Beyond The Commons

Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

The Commons: Your deferential silence is appreciated

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, May 4, 2010 6:54pm - 263 Comments

The Scene. Bob Rae watched the Speaker for his cue and then, when called upon, checked his tie and stood to face the government side.

“Mr. Speaker, I am going to have to try to find the words to ask this question,” he began. “Yesterday, Senator Ruth gave perhaps the pithiest, sharpest description one can imagine of Conservative political policy that we have all heard in a long time.”

This was perhaps not quite a compliment.

“Her advice to groups that are criticizing the government or that have an issue with the government or might want to raise the issue was, I am not going to quote entirely, quite simply,” he continued, turning to the Speaker with a somewhat apologetic look on his face, “Shut the ‘F’ up.”

You can for yourself imagine what the “F” here represents. We at this demure publication do not make a habit of printing the word, so I can only tell you that it begins with an F and that after that come three letters I can only represent with dashes.

“This is what has come to the current government,” Mr. Rae lamented. “This is a culture of intimidation that has now been established by the Conservative Party: If someone has a disagreement with the government, just shut the F up.”

Here then came the polite and proper and restrained Transport Minister John Baird to respond. “Mr. Speaker,” he reported, “obviously that type of language is completely unacceptable.”

Obviously.

The language in this case is Nancy Ruth’s, the Conservative senator who, yesterday, advised those unhappy with the government’s approach to aiding maternal health worldwide that they best “shut the f— up,” lest they inspire further backlash. Here was fear masquerading as friendly advice. Cynicism passed off as political cunning.

Here, most conveniently, were four words to define this time in Ottawa. Never mind translating it into Latin, it seems fitting to leave it in its crudest form. From sea to shining sea, shut the f— up.

This is, as often lamented, the unofficial mantra under which both cabinet ministers and aspiring government backbenchers are believed to be expected to operate. In professional circumstances, “shut the f— up” is known as “communications.” In paper form, “shut the f— up” is known as “redaction.” And as much as the leading pundits moan about all of this, “shut the f— up” is the one piece of advice they shout at the leader of the opposition whenever he emits a word or two that might be considered passably interesting.

So now we learn that shutting the f— up is the best way to cajole this government. Or at least that shutting the f— up is preferable to not shutting the f— up. The optimal Ottawa would thus seem to be one in which no one says anything in more than a deferential whisper, and even then only rarely and when asked.

This is, granted, not quite a revelation.

It is this Prime Minister, mind you, who is on record as the only in the nation’s history to have launched legal proceedings against Her Majesty’s loyal opposition—a libel suit he loudly threatened and officially pursued, then quietly dropped some months later. Less actionable offenses are met simply with the sort of invective that intends to compel silence—or maybe obliterate. Those who have too insistently pressed the issue of this country’s handling of Afghan detainees have been accused of sympathizing with the enemy. Liberal Mark Holland was once deemed an “agent for the Taliban intelligence agency.” In his time, Stephane Dion was accused of both endangering Canadian soldiers and threatening the unity of the country. Later, when the opposition parties rallied together to form an alternative government they were said to wish to “destroy the country” and denounced as “traitors,” while one government MP warned of something approaching “sedition.”

You see, it is not simply that Mr. Harper’s political opponents are advised to shut the f— up, but that to do otherwise may be considered treasonous. And lest you think that this sort of restriction is isolated to the likes of Stéphane Dion, Michael Ignatieff, Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton, remember that the Defence Minister once mused we should all be mindful of what we say in public, lest we embolden the Taliban.

All of which might be less problematic if Mr. Harper’s side hadn’t in fact so successfully scared the opposition—often with charges far less serious than those noted above—that it has seemed for the last few years only periodically willing to state an identifiable position that might be met with anything less than unanimous praise. (And if the press gallery, for that matter, hadn’t accepted furious scorn or fawning celebration as the only acceptable reactions to events here.)

Back though to the particular matter at hand.

“Let me tell members this,” Mr. Baird continued. “Canadians do not want to drag the abortion debate into the maternal and health discussions.”

You see, it is not simply that concerned individuals might best shut the f— up, but that the entire nation, by Mr. Baird’s estimate, would rather everyone shut the f— up about all of this. He might not be far wrong on this.

“This government and the Prime Minister are focused on how to make a positive difference in the lives of mothers and newborn children in the developing world,” Mr. Baird finished. “We want to find ways that unite Canadians, not divide them.”

An honourable pursuit that. But Mr. Rae was unpersuaded and, pressed again, Mr. Baird was compelled to invoke the “culture war” the Liberals are apparently (if so far ineffectively) waging.

Mr. Rae simplified his complaint, wondering aloud what the government’s “problem” was with “democracy itself.” Then Anita Neville stood and listed the groups and individuals alleged to have faced this government’s wrath, quite selflessly leaving her own party off the roll call.

Mr. Baird moaned of the Liberal plan to cleave Canadians “rural from urban,” “east from west,” and even “big city from small farm.” And when that point was exhausted he accused the opposition of impure fundraising practices.

Alas, our foremost voice of reconciliation was unable to bring peace—or at least fearful silence—with such stuff.

The Stats. Abortion, 10 questions. The oil industry, five questions. Firearms and crime, three questions each. Nuclear energy, the Supreme Court, Helena Guergis, economic development, foreign ownership, Omar Khadr and poverty, two questions each. The navy, ethics, forestry and firefighters, one question each.

