So now, it’s no business of the state

Funny that the ‘Toronto Star’ writer had the opposite view when it came to my columns

by Mark Steyn on Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:00am - 217 Comments
Lucien Bouchard cautions the PQ not to get mixed up with identity politics. ' What a card!

Photograph by Mario Beauregard/CP

Floundering for an argument, he demands to know why, if the rationale is the secular nature of Quebec society, the government doesn’t also defund the Jewish General Hospital and tear down the crucifix at the national assembly. Oh, c’mon, is that the best you can do? That’s like saying, if Chief Commissar Jennifer Lynch’s rationale for the CHRC’s censorship powers is that history shows us powerful words can lead to dark deeds, why does she go after basement Nazis but not the tenured Marxists at every Canadian university in the name of whose political creed untold millions have died?

Why? Because, like I say, statism is arbitrary.

Perhaps Haroon Siddiqui will have better luck waging his campaign against state power than I’ve had with mine. He, after all, is not a “right-wing bigot,” but an exemplary pillar of the Canadian establishment. Why, I see he is a Member of the Order of Canada, which is not something I’m in any danger of this side of an alternative universe. Yet, even so, I would doubt he can win this one.

Almost as hilarious as English Canada’s anguished columnists, Lucien Bouchard cautions the Parti Québécois not to get mixed up with “identity politics.” What a card! Identity politics is, of course, the PQ’s raison d’être. Quebec nationalism came into being to protect Quebec’s “cultural identity.” Once upon a time, that didn’t need explaining: “La langue est gardienne de la foi,” Henri Bourassa said a century ago. The French language protects the Catholic faith. But the faith is long gone, and the churches are empty, and Quebec’s shrivelled, post-Catholic fertility rate combined with a constitutionally dubious, provincially controlled immigration policy has resulted in a recently arrived and ever swelling population from “French” (please, no tittering) North Africa and the Middle East.

Is that all that’s left of Quebec’s “cultural identity”? The lingo? Or to put it another way: suppose, in a few years’ time, the last elderly Anglos who still refer to Trois-Rivières as “Three Rivers” have died off and instead the streets of the province’s cities are clogged with niqab-clad francophones. Would Quebec feel it had won its battle to preserve its “cultural identity”?

Obviously not. Which is why 95 per cent of Quebecers favour the government’s niqab ban. Even in the ROC, support is running at about 80 per cent. Most of the social engineering and the remorseless dismantling of pre-Trudeaupian Canada takes place incrementally, under cover of darkness. The noxious brainwashing of our youth at Canadian universities is mostly concerned with theoreticals and abstractions. But the niqab and the burka are not abstract: they’re the starkest emblem of the gulf between one culture and another, and when they’re shuffling toward you down the sidewalk they’re telling you something about where your society’s headed. In that sense, they’re the most provocatively absurd of multiculturalism’s fatuities. Naema Ahmed’s lack of a face is, paradoxically, in your face—in a way that many of the multiculti delusions never quite are. It is also a reminder of our likely fate—that Western civilization will not be succeeded by a rainbow-hued utopia but by fractious and mutually hostile barbarisms.

At a certain level, the niqab wars are pathetic. They’re proxy battles for the real issues—on immigration, assimilation, and much else. But the niqab is blazingly vivid in a way that the big abstract nouns aren’t. And, whatever anglophone progressives may think, Jean Charest’s heavy-handed opportunism is in the grand tradition of Canadian statism.

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  • chambers

    “The question revolves around simple civility and the freedom of expression provided by a language’s potential for alternatives…."____What a howler! M. LeFive must have a background as an academic because only an intellectual coud write something so asinine. Yet, in a way, it perfectly illustrates the point Mark is making. Of course any language has "potential for alternatives" but when the STATE decides which of those alternatives are acceptably "civil" AND has the power to suppress those that are not then you have lost free speech. Therre is simply no third option. "Progressives" in Canada (and the U.S.) are desparately trying square a circle that can't be squared. They hunger to stamp out, obliterate, erase and censor expression that they find unacceptable or lacking in "civility." At the same time they STILL want to be regarded as the down-the-line paladins for free speech that good liberals are expected to be. "The Affair of the Niqab" occuring as it does within the percincts of "protected" French-Canadian identity illustrates the amazing contortions that everyone is expected to to engage in to reach this rather pathetic end.

