Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

Rules of engagement

by Aaron Wherry on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 10:51am - 51 Comments

Rob Anders explains why he signed a greeting card to Canadian soldiers with the inscription, “When in doubt, pull the trigger.”

In an interview, Anders conceded he left the message on the card, arguing “it’s a common military expression” that isn’t meant to alarm anyone. ”It’s just another way of saying keep safe and defend yourself,” he told the Calgary Herald, believing the issue is being overblown.

Tags: Afghanistan, Canadian Forces, Rob Anders

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Wascally Wabbit

As I posted on Susan Delacourt's blog on this topic – Mr. Anders clearly belongs to the "shoot, shovel and shut up" school of Calgary thought!

Holly Stick

Well, they try to keep him shut up, he shovels out the BS when he can, and if anyone ever pointed a gun at him, that armchair warrior would run away squealing like a piglet.

http://intensedebate.com/people/psiclone psiclone

A good saying and one well worth consideration personally I go for ' shoot em all and let god sort it out!

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

You do realize the origins of that phrase was about killing Christians?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

On the contrary, the origins of that phrase are about Christians killing heretics.

It comes from the Latin phrase: "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset" (translation: Kill them all. God will know His own), which dates back to the papal inquisitions of the thirteenth century.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Read deeper. Look why he was saying that. Some of them were claiming to be Christians.

http://intensedebate.com/people/Crit_Reasoning Crit_Reasoning

Some of them were claiming to be Christians.

Well, sure. Almost all Europeans in the Middle Ages claimed to be Christians. The victims of papal inquisitions were killed because they were deemed to be the wrong kind of Christians (i.e. heretics).

Look why he was saying that.

I assume that psiclone was joking.

Crit_Reasoning

A google search of the string: "When in doubt, pull the trigger" reveals that it is anything but a "common military expression". In fact, most of the search results are related to Rob Anders' inscription.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

I'd venture to suggest that most military catchphrases don't make the google highlight reel. Why would they? They're not an organization bent on publicly sharing information…

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

A quick google of "military sayings" brings up a slew of them. While the Military might be secretive, Soldiers often aren't.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

Heh, fair enough. I guess Google likes you more than I, because my own "military catchphrases" search rendered only three results…

http://intensedebate.com/people/Ricard_S_Argent Richard_S_Argent

I guess the "series of tubes" can be a cruel, cruel mistress ;)

http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

Anyone know Anders stance on abortion by chance?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Devoutly against it.

And yes, the word choice is deliberate.

http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

sanctity of what?

Mike T.

Abortion by chance is horrific! Abortion should be available, but only by decision of the pregnant woman!

:)

http://intensedebate.com/people/sea_n_mountains sea_n_mountains

not sure what your answer is supposed to intone, but it does not take away that anders appears to be a hypocritical windbag or jut an idiot.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

Poor Rob Anders. It seems like every time he opens his mouth, the liberal media makes a big stink about it.

officerfarva

Maybe it is because complete piles of stink come out everytime he opens his mouth.
http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Have you read some of the things he's said?

The guy is a loon
http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

Whoops! I forgot to include my <sarcasm> tags….

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

When I was small I asked my parents the meaning of a word used by my uncle and was told "it's just something they say in the army."

Turns out that word gets used a lot in Hip Hop records and on South Park.

http://intensedebate.com/people/WDM WDM

Your uncle killed Kenny?

http://intensedebate.com/people/Fred_Moro Fred Moro

The bastard!

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

I'm blaming it on Canada

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

When in doubt, pull the trigger.

That philosophy certainly worked out well for Brig-Gen. Daniel Ménard…

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

Is "pull the trigger" a euphemism?
http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

Just couldn't resist, eh? ;-)

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

The soldiers under his command deserved far better than what has been reported so far. If even half of it is true (see also: reporting by Michael Yon), then this little dig does not even come close to what this guy deserves.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

Hmmm, I better do some reading, cause I think that I might be mssing something. Thanks for the suggested reading.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

"It’s just another way of saying keep safe and defend yourself"

And "close your mouth" is another way of saying "stop talking so you don't sound like an idiot"

LynnTO

This has reminded me of one of my favourite "catchphrases":

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

I'd prefer that Anders keeps talking as much as he wants; that way, at some point the voters in his Calgary riding will presumably get tired of having his views attached to them, and find a more representative representative.