John Baird, 15 answers. Vic Toews and Rob Nicholson, four answers each. Denis Lebel, three answers. Dave Anderson, James Moore, Deepak Obhrai, Jim Flaherty and Bev Oda, two answers each. Lynne Yelich, Leona Aglukkaq and Peter MacKay, one answer each.

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  • Holly Stick

    "…The Conservatives have axed funding for up to 14 women's groups in the past two weeks…"
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/wome…

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      Fourteen taxpayer supported whine-grievance-monger organizations (that purport to speak on behalf of tens or hundreds of thousands times more people than their actual, you know, membership) down, hundreds (thousands?) more to go…

      Only it isn't that, either. The fed funds god-knows how many groups and projects, some good, some downright loopy, few that have anything much to do with its constitutional mandate as a federal government. It says sorry-no to a couple dozen. Break out the freakazoid Harper-hates-[special-interest-group-here] crap, for the cameras and microphones beckon.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

        This is the kind of BS that ruins these boards. Is there a way you could tone it down?

        • Mike T.

          I think any respectable person would issue with DPT there.

          I am sure Holly wouldn't have used the term had the conservative senator not used it first. She is merely making a point.

          • Holly Stick

            Thank you Mike T, for being a little more intelligent than most.;

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Almost time to abandon the good ship macleans? Not quite yet, but….

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            Isn't that the coward's way out? PhilCP, you've made tremendous contributions to rationality and civility here, and I salute you for it. Stay and fight the good fight.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            Coward….ouch!

            Mostly it is a plea to go along with those of Sean and Danby.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

            It's just not as fun, lately.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            Seconded; especially after Jack left.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            As influential as Jack was (is I'm sure, in his new life), there is more to it than that, no? Just a normal lull in the cycle of public discourse? "Bad" set of stories to comment about? Maturing of the ID format? Other? Combination of previous?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

            I wish I knew.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

            Too little fresh content. With the exception of Wherry (and even he tends to be more in the vein of sharing links, outside the QP sketches), most of the bloggers are somewhat sporadic in their offerings (maybe the Olympics burned them out!). It's more hit and miss to log on and find a conversation to join.

            The whole aftermath of the Mitchell thing (I know they claimed it was unrelated), including Well's bizarre rant in response to one anon commenter left me feeling less compelled to visit (I can't properly explain why).

            And I think the loss of Kady is something this site hasn't fully recovered from. When she and Wells were both posting frequently a year ago and beyond, things had more of a community feel (that's not meant to slight the other bloggers, if any are reading!). That's slipped away, a bit.

            And a few regular commenters have become so very bitter and angry, it kind of sucks the fun a bit too.

            I don't know, really. These are just a few things that occur to me.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

            There are aspects of "fighting the good fight" that have been pulling at me.
            I loathe the politics of Stephen Harper and with each new twist in the path, I feel the need/urgency to dislodge him in an election.
            Unfortunately, the more I see of Ignatieff, the more I find that he is a poor alternative. He has no "feel" for politics, no calm certainty in his leadership and he tends to walk into punches with alarming regularity. I'm finding it depressing that despite Harper's vulnerabilities, the opportunities to unravel his spin are being squandered.
            I'm coming to the conclusion that Michael Ignatieff just doesn't have it, and as we travel further down the fork called Harper, I'm beginning to resent the ineptitude of the Liberals.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/john_g2708 john g

            I agree, but probably from the opposite perspective as you.

            I expected much more from a Harper-led Conservative government. 4+ years in I didn't think I'd be looking at Harper presiding over record government spending levels and defending a $50 billion+ deficit as a necessary evil. I didn't think I'd ever see someone like Harper defend the Orwellian "Human Rights" tribunals that mete out kangaroo court justice. I didn't think I'd ever see the day where Chretien has a better record as a tax cutter and spending slasher than Harper. It gets harder to care who is in power when both alternatives basically behave the same.

            Add to that the abusiveness of some posters on here (I'd like to see Holly Stick try this BS on a Wells thread, for no other reason than the eventual end result) and it is certainly not as much fun to post here as it used to be.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

            I still miss Jack and his sometimes mischeviousness.

            Jack, if you're reading this, come back buddy. We need you.

            How's that for appealing to his good nature?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

          LOL – Very good Jenn.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

            Seriously? My comment has been deleted by the administrator? I am curious to know on what grounds?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

            You should reprint it Jenn.

          • Holly Stick

            Sorry about that Jenn, it was a funny one.

          • sbt

            "Seriously? My comment has been deleted by the administrator? I am curious to know on what grounds?"

            National Security?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

            Well, I guess I'm okay since yours and Holly's was also deleted. What I really meant to ask was was it reported by a commenter–meaning you, meaning you had zero sense of humour.

            Glad to see you've answered that question! That was pretty funny. But of course that would just cause my comment to be REDACTED not removed.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            IIRC you used the word "scratch"; I believe the correct terminology is "rearrange".

            If not that, perhaps it was the phrase "boob-tube"?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

          Stay classy there DPT…..sigh

      • Holly Stick

        One of the organizations cut, Alberta Network of Immigrant Women – current projects including

        " …increase awareness and opportunities for women, and particularly immigrant/visible minority women, to participate fully in the economic, social and cultural life of Canadian society…"
        http://www.aniw.org/projects.php

        Something any racist would deplore.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

          You got me, Holly, dead to rights. To suggest that such support of community activism has little/nothing to do with a federal government's constitutional responsibilities is unquestionably racist, and thoroughly deserving of your epithet hurl further above.