    • Orson Bean

      To me, the clearest evidence that Canadian self-styled "progressives" are inherently intolerant is to hear them go on about the National Post. To hear them speak, you'd swear the NP was Mein Kampf or something. They basically want it banned, and long for the day when it ceases to exist. The "progressive" utopia for them seems to be a world where we're strapped in our chairs and forced to watch Judy Rebick on the CBC. "Progressives" in Canada are tolerant of only one thing: views that they approve of.

  • Oliver

    I agree with Steyn!!
    Incredible, I never thought this day would come!

  • thebadseed

    typical muslim BS, double standards, lies, and myth making, typical 3rd worlder

  • ignerent

    This would all end if we could convince prostitutes to start wearing them jibijabab outfits.

  • kcm

    You gotta love Steyn. Only the other day he was arguing that the right to not be offended is no right at all [ or rather the price of state enforcement of such a right is too onerous to bear...i agreed with him] But low and behold apparently the niqab is an offence which Mark will not up put with. Good to see his principles are about as consistently held as the majority of us plebes.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

      You need to read the article again for comprehension. Steyn does not say he is offended by the niquab. He's offended by double standards.

      • kcm

        I comprehend all right. I just don't believe that people like you or Steyn are willing to stand by implied principles – that however distateful it may be to most of our societies cultural norms, these womwn have the right to express their religion in whatever form they like. Certainly some of your other comments lead me to think your no libertarian. In my personal view there should be compelling evidence that these individuals are being coerced, or somehow forced to adopt the Burka/Niqab against their will, before the state even considers taking action against them; best of all would be if the muslim community dealt with it themselves. I note many conservatives types are as willing to use the power of the state to ban what they don't like, as are miguided liberals.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

          You do have a comprehension problem. First you misrepresented Steyn's views, now mine. Like many liberals, when you're shown to be wrong (e.g. claiming that Steyn wants the niquab banned instead of using it to illustrate yet another liberal double standard) instead of admitting it or at least remaining silent, you pretend the argument was about something else.

          You also keep promulgating the fiction that the niquab is merely "religious" garb when it is actually a signifier of an ideology, Islamic fundamentalism, the driver behind Islamic terrorism. There is no religious requirement for veiling. As I've said elsewhere, bin Laden's second in command Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri has said that even the hijab is the uniform of "soldiers in the battle of Islam".

          Dragging in the business of whether women are forced to wear it or do so voluntarily has nothing to do with either Steyn's or my point. It's just another red herring as whether they are drafted by their men or volunteers, they are soldiers in uniform according to Zawahiri.

          I don't think during WWII you would have been so sanguine about people running around in Canada wearing the regalia of the totalitarianism of the day.

  • Leo

    When there is an issue of individual or group safety or threat of violence, the state does indeed have the right to dictate what one must wear or not wear.
    The mandate can be safety vests on construction sites, helmets on motorcycles, banning gang jackets in high schools.
    A Vancouver judge has just prohibited a gang member from wearing his colours in public because they were used to intimidate people.
    I see no reason why Sikh's cannot wear the ceremonial dagger as I have not seen evidence of a threat.
    Burka's unfortunately are a different matter.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

      One Sikh just stabbed another with his kirpan and there have been other incidents where the supposedly ceremonial dagger has been used in a threatening manner.

      If it's truly ceremonial, then it could and should be shrunk to innocuous size.

  • howard smithers

    As Canadian and therefore progressive nation hosted civilians it is now time to assimilate and change your repressed lifestyles. Your imported images of grim reaper type costumes are not welcome. You have to take an active role in evolving out of generationally developed dark culture traits that you are a part of. The religious brainwashing of any offspring to follow submissive roles is past. The arcane belief that women are at fault for a man’s perverse actions due to his own lack of self control is of Neanderthal concept. Next the occupying extreme and therefore retarded Islamists will have our music turned off as they have done in Somalia.

