Don’t joke in Little Stasi-on-Avon

MARK STEYN: Britons have shown a surprising enthusiasm for informing on their fellow citizens

by Mark Steyn on Thursday, April 22, 2010 7:45am - 213 Comments

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Not long after the fall of the Iron Curtain, I chanced to be in Hungary making a TV film co-produced by the BBC and MTV. Not the MTV of caterwauling rockers but MTV as in “Magyar Televízió”—their version of the CBC, although obviously nowhere near as monolithically left-wing. We spent the first few days in Budapest meeting our local contacts—producers, fixers, interviewees, all of whom were urbane Mitteleuropean charmers, and delightful company. We’d then go on to the next meeting, at which we’d be assured by György that, while József may seem urbane and charming on the surface, he’d spent the previous 30 years as an informant for the Ministry of the Interior. Moving on to our appointment with Gábor, we’d be told that it was the eminently civilized and amusing György who’d been the state informer for the past several decades. Needless to say, Viktor had much the same to say about Gábor, and Imre about Viktor.

The BBC lads found this most disquieting. They had no objection to commies per se, being mostly the usual bunch of university Trots and Marxists themselves. But they disliked the idea of snitches, of never being able to be sure whether your neighbour or workmate wasn’t sneaking to the authorities on your every casual aside. It offended against their sense of fair play; it wasn’t cricket. I took a more relaxed view, having been on the receiving end of the famous British sense of fair play, not least in my dealings with the duplicitous bastards at the BBC. I figured sure, Gábor and Viktor and József and Imre and György and pretty much everyone else we ran into in that post-Soviet spring doubtless had their dark secrets, but under a totalitarian regime the state can apply all kinds of pressure those of us in free societies can scarce imagine. Who are we to judge?

Less than two decades later, something very odd has happened. The United Kingdom is not (yet) a totalitarian regime, yet huge numbers of Britons have in effect signed on as informers to a politically correct Stasi, and with far greater enthusiasm than Gábor and György ever did. Last year, David Booker was suspended from his job at a hostel for the homeless in Southampton after a late-night chat with a colleague, Fiona Vardy, in which he happened to reveal that he did not believe in same-sex marriage or in vicars being allowed to wed their gay partners. Miss Vardy raised no objection at the time, but the following day mentioned the conversation to her superiors. They immediately suspended Mr. Booker from his job, and then announced that “this action has been taken to safeguard both residents and staff.”

That’s good to know, isn’t it? The hostel is run by the Society of St. James, which comes under the Church of England, which in theory holds exactly the same views on homosexuality as Mr. Booker. But, if in doubt, suspend. Six weeks ago, Roy Amor, a medical technician who made prosthetics for a company called Opcare, glanced out of the window at their offices at Withington Community Hospital, and saw some British immigration officials outside. “You better hide,” he said to his black colleague, a close friend of both Mr. Amor and his wife. Not the greatest joke in the world, but the pal wasn’t offended, laughed it off as a bit of office banter, and they both got on with their work. It was another colleague who overheard the jest and filed a formal complaint reporting Mr. Amor for “racism.” He was suspended from his job. Five days later, he received an email from the company notifying him of the disciplinary investigation and inviting him to expand on the initial statement he had made about the incident. Mr. Amor had worked in the prosthetics unit at Withington for 30 years until he made his career-detonating joke. That afternoon he stepped outside his house and shot himself in the head. The black “victim” of his “racism” attended the funeral, as did other friends. It is not known whether the creep who reported the racist incident did, nor whether the management who opened the (presumably still ongoing) investigation troubled themselves to pay their respects to an employee with three decades of service.