          I have now gone beyond "had it" with you. It was dumb of me to respond to your post, thinking there might be a coversation to be had. Trust me, it won't happen again.

          • Holly Stick

            You think calling them "whine-grievance-monger organizations" was an attempt at a conversation? You know absolutely nothing about these organizations, but you smear them like any old bigotted knee-jerker, and then you pretend you want a conversation? Give me a break.

        • wafer

          Holly, instead of just reading from the web site why don't you find out if any of these so called projects actually provide any value. Let us know. Every crackpot organization has an important sounding mission statement and purports to be providing all sorts of valuable services. I think a good look at all groups using my tax dollars to do studies, provide needed services etc. need to be looked at and judged on a regular basis. If they provide no value, let them find their own funding. The Libs. passed out money to anyone and everyone without much due diligence. Just look at some of the crap studies we hear about on a regular basis. Finally the chickens are coming home to roost. it is about time.

          • JamesHalifax

            Let me guess Holly…….you belong to one of those tax-sucking feminist groups right? you know the kind…..they use about 90% of their "funding" (read hush money) to pay their own salaries, 5% for posters, and another 5% for media attention. Leaving…….0% for any actual help for the disenfranchised.

            That about sum it up?

          • Holly Stick

            No, I have no connection to any of the groups whose funding was cut in the past two weeks, other than a shared humanity, which you appear to lack.

            Fortunately I have never been in need of a shelter for battered women like the ones the Harper government just cut funding for out of narrow religious bigotry.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Holly, I'm going to start playing the post it notes game like Wilson and other Con supporters.

            The Reform view of women:

            "We should try to keep our mothers in the home and that’s where the whole Reform platform hangs together."

            - Garry Breitkreuz, Conservative MP for Yorkton-Melville, in the Vancouver Province, October 11, 1993.

          • Holly Stick

            Ooh, good quote; somebody should use that in the election campaign.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

            Unfortunately Breitkreuz probably will, and successfully.

          • wafer

            Typical, in both cases Breitkreuz and Senator Ruth, the search for something inflammatory to create an opportunity to criticize or further one's own adjenda, the point is completely being missed. Sadly there are so many people who only see the words and never the message or the context. But that is what keeps these threads alive isn't it.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

            You call that inflammatory? Repeating what he says?

            I would save the term inflammatory for something stronger, say, writing an open letter to rally fellow gun enthusiasts to "save" Canada from an "unconstitutional" coalition.

            Or maybe, as a representative of rural Saskatchewan, sending ten percenters about an increase in violent crime in cities to residents of urban ridings held by Opposition members?

            That would be inflammatory. Pointing out that the MP is a walking wedge, is not inflammatory, that's accountability.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

        A plea for civility, Holly

        • Holly Stick

          danby, you're a nice guy, and I think you want more civility all around; but think about how it looks when you ask a woman to mind her tongue without also rebuking the men here like madeyoulook and others who lie and smear the women's organizations whose funding has been cut.

          This whole post is about women being told to shut up; and what would happen if we did shut up? Would a few men here speak up for women's rights once in a blue moon and then feel real heroic about themselves? How many men here have even noticed what Harper's government is doing to women? Very few.

          Harper has started a war against women and we will not shut up. He has sown the wind and he is about to reap the whirlwind.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            Keep posting by all means, but set the example that you want the rest of us to follow. (FWIW)

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

            I'm all for you standing up and giving them both barrels, but when we resort to trashy epithets, the thread of real debate gets buried – and the real issues get lost in the invective.
            Guys like Dennis F like to spew dismissive, one sided arguments, followed by "NEXT". People spar with him, but very few actually listen to him – his style buries whatever substance his message may have – to tell you the truth, I just skip over his schtick. Let him have the low road. You are better than that.
            Present your case. Get people involved and try and turn some heads.People who might want to learn more just get dissuaded by rants of "STFUCA"

          • Holly Stick

            I've presented all sorts of links. I won't waste time trying to educate people who are not willing to learn.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

            God tips danby.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/austinso austinso

        But of course throwing money out for 10%-ers, the media blitz for the economic action! plan, dubious grants for EAP projects, pollsters to determine which finger the average conservative sticks up their butt, etc…

        Now that's money well spent~!

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

          Nope. It isn't. But thanks for playing.

      • The Real Jan

        Harper's clearing the decks so that this new funding can go to his favourite faith based groups. This is what Bush did. The idea is to reward the base without losing swing voters who would be turned off changing the domestic policy. But Harper has screwed this up so badly he'll wish he'd never attempted it. The mess looks good on him.

  • Holly Stick

    I should say that I agree with you that Kinsella is being a stupid knee-jerker in this matter. I am sick of frat-boy partisan wankers of all political persuasions; but unlike the Conservatives, most parties keep them out of important places like the PMO and Cabinet.

    • DPT

      how about being sick of knee jerk militant feminists?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

        Un, huh, keep those ladies from fighting for their rights by golly. Suffragettes were really annoying – they got the women the right to vote and even be considered a person. Damn them

    • Orson Bean

      "unlike the Conservatives, most parties keep them out of important places like the PMO and Cabinet. "

      Huh? Kinsella is a senior strategy advisor to Iggy Himself. The only reason he isn't regularly munching on donuts in the PMO is that his team isn't currently inhabiting it.