  • Ariadne

    I believe the issue is not about human rights, religious rights or what not. It is about security. A scarf should be fine as long as it does not cover the face. How we long to have those days where you can cover your face anywhere you go without consequences, but those days were gone (or where there even such a time?). Today we face so many security challenges, including mask robbers, mask rapists, mask kidnappers, mask terrorists, and etc without any ways of identification. For once, can people just be sensitive with the security needs of today and not cry human rights violations at anytime. Can we just use common sense for once?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RobinBC RobinBC

    April 17 News "TWO suicide bombers dressed in burqas have struck a crowd of displaced people collecting aid handouts at a camp in northwest Pakistan, killing at least 41 and wounding more than 60."

    Of course this is not the first time that burqas have been used by "women" suicide bombers to disguise their explosives. But hey, we only have "moderate" Muslims in Canada right? Or is the problem the not bukas or the niqab but Muslims? Over 20 countries in the world today might say the latter.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

      Women aren't the only suicide bombers to use the burqa as security-proof disguising of their explosives. Men do it as well, in their native Nations of Islam as well as here in Canada (http://www.mississauga.com/news/article/31740–police-hunt-burqa-bandit).

      I don't know why Canadians think they are so special as to be exempt from all of the other infidel-aimed terrorist attacks as well as the ones that kills the most, those carried out against their own people.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

        Yes, Canadians treat Muslim terrorists like the Toronto bunch as bumbling impotent fools. So were the 9/11 crew until they got lucky and 3000 innocents were not so lucky.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/ntt ntt

    I understand the purpose of the Burka is to prevent Muslim men from becoming uncontrollably aroused at the sight of the female form.

    This may well work for Muslim women but what of western women going about their rightful business? will we accept increases in sexual assault as they have in Sweden and Holland?

    Rather than acting against the burka,I propose that all Muslim men
    be forced to wear some form of locking steel codpiece perhaps with flashing diodes to warn unsuspecting passersby the wearer is an adherent to a religion that condones pederasty and rape.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RobinBC RobinBC

    Good point NTT.

    In Australia they seem to feel the Courts need to consider tolerance of cultural traditions when a crime is committed.
    News item: April 16, 2010
    Chief Justice of the NSW Supreme Court James Spigelman says courts need to consider tolerance of cultural traditions. Justice Spigelman cited the case of a Jordanian man accused of attempting to hire a person to kill his niece, who had ended her forced marriage and started a relationship with another man.
    "The sentencing posed "acute issues" as to how much the cultural sense of disgrace experienced by the man should be taken into account."
    "These are difficult issues calling for judgement based on experience," Justice Spigelman said.

    This is what "multiculturalism" really means Canada. Happy now?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

      Canada already does that in its legal system. Gladue court is especially for every and anyone claiming to be Aboriginal, no matter how far back the lineage. A criminal's background, whether he be an orphan or a Somali, is always taken into account. Accents become the reason for slurred speech on drunk driving busts. Lack of a Mandingo interpreter from Nambia is reason enough for throwing a case out, nevermind one of the requirements for immigration be that the applicant have a firm grasp of English. Gang members are only ever approached by police because of their skin colour. I've seen and heard it all — it's already here.

  • Yo Toronto

    If you must wear a niqab, go back to where you came from. You come to Canada for western lifestyle. If you must live in medieval times with your barbaric customs, go back.

    • Celery

      I don't recall the white settlers following native customs and traditions when they arrived in Canada.

  • Mo Vancouver

    What is common in the following countries: Philipines, Thailand, India, Russia, UK, Middle East, China, Spain, Norway, US etc. All these countries have or are still suffering from Islamic terrorism. Canada wake up!! Stop Muslims immigration now. Tomorrow will be too late. They will demand a separate country.

