John Geddes

John Geddes

John Geddes writes on politics and policy, with occasional reporting and comment on arts and culture.

Harper and Ignatieff on Guergis: variations on a set-piece scandal

by John Geddes on Friday, April 9, 2010 2:58pm - 154 Comments

Faced with scandal in their circles, political leaders can usually be counted on to adopt an air of wounded self-righteousness. For an extreme example, think Brian Mulroney. He never missed a chance to act the part of a man so honourable that he can scarcely believe it when perfidy is revealed around him.

I fully expected Stephen Harper to try on his own version of that familiar guise today when he had to announce, in the foyer of the House of Commons this afternoon, that Helena Guergis has exited her job as minister of state for the status of women, her unspecified missteps now the subject of probes by the RCMP and the government’s ethics commissioner.

But the Prime Minister surprised me. Rather than acting hurt and reeling and unbelieving, he presented this as an almost inevitable turn of events—part of the routine work of a man in his sort of job. No need for long faces.

“It’s a very sad day,” Harper told reporters, not sounding at all sad. “But, you know, in this business you get the brickbats as well as the bouquets, so when you confront these things, you deal with them, and that’s what we’ve done.”

How very workmanlike of him. He asserted that he was unhappy about whatever dubious conduct his junior minister had been caught in—he offered absolutely no details—but he didn’t appear angry or even particularly put out.

“Look, of course, I’m disappointed with this,” he said. “You know, of course, we all hope in these circumstances things will resolve themselves in a way that’s satisfactory to everybody.”

Of course, of course. In these circumstances. Spot of bother. No need for histrionics. Let’s be professional, shall we? So understated was his performance that I longed a bit for the operatic quality of Mulroney’s many confrontations with the media over scandals big and small in that very foyer.

Then Harper quietly departed, and a few minutes later Michael Ignatieff made his entrance. Ah, now we’d surely be treated to a bit of the classic repertoire: opposition outrage. Is there any other way to play such a scene?

Apparently there is. The Liberal leader adopted an ambivalent tone that was, in its way, every bit as novel as Harper’s oh-well attitude.

“Honestly, I don’t think Canadians want us to get in a bear pit over this,” he said, “because basically everybody ends up being tarred by this brush. That’s the problem here. I’m being honest with you here and it’s perhaps not what you’d expect.”

He had that right. I had been under the impression the bear pit remained a sure ratings winner. Was Ignatieff really signaling that his Liberals would be made to resist the urge to exploit this opening to the full partisan extent? Actually, for all his reticence, he wasn’t going quite that far off script.

“We will pursue it vigorously,” he hastened to add after expressing his distaste for what was, in a previous news cycle, termed the politics of personal destruction. “I’m in the opposition,” Ignatieff explained further. “It’s my job to do so. That’s what the citizens put me here to do and I will do it. But I do it with no pleasure.”

So we have here that sturdy political dramatic premise, the disgraced former minister under investigation, with some nuanced improvisations from those performing the set roles. The Prime Minister, rather than portraying the affair as a shock to his delicate system, treats it as routine political drudgery. The Opposition leader, instead of throwing himself into the part of defender of the nation’s honour with traditional gusto, winces at the unseemliness of the whole matter.

It’s heartening to see such innovation and creativity in our public life.

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  • Claude

    Why would Harper not have come out and simply indicate that he asked her to resign rather than use the current approach of something bad was done but they resigned. It is a small difference but he could have demonstrated more leadership.

    • hollinm

      Give me a break. The woman has resigned or been pushed. The manner is irrelevant. The media and the pack of wolves known as the parliamentary press gallery have destroyed her professionally and personally. They all have accomplished their goal. Now lets get back to the detainee issue that the Libs love so well. Canada must runningy pretty well when this is all the media can excised about.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Douglass Douglass

        Yes, lets all remember that Helena Guergis is not responsible for what happens to Helena Guergis.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Indeed, especially coming from a political party that has a tendancy to make "personal responsibility" an often touted solution for a range of problems.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Douglass Douglass

            I suspect there are some who will always blame the Liberals(or Media, depending on the day) for whatever Geurgis says or does. It's in the hardwiring.

