Vancouver housing market: no logic

Internet game, Crack Shack or Mansion?, may be the best indicator of a city’s out-of-control prices

by Ken MacQueen on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:05am - 70 Comments

Petr Pospisil, a frustrated Vancouver teacher, and his girlfriend Ola Rugula have scored a viral Internet hit with their homemade game Crack Shack or Mansion? The object of the exercise is to click through a series of house photos and decide if they are North American drug dens that police have seized and shut down, or if they’re Vancouver “mansions,” which is to say a house listed this April at over $1 million. Good luck spotting the difference.

“It’s scary. I couldn’t believe what I was finding,” Pospisil, who has resigned himself to renting, told Vancouver’s Province newspaper. “I have no hope of owning anything for now.” Vancouver’s housing market has roared back. Prices are at, or above, pre-recession levels. There are any number of reasons for this: a mini post-Olympic boom, fears that low mortgage rates will soon disappear and the desire to escape cost increases July 1, when the 12-per-cent HST, the combined federal-provincial sales tax, adds to the price of new homes and real estate fees.

Has the Vancouver market peaked? Good question—one that bores many a Vancouver dinner party, and one that preoccupies such Internet sites. One has brought the roller coaster metaphor to life, showing why Vancouver’s housing market isn’t for the faint of heart or weak of wallet. Back on the ground there are some real life lamentations at the Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive. Not to get too technical, but if you look at the index of the Vancouver housing market, it looks an awful lot like the profile of the North Shore mountains.  There is a steady, rising slope, say from the years 2002 to 2005, which, if it were an elevation map, would correspond to the geographic mountainside location of West Vancouver and North Vancouver, two of the three most expensive areas to live in the Lower Mainland. The other is Vancouver’s west side. The index starts an insanely steep climb, starting in 2006 to the present. Again, if this were a map instead of a chart, you’d be clinging to the peaks of Cypress or Grouse mountains. One miscalculation, and you’ve a long way to fall.

And so it is with Greater Vancouver’s real estate market. People are indeed clinging by their fingernails as they try to meet their mortgage payments. The anecdote archive tells an all-too-typical story of a couple who bought a $1.2 million house with a $700,000 mortgage. The husband was laid off last month and the wife isn’t sure if her job is secure. Others like Pospisil despair of ever getting into the market. Certainly if you have to fall $700,000 into debt, why would you want to?

But in some parts of the Lower Mainland those sorts of mortgages are the price of admission. North Vancouver, the poor cousin of the three highest cost areas, had a benchmark price in March for a typical detached home of $927,122. A similar benchmark or typical house in neighbouring West Vancouver sold for $1,440,747. And in Vancouver’s west side it went for $1,656,986, according to the latest figures from the Greater Vancouver Real Estate Board. True, there was a dip in housing prices in late 2008 and much of 2009, but it was temporary, and relatively minor in nature. It was certainly not the burst housing bubble that many predicted, and still predict, will hit. By rights the housing prices should have peaked, but logic has long since left the market place.

The affordability index for Greater Vancouver looks particularly grim. Family incomes are static but housing costs aren’t. By one measure, the Demographic International Housing Affordability Survey, Vancouver is the most unaffordable city in Canada, and the 15th worst among 100 cities worldwide. Survey co-author, Hugh Pavletich of New Zealand, says ideally housing costs should not exceed three-times the family’s income, meaning an affordability index of three. Anything above 5.1 is ranked in the survey as “severely unaffordable.” Vancouver has an index of 6.6, which Pavletich called “bloody absurd.”

Canadian banks are also concerned, if a little more circumspect. Says RBC in a recent report on the Vancouver market: “Such poor affordability levels represents an element of risk that could weigh heavily on markets when interest rates start rising.”

Certainly Vancouverites have the least wiggle room. Already 68 per cent of their average disposable income is spent on housing costs. That compares to 44 per cent in Toronto, 35 per cent in Calgary and 36 per cent in Montreal. It’s a sure bet, in the wake of the epic housing meltdown in the U.S, that Canadian lenders today are taking a harder look at the finances of wannabe homeowners. But is that enough to prevent a burst bubble if inflation rises and interest rates jump?

The fact that the floor didn’t fall out of house values during the worst of the recession gives some hope that the market isn’t as over hyped as some fear. Most smart buyers are also relying on mortgage helpers. It’s a rare new home that isn’t built without a self-contained rental suite to provide some income. The occasional mom and pop marijuana grow-op isn’t unheard of either. Not quite a crack shack, but still a risky way to pay the bills. Real estate: Vancouver’s gateway drug.