    • Celery

      The Middle East is not a country…

  • Li nda Ball

    I constantly fail to undestand why real Canadians won't admit that Trudeau ruined our beautiful country and robbed us of our way of life. Now it seems we have to lock our doors at night, triple our police forces at taxpayers' expense because outsiders who are "welcomed" here bring with them their vendettas and continue killing each other on our city streets. Now a judge in Toronto is allowed to force courthouse staff to remove their Christmas tree from the courthouse lobby for fear it may "offend some people". We were raised to be respectful and look people in the eye. Now we are forced to watch women and girls walking freely around looking like witches on Halloween. We don't want to see people wearing ski masks or stockings over their head – it's frightening. Why then, should anyone in OUR society be allowed to cover their entire bodies, including their heads? What is it they are hiding from? One also wonders why so many (blind) people insist on misquoting Mark Steyn and are constantly misreading and twisting what he has to say.

    • kcm

      Canada was a paradise before the charter..ah the good old days…when men were men and women, children and minorites knew their place. Thank goodness twerps like Steyn can just hang it all on Trudeau…i mean, if it wasn't for him, we'd have no one to blame but ourselves.

  • Adam

    What's funny is how many WOMYN [sic] love these shmataheads. If you substitute 'immodesty' for 'sexual objectification', you get the same discourse from religious nutjobs (I'm including some Christians, Jews, Sikhs and Hindus, here) as radical, hairy-pitted feminists. The REAL reason for this is simple: a bag over the head–or, better yet, a full body-bag burqa–is a great equaliser–you can't tell Wendy Cukier from Blake Lively. This is probably why fat, white, Christian multiculti women keep marrying al Qaeda sleepers…

  • Taxslave

    If I was to work in a bank and saw someone come in in a body bag I would hit the panic button first and then ask questions.

  • Rodney Rooster

    People are supposed to come to Canada to embrace our freedoms. Why can't they respect our culture that brought those freedoms. Niqabs and burkas are very intimidating for the simple facts that the wearer could be male or female and could have tons of explosives strapped to their bodies, prepared to blow the citizens of 'their new home' to smithereens – who can tell? Masked 'protesters' seem "oxy morons" to me as well – where is the courage of their convictions!
    Having said that I will add that we need to do a harsh reality shake concerning our state of non-democracy. Our present mode of tow the party line or else governing is getting close to Hitlerish! Politics is becoming absolutely pathetic!!

    • Stephen

      "Niqabs and burkas are very intimidating for the simple facts that the wearer could be male or female and could have tons of explosives strapped to their bodies…"

      Unless they have the explosives attached to their face, I fail to see how forcing them to remove their niqab will keep you or I safe.

      • kcm

        "…and could have tons of of explosives strapped to their bodies."

        Good god! That hadn't occurred to me before.Make the buggers go through bomb detectors at the local safeway i say – disgraceful, it oughtened to be allowed. What's this country coming too, i say!

      • MacLean's Regular

        Heh heh.

        Try again, Rodney.

  • Stephen Peers

    those people immigrated to this country to get away from theirs… and still make their chattels- their women wear that garment, like they were trying to live within the laws and ideals of their previous country. whiteies would have been told by authorities that they cant cover their faces, and there is the hijab as an alternative (the one that exposes the mouth too) so I don't see a problem in banning the niqab and burka. come to this country, love its freedom, but there are some standards that must be followed.

  • Krysta Lanyi

    what if a wanted criminal put on a burka and evaded police?

  • Arthur J Smedley

    As an outsider I would just like to say this:

    It is patently obvious to me that you Canadians fall into two groups .

    On the one hand , you have the Left which is promoting the disintegration of your society in an alliance with the incomers.

    On the other hand , there is the silent majority : gutless cowards to a man.

    You deserve what you get and Steyn has told you clearly , again and again , what that looks like.

    You choose to name-call him because you don't want to admit that you are impotent and very scared and don't know what to do

    Well I have some more bad news for you …there is nowhere to run to. The entire planet is going in one direction and it isn't good old democratic , safe and cosy.