Holly Stick

Ah, many have tried to replace him as a Conservative, but but Harper helps him cheat so there has not been a real nomination race for years. Either Anders has something on Harper or they are blood thuggers.

Steve M

I saw a discussion last week after Chretien's picture hanging decrying the lack of wit in our current crop of politicians. This overreaction is exactly the reason why! Anders was trying to be clever, and the media jump all over him.

Holly Stick

That because he is not clever and is too stupid not to understand this.

chet

I love the "believing the issue to be overblown" line,

as if the possibility that this actually IS overblown is unfathonable and it couldn't possibly be the scandal-du-jour press that is out of touch.
Andrew (not PorC)

Goodness. I can't make heads or tails of christians. Kill a fetus? Cardinal sin. Kill an adult? God loves it.

What's with the selective application of their ten rules? Seems to me, 'don't kill people' is pretty categorical. Not, 'don't kill people, except if they don't believe in me, hold different political views, have committed a sin, etc.'

Steve M

is "are shooting at you" one of the things covered by your "etc"?

Andrew (not PorC)

Didn't Jesus say to turn the other cheek? It's not 'don't murder', it's 'don't kill'.

chet

well I guess if one lives in a moral vacuum of perpetual moral equivalences, where, say, soldiers are compared to terrorists, then yes, killing is killing.

If one views the taking on a life which we know with certainty to be innocent (in all senses of the word both in terms of culpability but also being in complete fragility and needing protection) and compare it to a soldier defending a villiage from a Taliban monster intent on enslaving its occupants in a medieval form of Islamic servitude,

if one takes the view that there is no real right or wrong in the world, no malevolent forces who, without the threat of violence upon would do their evil bidding (like the apparent fictional characters of Hitler, Mugabe, Mao, Stalin, Jong-il, and Ahmadinjad) then yes, you would have a point.

Unfortunately there is a right and a wrong, and hence killing isn`t killing.

Andrew (not PorC)

You're arguing that Christian morality doesn't make sense, and I'm not disagreeing. All I'm saying is that people who claim to be Christians (wrap themselves in the Jesus flag) take what they like and leave the rest. Jesus and Christianity in general should be pacifist, based on the bible, and should be categorically anti-capital punishment, anti-war, etc. Anders seems to be a faux-Christian who is just fine with killing people, even though that is one of the ten things you should never do. Unless you're saying that the Ten Commandments are really the Ten Rules of Thumb That You Should Try to Adhere to if Convenient.
Boogard

This is why you always lose elections. It is extremely well documented that the Conservatives are in power due entirely to the shift of Christians from the anti-Christian Liberals to the Conservatives:

"As Canada’s once-mighty Liberals consider their future, they might be advised to visit a local church—and not just to pray for the party. The religious vote, it seems, played a major role in their recent election defeat. According to new data from Angus Reid Strategies provided exclusively to Maclean’s, Catholics—who make up 44 per cent of Canada’s population and have preferred the Liberals for decades—are flocking to the Conservatives…In 2008, just 22 per cent of Quebec Catholics voted Liberal, compared to 56 per cent in 2004. “Looks like we have a new status quo,” Grenville says….It’s not just Catholics who’ve had a change of heart. Protestants, who make up 30 per cent of the population, tend to split their vote between the two major parties, but over the last four years, there’s been a big shift toward the Tories. In 2008, 64 per cent of church-going Protestants outside of Quebec chose the Conservatives, compared to 51 per cent in 2004."
http://www2.macleans.ca/2008/11/24/catholics-flee…

Liberals just can't help themselves. Despite knowing that their anti-Christ narrative is deeply damaging to their electoral prospects, they just can't help hating on Christians. Hating Christians is far more important to Liberals, for reasons beyond comprehension, than winning elections, and don't think for a second that an anti-religion platform sits well with Sikhs and Hindus and Muslims and Jews, they know you'll come for them next. Meh, whatever, knock yourselves out guys.
Andrew (not PorC)

Firstly, thanks for completely avoiding my point. It gives me heart that it is not readily refuted.