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  • buffates

    Actually the Vancouver index is 9.3 But thanks for comin' out

  • http://www.newhomesdirectory.com/ Jim Adams

    Hi Ken, I've seen the website and recently read another article on the same topic. We all know that Canada did not partake in the lending feast like California, Arizona, and Nevada but some of those 'mansions' resemble many million dollars shacks in those states. Great post, and nice to meet you.

    Jim Adams – CEO
    New Homes Directory .com

    • Veej

      Boy what a shocker that you work in the RE business. If Canada did not partake in the lending feast then exactly what do you call zero down and 40 year amortization with zero risk to the lender?

  • Juan

    The floor didn't fall out because the state placed a trampoline under prices. Prices bounced back up. Hands up, those who think this can continue for ever. I have a beach front condo here in Miami to sell you.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/FVerhoeven FVerhoeven

      Tell me a little bit about the condo in Miami you have for sale. Some good house bargain hunting out that way, not? Just north of Miami would be better, somewhere around St.Augustine…..

      • Juan

        I'd hold off on that for a few years. The bubble lives on down here.

  • Dan McLean

    Vancouverites didn't avoid the housing bubble. They just witness the delay of it. Prepare for house prices to plummet and don't whine when they do. Don't feel sorry for those who bought $750,000 mortgages when they call ill afford to service their debt. A balance will eventually come to Vancouver and many many people will be left in the gutter. They are the greedy and ill informed gamblers. That's reality. The only question is when.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/FVerhoeven FVerhoeven

      I'm not so sure. If I compare the hot housing market in The Netherlands for instance, which has been going on for at least a decade or more, the warnings have been trumpeted alongside, without any changes in sight. I am not sure the housing market will collapse in popular places such as Vancouver and major cities in Europe.

      There is also money to be had coming from old parents dying, freeing up a significant amount of money to be distributed to the house hunting generation.

    • Kevin

      you keep waiting Dan..

      • Orson Bean

        Another huge confounding factor is drug money. A lot of drug money is being generated, and one of the main places people will put that money is real estate.

    • CalgaryBoy

      It's happening summer of 2010…RIGHT NOW :D

  • Atomic Walrus

    Vancouver's housing market has some unique features compared with the rest of Canada. One is that it's an attractive place to live with a lot of in-migration (not that the rest of Canada isn't a nice place to live, but hey…) Another is that it's extremely geographically constrained, which limits the availability of real estate. Rising demand plus limited supply leads to high prices. Comparing Vancouver to housing bubbles in Miami or the southwest US is inapt for this reason. A better comparison would be with New York City, San Francisco, or Seattle. All of those are known as places with high real estate prices as well.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/FVerhoeven FVerhoeven

      Very insightfull comment

    • canadian

      ".A better comparison would be with New York City, San Francisco, or Seattle. All of those are known as places with high real estate prices as well."

      NYC is down over 15% from peak and house prices are much lower in terms of rents and incomes than Vancouver. San Francisco is down over 40% from peak. Seattle is only 1/2 as expensive as Vancouver, with more good jobs.

      Vancouver isn't different, just a lot more stupid. Its day of reckoning is coming, and soon.

    • spitfires

      "Another is that it's extremely geographically constrained, which limits the availability of real estate."

      Give me a break Atomic Walrus! Have you driven around the lower mainland lately? Sure it is limited by the ocean to the West, but there is still tons and tons of land to the East and North East. You need to get out more often. Also, for those who want to stay closer to the downtown core, they are building up. You can get a lot of units in a high-rise. Ever been to Hong Kong? Tokyo? Osaka? Vancouver has a lot more growing UP it can do.

      I'm so tired of this BS argument – no more land – did you know they were saying the same thing in Los Vegas in 2005 just before their bubble burst? Yeah Los Vegas, desert with mountains to the North.

      Extremely constrained. Bah!

      • Kevin

        How is it not constrained? lets start dt vancouver. now head west and you're in the ocean in five minutes. head north and you hit the mountains. head south you hit the border. head east and the sprawl is already there! There is not a lot of room for expansion there.

    • http://twitter.com/alanpater @alanpater

      Population growth in Vancouver is not greater than any other city in Canada. And there is no shortage of supply, the total number of households continues to grow at a greater rate than population, as it has for the last decade at least.