      • Holly Stick

        I was referring most of all to Prime Minister Partisan Frat-Boy Wanker. You have an immature jerk for a leader, then naturally his followers are more likely to be immature jerks.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

      In fairness, it's a lot easier for the other parties to keep their knee-jerkers out of PMO and Cabinet, because they're not the Government.

      • Holly Stick

        The Liberals at least had people who could speak for themselves and didn't run away from questions like Harper, Oda and the rest do.

  • Holly Stick

    You mean when Conservative liars claim you are following the exact same strategy they have been following for years… oh look over there, a shiny thing!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

      You're kidding, right? That party has twisted themselves into a pretzel trying to avoid culture wars. Harper tripped up once with whole 'galas' fiasco, but otherwise they've done everything possible to avoid fanning those flames.

      • Holly Stick

        Ha ha, what a funny satirist you are. What a nice fairy tale.

      • The Real Jan

        Oh, yeah he's just quietly working for the 'hard working' Candians. Surely you're not that naiive?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

    Everything I've read suggest the Cons were/are way more fearful of a Rae-led Liberal party than an Iggy-led one.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

      I believe it.
      Mr. Rae is faaaar more savvy and seasoned than MI – Ignatieff often comes out looking like a punching bag, something you would not see with Rae

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

      I believe it.
      Mr. Rae is faaaar more savvy and seasoned than MI – Ignatieff often comes out looking like a punching bag, something you would not see with Rae

      • Gary

        Yes, bring on Mr. Rae………
        We ALL want Canada to be a COMPLETE basket case like he left Ontario!
        Perhaps then, my Alberta can be a true Republic, shedding the yoke of uslessness that is the ROC!

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

          Gary, you sound a lot like Gilles Duceppe

        • The Real Jan

          And we're forbidden from talking about angry men from Alberta…

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

      Is that to say that Ontarians have forgiven or forgotten whatever it is that they believe Rae did to them back in his days as Premier?

      I had just taken it as a given that it was widely accepted that there was no way the Liberals with Rae as leader could overcome that legacy (right or wrong).

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

        After 20 years, and compared to Mike Harris? Dude's a saint, man. A saint!

        And my wife had to deal with rae days. Now she thinks he's kinda hot.

        Anyone under 30 just knows him as the liberal guy.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

          LOL – Like your response M_A_N.

          Wouldn't stop the CPC from serious repetative slagging. I can hear them going on forever.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Did your wife begin thinking that Rae was hot shortly after he appeared on RMR?

          I believe that this isn't the right video clip, but it does make reference to the original?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Did your wife begin thinking that Rae was hot shortly after he appeared on RMR?

          I believe that this isn't the right video clip, but it does make reference to the original?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Did your wife begin thinking that Rae was hot shortly after he appeared on RMR?

          I believe that this isn't the right video clip, but it does make reference to the original?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

          Did your wife begin thinking that Rae was hot shortly after he appeared on RMR?

          I believe that this isn't the right video clip, but it does make reference to the original?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

            He was really funny actually!

            I wonder if he is enjoys this mess with the Liberal Party, I mean, I think he knew it wasn't fair that Ignatieff just got the leadership as if he was the heir to the throne and probably more because he knew Ignatieff didn't had it in him more than others as he knew him personally.

            He is a great diplomat, so will never go "I told you so" but he should!

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

            I wouldn't be so sure. It was reported that early in Dion's leadership, Rae noted at a caucus meeting that the only reason Dion was leader was that he was neither Ignatieff or Rae.

          • Orson Bean

            That's absolutely true. And it's just like the fact that the only reason Joe Clark became federal Tory leader in 1976 is the fact that he was neither Mulroney nor Claude Wagner. And the fact that the only reason Ed Stelmach became Alberta PC leader recently is the fact that he was not Jim Dinning.

            "Anybody but ______" campaigns often lead to decidedly sub-optimal results like that.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

            I didn't know that about Rae, and I am surprised because he seems to go out of his way to be polite and reasonable, even when he is in attacking mode in QP.

            Regardless, he is not the next Liberal Leader, never will get in the west.

          • Orson Bean

            As I: understand it, a lot of the resentment within the LPC towards Rae during that leadership race didn't have anything to do with his personal style or personality or anything like that. It had to do with the fact that he had spent years — really his entire formative years in politics — as a member of the NDP. This meant that, among other things, he didn't have deep roots in the LPC, not a big internal network, etc. And in a partisan political machine with a long history like the LPC, that sort of thing counts for a lot. Then there was also a faction which felt that Rae would be an electoral liability because of the perception that he was/is going to permanently have the Ontario Rae Days era hanging around his neck like an albatross.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

            Happily for me, she thinks smart guys are hot. A good brain makes up for a lot of faults, thank goodness…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

            I actually like them brainy liked Ignatieff : )

    • frobisher

      This is a fact.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

      I completely agree. There's lots of evidence (interviews, articles, memos, etc.) that Rae was considered much more of a threat.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

        No matter what happened in Ontario; I agree with you guys. Ray is more believable, articulate and, most importantly, politically savvy.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          He's more than savvy – he's ruthless.

          Despite some of the mistakes he made as Premier (and he's always been frank in admitting them), he's one of my favourite politicians. I was one of the lonely few defending him during those years.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            he's always been frank in admitting them

            One of my favourite characteristics in a leader, public or private enterprise.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

            A characteristic missing in Stephen Harper

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

            That was the great thing about King Ralph. You definitely knew he was human, and he was unabashed in the way he lead.

