Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Meanwhile, in Guergis

by Aaron Wherry on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:46pm - 65 Comments

The private investigator says the Prime Minister’s Office did not accurately report to the ethics commissioner the information he passed on to them. He says he has no evidence as to the conduct of Ms. Guergis in his “possession or knowledge.” The concern, he says, was “optics.” He says Mr. Jaffer was the “back door” to federal funding and Liberal party president Alf Apps was Nazim Gillani’s “getaway driver.” Mr. Gillani responds. Mr. Apps’ law firm says Mr. Apps was briefly on retainer to Mr. Gillani, but the law firm declined to do work with Mr. Gillani and the retainer was returned. And CBC reports that the private investigator arrived in Ottawa driving a nice car.

Tags: Alf Apps, Derrick Snowdy, ethics commissioner, government operations committee, Helena Guergis, Nazim Gillani, prime minister's office, Rahim Jaffer

More by Aaron Wherry

The Real Jan

We seem to have lost the audience. One too many sleazy characters, perhaps.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

I agree. Alf Apps was the last straw.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

Yeah, really what's next? a dream sequence? A Jaffer twin who was the cocaine user?

http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

"Jaffer-Twin powers Activate!"

"Form of: A Busty Hooker!"
"shape of: umm, a Busty Hooker!"

It's possible my recollection of that cartoon may not be completely accurate, but I prefer my version.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

I was kind of hoping for a ménage à trois involving Snowdy, Gillani and whoever won the Miss Hurontario pageant last year.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

On the next episode of Prurience and Politics.

wilson

Amir Attaran has yet to make his cameo appearance!

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

The reason you have lost the audience is that people are sick to death of this whole mess.
The fact is the media and the opposition were screaming for her head even before this incident. Witness Wayne Easter and the Russian Count arguing that Harper's judgement is in question because he hadn't fired here.
Today there is sympathy for Guergis. However, the PM hung on until he started hearing about hookers, off shore accounts, illegal lobbying, abuse of email accounts and office etc. etc. So the PM did exactly what he should have done because he had no idea if the allegations were true. He turned it over to the authorities.
However, that wasn't good enough for the lame street and the opposition parties. Day after day salacious, torqued headlines analyzing her school girl days, her treatment of staff and on and on.
So now the media is saying that Harper acted too quickly. Good God are the people who pretend to be reporters sick.
Cabinet Ministers serve at the pleasure of the PM. He heard the allegations, knew they were not proven but acted because he lost confidence in Ms. Guergis. The media and the partisans on this board should take a hike.

Gayle

"The fact is the media and the opposition were screaming for her head even before this incident."

Harper's the one who cut it off. Maybe he should be a good conservative and practice what he preaches – you know, all that taking personal responsibility for his own actions and stuff.

Or, in fairness, since Harper has not blamed anyone else for this…yet, maybe you should follow his example and stop looking for scapegoats.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

Gayle….You can't deny the media and the opposition did a hatchet job on her. Any PM hearing the allegatons whether proven or unproven would take action. As I said she served at the pleasure of the PM. He obviously lost confidence and she is gone. There is no scapegoats. I am stating facts and you know it. So now the whiny press and of course the partisans are all feeling sorry for her. A little too late for all those crocodile tears.

Gayle

Except the PM did NOT take action because of media reports. He took action because of the allegations from the PI, which were apparently grossly exaggerated by the PM. That is why the media and opposition are wondering what the hell is going on.

common man

So you would prefer a leader who takes action after he sees the media reports.
I`m just gonna take a guess that you are an Iggy supporter.
Gayle

Well you are missing the point and misstating the facts.

The opposition called for Guergis to be stripped of her cabinet post – which is exactly what should have happened. I do not recall anyone saying she should be kicked out of caucus and not be permitted to run as a candidate in the next election. Do you have a link to where the media and opposition called for that?

