Categories: Andrew Coyne, Capital Read

"The government put other conditions on the table."

by Andrew Coyne on Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:04pm - 168 Comments

What a surprise…

Talks to avoid a parliamentary showdown and a possible snap election have bogged down as parties haggle over the finer details of a deal to let MPs view uncensored Afghan detainee records.

Bloc Québécois House Leader Pierre Paquette suggested the parties are still significantly divided as he emerged from morning negotiations Thursday with the Conservatives, Liberals and NDP.

“The government put other conditions on the table,” Mr. Paquette told reporters. “Their position is not the same . . . so we are far from a solution.”

What could possibly be going on?

…the negotiations into which the government has lately entered are in all likelihood a diversion. The aim is to stall, and probe for divisions within and between the parties, notably the Liberals’ palpable fear of an election. The differences between government and opposition will be made to appear as if they were over questions of detail, rather than fundamental principles. So that when, inevitably, the negotiations break down, the government will sigh and claim that it went the extra mile, as it strove to balance its conflicting obligations, but was thwarted by an intransigent and unreasonable opposition.

So the question is, will the opposition allow themselves to be played in this way? Will they heed the voices telling them that this is not worth fighting an election over? Will they chicken out? Or will they, you should pardon the expression, man up?

UPDATE, FRIDAY 11 AM: It seems, notwithstanding my explicit predictions to the contrary, that they have a deal. Facts 1, Coyne 0.

Tags: afghan detainee docs

More by Andrew Coyne

Gayle

It never would have reached this point because the liberals would have recognized parliamentary supremacy without the need for a motion to cite them in contempt. They would have been up front about what happened and why.

It is called being accountable. Harper would never do that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Gayle, who are you trying to kid? Chretien had a majority and he still pulled all kinds of unaccountable nonsense, such as having the ethics commissioner report only to him, burying the Somalia inquiry, shrugging his shoulders at one significant scandal after another.

But you really didn't address my point, which is that there is a significant cultural clash on the issue of detainee abuse allegations.

Gayle

Chretien never said he was above parliament. That was Harper. You cannot divorce Harper's flouting basic democratic principles from the rest of the issue.

But if your point is that liberals care about our international reputation, and human rights, and conservatives don't, well I can agree with that.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Gayle, you're clearly trying to engage in a partisan spitting match. Have fun. Next.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

This comment is priceless.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

and your response is typical, in a knee-jerk sort of way.

Don't they teach reading and critical analysis in school these days? Or do people just let their emotions carry the day all the time?
http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

"lol next" doesn't really lend itself to critical analysis.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Dennis_F Dennis_F

Yeah, but what about the 99% of my posts that you fail to mention? Hey, if you stick to the facts as stated, then there's no need for the dismissive "next", is there. Gayle deserved it. You do, too, sometimes.
http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

I apologize – I had no idea you'd been appointed to pass judgement on which comments were worthwhile and which failed to meet your sterling standard.

From now on when you're dismissive and arrogant, I'll remind myself that you're all-knowing and the rest of us can only strive to be worthwhile of your attention.

lol

next
TJCook

My frustration and sarcasm aside, I really don't think it's helpful for you to mock people when – in your sole judgement – their comment doesn't meet your guidelines. Especially since I've seen you utterly miss the point at times.

Stop writing as though you're smarter than everybody and you'll find people much more willing to engage in constructive debate.

"Yeah, but what about the 99% of my posts that you fail to mention?"

Did you give Gayle the benefit of the doubt you're asking of me?
Pat

I must say it really looks like you have no valid response to Gayle's post.

wellwell

This country is now officially PATHETIC. The government doesn't care whether it's adhering to the rule of law, so long as it scores some sort of microscopic tactical advantage that invariably melts away. There's no one to stop Harper because opposition members are competing with one another to see who can fall off the turnip truck the fastest. Ignatieff's cowardice is becoming the punch line of Canadian politics, and "showboat" Layton isn't much better. Supporting Harper are the "know nothing" troglodytes whose knuckles scrape across these forums – their empty patriotism and poisonous resentments are obvious to everyone.

The people running this country are witless and without character. Not one of them has the vision and selflessness to do what the Brits have done in the past few days. Our political class stinks, but the real downer is that the country as a whole is responsible for these clowns, so Canada must be broken. What a sad realization for this once proud Canadian.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Be sure to send us a postcard from wherever you end up.
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

Agreed. This is as depressing as it gets.

common man

Oh, it can`t be that bad here for you. I hear things are pretty gloomy in parts of Europe and I`m worried about the good ole USA. So cheer up and be thankful you are lucky enough to be Canadian.

Bonko

"Or will they, you should pardon the expression, man up?"

Ladies, you gonna let Coyne get away with equating personal responsibility with the male gender? Haha, of course you will, he's a big government socialist and he's on board with the war crimes thing so he gets a free pass from you.

Prediction: October 2012. Maclean's Managing Editor Meagan Hyphenated-Lastname fires Coyne for using capitalization and punctuation, both of which their style guide views as parochial and oppressive.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

At what alien tea party is Andrew Coyne a "big government socialist?" Do you even know or care about the meaning of the words you use?

Bonko

From a recent speech Andrew Coyne gave: "I’m actually not a conservative — either in name, or in any other way. If forced to describe myself, I’d say I’m a socialist, because by any usual or sensible definition, I would be.

I favour public pensions, public health care, public education, public unemployment insurance. I favour a whole battery of things involving the state function. In fact, I’ve had tangles with some of my conservative friends over things like user fees for health care, or the necessity of carbon taxes to combat global warming."

So to answer your question, it would be the alien tea party hosted by Maclean's editor and self described socialist Andrew Coyne.

Out There

Things could get really interesting if the following scenario plays out:

- The Conservatives stall, and refuse to turn over the documents. They are found in contempt.
- An election is called, returning another Conservative minority government.
- The new Parliament asks for the documents again.
- Lather, rinse, repeat.

The question then becomes: who will get blamed for the endless cycle of elections, if such a thing happens? Will the electorate grow tired of the Conservatives' shenanigans? Or will the Conservatives successfully persuade the electorate to give them a majority to end all this squabbling? (The latter is a bit like agreeing to sign over your lunch money in perpetuity to the schoolyard bully so that he will quit hassling you.)
http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

"So the question is, will the opposition allow themselves to be played in this way? Will they heed the voices telling them that this is not worth fighting an election over? Will they chicken out? "

This is Michael Ignatieff that we are talking about. They will chicken out.

danby

He's got to make a stand somewhere.
Better too early than too late.

Ahhhhhhhhh….. The Right Stuff ………..Do you know where MI could maybe borrow, or buy some? ;)

Loraine Lamontagne

The last time a selfless politician with vision came to the scene Canadians made fun of his accent and his loyalty to Canada was put in doubt because of his dual citizenship even though his ancestors settled in this country 400 years ago.

http://intensedebate.com/people/danby danby

Not the first good man to become a casualty of war – it just wasn't meant to be

dave

Once again, Coyne outs himself for his anti-Conservative bias.

Note, though, that he's previously outed himself as anti-Liberal, when they were in power. I tend to think he just hates everybody.