            But then, I guess you have that option when nothing you say will sway votes away from you.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            While I disagreed with a fair share of Ralph's policies, I did give him credit for his openness, although that openness didn't always translate into admitting mistakes; still, better than many.

            My favourite (well the favourite one that I can recall at this moment) was his quip a year or so into Alberta's restructuring of retail electricity markets that went something like "I don't actually have any idea how it all works".

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

            If you want to understand how politics in Alberta work, you just need to look at Mr. Klein's last election. His platform was that he would be retiring in a couple years. And… The Conservative Party was awarded a majority.

            You think that's messed up? Try living here.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

            Try living here.

            Ahhh, but I do, and have for many decades!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

    Should be easy enough to rebut, if you can muster the evidence. (And you're something more than a ranting, pissy little troll with nothing add but insults and smears.)

    • Holly Stick

      Why should I waste any more time on your dishonest attempts to divert attention from the issue of Harper's vindictiveness, particularly toward women?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

        I'm done with you.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

          Don't take it personally, Sean. "You're a liar" is the most sophisticated weapon in Holly's debate arsenal.

          • Holly Stick

            Truth hurts.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Be_rad Be_rad

            Truth can be delivered with more decorum, too.

          • Holly Stick

            Why be polite to liars?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Be_rad Be_rad

            You stay classy, San Diego

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

            Hahaha, that was funny, I can hear the music in the background now…

    • Gayle

      Well, the gun registry issue was raised by the CPC, was it not? And aren't the CPC trying to use it to pit urban v. rural voters? Haven't the CPC commented about catering to "special interests"? Aren't they the ones who accused anyone of questioning their conduct of the war of being "Taliban synmpathizers"? Aren't they going on about how bad it is to have an education – as though having a degree makes you out of touch with Canadians?

      That really was not that hard.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

        Gun registry is an interesting case. I see what you mean, though I'm not convinced it enjoys enough support accross any particular demographic to count as a bona fide example of culture war (though clearly, it amounted to that when the Libs enacted it). Do you think urban Canadians are passionately, go-to-the-wall, in favour of it? (honest question).

        • Gayle

          This urban Canadian voter is. I prefer the police to have as many tools as legally possible in their crime solving arsenal.

          I don't think you can call it a culture war when it was enacted and pretend it isn't one when someone wants to revoke it.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

            I just don't see its removal as a poke in the eye of urban voters (who, as best I can tell, have been indifferent about it of late – or at least not grumbling loudly). The enactment of the gun registry may not have been intended as an explicit enforcement of urban values onto rural populations, but it certainly was received as such.

            I'm not convinced that taking it way is a divisive act in the same way enacting it was.

          • Gayle

            Then why are conservatives complaining that the LPC's recent decision to whip the vote is divisive politics?

            Urban voters want safe streets. The police support the gun registry. Rather than address this issue squarely, the CPC have resorted to their usual tactic of attacking the messenger. That is because they know with all the facts on the table, urban voters will support retaining the registry.

          • Orson Bean

            I'm more or less with Sean on this one. I think the reason the gun registry isn't a classic "wedge" cultural issue is that the (mostly rural) people who really, really want to see it scrapped are infinitely more passionate about the issue than the (mostly urban) people who are in favour of it. If you poll rural Canadians, the gun registry will rank way higher on their list of concerns and issues than for urban Canadians.

            That's different from, e.g., abortion, where you have lots of people on both sides of the issue being very passionate about it.

          • Gayle

            Well I am passionate about it. I know a lot of people who think like me.

            We don't count for some reason????

          • Holly Stick

            You're a woman, Gayle. Orson wants you to shut up.

          • Gayle

            I think the point is the CPC have identified votes they will never get, like mine, so they simply do not care what I think.

            If that is not wedge politics I do not know what is. They do not govern for the good of all Canadians – they govern for the good of the CPC. That may not make them any different from any other political party, but then again, that too is my point.

          • Orson Bean

            Holly, that is unbelievably off-base and unfair. What is with you?

            And for the record, I support the gun registry.

          • albertaclipper

            Do the country folks come into town and roam the streets on Saturday night Gayle? And if you didn't notice… The CACP is a political, not a policing entity. It has been funded in part by the corporate suppliers to the bloated, error-ridden Canadian Long Gun Registry, CGI, the computer firm for one. Fact not urban fiction. AND, if the gun registry is accessed 11,500 times per day as the CACP has said, that would be 4,186,000 times a year and in 10 years have accessed it 41,860,000 times.

          • Gayle

            Sigh…

            It has nothing to do with rural "folks" coming into town, and you know it. The registry is a tool used by the police to solve crime. And guess what – people in the city use long guns too. And you know what else? People in the city commit crimes with long guns.

            But I guess you think we city "folk" should just forget about solving crime in our neighbourhoods, because registering your gun is just too hard for you to do. Your "right" not to register your gun trumps my right to speedy investigation of crimes committed in my neighbourhood.

            Anyway…

          • Holly Stick

            People in the country shoot their wives and themselves with long guns too.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Yup, they do. I live in rural Ontario and we, the country folks, often go into Toronto to see theatre, ball games, hockey games and a friend's party, weddings, etc. This is "20l0". No more horse and buggies. We have cars and trains and everything that city folks have.