      • Mulletaur

        Oh look, influence peddling is apparently irrelevant to Conservative trolls. How amusing.

        • Jared

          I think that may reflect the fact that the person alleged to have engaged in 'influence peddling' wasn't actually a member of the government at the time he attempted to peddle influence and furthermore, he doesn't seem to have had much actual influence. Allegedly, Jaffer was persona non grata in the PMO for managing to lose a seat in Alberta that he had held for a decade in an election where the Conservatives nationally did relatively well. Does that clear things up or diminish your amusement any?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

        Isn't there anything in this affair for which Geurgis should take personal responsibility?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        If you were honest with yourself, you'd realize her husband and her attitude brought her down. You can't keep blaming the media, and everyone else for things.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

          Not only her husband, she does have a bad attitude, she didn't have an once of humility when she apologized about the PEI incident, I do believe the husband is a major LOSER and drag her down more, but she has to be responsible for this turn of events, is not Harper's or Liberal's fault.

      • Margaret

        The media destroyed her professionally? Really? Wouldn't anyone with half a brain be able to see – first of all that she is in no way a professionally behaved politician? Secondly – she had a crap career before she was pushed into politics by the Tories – I don't know whether Jaffer went into it first, or whether she did – but they obviously saw them as the "glamour couple". She was a failed beauty queen contestant, with rather shady rumours around that "career" in which a woman claims to have received death threats from her. The video was posted on Macleans, I believe. She then owned a bathroom shop. Woo.

        Jaffer had himself impersonated on an Edmonton radio talk show – was arrogant enough to think that would fly, but the aide who was impersonating him was busted after one sentence. Then Jaffer, in true Tory fashion, claimed he knew nothing about it. Then the Tories, bent on having a "visible minority MP", just went ahead and promoted him – and I suppose their joy knew no bounds when he married Jaffer.

        Tories are getting everything they deserve, and it looks good on them. The corruption has stained a wide circle, not just one MP – but two MPs, and they're married. THIS is why corporations don't hire married couples or allow employees to date. It spreads problems. And then there's the question of who was Jaffer in contact with over 10 years as an MP, who was Guergis in contact with, why did she let him use her Parliamentary email – and so on. It wasn't that Harper wanted to get to the bottom of it – he probably knows he's got MPs with drinking and drug problems – but he had to finally acknowledge that he couldn't save the situation.

        Destoyed her professionally? What a hysterical laugh. She never had a profession to begin with.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

        Sure – the media has been blood thirsty. But let's not forget cause and effect, ok?

    • Sue

      I suspect she did something clearly illegal. Harper came to power deriding such shenanigans and he wants her as far away as possible.

  • Guest

    It's the 'shit happens' approach.

  • Emily

    Sad that we spend so much time on such things instead of dealing with real problems.

    • Susan

      The Harper government is a real problem.

      • ex canuck

        Susan, get a life!

      • jdude

        More like the apathetic, non educated public that couldn't tell the difference between anarcho-capitalism and communism.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/SunshineCoaster SunshineCoaster

      I agree that we have "real problems" to deal with. But the first thing any problem needs is honest competent people with integrity and openness to deal with them. The Guergis / Jaffer affair has highlighted the fact that the Harper government is devoid of any of these necessary characteristics. Harper's judgement is lacking in that he is willing to appoint incompetent, unworthy individuals to cabinet. The CPC causcus has proved themselves spineless enough to do whatever Harper asks them, all the while badmouthing a caucus colleague and then at the drop of a hat cheering the downfall of a colleague. The voters of Simcoe-Grey and Edmonton-Strathcona have shown terrible judgement in their choice of MP, and by extension so have voters in many CPC held ridings. It is very apparent that the problem demonstrated by this incident has to be solved before any "real" problems can realistically be even consiered.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/A_logician A_logician

        The voters of Edmonton-Strathcona showed excellent judgment in their current choice of MP. What part of "ex-MP Rahim Jaffer" don't you understand?

        Jaffer and Guergis have showed poor judgment in their choice of spouse, but that's a common enough failing.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

      What is sadder is that you short change Canadians by thinking they can't look at real problems plus the Guergis situattion.