Harper kicked her out of caucus, on the basis of some unspoken vague allegation that it turns out was never even made. So maybe instead of pretending this is about the media and the opposition, you can face the reality that Harper found her to be a liability and turfed her, and then lied about why he did it. THAT is what this is about.

What is it about your conservatives that you think everyone should take responsibility for their own actions except conservatives?
common man

Actually PM Harper has a record of demoting Ministers whose actions are careless or incompetent.
Previous Liberal PM`s would often promote misbehaving ministers to Ambassordors in Europe or head of Crown corporations.
That seemed to help the minister to take responsibility for their actions.
Gayle

Which has what, exactly, to do with the point? It is almost as if you are trying to change the topic…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

You mean like Raitt?

Oh wait..
common man

The fact that I forgot about Raitt probably shows that it was no big deal when she did have that minor lapse of good judgement.
By the way, who was that reporter who was lurking around the ladies washroom hoping for a scoop ?
wilson

'That is why the media and opposition are wondering what the hell is going on.'

So what!
PMSH does NOT answer to the media nor the Coalition of Losers.

They all look like fools, everyone of them, and PMSH again did the right thing.

Now that Apps has been exposed as the guy that drove the getaway car,
the media will back off………
Gayle

Sorry wilson, but you seem to be having some trouble understanding the basics of our democracy.

The Prime Minister does have to answer to parliament. DId you miss that whole supremacy of parliament thing a couple weeks back?

In any event, I see you, too, are trying to change the subject. Do none of you conservatives care about the fact Harper fired someone and then lied to us about why?

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

I wasn't aware that you've been chosen to speak on behalf of all Canadians.
http://intensedebate.com/people/M_A_N M_A_N

"Russian Count "
"lame street media"
"people who pretend to be reporters"

You know, some of what you said actually makes some sense, but when you casually toss around terms like these that add nothing to meat of the argument, your quite possibly valid points lose credibility.

By attempting to demean an individual or group by using a slur like "Conbot" or "Count Iggy" you make a public statement that your argument lacks the gravitas needed to stand on its own.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

Indeed. Why throw away your credibility so easily.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

For a while there, Alf Apps was probably wondering whether Nazim Gillani would become his "Hurricane Katrina".

http://intensedebate.com/profiles/aaronwherry Aaron Wherry

No one else seems to get this reference, but I appreciate it CR.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Thanks!

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Apps took a retainer to be the guy's lawyer, saw what it was all about and canned him as a client.

Making mountains out of nothing.

It is the norm folks for lawyers to take on a new client and a retainer and that doesn't mean they have to keep the client.

9 days doesn't mean anything in this case.

The opposition parties did not ask that Guergis be booted totally out of the Con party. They asked that she step down from cabinet.

This whole thing is getting way over the top.

I don't care what side of the political fence you sit on, this Snowdy is a piece of work.

http://intensedebate.com/people/hollinm hollinm

OntarioTown…….I agree that the Apps thingy is just another part of a sleazy saga. However, it does go to show that when Liberals start getting on their high horses something comes back to bite them.

Apps is a distraction but the media sure picked it up and Canadians heard about it on every newscast and in the papers. Most Canadians I suspect are not that discerning about the nuances of this stuff.

Graham was on P and P last night. Evan actually did a half decent interview.The agreement was the best they could do at the time he said. However, for some reason the Conservatives were doing the best they could do with the hand dealt with them at the time but of course thats not good enough. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

Gayle

This does not bite the liberals one tiny little bit. It is akin to Harper saying hello to the guy when he passed him in the hallway.

What the media is reporting on is how the CPC are desperately trying to make a mountain out of this molehill in order to distract attention away from them.

Get a grip.

wilson

Snowdy says he has docs to prove that Apps was working for Gillani into 2008, not just a few days in 2006.
He also has an email metioning that Apps referred a client to Gillani.

Gillani rushed to the CBC to defend Apps……..they sure seem to be the best of buddies.
It ain't over yet Gayle, as much as the media and LPC hope it is.

http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

I might be wrong, but didn't Snowdy allege that Gillani sent business towards Apps?
http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

Only tangentially related, but who was Snowdy working for (and for what purpose) when he got to the point where he decided to call/warn/whatever the PM/CPC?