“You better hide, mate.” What can we do to show racists like the late Roy Amor that they won’t be tolerated in our tolerant society? Well, we can take early action. A couple of years back, 14-year-old Codie Stott asked her teacher at Harrop Fold High School if she could sit with another group to do her science project as in hers the other five girls all spoke Urdu and she didn’t understand what they were saying. The teacher called the police, who took her to the station, photographed her, fingerprinted her, took DNA samples, removed her jewellery and shoelaces, put her in a cell for 3½ hours, and questioned her on suspicion of committing a Section Five “racial public order offence.” “An allegation of a serious nature was made concerning a racially motivated remark,” declared the headmaster Antony Edkins. The school would “not stand for racism in any form.” In a statement, Greater Manchester Police said they took “hate crime” very seriously, and their treatment of Miss Stott was in line with “normal procedure.”

So what can we do to show racists like young Miss Codie Stott that racist remarks on the linguistic preferences of members of her school science project will bring the full force of the otherwise somnolent constabulary of Her Majesty’s crime-ridden realm crashing down on her? Well, obviously, we need to start the Racism Watch far earlier. The government-funded National Children’s Bureau has urged nursery teachers and daycare supervisors to record and report every racist utterance of toddlers as young as three.

Like what?

Well, for example, if children “react negatively to a culinary tradition other than their own by saying ‘Yuk,’ ” that could be a clear sign that they’ll grow up to make racist immigration gags like the late Roy Amor’s. If we get all their names in a big government database by pre-kindergarten, it’ll be much easier to keep tabs on them for the four or five decades until we drive them to suicide.

My British friends say of Mr. Amor, “Well, obviously, he was a little disturbed, he overreacted.” No, it’s the system that’s disturbed. Look at it from his point of view: you’ve worked hard, been a model employee, for 30 years—and suddenly it’s all over because of a single joke that didn’t offend your black friend but only the white snitch who decided to get offended on hisbehalf. It wasn’t Roy Amor who overreacted.

“It’s an enormous tragedy and we are all in mourning,” said Opcare’s chief executive. But actually Roy blowing his head off works out pretty well from the company’s point of view. They could have dismissed the racism complaint as a lot of hooey, but then who’s to say the aggrieved complainant might not report them for “creating a racist work environment”? So they suspended Roy, investigated Roy, and probably would have fired Roy. And then he might have sued for wrongful dismissal and, even though no contemporary jurist would find in favour of such an obvious racist, just fighting the suit would rack up a six-figure legal bill. All in all, suicide’s the most cost-effective option. Maybe more racist employees might consider it.

Earlier this month, Matthew Parris, a very squishy Tory gay, was called up by the BBC, Sky News, Channel 4 and many others anxious to send TV and radio crews round to his country place to record his reaction to a front-page lead in the Observer: “Secret Tape Reveals Tory Backing for Ban on Gays.” As it turned out, the “ban on gays” was a bit oversold: the shadow home secretary had been musing on distinctions in public accommodation between running a hotel on the High Street and a B & B out of your own home. Mr. Parris had no particular views on that one way or the other, but the “secret tape” bit prompted the following:

“There was also something unpleasantly Orwellian in the lip-smacking way in which my informants were telling me how Mr. Grayling had been recorded—caught—expressing his opinion. That Nineteen Eighty-Four feeling was reflected, too, in the un-self-aware failure of irony with which an Observer journalist referred to the view that Britain should not ‘tolerate’ (his word) intolerance. Burn the bigots! To the tumbrels with zealots! Crack down on narrow-mindedness! No to the naysayers!”

Droll, and very British—or it used to be. But in Little Stasi-on-Avon, where you can’t make a joke in private conversation or say “Yuk!” in the nursery school lunch hour, the words of the French philosopher Alain Finkielkraut seem more pertinent: “The lofty idea of ‘the war on racism’ is gradually turning into a hideously false ideology,” he said in 2005. “And this anti-racism will be for the 21st century what Communism was for the 20th century: a source of violence.”

I think back to those weeks in Budapest, and similar conversations in Berlin, Prague and Bucharest, and I wonder whatever happened to that British sense of fair play.
But then, I suppose, the very concept is racist.