          • jte

            To really get into the long gun debate you need to look into a registration at some of the invasive questions they ask, have you ever thrown something in anger, have you had any relationships end badly recently. It's extremely invasive and is in large part an issue about privacy rights.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

            Holly , I understand your anger, as I'm guilty are the rest sometimes. Perhaps, you should walk away from your computer for a moment before posting.____You do have some good points – but if you show anger you get attacked.

  • Holly Stick

    One of the groups the Harper minority government just cut funding for:

    "…a provincial coalition primarily of first stage emergency shelters for abused women and their children. Our members also include some second stage housing programs and community based women's service organizations. OAITH is the largest women's shelter association in Canada …"
    http://www.oaith.ca/

    What do the Conservatives have against helping battered women? Are they just supposed to submit to their batterers? Is that what Harper's fundamentalist religion demands?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

    Remember how Mr. Harper referred to the coalition of Liberal, NDP and Bloc back in 2008? I believe he referred to them as "making a deal with the devil that will destroy Canada" and "making a coalition with the separatists". Rather alarmist, isn't it? I seem to recall thinking that it took a separatist (think Mr. Harper's "firewall letter") to know a separatist.

    This government does not tolerate dissension within its ranks or from the outside. They believe themselves to be omniscient and omnipotent; by that, they imply that the sweaty, proletarian masses simply do not know what is good for themselves. All issues are either black or white, right or wrong – compromise is verbotten.

    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

    • Orson Bean

      "All issues are either black or white, right or wrong"

      Sounds like a lot of posters who frequent these comment boards.

  • Dee

    F#*@, what a bunch of tools we have for a government. It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing. Canadians and Canada deserve better than this current batch of hapless, useless Conservatives.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

      I'd argue that.

      They're not Conservatives.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/A_logician A_logician

        Did you mean they're not ALL Conservatives, or that the CPC is not (small c) conservative, or that none of the MPs who are hapless and useless are members of the CPC?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

          or that none of the MPs who are hapless and useless are members of the CPC?

          How about:

          Not all of the MPs, who are hapless and useless, are members of the CPC.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    We've come a long way from "fuddle duddle", apparently.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      Fuddle duddle took waaaaay too much of the nation's energy at the time. Already one senator's intemperate remark appears to have done the same. Although, in retrospect, maybe not. After all, it was just Question Period.

      • wilson

        LOL, feel better Holly?

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

          My dear Wilson, I am always looking forward to your comments and you are right!

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Scott_Tribe Scott_Tribe

            snort.. wilson is good at parroting Conservative talking points, but she is hardly right.

          • Gayle

            I think you mean she is hardly correct – and I would say she is rarely correct.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        As you point out, it would be a mistake to think that insignificant QP shenanigans have anything to do with our nation's energy ;-)

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

    "We want to find ways that unite Canadians, not divide them.”

    Yes, but a Stephane Dion only comes along every so often.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

      Lol, so true but I must say that I miss him, he gave some of the best QP performances.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      Canadians were not THAT united by monsieur Dion; after all, Harper only managed another minority.

      Mr. Dion provided a tremendous gift to Canada when he pointed out, in essay after essay, the colossal absurdity of the indépendantiste movement. He had the separatist leaders breathing fire because of a very simple weapon: the truth. He was very much (and still is) underappreciated for those efforts.

      Sadly, he became over-appreciated quite quickly as leader of the Liberal Party of Canada. I celebrated his winning the leadership, for at that point the two leading parties had serious, smart people in charge. Mr Dion never really hit it off with voters, and the Green Shift was a good idea made disastrous by the socialist wealth-distribution and the pandering exemptions within it. It's a shame, because good, smart people, kind enough to offer themselves up for service, will look at what happened to Stéphane Dion and think twice, maybe more, then retreat.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

        I still have a lot of respect for Dion, he is a good man.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          I admire him, just to be clear. Though it's worth noting that some of his leadership woes could have been avoided if he'd been a little less stubborn with advisors, caucus, etc. (at least I've read some reasonably convincing things to that effect).

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/CTM Claudia Lemire

            Agreed, I think he is a good man and very smart but a lousy politician!

  • battered chicken

    they cut funding for the womens shelter in Alberta because all the newfies went home .

    • Holly Stick

      What kind of jerks would vote up this offensive comment?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

      Wow, another classy Con troll.

  • Emily

    I note a new Con tactic here. It was never the 'Liberal plan.' It's what Frank Graves said the Liberal plan should BE.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

      The Libs could have quickly put it to rest by stating they have no intention to start a culture war. Trial ballons need to be carefully considered before launching.

      • Pat

        Are the liberals responsible for everything someone says they should do? If that is true, maybe the liberals should start exposing some of the nonsense that appears on Blogging Tory blogs.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          "Are the liberals responsible for everything someone says they should do?"

          No, but when your name gets attached to a proposed strategy, and you don't come out and disavow it, you can't complain when your opponents proceed to use it as a club to bash you with,

      • Holly Stick

        The Conservative culture of deceit is also a culture of intimidation.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          I don't think you understand what I was referring to.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

            So, you're saying Graves' words were the trial that went bad for the Liberals? Explain Sean.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

            I'm not saying Graves was putting it out there as part of a Liberal plan, just to be clear. But if it were my party, I'd have seen two ways to handle it. First, say nothing and see how people respond to it (the trial balloon approach). Second, issue a polite but firm statement explaining that while the Liberals want to win, it's not something they'd do at any cost, and certainly not via means that will serve to entrench and inflame divisions within the country (with some added jab that the Conservatives are the ones who seek to divide, yadda yadda…).