    • pzi

      miami was an attractive place to live with lot of immigration…. yet it plunged.
      nyc, sf, and seattle all witness significant declines

  • http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org Hugh Pavletich

    McLeans is to be commended for illustrating the absurd property prices in Vancouver – but regrettably, in quoting me got it wrong. These comments were made some three years ago and the situation is much worse now.

    The 6th Annual Demographia International Housing Affordability released January this year found that Vancouver is the most severely unaffordable housing market of 272 major urban markets of the Anglo world (UK, USA, Can, Aust, Ire, NZ) at 9.3 times annual household incomes. Housing should not exceed 3.0 times household incomes.

    Further information is available athttp://www.demographia.com and on the writers website athttp://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org. Readers will note there is currently good political progress being made in New Zealand in dealing with these unnecessary structural and planning issues.

    Hugh Pavletich
    Co author – Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey
    Performance Urban Planning http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org
    Christchurch
    New Zealand

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/FVerhoeven FVerhoeven

      Yeah, I am currently living in New Zealand, around Dunedin, and I think the housing market has gone crazy here too!

      I can't quite figure this out. I know that capital gains tax (none) has something to do with the surging house market, but that alone won't account for the surge, imho.

      Perhaps I sould read into it further, perhaps read some of the websites you refer to, but I'm not really an interested buyer into the NZ market at this point, so I may not delve into the topic.

  • Snowbird

    5% down with unlimited size mortgages? long term loans with 5 year terms? don't know why you think you're special, but your lending is about the same as it was in the US. in fact, Freddie and Fannie only insured 1st mortgages up to 80% of value. your govt is guaranteeing 95% loans? crazy. also, the 5% is often borrowed. you're in a frenzy about home ownership. i'm afraid the ride will have to come to an end.

  • Juan

    Atomic Walrus,

    Miami has the everglades to the west and a pond to the east. We also have fields of ghettos that must be avoided like herpes. Do you have several Haiti's in Vancouver? Such a situation pushes up prices quite a bit (in livable areas).

    Take a look at the listings in Van. Up 100% since Jan. Have fun.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/FVerhoeven FVerhoeven

    Hugh Pavletich, who posted earlier to correct and add information, provides some interesting thoughts on housing markets and its ups and downs.

    I didn't read it all, but what I read is certainly of interest to urban areas, generally speaking.

    Some thoughts to ponder:

    "Because of the general public and media disinterest in local government – the elected representatives and staff quickly become “bored” with infrastructure and feel pretty much “liberated” to expand the bureaucracies and engage in activities that are more “fun”. Fire cracker displays; free (rate payer paid) concerts; meaningless conferences, meetings and seminars; so called marketing and economic development programs; complex, often conflicting and never ending regulatory processes……..the list goes on."

    and

    "There is a world of difference between “management” and “administration”. We need to start seeing “performance based governance and management” within local government."

  • http://jaybanks.ca Jay Banks

    The situation in Vancouver is becoming extreme, market is overheating. And it's clear that interest rates could rise as early as June. People should really start to think – if someone buys a house with a $700,000 mortgage, even a slight hike in interest rates could have a deep impact on those whose incomes aren't rising fast enough. I believe that balance will be restored, I just hope it won't be too late.

    • ohReally

      especially when they are on floating mortgages. at about 2.5 %

  • Joseph Bubba

    Atomic Walrus, Did you not notice that prices in New York City fell by about 30% so far? Seattles prices are down nearly as much, so how are your comparisons working out now? You might take a look at Hong Kong which is much more constrained than Vancouver and see the massive real estate crashes they've enjoyed in the past. But yeah I get it it's "different here" right?

    • Atomic Walrus

      Yes, they've fallen. That's because the US economy is in serious trouble at the moment. That's not the case for Canada's economy. However, I think you'd also notice that the PRICE of homes in New York or San Francisco are still on the same order as Vancouver. Vancouver housing prices are still not bad compared to other major cities. That is not to say that Vancouver is immune to market variations, but that it's not unreasonable to expect that it's going to be a very expensive market in the long run.

      • http://www.holypotato.net Potato

        The house prices fell first, then the economy went into a tailspin. It can happen here, too.