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  • Bill Gibbons

    having emigrated from the UK (just before it became a police state under Labour), I had the same problem using words out of context here in Canada. How was I supposed to know that a "fag" wasn't a cigarette over here? And I didn't know the receptionist at our vacation hotel would misunderstand me when I ask here to "knock me up in the morning?" of course, I almost got arrested when I asked the delivery man if I could "wog his pencil" for a minute.

    But now, I am free to make as many politically incorrect jokes and comments as I like in the office. Why? because I work for myself! And I only hire like-minded people. You won't believe the jokes that fly around in here!

  • http://al-terity.blogspot.com/ Alterity

    Orwell would be turning in his grave. Great article, thanks.

  • Ing

    David V is mistaken, as the problem is with him. The Daily Mail no doubt can, and should, come up with far more of these stories: no doubt there are oodles of them. The issue is not whether "large numbers" of Brits "get away with" saying racist sexist and homophobic jokes (which these incidents were not, contrary to what David implies) without bureaucratic punishments.

    The issue is that no bureaucrats should have the right to issue these punishments at all.

    Your country is in grave danger from within, Brits, as are ours.
    Produce fewer "David V"s and "Antony Edkins" types, and millions more Mark Steyns. Stat.

  • blaine

    that's not the point, david v:____millions of canadians may well never have to deal with the grotesquerie that is the canadian human rights commission – but if even a few of us suffer at their hands, all of us are imperiled because all of our rights are imperiled. Your logic is akin to saying that, since only some men are wrongfully convicted of sexual assault, it is no bother for the rest of us because the rest of us do not have to worry about it. Alas, if there is even one single injustice perpetrated against a private citizen by the long arm of the state, the basic rights and liberties we would all like to take for granted in a free society are compromised.

  • Buckeye Abroad

    Orwellian indeed. I have spent alot of time in the UK on business and over the decade the amount of local people I met who informed me they were “packing it in and leaving for good” was astounding. Not just educated career people, but taxi drivers, truckers… etc.. all saying the same thing. “The country has gone to sh*t.” Seeing where the current US leadership is taking my homeland, its not far behind.

  • Adam

    One cannot mention lefty rat culture without admitting that McCarthyism existed. Many lives were destroyed by anti-'commie' hysteria and tattling, often–like the Stalinist purges–because someone wanted to discredit a rival. Something as simple as supporting desegregation, or a strike got one on the Red List, even here in Canada. That old conservative hero (and pot-smoking fruit-fly) William F. Buckley Jr. was also part of the which-hunting lynch mob of the era. Both Senator McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover were gay, and addicts (booze and gambling, respectively), which also makes much of this very uncomfortable for today's religion-friendly right. Lefties also don't want to acknowledge the depth of Commie and Christian Socialist (e.g., Douglas and Woodsworth, both bible-thumpers) homophobia, in the 1950s-60s. Like The NKVD, Stasi and, yes, latter-day PC social activists, McCarthy, Hoover and their rotten, Mafia-blackmailed friends deserve to be tossed into the cesspool of history.

  • Ted

    To quote Nathan Fillion in "Slither," "That is some seriously
    f**ked up sh*t. "
    I agree with Drew and I have been thinking the same thing.
    As an American and student of the ETO in the 40s, what was the point? They survived the blitz just to surrender to a fifth column? I doubt that even Hitler would have done to the Brits what the headchoppers have planned.

  • Mark

    "Law Enforcement" enables this swill. How long do you think this would last without them standing there backing up these filthy maggots?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Nicely handled.

    Except that while a blowhard and crank at times, he WAS right, and this was backed up later in those files that pop up hither and yonder about people's lives from those times. More likely the issue with unions and other forms of social activisms was, as it is today, not so much evil in and of itself, but the smoke signals of feigned "solidarity" that the Communists used to preach whenever trouble or some left wing advocacy cropped up. Likewise today if there's student rioting in the streets of Paris, a teacher of public employee strike–whatever it is that is dependent in part on the machinations of tax money and bigger government–the Marxists over at L'humanite was pledge "solidarity" with whomever was causing the ruckus.

    Fair or not, where there's smoke there's often a fire.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Nicely handled.