    They say that people are too comfortable these days and just want a quiet life. When it hurts enough , you will do something about it .

    • MacLean's Regular

      "You choose to name-call him…."

      We don't *choose* to. It just comes naturally.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/adb215 Not Guilty

    At least I can keep a straight face here. I do not support the ban, nor do I support government censorship of hate speech (until it reaches the level of threats and incitement of violence). I am in fact, opposed to state intervention. Most of you are only opposed until it suits your purposes. HYPOCRITES.

  • Paul Monroe

    I agree with Steyn on this one- yet again. The thicker veil is the absurd political correctness bs that permeates all of Canada.
    Where's spontaneity? Nobody can say what one thinks – and this just keeps problems getting farther and farther from being solved. I am an immigrant in Montreal. I only hear people talking about immigrants when they're complaining about "us" (and it's funny because there are so many different "cultural communities" that I don't know who "us" is anymore) or when the Minister of Immigration (Yolanda James) asks for money for her "programs" (the ones we only hear about but never see).
    Integration? What a joke. And Québecers are worse. They never talk to "us" (it is not funny) and they deem us as a major threat to the survival of French in Québec (that's another good joke).
    Mr Steyn , keep at it.

  • MacLean's Regular

    Editor’s Note: In this column, “True North strong not free,” (April 12, 2010), quotes were attributed to the Canadian Jewish Congress that came from The Mississauga News. The CJC had posted the quotes on their website under the heading ‘Articles of Interest.’ Subsequent commentary and satire in the column was linked to those quotes. Maclean’s regrets any confusion they might have caused by attributing certain positions directly to the CJC.

    Haw haw haw!

  • Wilma

    It used to be that polygamy was also illegal in Canada. But now, Saskatchewan has legalized it by using their Family Property laws to allow judges to create subsequent sametimevspousal unions even when one or more of the people is already married. They don't even have to consent.
    It used to be that anyone who sanctioned or created a subsequent spousal union (that exists at the same time as a current marriage) was also guilty of polygamy. Now judges in Saskatchewan can do it at will. Nobody charges them, so why should Canada try to stop any other muslim related practices.

  • JamesS

    RunningGag, you missed the point: nowhere in Steyn's article did he say he approved of the niquab ban. He was pointing out the hypocrisy and double standards of those who are all for state intervention where it agrees with their agenda, but are outraged when it violates it.

    I agree that there may be situations where the state should insist on seeing one's face, e.g., getting driver's licenses, walking into a bank, or in a classroom environment — but that's not the same as an outright ban.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    This isn't the first article that he's written on the subject.

  • hosertohoosier

    Steyn very recently wrote an article with the headline "I'm with the intolerant Quebecers". Yes the issue is a bit different because the niqab bill only denied access to government services, rather than banning one aspect of freedom of expression altogether. Does Mark Steyn believe that the government should be able to deny him access to services whenever he writes columns that offend people? Obviously not. So yes, Steyn's position is absolutely hypocritical (mine is not – I don't care about hate speech or niqabs. The "Fire!" in a crowded theatre case and the leaking of military secrets are about the only limits on expression I support).

  • judy

    How can one drive with a niquab, no peripheral vision.I guess they don't want equality either. In that case why try to integrate and ask for rights.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/adb215 Not Guilty

    YOU'VE missed the FACT that Steyn has said in PREVIOUS articles that he DOES support the ban.

  • Gabe

    Jean Charest is not "banning" the Niqab. And Steyn does not support a ban on the Niqab, only the bill proposed by Charest (which does not ban the Niqab, but does not lay out quite clearly what limitations you may face as a Niqab wearer- driven by what is reasonable accommodation).

    Even Siddiqui, who deserves the sort of scorn heaped on him in this article, is not really against the content of the Bill. He believes the courts should decide if the Niqabis are making undue demands on the State. [So for example, he seems supports the right of Airport security to demand that the Niqabi uncover their face, but how about doctors? Or transit workers?]

