identity private, but I respect the choice of others either to use their real names or not. However, in this forum, as in others, anonymity can lead to bad behaviour.

So, how about this: as a rule of thumb, when writing a comment, let's each pretend that we are face-to-face with the people we are addressing, that we know who they really are and they know who we realy are. And let each of us conduct ourselves accordingly.

I know, I know…"cock-eyed optimist."

http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

Hey, but that optimism (sp) is what keeps us going, always hoping for the best…..

http://eugeneforseyliberal.blogspot.com EugeneForseyLiberal

I just went back and found Mitchell's comments. Although I am only an occasional outside commenter, I am sad he has retired from the field. There was more wit and wisdom in one of his comments than in 1000 of others. Pity. But probably for the best. Excessive commenting is a waste of time, and he's too smart for it. He's got a blog, articles to write, classes to teach, epic poems to write, etc.. But I'd like to think he'll still read the boards sometimes – we all need to believe at least one sentient being is reading us, to make it worthwhile. Arrivaderci Mitchell, ciao bello – “Se segui tua stella, non fallirai a glorioso porto.”
http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

"his claim that anonymity is the central problem. Although this seems plausible, my experience on this blog has been that the worst and most persistent trolls have been people posting under their own names (though commonly resorting to sockpuppetry to evade blocks, disrupt discussion and so on). And a couple have been academics."

http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2009/03…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Extremely well said.
vagabundo

Martin Mesquin Patriquin toi et ton malin petit copin que vous trouviez étrange que monsieur Parizau ne soit pas anti Juif démontre que boycotter l'hôpital Juif serait probablement ce que vous et bon nombre de vos lecteurs auraient fait dans les même circonstances. Monsieur Parizau est un homme d'honneur qui aurait sans doute accumulé plus de richesse tout en ayant une petite vie tranquille s'il aurait comme vous gardé son nez bien au chaud dans l'arrière-train de ses maitres. Que ce référendum ait été gagné par l'argent et le vote ethnique c'est évident, l'erreur de Monsieur Parizeau c'est de l'avoir pensé tout haut.
Bill Simpson

Here's a thought "Style". How about you use your own name. Paul gives and takes snark in equal measure, but at least we know who he is.

Who are you?
http://intensedebate.com/people/avr avr

How is that relevant? Style's pseudonymity has precisely zero impact on Wells' self-control, and he makes a valid point: if the management doesn't want trolling in the comments, then the magazine's actual employees could rightly be held to a higher standard of behaviour than is presently the case, for the sake of setting an example.
Bill Simpson

Perhaps people would be less strident and personally offensive if they were not anonymous. I am at a loss to think of what opinion someone could voice here that would lead to personal, employment or academic retribution. Unless, of course, you are doing this from work on company equipment?
Lord Kitchener's Own

I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. people have been fired from their jobs for having the wrong political party's bumper sticker on their car in the company lot. Plenty of people I know of have had to have restraining orders issued after people they've parried with online have discovered who they are and begun coming at them in real life.

You may be at a loss to think of what opinion someone could voice here that would lead to personal, employment or academic retribution, but isn't the point that the free exchange of information on the net is that much more free when people don't need to worry about how what opinions they voice might get them in trouble in the real world? The fact that it's both rare and unconscionable for someone to be fired or otherwise personally harmed for expressing a controversial opinion in public doesn't mean it doesn't happen, nor, more importantly, that people don't have a right to be concerned that it might, and to take preemptive action against the possibility.

Now, TRULY anonymous commenting, where the commenter is identified simply as "anon" is annoying. However, if you're going to ban pseudonyms, you're going to be left only with two kinds of commenter. People too crazy to care about what other people think of them (or do to them as a result), and people too pedestrian to express any meaningful opinion whatsoever. People can track my comments, tell when I'm being hypocritical or contradicting myself (never!, lol) get some sense of who I am, and where I'm coming from, but not super easily email every political opinion I have, however controversial, to my boss. I'm not totally paranoid mind you, and if one went over all of my comments one could probably even figure out who I am, but there'd be at least a minimum level of investment involved. I'd also have little objection to providing "real world" information to Macleans for their own purposes, as long as there were appropriate safeguards in place to protect my privacy (I'm not worried about seeing Wells outside of my apartment at 3 in the morning smoking a cigarette, but some of you folks are pretty sketchy).
wsam

I suggest public branding!!! WIth hot irons.