Apologies in advance, I'm sure that that info is out there, I just haven't actually seen it myself, and this seems like a quick way to find out.
Gayle

Ha ha ha

And one of Harper's judicial appointees once represented a member of the Hells Angels.

You guys will try to make this about Apps, but it just looks like what it is – a desperate attempt to change the channel.

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Hello out there in never, neverland – when a person seeks a lawyer, he/she puts down a retainer and brings in files and info. The lawyer goes through them…….Apps realized this guy was a problem and dumped him.

I worked for lawyers so I know that's how it goes.

Even you're getting a divorce, you have to put down a retainer.

Grow up and pay attention to realities – challenge, are you capable?

wilson

'The opposition parties did not ask that Guergis be booted totally out of the Con party'

And the Liberals and their media run the CPC now?
You're kidding, right?

burlivespipe

Apparently Stalin's ghost runs the CPC….

Christina Archer

It's all about optics, it's all about theatre folks. Steven Harper thinka the voters are idiots anyway.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

It was interesting how this story got so little coverage yesterday. Mr. Snowdy's comments on the Guergis affair are the lynchpin of the entire case that got Ms. Guergis fired, yet they were pretty much ignored/backpaged by the mainstream media.

Canadians – we care more about the Canadiens than we do about Ottawa….and good on us.
http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

http://intensedebate.com/people/SeanStok Sean

It was the opening story on the National last night.

Sigh

The Canadiens?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Fred_Moro Fred Moro

The hockey team.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Did you really just ask that question?

common man

I`m still confused.
Does Gillani have pictures of Apps on his cellphone ?
Should Iggy fire Apps ?
Who is going to play Snowdy in the movie ?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Who is going to play Snowdy in the movie?

Mike Bullard.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

You mean that wasn't Mike Bullard testifying yesterday?
http://intensedebate.com/people/SamDavies SamDavies

Tom Selleck is likely available….
http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

You're actually really funny today.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Tceh Tceh

At least Apps was smart enough to run away from Gillani. Jaffer was not.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

Only elitists value being smart….

Dot

Soon, everyone can play Six degrees of Rahim Jaffer.

Let's give it a try.

Rahim Jaffer – Aleem Lakhani – cousin Nazim Gillani – Alf Apps – Gordon Shumway- my tv (1980s)- me.
http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

We all enjoy our busty hookers and Big Daddy G stories but neither was required to attract the interest and discipline of the PMO. Letting your husband use your ministerial office to run his influence peddling business is colossal bad judgment. The Ministers that knew about that should have brought it to the attention of the PMO and the PMO could and should have acted long before Derrick Snowdy and the Toronto Star articles showed up.
sally

Isn't this a fine testiment of the low standards of our elected officials First Snowdy tries to peddle his dirt to the Liberals, they don't bite so off he goes to see Hamilton. Then Hamilton goes to PMO who go overboard and turf Guergis out of the party. Meanwhile Giorno gets carried away with overzealous allegations to ethics and RCMP , but wait now they have try to drag the Liberals into the cesspool with the Apps angle. What on earth was Harper thinking? The more we learn ( no thanks to PMO) the more apparent it becomes that this issue has been badly handled from the get go. Harper should have dropped her from cabinet long before Snowdy ever got in the picture. Everything done since then has been to cover up their own stupidity. The story is no longer about Guergis and Jaffer, it's about Harper's rash decisions based on hearsay and perceived optics. What;s worse is the conservative committee members willing to participate in this smear capmpaign. I'm no fan of Guergis and think she should never have been in cabinet in the first place but what is happening now is just plain shameful and disgusting.
http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

The one truly significant comment from Snowdy was this: nothing he said to the Conservatives related to Guergis and, even more significantly, nothing the PMO told the ethics committee about what Snowdy had said was true.