    Except that while a blowhard and crank at times, he WAS right, and this was backed up later in those files that pop up hither and yonder about people's lives from those times. More likely the issue with unions and other forms of social activisms was, as it is today, not so much evil in and of itself, but the smoke signals of feigned "solidarity" that the Communists used to preach whenever trouble or some left wing advocacy cropped up. Likewise today if there's student rioting in the streets of Paris, a teacher of public employee strike–whatever it is that is dependent in part on the machinations of tax money and bigger government–the Marxists over at L'humanite will pledge "solidarity" with whomever was causing the ruckus.

    Fair or not, where there's smoke there's often a fire.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Nicely done, except that McCarthy, while considered a blowhard and an embarrassment to the finer sensibilities of the effete highbrows, was right in many of his assertions about communists in government, media, and the arts.

    He overdid it sometimes, as does anyone on a witch-hunt mission, but unfortunately per the records now coming to light and from revelations from guys like Alger Hiss, he was on the spot.

    Perhaps the reason that many union activists, desegregationists, and other social activist types got inadvertently caught up in the fray was that communists had this knack of occasionally spilling the beans by offering "solidarity" with such groups. Which is actually laughable especially in those days, as some of your most stanch anti-communists were held union cards among the rank and file. But the leadership? That's another matter. But in any case that's how they operated. Communists would attach themselves to many different groups that smelled of potentional trouble in the streets or blood in the water, in order to try and keep the culture on a high boil.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Likewise from time to time when teachers, or unions, or public workers, or other functionaries of the state or otherwise dependent on public money and having some stake in Bigger Government hit the streets to protest, or when even just "anti-globalist" Eco-brats smash Starbucks windows every time bankers come to town for a meeting, one can see, say, communist outfits like L'Humanite offering "solidarity" with whatever group is making the most ruckus.

    Where there's smoke, there's quite often a nice little fire going. Crude, but say it ain't so. This is what McCarthy and his allies knew as well as J.E. Hoover.

  • NB.

    "McCarthy, Hoover and their rotten, Mafia-blackmailed friends" have been tossed into historry, Adam. Why do we need to bring them up with regards to current day informers? The issues Steyn raises don't have anything to do with balancing right-wing and left-wing excesses. They are about Freedom of Speech in the here and now.

  • hitnrun

    I'm not aware of any modern group that venerates Hoover or McCarthy except to point out, of course, that McCarthy was right. Steyn wrote about this a few years ago:
    http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/library/wf-101…

    It's also worth pointing out that, in those days, being a "Communist" didn't mean you wore Che T-Shirts and smoked pot. It meant you were actively, deliberately engaged in – or supported with money – the overthrow of the nation you lived in or its economy, as part of the great quasi-eschatological "historical forces."

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/minaka minaka

    The author of the best researched book on McCarthy (Russian Venona files and FBI files declassified recently after 50 years) has offered a rich reward to anyone with proof of a single case where someone was harmed by wrongly being accused by McCarthy of being a communist. No one has collected. (Hint, the Hollywood black list had nothing to do with Senator McCarthy). See "Blacklisted by History" by M. Stanton Evans.

    This should be written up in journals as the illustrative case of "killing the messenger i.e. McCarthy" to prevent the truthful message from getting through, that the Roosevelt administration was riddled with communists to the highest levels. It is a leftist meme so ubiquitous and ingrained that it gets quoted uncritically even by otherwise well informed conservatives.

  • http://www.nemw.net David

    You are obviously a gay Communist Jew. McCarthy was right, and had the Jews not destroyed him, he could have saved the US.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    My adopted brother's "mum" turned out to be a Brit, and she once said something very similar as her explanation for coming to America.

    What was once the proudest and freest nation on Earth sold it's freedom for free dentures.