        Mark Carney even says that a large part of what pulled our economy through the recession was the housing sector — all those people doing renos to get their tax credit, and flipping houses with massive leverage. Once we have to deal with having pulled all that demand forward, house prices will fall, and once they start to fall a bit, that construction/sales activity will dry up, and that will put us into a recession, which will further affect home prices in a vicious cycle…

  • Jack NoSourGrapes

    I always find it odd that some people are so bitter about the housing situation in Vancouver, hoping and praying that the market will crash so that they can sit on the sidelines and laugh.

    Look, we are sorry you aren't able to afford a house in Vancouver. There are people in cities all over the world that can't afford to own there, so deal with it and move on.

    Sitting and bitching, waiting for a crash that won't come isn't going to do you any good. Yeah the prices may drop by 5% or 10% at some point, but so what – they've already gone up by 20% this year and continue to climb. Even if they do drop in the next year or two it's highly likely that the new lower prices will still be higher than they are today.

    • nonymouse

      If a loaf of wonder bread is $250 it's overpriced regardless of an individuals ability to afford it.

    • NoGrapes_in_a_Desert

      Jack,

      Look around the world (Thailand, Mexico, France, Dubai, etc…) for other places where normal people can't afford to live and you'll see increased crime and street violence combined with economic and political instability. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Are you ready for Red-Shirts, serious gangs, riots, kidnappings, private guards escorting kids to school, and cartels in Vancouver? There are cities all over the world that have proven this reality and outcome. Sitting and bitching in ignorance in of this age-old reality won't do you (or your children) any good. Letting them eat cake didn't help Marie.

  • Ulsterman

    Jack NoSourGrapes: Well Jack, i teach the kids of homeowners in Burnaby, a place where i cannot buy a SFH to raise my own family. I'm hardly asking for the world am I? Live 15km from the downtown! What will these people do when us "sour grapes" types say fuck you and move elsewhere. Who will serve the landed gentry their frappuccinos and their yoga pants?

  • Ulsterman

    OK what i was trying to say before the Nanny State deleted my comment was what are the Jack NoSourGrapes type going to do when the people that serve the landed gentry their frappuccinos just give up and leave. Yes, i realise there will always be a supply of service workers, but his "sour grapes" reference made me think of Maria Antionette's "Let them eat cake!"

    Careful Jack, those plebes may just rise up and bite!

  • Decker

    Vancouver has become a money dump for international people looking for a place to "park" their cash & hope for good returns. To discourage ownership by non-Canadians AND non full-time residents property taxes for those people should be at least 10 times the normal rate that Canadian residents pay. This extra tax revenue should be used to fund affordable housing for low and medium income Vancouverites. This is not a new idea, Florida taxes out-of-town owners at much higher rate than residents. It's been done in Europe as well.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/novagardener novagardener

    As well as PEI & NS. I don't know, however, what the percentage difference is.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

    You have to love life in the Maritimes (the other coast). You can live on a small acreage with a modest bungalow and RETIRE here for the price of a benchmark house in West Vancouver. Sure, if you work you won't make as much but you won't need as much either.

    What will happen to the holders of these million dollar mortgages when interest rates go back up to historical norms? Think of Calgary and the dollar dealers back in the early 1980s. You had to give a house away to get rid of it.

    Try moving way east, it's a lifestyle decision and you will sleep soundly at night.

    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

    • John D

      Why do you want those Vancouverites coming and raising your prices?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

        Not really. But hey, if they want to come and spread a bit of the wealth, I'm sure there are people down here that would welcome them with open arms….and bank accounts.

  • hosertohoosier

    I think the real question everybody should ask is: what are the fundamentals, and do they justify housing prices as high as they are. What long-term factors determine the demand for houses? Presumably population growth and economic growth are the big ones. Do those numbers justify what is happening in Vancouver? If not, you probably have a lot of people buying insanely expensive houses with the expectation that those houses will increase in value, perhaps significantly, in the near future.

    There are some reasons to expect real estate to be expensive in Vancouver – namely immigration and climate. Moreover, Canada doesn't have the policies that artificially inflate the real estate market. They have mortgage interest deductibility and tax credits for first time home-buyers down here, which encourage people to invest more in real estate (which is a horrible thing – it inflates the price of houses, and takes investment dollars away from companies that conduct research and contribute to a long-term improvement in our economic well-being).

  • http://www.stateofthecity.ca Brian

    It's fair to say there's a risk of a bubble, at least (I personally think it IS a bubble rather than the mere risk of one, but whatever).