      Can do more than one thing at a time.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        I'm starting to think the problem is that the Harperites are generally short on the ability to do more than one thing at a time. And the real worry is that Canadians are starting to think that's the norm.

        Plan the budget and go to QP? Can't do it.
        Deal with Guergis and govern? Can't do it.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

      I know, you really have been thumb down in this one my friend, hahaha, we like our soap opera gossip and I am giving you thumbs up, lol!

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

        This is a reply to your first post Emily!

    • Margaret

      It's true – partially. It's sad that there are such thugs in politics, and this is a distraction for Harper from the other questionable practises he pushes on Canadians. But – it's an indication of corruption within the Tory party – could go as far as the Mafia, who knows? It has to be cleaned up – just like the Afghan detainee question has to be cleaned up.

  • Stephen

    "Defender of the nation's honour" was last month's role: Ignatieff called Guergis a "liar" (actually, a double-liar) undeserving of the confidence of Canadians because some staffers had written letters on her behalf.

    Today, when the Prime Minister has removed her from cabinet and caucus because of allegations worthy of the attention of the RCMP, it was time to dial down the rhetoric.

    And I don't know if I agree with "wincing": Ignatieff was looking positively gleeful at several points during the scrum, though he may not have been giggling outright when he provided the Conservatives with a clip for their next ad campaign: "I'm a proud member of the political class."

    • MacLean's Regular

      Too bad they can't put it on tax-payer funded 10 percenters anymore though, eh?

      If you think "political class" is some absurd construct, you need to revisit poli-sci 101.

      • Stephen

        The halting of the ten percenters is welcome news.

        "political class" may well be standard in the classroom; it will be a loser on the doorstep.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

          That vote to end the ten percenters wasn't unanimous, was it?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

    From this, I can only assume she and/or Jaffer were redirecting public or party money to their personal benefit. Possibly through Jaffer's misrepresentation of his connections to the Government.

    Or Ignatieff has been using assumed names to write letters to news magazines…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/PoliticalPundit PoliticalPundit

    There is obviously a lot more to this dveloping story than meets the eye.
    Perhaps this explains why PM Harper and the leader of the Official Opposition, Michael Ignatieff, have taken the high road in their respective responses.
    All one can say at the moment is that PM Harper's Evangelical Christian 'values' have taught him that all human beings are capable of good and evil. Every individual is capable of making one or more serious mistakes in their lives. Harper, therefore, is not surprised that Helena Guergis may have transgressed some important aspects of her responsibilities as a Minister of the Crown. Harper displayed, belatedly, some degree of maturity in the way that he dealt with the situation.
    Michael Ignatieff, as he indicated, is simply fulfilling the responsibilities of his position as leader of the Official Opposition. He is also correct in demanding that the Prime Minister make it clear what is the precise nature of the serious allegations that have been made against Helena Guergis. Whatever Harper gained by his initial approach to the crisis will only be undermined if he refused to come straight with Canadians.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

      There is obviously a lot more to this dveloping story than meets the eye.

      No, there isn't.

      MP does some embarrassing and inappropriate things, opposition and media go into attack mode, which includes making false accusations, eventually MP is demoted due to the ongoing embarrassing and inappropriate things. End of story.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

        What planet are you visiting from again?

        When a Prime Minister fires you, kicks you not just out of cabinet but out of caucus, launches an RCMP investigation and an ethics investigation into your conduct, and refuses to say why, there is a heck of a lot more to this story.

        Not the end but the beginning of story.

        • Kevin

          That's it in a nutshell, really.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

          People, people, people. I know you're salivating, because you're partisans after all.

          However, what we have here is:
          -an airport tantrum
          -staffers writing letters to newspapers
          -sharing a govt blackberry with her husband
          -buying a house with no down payment (legally, according to the bank)
          -being married to a guy who was recently in court

          I'm sorry, but your high hopes of another watergate do not compare to the facts. This is the most pathetic excuse for a scandal you've managed to concoct so far. Harper is simply playing the cards he's been dealt.

          • Ted

            SCF, SCF, SCF.