    …and the teeth are quite often still bad…

  • Bas

    The bottom line of this story is the rise and decline of a empire.
    Men promoted on top are very scary that better will rise, and make sure something other do.
    And will go to any length to to this.
    Take the car and finance industry, better the whole of America, as a example.
    The founders will have never behaved as the promoted to handle difficulties.
    It is nature at work in a birth and death design.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/apeteryx apeteryx

    Yep, and we have tons of them in NZL.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/WarrenZ WarrenZ

    England has become a sick twisted putrid vile vomit inducing Orwellian nation and the people of that once great nation seem to be perfectly happy with it. I mean look whose ahead in the election. Even the leader of the so called Conservative party is another bloody socialist. Canada should completely disassociate itself from that disgusting country including removing the queen (as much as I admire her) from our money.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Faustino Faustino

    The idea of England was a gift to humanity. I hate to see the country that produced it self-destruct. I love Anglo culture. I love Austen (my daughter is named Lizzy), and Shakespeare and Oscar Wilde and Elizabeth I and Monty Python and Camelot and the Magna Carta and Churchill and Henry V and Henry Higgins. How can such a magnificent culture just drift away. But when I think of Prince Charles and his Islamic garden I just shudder with revulsion at his cravenness. The Church of England is a shell. At one time it's evangelical side brought the Gospel to the world and put and end to the slave trade in the West. This was a good civilization. Right now in my head I am humming 'Rule Brittania! Brittania Rules the Waves' and feeling very sad.

  • Archie

    Er, nice sentiments, Faustino but it's actually "BRITONS never, never, ever ……………….etc.!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Faustino Faustino

    Your right, sorry.

  • Yuri

    Well, just a couple of weeks ago Steyn wrote about our BC Human Right Tribunal going after the comedian Guy Earle because of his "allegedly" homophobic joke to put down a heckler. He was denounced by the heckler and spent three years in a court battle and now faces $ 20,000 in punitive damages.

    Is this much better than in England? I certainly don't think so.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Faustino Faustino

    We could use more 'cranks' like him.

  • Adam

    Latter-day conservatives don't like to admit that the Reagan Administration backed the Mujahedin. When pressed, they claim that those crazy Qur'an-thumpers were 'freedom fighters', battling the evil Commies. Yeah, right–fighting against tyranny, like bans on burqas, pederasty and arranged marriages. Later, two Mujahedin 'freedom fighters' fought over the rights to the backside of a preteen boy, in a market, causing massive collateral casualties. This event precipitated the takeover of the country by Mullah Omar's Taliban faction…and we all know what happened next.

    Interestingly, modern Commies think that fighting religious whackos in Afghanistan is a BAD idea. The language used by lefty anti-war activists is almost verbatim what Alzheimer's in Chief used to denounce Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Clearly, both the left and right have a thing for stuffing past positions and actions into the ol' Memory Hole.

  • Adam

    'Ratting' on your co-worker–so you can get his job–is much the same thing: whether it's 'commie', or 'racist'/'homophobic'/'sexist' sympathies you can stick him with. McCarthy was a boozy old homo and Barbara Hall is a blowsy old bag; both ma[d/k]e their careers out of wrecking people's lives, chasing fictions. There was no commie threat in the U.S., but a very real organised crime problem–horseracing money and silence about J. Edgar's bum chum kept the Feds from looking into Mafia activities. Up here, the RCMP kept tabs on the CCF/NDP, when there was a serious, seditious threat (violent Quebecois separatism) brewing. Now, 'diversity'-concious xenophiles in the HRCs won't touch hate libel and sexism, homophobia in the Muslim, Sikh and Hindu communities. The right is guilty of throwing stones when they've sinned.

  • Adam

    Not one to defend the Democrats, but didn't Tricky Dick open relations with the brutal, racist, Stalinist dictatorship known as the PRC? And didn't Mr 'Mommy Poopy Pants' Reagan throw the U.S. into a staggering cycle of PRC-financed debt?

  • Adam

    The KKK also offered 'solidarity' with many Southern Democrats (and a few Republican. The KKK is/was a dangerous, armed, seditious (i.e., the Civil War, anyone?) group, practising terrorism and murder. Not a peep from people like McCarthy (swimming in his own vomit), or Buckley (toking up offshore). To reiterate: THE KKK WERE A DANGER TO NATIONAL SECURITY! The same could be said for organised crime groups. Yet zero enthusiasm for going after these people–murderers and terrorists.