    So the second question is, are the BC, Vancouver and area or federal governments doing anything policywise to prepare for the tax issues, the capitalization issues, the mortgage foreclosure issues, for when it inevitably pops? Or are they going to be as blind and surprised as the Americans, two full years after the Americans taught us to keep our eyes open?

    • Orson Bean

      Yeah, and all the greedy pigs who get creamed when this thing blows up will be screaming for a government bailout. Just wait.

  • meany

    Yes. Long ago I learned when I don't understand it, don't invest in it. That simple logic has served me well in avoiding the madness of the dot com booms and the it's what has kept me out of the Vancouver real estate market.

    Bottom line, Vancouver and Windsor have approximately the same levels of median household income. In Windsor you can buy a 4000sqft house for 250k, in Vancouver that house would cost 3-4million (maybe more). Not to say Windsor is as nice as Vancouver (clearly it is not) but this isn't about niceness, or beauty, or mountains. It's about MONEY.

    Housing costs 9.8 times annual gross income now? Sorry, but that is ABSURD!!! Anyone who thinks these prices can be maintained are dreaming. To me it seems like the Canadian banks are just peddling these mortgages out because the CMHC will just insure them all. It's not the exact same blueprint as the US crisis (Mortgage originator -> investment bank CDO buys it and assumes risk -> rating agency AAA rating -> sold to CDO fund to risk averse investor who ends up taking the risk and holding the bag), but quite similar (Canadian bank originator takes the risk -> insurance from government CMHC, who effectively assumes all the risk). In both cases, the guys making the loans didn't really give a damn about the quality of the loan, because the risk of default was always peddled off to someone else. In the US case, to some poor schmuck in Germany or Japan who thought they were buying some AAA paper. In Canada, to the stupid taxpayer who will insure anything.

    This will NOT end well.

  • meany

    Oh and another thing, the immutable law or real estate rent and buying prices: Buy when the ratio is 10, sell when the ratio is 20.

    What's it in Vancouver? 25? 30? 35 in some neighborhoods? What those numbers tell you is people are buying not based on yield, but based on pure capital appreciation. You know why the US credit crisis started? Because Moody's, S&P, and Fitch all didn't take into account the possibility of a decline in housing prices into their models.

    Clearly, Canadians aren't taking that into account either, otherwise they would NEVER buy a place for 500k that they could only rent for $1400, that is crazy insane from a pure dollars and cents point of view. Unless real estate prices always go UP UP UP, BUY NOW or your miss out forever, etc.

    • Orson Bean

      That's an excellent point about rental yields vs. capital appreciation. I see it happening first-hand in Vancouver. Nobody really talks about rental yield. It's like in the dotcom boom, when everybody forgot about these things called "dividends". Remember how that ended?

  • http://vreaa.wordpress.com/ vreaa

    Many thanks to the author for mention of our website, the Vancouver Real Estate Anecdote Archive.
    We aim to document the impact of the Vancouver RE Boom (and the inevitable coming Bust) on individuals, families and our society, by archiving personal anecdotes regarding the RE market.
    We invite you to visit the site, and to submit an illustrative story if you have one.

    Sincerely,
    vreaa
    (vancouver real estate anecdote archivist)

  • Jim

    There may be no logic, but here's a fun way to experience the history of house prices in Vancouver: As a roller coaster! http://vancouvercondo.info/coaster

    This isn't the first time there's been a housing bubble in Vancouver.

  • Foresight

    My wife and I live in Vancouver and earn $160K+ combined. I believe this puts in the top 5% of Canadian incomes. And, as top 5% earners, we can't afford to buy a house in the city in which we live. Does this make any sense? About as much as it does that realtors in Vancouver are making $30K+ in commissions on their sales of each "avg" house, I guess.

    This market is grossly out of alignment.

    It's being held together by easy to obtain mortagages, cheap interest, undeclared basement suite income and grow-ops. And all those who should be regulating any of it, are simply looking the other way. Afterall, why wouldn't they, when their own homes are going up $100K in value/year?

    The 'normal' long term trend price of a home in Vancouver is around $550K. Almost half what it is currently. If this bubble of easy & illegal money ever does pop, expect a 30-50% drop in home prices.

  • Gill

    None of these homes are "single family". My "south asian" co-worker just custom built his home in east vancouver and he has around 15 people living in it. He tells me that the whole block is like that, darn near impossible to find parking. Imaging 15 people financing a home, drives prices up. The city should raid these homes and make them pay extra property taxes or kick out half the people living in it.

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