            So, I think they decided to stay silent and see how it flew. They've been fairly successful at distancing Kinsella from the party image (at least the Cons have given up referencing the evil one), and maybe are thinking that Graves is distant enough to prevent the Cons from using him as a club.

            There's always the possibility that they simply didn't think any of this through, missed the chance to clearly state their intentions are to unify, yet risk wearing the culture war label. But they can't be that stupid. Can they?

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/janicemaerose Janice Rose

            Thanks for the explanation Sean. Good points.

        • ex canuck

          Profound, surely not.

  • Holly Stick

    Of course the Senator's advice may be well-intended, like people who used to advise battered women not to make the batterer angry. The problem is that it does not work. He will always find an excuse to hit her again and then to blame her for it.

    Harper's government has cut funding to battered womens' shelters. Coincidence?

    • DPT

      yes, put your silver hat back on

    • Dan

      Harper's government has actually been increasing funding to battered and homeless women's shelters. What his government has been cutting is all of the other programs designed to help women break the cycle of poverty and/or abuse that traps so many.

      Yesterday Elizabeth May acurately described how the funding for women's rights has shifted saying, "They will fund Band-Aids after the fact but they will not fund root causes, identification or elimination of root causes. That's not their agenda."

      • Holly Stick

        I'm sure you are correct about thedir filthy actions and their filthier agenda, but even the dimwitted rightwingers here are not so quick to condemn funding for battered women's shelters; and the Ontario Association of Interval and Transition Houses (OAITH) is one of the groups that were cut.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        People can see band-aids..
        ..people can't see you fixing something that you've prevented.

        This, sadly, seems to be one of the deciding factors for CPC policy. Cure is better than prevention, because cure makes for better politics.

        • Holly Stick

          Yeah,,, next stop: super-prisons!

  • knick

    Congratulations Senator Ruth for capturing the essence of the Harper party in one brief pithy comment!

    What a stirring campaign slogan it will make!

    "(And if the press gallery, for that matter, hadn’t accepted furious scorn or fawning celebration as the only acceptable reactions to events here.)"
    and amen to that.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/novagardener novagardener

    All I can say is what a bunch of hyprocrits this con govt. is. They have the gall to call the call the Libs divisive/

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

    It's nauseating that the Liberals have sicced their attack dogs on notable feminist Senator Nancy Ruth. Kinsella is baying for her resignation. He also called her a "disgrace". It's a shame to see a longtime advocate for women's rights being attacked by testosterone-fuelled goons because of her frank style and salty language.

    • Holly Stick

      So you agree that she is warning activists that Harper is a vindictive prick?

      • wilson

        No Holly, she was warning the aid agencies that there would be a backlash from Canadians if they made this an election issue.

        Canadians recently were polled at 60% think abortion is immoral,
        and 90% did not know that there is no abortion laws in Canada.
        Canadians are rather uneducated in this regard,
        and Ms Ruth just said 'let sleeping dogs lie'.

        • Holly Stick

          Your statistics are lies.

          • Orson Bean

            Holly, for Crissakes, get a grip. The 60% figure is straight out of a very recent Harris/Decmia poll that got a ton of media coverage.
            http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomm…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/Scott_Tribe Scott_Tribe

            Actually.. that was a Manning Institute-sponsored poll that was refuted later by a Harris Decima Poll.

          • Mike T.

            It's also important to remember that while some polls show some Canadians might not object to banning abortions in later months or weeks, currently the Harper policy is no money for programs that provide developing world abortions AT ALL.

          • Holly Stick

            Conservatives always, always, always lie.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

            Holly, pretty much all politicians lie. Its part of that whole, parliamentary privilege thing. It sucks. But don't start sounding like a 'partisan wanker'.

          • Holly Stick

            No, I think many politicians may be honourable people, or at least have decent impulses whedn they can. But Harper and his closest followers live lies.

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

            Please also note, Wilson, your Manning Institute poll no longer exists on the Manning Institute Website.

            You're citing something we can't refute because we can't see it. Wait, that sounds familiar….something about…documents…Afghanistan…

          • http://intensedebate.com/people/RunningGag RunningGag

            <del>Conservatives</del> Politicians <del>always, always, always</del> lie.

            Fixed that for you. You were starting to sound like a 'partisan wanker'.

          • Orson Bean

            Just for the record, Scott, I'm about as pro-choice as it's possible to be. Thanks for the clarification. My general impression, though, is that on this issue, it's a classic case of what specific polling question you ask, how you ask it, etc. There are a zillion different ways you can word a question on the abortion issue. A friend of mine worked for Decima back in the Alan Gregg days, and it was interesting hearing him explain how you could run different polls on the same issue and get vastly different results, depending on the question, how the question was set up, where in the sequence of overall questions it came up, etc.

        • E Hippern

          I highly doubt that poll. Interesting poll results though that show the majority of women in Canada do not trust Stephen Harper and his Reform/Alliance cabinet. The biggest threat that this country faces on unity issues and true democracy currently resides as the government in this 'minority' parliament where the wishes of the vast majority are expressed by the opposition parties.

    • Mike T.