            Calling Harper a liar. Well, maybe there is hope for you yet.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

            So you believe that Harper's launching of the RCMP investigation and an ethics investigation is just him being vindictive?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

            First of all, he cannot launch an investigation. He can refer the matter to the RCMP. They will decide if there is reason for an investigation. And there is little doubt in my mind that there will be none.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

            Terrlbly sorry, didn't realize you were playing the pedant today.

            Are you going to similarly argue that Harper can't call an ethics investigation either?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

            No, it serves two purposes. It protects him for opposition attacks – he wants to keep a clean image of his party and this move helps portray that dedication.

            Secondly, it provides an easy way to turn the channel – he need not answer questions while the rcmp look at the issue, then later when no issue is uncovered he can use that as proof of no wrongdoing.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

        That might be the case except Harper hasn't just demoted her, he's removed her from caucus and referred some allegation — we don't know what — to the RCMP. Neither the Opposition, nor the media, seem to know why, so you can't blame them for that.

      • catherine

        What?? Since when does the Prime Minister call in the RCMP because one of his ministers did something embarrassing?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

          see my comment above.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

            Why do you hate the troops?

    • hollinm

      Sure lets keep the charade going. Lets assume guilt before there is even an investigation. The PM is absolutely right. The ethics commissioner and the RCMP will decide whether Guergis is guilty of any further wrongdoing; not the pack of wolves occupying the parliamentary press gallery and the opposition benches. No wonder women don't want to become involved in politics.
      Iffy keeps saying it is his job to be critical. He does not say he wants to criticize or he likes it. Its his job. That's his problem. Canadians see him as not really committed to politics and is "just visiting".

      • MacLean's Regular

        Raheem?

      • Anon Liberal

        *sigh* I shouldn't even bother but what the hell…

        How is Ignatieff doing his job proof that he is just visiting?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

          The Cons are so gullible. When Ignatieff "first" decided to run for office – if he didn't win he'd go back to Harvard. This is common for a job to be held for a period of time. Ignatieff won his riding so there was no need to go back.

          Just ask Shelley Glover – she's on leave from the police force. Her job is waiting for her.

          Harvard would not grant a leave like the police force do.

          I can't believe the crap coming out of the Con trolls. They believe whatever misinformation is sent their way without checking the actual facts. Unbelievable!

      • Anon Liberal

        By the way it's been 4 years now since entered Canadian politics (slogging through the always fun role of opposition the whole time). That's turning into a pretty long visit.

        Do you think it might be time to retire that talking point?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

          Not as long as they think it gets any traction.

          Truth is irrelevant. Gut feeling is what matters.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Poopypants Poopypants

            "Truth is irrelevant. Gut feeling is what matters."

            …and that would be ConBot rationalization #3.

      • John D

        I'd be sad if my boss got demoted too, but don't you think you're making matters worse?

      • Taco Diety

        "No wonder women don't want to become involved in politics. "

        Ladies and gentlemen, hollinm has proudly provided us with a good example of sexism.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose janicemaerose

        Guergis? Is that you?

  • Emily

    We have a ton of real problems, but for over a week now all the focus has been on the Dynamic Duo instead of the tsunami coming our way.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

      A cabinet minister is under investigation by the RCMP and the Ethics Commissioner and you don't think that is a real problem?????

      • BHA

        Just another ho hum incident on "the hill".

        • Emily

          Well, it's not 'ho-hum', it does have to be dealt with and it's never good to have cabinet ministers under investigation by the Mounties.

          I'm just saying that so much of our public life in recent years has been the 'gotcha' and 'attack politics' stuff that we've gotten away from dealing with the serious problems the country is facing.

          Helena will be forgotten by this time next year, or more likely by this time next week.

          The economic and unemployment crisis will, however, still be with us.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        In the grand scheme of things, it's just another trivial distraction. There are serious issues facing 34 million Canadians, and the travails of Screech and Chong, entertaining as they are, matter not a whit in the real world.

        • MacLean's Regular

          C'mon. You know better than to peddle ConBot rationalization # 8.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

          So you know what the alleged criminal conduct was to know that it is trivial?

          How many Prime Minister's have thrown one of their own cabinet ministers not just out of cabinet but out of caucus, launched not just an ethics investigation into one of their own but a criminal investigation by the RCMP?