    Since Steyn does not believe in State intrusion into anything (health care included- he supports private health care), then this point is quite moot, and you're not really in a position to call him a hypocrite, because at least he is consistent.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

    Did JamesS ask you how many articles Steyn has written on the subject?

    If you can't defend your position, you should reconsider it.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    Since Steyn does not believe in State intrusion into anything…

    You could be right, I haven't read all of Mark's stuff. However, I have read pieces from him in which he laments such things as the passing of the same-sex marriage legislation. Which, truth be told, was an effort to get the government out of something.
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/04/09/we%E2%80%99re-…

  • Guest

    Speaking of that polygamy article:
    http://mediaculpapost.blogspot.com/2010/03/mark-s…

  • Steve M

    I think we can have a debate over whether the same-sex marriage legislation was an withdrawal of gov't authority…

    "You folks marry whomever you want. The Gov't doesn't care anymore."

    …or an expansion.

    "Guess what Canada? The Gov't says the definition of marriage now includes same sex couples. Like or lump it."

  • gabe

    I don't see any inconsistency in this article. I'm not much of a Steyn fan, but what gives his points potency is the hypocrisy of the "other" viewpoint.

    I support same sex marriage. Well any marriage really. I don't think the state should be in the business of marriage at all, it's a personal choice after all. But the same counts for polygamous unions (or marriages).

    Now I don't know if the person he refers to in this article "Claire L’Heureux-Dubé" said what she said. If she did, why argue as she did as opposed to the logical point of civil liberties, and the rights of individuals of conducting their lives in ways that suit them best.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    Sure we can!

    "Guess what Canada? The Gov't says the definition of marriage now includes same sex couples. Like or lump it."

    Who is the government to be defining anything between consenting adults? And, I'm not sure who this effects outside of the people involved in the relationships.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Viva_Vivian Viva_Vivian

    What is your position beyond "not caring"? Apathy is so not helpful to these discussions.

  • TomY

    Inadvertently, you're making Steyn's point precisely. You favor the goverment regulating the political ideas that form the basis of our public discussions, but deny that the goverment "should be defining anything between consenting adults".

    This is beyond ludicrous. A "marriage" with all the legal consequences that that implies, between 2 guys, 5 women and a sheep, is not within the proper sphere of regulation by the collective, but the terms and arguments that can be publicly used to discuss such arrangements, ARE to be regulated by the collective.

    Completely crazy, and if society cannot get a grip here, we are definitely headed for the big swirly.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    You favor the goverment regulating the political ideas that form the basis of our public discussions

    I don't advocate the government regulate anything. I'm saying the exact opposite. The government has no business interfering in the affairs of consenting adults. What part of that statement says that the government should regulate something?

    This is beyond ludicrous. A "marriage" with all the legal consequences that that implies, between 2 guys, 5 women and a sheep, is not within the proper sphere of regulation by the collective, but the terms and arguments that can be publicly used to discuss such arrangements, ARE to be regulated by the collective.

    I'm not sure where I said any of this.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    The inconsistency is that Steyn is railing against the evils of allowing same-sex marriage. Apparently he warned that the sky would fall if it was legalised and now we have our proof. It indicates a clear opposition to legalising same-sex marriage. Which would contradict your assertion that "Steyn does not believe in State intrusion into anything."

  • Gabe

    I don't disagree with your point. Just that it is not derived from this article. Nothing in this article says he thinks the sky will fall. Nor does he really discuss anything about gay marriage in its own merits.

    Out of curiosity, are you opposed to polygamous unions and marriages?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

    From what I've read of Mr. Steyn, he seems to stay away from outright stating his opinions but he will present things in a way that makes it clear where he stands. I guess we'll agree to disagree on the content of the article.

    Out of curiosity, are you opposed to polygamous unions and marriages?

    Personally? I don't really care one way or the other. I do, however, do my best to not to advocate for government involvement in peoples' lives. Assuming that a person isn't infringing on the rights of others, I don't think that its my place to tell someone what they can and can't do with their time.

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