Culture of deceit, indeed.

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Ted, I believe you are a lawyer. If so, please enlighten some folks here about retainers, etc. They just don't get it.
Gayle

No no no!

It is all about Apps.

Get with the program Ted.

common man

Didn`t you find that the connection between a prominent Liberal like Apps and the shady character, Gillani just a little bit signifigant ?

Will the Toronto Star be doing some investigative reporting to see if their is some connection between Apps and busty hookers ?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Not really.. do you refuse a retainer when someone comes to hire you before you know them from Adam?

That the firm rejected him as a client and gave the retainer back suggests they did exactly what was proper. Took the retainer from a potential client, looked at the situation and went "Oh hell no.. we're not getting involved in that."

The Real Jan

Both Apps and Gillani say Gillani did not become a client. So we're left with the word of a guy who has to borrow a car…and a couple of toadie MP's.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

I watched P&P yesterday and Pat Martin said something that resonated with me.

The PMO took drastic measures against Guergis basing themselves on falsehoods. Harper didn't just kick Guergis out of cabinet and caucus. The manner in which this was done ruined her life. Guergis is now damaged goods.

If she is indeed innocent, Harper is the only person that can rehabilitate her and we all know that he won't do it.

common man

Jeez, all Libs are like their leader. They can`t make up their mind.
First you say you want Harper to fire Guergis.
Now, you want him to take her back.
The only consistent thing about Libs is their anger directed towards Harper. Give it a rest.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Removed from cabinet != fire.

How is it that everything is black and white to you people. Do you see no shades at all (Other than skin, of course)
Gayle

No one told Harper to lie to the public about why he was removing her.

Maybe if Harper was not such a wimp, and did not think doing anything the opposition demanded was a sign of weakness, he could have simply removed her from cabinet as he should have done. But no, he has to trump up some false allegations against her and say that is why he is firing her.

James Wolfe

This is not news. This soap opera, this daily dose of sleaze, brain dead nonsense from CTV, CBC, the mainstream media, and its also a big part of the reason people are tuning you clowns out. You are no different then the comedy show that goes on daily on Parliament hill. Spin, lies, corruption, blame, scandals…what a joke this country has become. Like the politicians the media is as much to blame for the socialist cesspool this country has become. Yes it has left Quebec and is spreading across the country. The only difference between the CBC and CTV now is that one sucks 1 billion dollars a year out of the taxpayer’s pockets. CBC, CTV, Liberal, Tory, same old story. Both have destroyed our economy and our proud English speaking, UEL history, all a disgrace to the country. What a mess.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP PhilCP

You forgot to lead in with "Blah, blah, blah…"

Here is the link that you could have provided instead.

By the way, what is UEL?

BCer in Mtl

Wouldn't now be the right time for some creative You-tuber to make a film about Harper & Guergis using scenes from the Sopranos? You know, Harper as Tony, Guergis as Adriana, Jaffer as Christopher and Giorno as Silvio?
Marlene

Snowdy presented a docket file number from the Toronto courthouse as a pump and dump "cookie cutter" scheme that Apps helped Gillani with. He cites court docket O.S.C. 07CV329370 PD 3, which Snowdy says is missing from the court house.

I've encountered similar "phenomenon" from court houses. Ask a cop, they'll tell you the same thing. Either the docket is forged or Apps & his law firm have some friends at the Toronto Courthouse willing to get rid of documents.

Those reading, please watch the cliphttp://watch.ctv.ca/news/latest/snowdy-speaks/#cl… at minute 8:20 to 13:58 and tell me the copy of the file number above that Snowdy gave to the committee is the proof that Apps via Fasken Martineau had indeed acted for Gillani. That's what I got out of it.

So if Apps's & Fasken Martineau, says they "accepted a retainer from Mr. Gillani in November 2006, but ended the relationship shortly after."

Why does the docket number start with '07 indicating the year of the litigation? I'm really hoping a copy of this court file makes it to the public domain.