          That didn't even happen under Mulroney.

          So either Harper is laying it on super thick so he can pretend he is squeaky clean, or there is something very serious that we are about to find out about.

          It is astonishing how quickly ethics and accountability have become "trivial distractions". Wasn't too long ago, that those were the twin engines of Harper's flight to power.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            So either Harper is laying it on super thick so he can pretend he is squeaky clean, or there is something very serious that we are about to find out about.

            Heh. Nice false dichotomy. Those aren't the only two options, you know. It will probably turn out to be something that is serious from an ethics perspective, but utterly trivial from a "what actually happened?" perspective. Maybe she let Jaffer send an email from her account to that dodgy businessman or something, to make it seem like he had influence.

            Anyway, I wish you best of luck in your continuing effort to milk this as much as you can. This is a great day, because she finally got the boot.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

            So you think Harper, who just over 12 hours earlier was providing her with unqualified full support, launched a criminal investigation into one of his own cabinet minister's conduct over an email? or even over a mere ethics matter?

            Either Harper genuinely thinks that a crime has been committed by Guergis or she will have one heck of an open and shut defamation lawsuit to smooth her way into the private sector.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            So you think Harper, who just over 12 hours earlier was providing her with unqualified full support

            "unqualified full support"? Give me a break. Everyone in Ottawa knew that the PM was just waiting for an opportune time to pull the plug. Not a single person in the Conservative caucus was defending Helena, and everyone wanted her gone. The PMO was dropping extremely unsubtle hints that she should resign.

            she will have one heck of an open and shut defamation lawsuit to smooth her way into the private sector.

            Are we talking about the same Guergis? Her private sector career prospects are all but dead. If Harper didn't think a crime had been committed, it would be extremely foolish to call in the RCMP.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

            That's what makes me wonder. The hints were bloody blatant, this is true.. so.. why bother hinting? Why not take the bull by the horns, actually *show* some leadership and come out and say, "Ms. Guergis has been removed from my Cabinet due to not living up to the level of accountability I expect from my ministers, in particular with respect to her campaign expenses."

            Instead it's this, "Well, if she leaves we'll be really happy, but we're not going to pull the plug ourselves."

            Why on earth not? I mean, any organization will hire it's share of duffers. There's no getting around that, and politics is worse than most given the application process. That said, what defines a good manager/good leader is identifying those duffers and getting them out of there ASAP.. not leaving the onus on the person themselves to voluntarily step down.

          • wilson

            Because Harper does not throw his MPs under the bus.
            That's why he has complete loyalty,
            and Iffy does not.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

            It's hardly throwing an MP under the bus when they've demonstrated they have poor judgment and poor self-control.

            Besides which, is this really a good thing? That MPs know they can do whatever they like and Harper doesn't have the cajones to actually fire them?

          • Ted

            No, he doesn't throw them under a bus. He just kicks them out of caucus and then brings charges of criminal conduct against them.

            And let's not forget that Casey was the first example of this not Guergis.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Okay, this is really getting silly and desparate.

          • Ted

            "If Harper didn't think a crime had been committed, it would be extremely foolish to call in the RCMP."

            That is what I'm saying. What did you think I meant when I wrote: "Either Harper genuinely thinks that a crime has been committed by Guergis or she will have one heck of an open and shut defamation lawsuit to smooth her way into the private sector."

            Too bad ethics and accountability are considered mere "trivial distractions" around here. 2006 is sooooo very long ago.

          • Emily

            They shouldn't have been back then either. We all know Harper made it into a much bigger topic than it was, and now he has his own mess to clean up.

            Eventually we'll get around to running the country. I hope.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Sure, in the grand scheme of things, this affair isn't earth shattering.

          But it is worrying that the cabinet of Canada's federal government included Screech, who apparently exhibited some rather poor judgement. It is that cabinet which is setting the course and steering the federal government as it does it's not insignificant part to deal with the serious issues that are facing 34 million Canadians.

          It does matter more than a whit.

  • Emily

    For the country?? No.

    For Helena and hubby, yes.