    It's also interesting to note that, after Hoover the 'Hoover' croaked, there was a nasty purge of gays from the FBI. A severe culture of homophobia in the FBI lasted until fairly recently. This may have been lingering resentment against the old, fat fudgepacker, or fear of the circle he'd appointed within the agency (Republican resentment against Mark Felt's friends).

  • Adam

    Want another McCarthy? Go to a gay bar–look for the old guy with a faltering career and liver.

  • Adam

    O, I forgot: Google Roy Ashburn–perfect Sen. Joe replacement.

  • Adam

    People got on the pinko-list for things like joining the wrong union (i.e., not the mafia-sanctioned ones), or even being involved in antisegregationist movements. The silliest examples, up here, were the RCMP snooping on the NDP, as well as things like the Padlock Act. And, again, the KKK were a SEDITIOUS, TERRORIST GROUP, yet very little in the way of resources were spent on trying to eliminate them.

    A famous pothead was Wm. F[ruitfly] Buckley, who famously scored pot, took his yacht offshore and toked up. He claimed that, by getting high outside U.S. territorial limits, he wasn't breaking the law…yet it never occured to Mr Ivy League genius that he'd already BROKEN the law, by buying and posessing the stuff in the States.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Yes, in a cynical move to play the China Card, we made a pragmatic move of the type that liberals today would call "engagement" or perhaps they prefer the more highbrow sounding "rapproachment", etc.

    Many strategic moves are like that, just like the temporal alignment by FDR to "Uncle Joe" for the sheer reason that Joe was tying up about 110 German divisions over on the Eastern Front.

    One of those areas where we get to snarl at politicians from the safe distance of the decades and devoid of context.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    There are men who've skinned and gutted teen girls in the Lowcountry of South Carolina, most of the gals being white. Horrid as that is, it is unlikely that serial killers like the pathetic "Pee Wee Gaskins" (as he was called) was a danger to the overall commonweal.

    Sorry, but international Communism had more backing and money and interconnectivity.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Golly Gee Wilkers then! Guess that means there is partiality of the Hooverites to redneck racism in the Deep South!

    Sounds like I'm just a-talkin' away to Rachel Maddow here for all the connections made. Or would that be the insightful Keith Olbermann?

    Actually, I've supposed that among those Hooverites peeping in on the CONTEXT OF THE COLD WAR and the fact that, pace the white sheets with eye holes in them, it seems the Soviets by this time had actually amassed some rather nasty weapons that put the joke to the shotguns of the KKK.

    And so the interconnectedness of the world front for Communism (something that redneck chawchewers did not have overseas on their account, not even nationwide, as their phenomenon was mostly confined to Deep South political corridors) came to the attention in a more, shall we say, consternating manner than men who might've been murderers and sadistic to blacks but not dangerous to the Republic per se. Most unlikely.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Not sure what you mean by "admit." What the HELL are you saying? Admit? Or go with someone else's version of history in order to make some thin liberal talking point?