      That's not what is nauseating in this affair.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

      CR: has anyone other than Kinsella come out against Ruth?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

        As far as I know, WK was the only senior Lib to demand her resignation. Anita Neville accused her of threatening and blackmailing:

        “Sending Conservative Senator Nancy Ruth to threaten and blackmail Canada’s foreign aid community is the most extreme example yet of how this deceitful and intolerant Prime Minister operates,”
        — Liberal Status of Women Critic Anita Neville.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          Thank you. It would, minimally, be a squandered opportunity for the Libs to focus on Ruth (I'm not as down on it as you, but that's neither here nor there). That would give the Cons an easier route to hang it all on her.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/WDM WDM

          It's disconcerting that the Liberals apparently don't even know what Ruth meant by her remarks.

      • Sigh

        Kory T has branded her as that most dreadful of things, "a Liberal appointee", and "not a Conservative". Pretty damning, I would say.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

          They must be a bit nervous to point out a Liberal appointment that wasn't partisan.

    • knick

      Why shoot the messenger? I think the good Senator has done a service to all those who don't get what the Harper government is all about in terms that even those who don't know and don't care can understand.

    • The Real Jan

      The only thing Ms. Ruth could do to salvage her reputation would be to resign from the Conservative caucus in protest of Harper's policy on maternal health. If she stays she is a traitor to womens rights.

      • sbt

        Oh please. If we were to do apply the high standards of this litmus test to the Liberal Party Ignatieff would have to expel all the members who voted against his maternal health motion. I think Harper would gladly swap one senator for 3 MPs.

        • The Real Jan

          Do any of them claim to be long standing feminists?

          • sbt

            Well, some of the Liberal MPs who watched their own party's motion go down in defeat sure are. Where were their cries for party discipline? Have they betrayed women's rights as well by caucusing with pro-lifers and allowing them to get their way?

  • Holly Stick

    "…The Conservatives have axed funding for up to 14 women's groups in the past two weeks…"
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/wome…

  • DeanP

    And we should add that the press gallery has accepted the role as stenographer for the Tories, simply reporting what they say. Why the press didn't bother to explain that there was nothing illegal at ALL about the coalition (or that Harper had proposed one with the separatists not two years before), and that criticizing the government is not per se treason, is beyond me. The Tories do this stuff because they know the press won't call them on it and will simply present the Tories "X" and the Opposition's "Not X" as equally valid sides of a political dispute.

    Jebus, I'll bet if the Tories tomorrow said "The earth is flat" the press would simply portray it as "another controversy today over the shape of the earth! Tories say that it's flat, and dismiss Liberal contentions that it's in fact round as 'partisan bickering.' Joining us in the studio are MPs . . . let's delve into this new and rancorous controversy," rather than saying "Tories made the easily disprovable claim that the earth is flat. It's not. Moving on . . ."

    • Pat

      I am not sure if this is funny or sad. I just know it is true.

  • Holly Stick

    This blog makes fun of them regularly:http://canadiancynic.blogspot.com/

  • Holly Stick

    This blog makes fun of them regularly:http://canadiancynic.blogspot.com/

    • Pat

      That is good, but I was talking about the liberal party. Maybe they should pull up a BT blog that advocates something like "who cares if brown people are tortured" and start calling it part of the CPC platform.

      Why should conservatives be the only ones permitted to play fast and loose with the truth?

      • Out There

        "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get covered in mud, and the pig likes it."

      • Holly Stick

        Well, I just objected to frat-boy partisan wankers below, so I would not go along with your frat-boy partisan idea here. How about the Liberals grow up and grow a spine and speak up more often and more loudly for women's rights and equality in Canada and all over the world? That way they can be honest and not lie.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

        I gigle at the visual, but as a Liberal I would be uncomfortable with that strategy. You know, having values and all that. And while I recognize that my thinking is akin to the old adage that nice guys finish last, I believe it would be a disservice to myself and to others who think as I do, to allow the Conservatives to obliterate all the nice guys. Or in other words, why win the battle when you've lost the war?

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/mackenize mackenize

    Thank you Mr Wherry for such a lovely and hilariously insightful article.

  • wilson

    Suand Delacourt said backlash would come from the govt,
    NOT Senator Ruth.
    Here is what she acutally said:

    Don't make it an election issue!

    "It's just if you push it, there will be more backlash. This is now a political football. It's not about women's health in this country," she added. "Canada is still a country with free and accessible abortions. Leave it there. Don't make it an election issue."

    but carry on Liberals,
    you lost the abortion vote on your own motion,
    may as well give it a shot nation wide……but just remember,
    Ms Ruth warned you!

    • James

      I don't think she was speaking to a room full of of Liberal party members, but international aid groups. If aid groups run candidates in the next election I'll buy your interpretation. Otherwise your being blinded by your partisanship.

    • Mike T.

      To suggest that the problem would be with Canadians is deceit of Levant-ian proportions.

    • Gayle

      Right – because she is so interested in saving the liberals.

      Obviously she is worried that her own party will push back and try to end abortion rights.

  • ex canuck

    And all this heated commentary was prompted by an inane parliamentary rant by old past his sell-by date, what's his name Raybob?

  • not there

    Why Harper would rather Michaelle Jean over Mary Walsh. One isn't afraid to ask questions; the other minds her manners.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Style Style

    Great job Liberals. You got the House to endorse cutting abortion funding from the maternal health package, now you can attack the Conservatives for hating women and democracy.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

      So, if the vote had gonree the other way, the government would have followed the will of the house? What a cool idea.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        Well.. if there's one thing Harper has demonstrated.. he refuses to follow precedent.

        So given the current precedent.. it might even be possible.

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