    • MacLean's Regular

      "Education, health care, the war in Afghanistan, energy policy, those thing are the issues of importance, and I'd prefer them to be the focus. "

      And you're unable to read about these things,today, why?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        You haven't looked very far obviously. There are articles out there about this stuff.

  • Katherine

    I agree. Political scandals come and go regardless of what party is in power, and generally don't much affect people's everyday lives. Education, health care, the war in Afghanistan, energy policy, those thing are the issues of importance, and I'd prefer them to be the focus.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

      I'd prefer if the government focused on those too. But for some reason, Harper doesn't.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

    Alright, you seem to be someone in the know so can you let us in on what the alleged criminal conduct by this cabinet minister related to because the Prime Minister won't say.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

      because the Prime Minister won't say.

      The PM can't say, as you well know, because there's an investigation by the RCMP now. Iggy tried to peddle that same line in his presser and a reporter called him on it.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

        Why can't he say? Nothing is stopping him.

        It might be inappropriate for him to discuss the details of a pending case, but there is nothing stopping him from telling us what it relates to – influence peddling, campaign expenses, whatever it is.

        Indeed, when you are the government and you launch a criminal investigation into one of your own cabinet ministers who has access to very confidential and important government documents and information, I would say there is an obligation to let us know what it relates to without providing all of the details.

  • tobyornottoby

    Better add the prime minister to your short list of persecutors. He went further than the Opposition asked by kicking her out of caucus and calling the RCMP.

    • wilson

      So what's your point? Harper is a meanie?
      The point actually is ZERO TOLERANCE from this PM to Liberalike shananigans.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        Make up your mind, wilson. Either he doesn't throw them under the bus or he does. Or was she safe from the PMO reporting her to the RCMP up until she resigned her cabinet position?

    • jade_lee

      “She offered her resignation but obviously under these circumstances a resignation was unavoidable,” Harper said. Sounds like he pushed her under the bus! Yesterday they were claiming that it was not unusual for them to let their spouses us government supplied "devices" as if it were no big deal!! This reeks of a security "problem" yet our accountable prime minister continues to be evasive. I don't expect any better from him but I would hope Canadians will right this wrong in the next election.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

    How has any of that prevented Harper from addressing health care, our deteriorating reputation abroad, a mismanaged relationship with the US, record setting deficits, etc.?

    The reason the media spends so much time on what you call "gotcha" politics, is because the government isn't doing anything and is deliberately choosing not to do anything about the really significant problems.

    It is hardly the opposition's fault that we have a do-nothing government.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    I thought it was rationalization #6. I'll have to check the list to make sure.

    • Mulletaur

      I hope those aren't the same talking points as Dimitri was reading from last night when he said that anybody trying to influence peddle would find the doors padlocked.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Poopypants Poopypants

      No, he's right. #6 is "If somebody else does it, then we can too."

  • catherine

    Mr. Geddes, you didn't mention the other unusual thing about Harper's response which Harper himself mentioned. Harper said he would answer a reporter's question "even though you are not on the list".

  • Emily

    I agree that Harper isn't addressing any of those very real problems, and it's because he is too busy with attack politics to even notice we have any.

    I didn't say it was the Opposition's fault.

    The media fails to do it's job in bringing the real problems to the forefront of the national agenda, and demanding answers from the govt. The average person can't do so, and the media seems to trash the Opposition when they try.

    Whatever party you support, the presentations at the recent Thinker's Conference should have sobered everyone up, but instead we were treated to a week of columnists dissing the very idea of having a conference instead of telling the country what we're facing.

    Not much the Opposition…any of them…can do with that kind of response.

    • E.B.

      "and it's because he is too busy with attack politics to even notice we have any. "

      See? There it is again. Apparently, the government is incapable of handling more than one file at a time.

      This would seem to be further testament to Mr. Harper's giant brain and lack thereof in the rest of the government. Sad, though, that as big as Mr. Harper's brain is, he is incapable of multi-tasking.

      Thanks for the reminder…

      • wilson

        PMSH gave a speech at the Vimy Ridge ceremony today….and I imagine his afternoon and evening are booked solid to.