    As many have explained the matter, and of course plainly admitting that the very term "Freedom Fighter" was perhaps a little over the top, it was a strategic decision to support a local interest–however imperfect, as we all know–that had a COALITION of differing groups among them against the Soviets. Who comparitively for all their destruction were seen as far worse. Sometimes nations need need have Simon purity to be defended in some contexts. The former group of Muj consisted of men who in some cases were very unpleasant, yes. But many were more secular in their approach, more along the lines of what USED to be (before the radical strains of Islam got nicely funded by Saudi money) more along the lines of Malaysian Islam. The notion being that it was better to thwart Soviet adventurism and what was undeniably a blood purge and utter agony in Afghanistan. Sometimes you roll dice on the big tables of international intrigue and you lose. We did indeed support unpleasant men like Gulbidin Heykmayer.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Though, the tall tales of CIA "training" of bin Laden are way off the mark, as Richard Miniter explained: First, these jackals needed no training. They were born for havoc and death. Our primary role was immerserating the USSR with some really neat toys like Stinger missiles. Second, bin Laden and his crew didn't do much field work at the time, staying hovelled and holed up in the safety of other areas away from direct conflict. He'd have been less than an obvious choice. Third, he and his gang were known then to be violently anti-American, and any CIA operative who approached him and got discovered as an American would have had his bowels and head removed and placed on sticks.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    As to modern Commies disdaining the Sons of Allah? Well, so you think. depends on which Commie Lands get hit. The Russians have taken up the mantle of fighting the rather nasty Chechen version of the Sons of Allah. But again strategy here trumps ideology: Meaning that for the purposes of making the Muslim demographic issue someone else's problem more so than their own (which many nations are prone to do) the Russians as well as the Chinese have in their minds much to gain by forestalling what can only be a few decades away from more serious demographic issues with the same loonies.

    So be patient. Their day will come.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Unless by "Modern Commies" perhaps you mean to say some stateside. If so, then YES, I'd agree. Then, as now, the Far Left decided that whatever the sins of the headhunters, gal stoners, and violations of the backsides of boys, the best policy for America is to just grin and bear the hits from the Sons of Allah, despite all the Gore-funk vids of screaming victims, the human rights faux pas against females, and all the rest. All on behalf of multi-culti delusions that we really have no enemies–just peaceful men who've been misunderstood and who've we not met on Facebook yet.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    I take it then that the reminders of "context" is now a synonymn for "stone tossing" in Websters.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    Perhaps very little was spent, and yet I don't hear much about them anymore. Meanwhile, Communism and radical Leftism are resurgent the globe over.

    As to Buckly, I'm not sure what his connection is to all this, but his name is getting lots of free advertising.

  • Adam

    Sodomy Arserapia ALWAYS funded Salafism, including the Salafi mosques that've popped up like Phallaceae all over the West. Whatever you thought of the USSR, you can't pretend that propping up the rotten Islamic, feudal culture was better than allowing Godless horrors like schooling for women to continue. Women and others from Afghanistan warned everyone who would listen about how dangerous and vile the Mujahedin were. 'Unpleasant'?! You mean, pederasts with guns. By claiming that there were 'secular' Mujahedin, you're acting the same part of 'dhimmwit' that lefties now do, when they defend 'moderate' Islam. Read the slobbering pro-Mujahedin propaganda in '80s National Reviews and puke, not to mention garbage put out by 'libera' Hollywood (that 'Rambutt' movie, &c.). Ronnie supported those boy-raping ragheads, simply to curry favour with the Saudis. If the U.S. government truly was so hell-bent on fighting 'communism', they wouldn't've sold the PRC all those T-Bills.

  • Adam

    The Russkies are, at least, sensible about this. Fuel-air bombs and burying Mujahedin corpses in pig carcasses are better ways to deal with crazy Qur'an-thumpers than kicking your shoes off at mosques (a la Dubya). We could at least padlock Salafi mosques, deport Imams and threaten to flatten the Ka'aba with a nuke.