Secondly, I'm not anti-Jesus. He seemed like a decent guy. His followers generally didn't get the message, unfortunately.

Thirdly, I'm not a Liberal, and I don't speak for them. I'd vote for Liberals, but I don't particularly identify with the party. I'd question whether the characterization of them as anti-religious is accurate or fair. They certainly advocate a lot of boneheaded policies rooted in religious ideology.

Fourthly, I don't hate Christians. I have a strong distaste for willful irrationality, intolerance, and hypocrisy. 'Christians' that exhibit these characteristics tend to invite scorn, but not merely because of their 'Christianity'. I use quotes because most 'Christians' aren't Christians, in that they don't follow the teachings of Jesus, who you would describe today, if he were your contemporary, as a bleeding heart liberal.

"It is extremely well documented that the Conservatives are in power due entirely to the shift of Christians from the anti-Christian Liberals to the Conservatives:"

I don't believe that is true. I suspect fatigue with a scandal-ridden and listless regime is more likely why the Liberals lost. I suppose that when the Conservatives eventually lose their grasp on power, that will be a sign that the end of days is nigh?
Boogard

You're anti-Jesus, Liberal, a Christian hater, and a bit too confident in your ability to weasel. Despite being educated with hard data, you "don't believe that is true". Pathological. I've rarely witnessed such hostility to reality, it's fascinating really.

Will you promise me that you will continue to spew anti-Christian hatred on the internet? Not that I find hate speech tasteful, it's just that sunlight is the best disinfectant and we need to leverage the hate of you and your kind to get a proper Conservative majority government. Thanks.
Andrew (not P or C)

I think I've stated pretty clearly that I'm generally pro-Jesus. He seemed like a decent guy.

Your 'hard data' consists of some polling and demographic figures. Altogether now: "Correlation is not causation." This is not proof of what caused the Liberal loss. I'm just supposing that it is the usual reason governments lose power, which is voter fatigue. Evangelicals are still a pretty small group, and there's barely any room at all between the Liberals and Conservatives on 'religious issues'. The CPC has the same policy on abortion, same-sex marriage, capital punishment, religious freedom, etc. Frankly, a religious backlash isn't borne out in the national discourse.

Criticizing hypocrites does not constitute hate speech. Sorry, friend.
Holly Stick

anti-Conservative does not equal anti-Christian. The Conservatives are not good examples of Christians.

John 8:44 (New International Version)
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Steve M

"…should be categorically anti-capital punishment, anti-war, etc…"

…anti-police (at least those with guns), anti-prisons.

It seems to me that when a certain major religious organization tried to go the christian route (forgiveness, prayer, and rehabilitation) with the few bad apples in their own ranks rather than turning them over to the cops, the rest of the population got pretty upset about it.

Steve M

I'm too many years out of Sunday School to argue what the Bible does or does not consider a sin, but while turning the other cheek is commendable in an individual, if you're part of a team, it makes you a liability. The bad guy you don't shoot may end up killing your buddy/ies instead of you.

Patchouli

To be fair, Anders didn't write "kill," he wrote "shoot." He just wants to take their legs out…

http://intensedebate.com/people/Halo_Override Halo_Override

Where I work, it's pretty common to mention to co-workers the frequency with which one has had sex with their moms, and how good/bad/expensive it was. However, because I am for the most part a properly functioning human being with a grown-up sense of when social decorum is expected and appropriate, I would not write this in a co-worker's going-away card.