        He took a 15 minute break from running the country to announce Helena's resignation.
        I doubt very much PMSH had to ponder the sitiuation for more than 5 minutes to come out with his response.

        Harper is a seasoned politician (been in politics since 1984), unlike that goofy presser Iffy gave….'ex-MPs are not private citizens', gawd.

        • E.B.

          Sorry, Wilson.

          I just couldn't resist mocking someone who suggested that the government was too busy with 'attack politics' to pay any attention to 'important issues'.

          Sort of like, they had to prorogue to recalibrate, becacuse they couldn't govern and make policy at the same time.

          I'm just saying, it must be awfully difficult to run a country with only one brain, no matter how large.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    It might be inappropriate for him to discuss the details of a pending case, but there is nothing stopping him from telling us what it relates to

    Is that your legal opinion?

    The Prime Minister is being prudent and professional by not discussing what it relates to. He did say categorically that it involves only her – nobody else in government, and no federal employee of any kind.

    Whether it relates to personal expenses or her husband's misuse of her email for influence peddling purposes, we'll find out soon enough. Let the RCMP do their job.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

      Nice excuse. How very convenient for him.

      No need for a legal opinion. You are the one who said he "can't" discuss it when I said he "won't" say it. I am not aware of any reason whatsover in law that says he couldn't discuss every single detail of the case. Lots of practical and strategic reasons and maybe ethical reasons why you wouldn't want to provide lots of details, but nothing says you can't provide those details. And certainly there is nothing that says you can't tell the public that the alleged criminal conduct related to X. In fact, most of the time, such announcement comes with the full allegation, like Chretien did when he referred the adscam matter to the RCMP.

      You seem to disagree with me on this so I'll ask you where it is you think the law prevents him from telling us anything at all about the alleged criminal conduct in his cabinet.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        I'm guessing the PM probably sought and received excellent legal advice on the matter, and the lawyers probably advised him not to comment any further. Perhaps you think he should disregard their advice, but I don 't see the need.

        • Ted

          So which is it CR?

          I said Harper "won't say" what the accusation is, you responded by saying "he can't say" and ignored my request for any grounds for his inability to say.

          Now you are saying he won't say because you have this insider knowledge about what his lawyers are telling him.

          He can't say or he won't say?

          You are not in the PMO yet, you don't get to make two conflictting statements on the same subject, pretend that makes any sense at all and not provide any substantiation.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            The matter is newly under investigation; no charges have been laid, and it would be extremely inappropriate for the PM to say; ergo, he can't say. Let's not play sematic games here.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/NorthernPoV NorthernPoV

      "prudent and professional"

      Stephen effing Harper?

      LOL

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

      History shows us though, that Harper likes to throw up these kinds of blocks – "oh, can't talk about what financial consideration I offered Cadman for his vote… there is a case pending"; "Oh, can't talk about the claims of buying off Liddle for $50,000 there is a case pendign"; "Oh, can't talk about Guergix because there is now a case pending, even though I am the one that initiated the case", etc.

  • John D

    While the CPC talking points are humorous today, what I want to know is: why is there tar and a brush in a bear pit?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

    Is it only my hyper partisan nature – OR – does anyone else get the feeling that both Harper and Iggy are playing this file in an interesting way hmmm I get the feeling I am being tag teemed …. hmmm … I am going to pay attention to the NDP maybe their perspective might be a little more enlightening.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

      The former.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CanadianSense CanadianSense

      After the wafer, H1N1, torch relay, Olympic logo, stimulus spending, taliban prisoner comfort program, these fake scandals have not helped the opposition with the voters. (Most people don't pay attention to politics)

      It's the economy stupid and how it affect them personally. Jobs, Jobs, Jobs.. The gov't has not won or lost the public support as they have not been blamed for the global recession. They will be judged if the spending they have pushed was wasteful.

      Up until the TSTAR story nothing serious was alleged in the public domain regarding H.G. The removal and investigation demostrates a departure on how the Liberals and Conservatives handle serious allegations.

      The partisans from the other camp don't have any perspective, they think Adscam was simply an accounting error and Sheila Fraser Report regarding the breaking every rule was an taken out of context.
      The opposition strategists (recent university graduates) have been overplaying their hands on too many files.