  • Adam

    I doubt Richard Nixon opened relations with China, in the 'national interest'. Most likely, he did it for party donors, who got access to a huge market, as well as cheap (and slave) labour. (Many in the business community admitted as much.) This wasn't some historian's chessboard. Everyone else has to live with the consequences of a PRC 'engaged' with the world market. Of course, he helped transform a racist, imperialist (East Turkestan, Tibet), murderous COMMUNIST despotic state into a racist, imperialist, murderous CORPORATIST (free-market-fascist) despotic state, so he deserves some credit, I guess. Oh–and he got to nail a hot, young Dianne Sawyer, when she was a White House reporter.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    The very existence of the old USSR and its satellite nations was rationale enough to thwart them, even if modern Lefties are mulishly stubborn about a world of few alternatives to their methodology of bringing "The Vote" to females. I take it as read there's more than one way to get to that lofty goal–and it need not be fuel air bombs nor bombs disguised as toys that merely left kids armless. But this is well known, so I'll not beat that mule again.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    We don't need to read NR. The agony of the region affected by the Soviets was well known at the time. Only the true nutcase hippies dancing in the streets like smelly dogs twirling on short leashes ever tried to justify or at least mollify that occupation with garbage about "rights" and–that while unpleasant–the Soviets were the proximate answer to Islamist ill-treatment of women and children, etc. Sort of a quirky way to see things, chief. Even IF we could've polished off the old crystal ball and could see the future, I take it as read also that for the nifty notion of using the Soviets (via proxy) quelling Islamist dissent being bandied about now would only (if at ALL?) worked if they had killed EVERY living thing in the borders of what you and I call Afghanistan. People might complain about OUR presence there as well, but we're not quite as nasty, and in fact veer to the other extreme of engagement to the point where every shot is fairly much cleared through a bureaucratic chain-of-command type apparatus.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    However, Edward Giradet's Afghanistan: The Soviet War will do nicely to thwart the historical revisionism of the Soviets bringing highbrow art and culture and female suffrage (though SUFFERING is another matter) to the backwater ways of Afghanistan.

    Indeed, it's an interesting historical take at that you have here. The Left stops at nothing in plain site of books like the above.

    So let's see here: The proximate cause for the rise of Islamism has NOTHING to do with sheer weight of demographic change over the last 30 years since Jimmy Carter coddled the Sons of Allah and was active in getting rid of the more secularist regime in the Shah's Iran, due to all our allies needing to have Simon purity per the advice of his A-team intellectuals of Change. Or that the Reaganite "curry" of favor was not already being done with the trillions our nation gave Saudia Arabia in oil revenue, or for that matter just plain conflict of ideology.

    Nay, say today's leftists, we aided them too much and should've just let the Soviet wack them a good time or two, eh?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    In sum, we get to keep plopping those War is NOT the Answer bumper stickers on the backs of Priuses and smirk at what might've been a better, Sons of Allah-free world if only we'd let others do the "wet work" for us, and bring female liberation and honor–via fuel air bombs and those handy Soviet-made poppers designed to look like toys that merely take children's hands off. Nice touch. Oh, and we've not even gotten into Soviet adventurism in the region that was halted.

    So, in sum: Others will go to war using the pamphleteering of Lenin and Marx–so WE don't have to. No matter how murderous the use of proxy here, eh?
    Of course. How could we have missed that? Golly.

    But while I'm not totally opposed to proxy warfare, I think the Soviets would've been a little over the top for a new "ally" in the general neighborhood. And a little too close for comfort on some accounts.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    I'd say Bush's response, to judge from all the hippy dippy bumper stickers that are somewhat more rare these days now that the baton has been handed over for two major wars, was quite a bit more than visiting mosques. Not the best move, I'd agree. But of course a little more than historical revisionism to say it was only that.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Wakefield Wakefield Tolbert

    I'm afraid I'll be taking your honorable word on that account, Adam.

  • http://www.wakepedia.blogspot.com Wakefield Tolbert

    It could be that China was partially opened in order to get more gee-gaws and cheap clothing imported from China, so that you can pay, say 10 bucks for a half-decent shirt rather than 110 USD, but I doubt the rest came in the from of some conspiratorial mode to weaken the dollar or have China buy up much of US debt. That's the fault of the idiot pols who came in later and decided that per the poofy little legacy of Lord Keynes, there's just gosh-darn NUTHIN' to be a-worrying about in multitrillion dollar debt.

    But beyond this, I'll be somewhat more trusting of Harvard historian and Russian history expert Richard Pipes, who placed the issue nicely when he mentioned that this was really a type of raproachment, or coming to an understand with a large and booming nation that now had nuclear weapons. Either that, or just go ahead and figtht them to death over those dandy Little Red Books that liberals like Anita Dunn admire so much.

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