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Crit_Reasoning – I just checked the list – Defending the indefensible is in fact #1!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

      So saying that the Jaffer/Guergis sideshow is ultimately trivial in the grand scheme of things amounts to "defending the indefensible"?

    • MacLean's Regular

      They're all "defending the indefensible."

      For the edification of all:

      # 1 is straight up denial.
      # 2 is "Canadians don't care."
      # 3 is "What's the big deal?"
      #4 is "The Liberals did it too!"
      #5 is "Adscam."
      #6 is "Adscam!!"
      #7 is "AAADSCAAAM!"
      #8 is "This is trivial in the grand scheme of things."

      …and so on, up to #27: "Well, he/she was always a Liberal anyway."

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

        Hahaha I love 27….

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

    I suspect Harper is underplaying this whole thing. If indeed she is guilty of the so-called "serious allegations" (PMO's words), then some of the tar that Helena was brushed with today may find itself sticking to the PMO. In military parlance – collateral damage. Perhaps Harper just hopes that if he underplays it for the press and acts wounded, the press will leave the matter and it will all go away (as it did for Rahim).
    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

  • DiddlyD

    Well the tar and a brush belong to the liberals so the bare pit must belong to the conservatives and if Iggy goes into the pit with his tar and his brush the bear in the pit will teach him a lesson that he really deserves.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

      I'd say the media has been pretty active in the tarring and brushing too.

  • Ryan

    I'm not sure why Geddes is suprised that Harper is throwing Guergis under a bus, that's what he does (Ambrose, Bernier, Lunn).

    • Orson Bean

      Yeah, that's why he named Ambrose to take over Guergis' cabinet responsibilities at this same press conference. In addition to the cabinet responsibilities that Ambrose already has.

      In any event, there is a time for throwing people under a bus — that'd be when they deserve it. So far, it sounds like Guergis qualifies in spades.

      If he hadn't thrown her under the bus today, just imagine the histrionic outrage we'd be hearing from the opposition, the press and their shills.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        Except he didn't. His office had indicated repeatedly that while her resignation was much desired, they wouldn't fire her.

        It's looking like she threw herself under the bus, he just got in and spun the wheels hoping to make it look like leadership.

        • Orson Bean

          I watched his press scrum, and he said that she had to resign given the latest developments, and that if she hadn't, he would have had to fire her. Words to that effect. Who knows where the truth lies. I can't see into people's souls and/or read their minds. Perhaps you can. If so, that's quite a gift you have.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

            Oh please. The reason you had to use "Words to that effect." is because those aren't the words he used at all. He said she resigned and that her resignation was unavoidable. Nowhere did he say he'd fire her, and in fact the PMO is on record numerous times saying that they would NOT fire her, even though they'd welcome her resignation if she chose to give it.

  • gar

    Harper either showed stupidity or lack of leadership to let this go so long.these two have been an embarrassment since Jaffer got charged .Iffy would be wise not to think that he can connect others and the P.M with culpability to criminal actions.The Liberal party has a full closet when it comes to bad deeds and they may find that out soon if this is kept afloat without proof

  • Orson Bean

    My "take-away" from Geddes' piece here: when politicians behave like adults, the press doesn't like it.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

      Well said, no soap opera anymore….

  • BJB

    Spot on Mr. Geddes: "It’s heartening to see such innovation and creativity in our public life." Equally heartening would be for the media and public not to kick someone when she's down.

    • Brian

      She's a public official and was, until yesterday, a sworn member of the nation's cabinet.. Her husband – who skated on a DUI – is allegedly involved in activities which were either in violation of the accountability act, the criminal code, or both.

      If she deserves to get kicked, she gets kicked until the problem has resolved itself, whether she's down or not.

      If he deserves to get kicked, he gets kicked until the problem has resolved itself, and ditto.

      Either of the discredited parties would have rightly said the same thing if the expensed shoe was on the other party's foot.

      End of story.

      • BJB

        Surely the hapless couple kicked themselves down. But does that mean others should pile on? I worry when a community turns like a vicious mob against the sinner. Guergis and Jaffer are being held to account. Let justice take its course and may the rest of society put down its stones.

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