Why Israel has a friend in Harper

WELLS: Canada has been silent on the debate over Israel’s raid of a Gaza-bound ship

by Paul Wells on Friday, June 4, 2010 9:00am - 109 Comments

Amir Cohen / Reuters

Most of the world didn’t notice where Benjamin Netanyahu was standing when he announced he was cancelling his White House visit to handle the crisis over the bloodbath on the Gaza flotilla. But of course he was in Ottawa. Stephen Harper was standing beside him. The location was no accident. And it makes this week’s deadly confrontation between Israeli commandos and the people on those boats a Canadian story, too.

This is the second time a Canada visit by Netanyahu was disrupted. A mob of demonstrating students and agitators forced the cancellation of his speech at Concordia University on Sept. 9, 2002. Netanyahu’s visit this week was his first to Canada since that fiasco. A lot has changed in the meantime.

The Economist chronicled some of the changes in an article last week, calling the two countries “unlikely allies.” It quoted Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s hardline foreign minister: “It is hard to find a country friendlier to Israel than Canada these days . . . No other country in the world has demonstrated such a full understanding of us.”

The Economist’s piece lists the elements of the Harper-Israel rapprochement, including his description of Israel’s behaviour during its 2006 war against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon as “measured,” and his government’s decision to halt core funding of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, a move the U.S. has not matched. The magazine even mentioned Harper has cut funding to Kairos, the ecumenical Christian charity, “alleging that the group was anti-Semitic.” This led Alykhan Velshi, the communications director for Immigration Minister Jason Kenney, to exalt on Twitter: “The PM’s principled foreign policy getting noticed!”

Which is odd, because the last time somebody—the Toronto Star—asserted it was allegations of anti-Semitism that got Kairos its funding cut, his boss Kenney wrote to the Star to insist nothing could be further from the truth. “I did not accuse Kairos of being anti-Semitic,” he wrote. “A cost-sharing program with Kairos was not approved because it did not meet CIDA’s current priorities, such as increased food aid.”

Which is odd, because 12 days before he told the Star he didn’t call Kairos anti-Semitic, Kenney was in Jerusalem calling Kairos anti-Semitic. “We have implemented a zero tolerance approach to anti-Semitism,” he said. “What does this mean? We have defunded organizations, most recently like Kairos, who are taking a leadership role in the boycott.”

Back when Brian Mulroney was PM and national unity was the hot topic, ministers only had to travel as far as Montreal to say the opposite of what they were saying in Ottawa. These days double-talk requires a passport. One of the first reports of changes to the board of Rights and Democracy ran in the Jerusalem Post under the signature of Gerald Steinberg, a conservative Israeli analyst who’s a friend of the new Rights and Democracy chairman, Aurel Braun. Steinberg’s entire thesis was that the changes at the agency are part of a Harper government realignment of policy on the Middle East away from criticism of the Israeli government. It was, he said, all about the Middle East.

Steinberg’s column has not been rebutted by Rights and Democracy. But when layabouts like me started taking his argument at face value, we were harshly lectured by Braun and crew in the National Post, under the headline, “It’s not about the Middle East.” Perish the thought. “Conflict entrepreneurs in the Canadian and Middle East political trenches could not resist interfering,” Braun and his loyal board colleagues sniffed.

We are being given the runaround. The Harper government is advertising a much harder line on Israel to allies there and at home than it is willing to admit to the broader public. This is not quite what a principled foreign policy looks like. But then, the Harper government often advertises how much fight it has in it, while preferring to avoid fights.

The Rights and Democracy transformation was all plenty of fun until it received too much scrutiny in unusual places, like this column. That troubled agency has been awfully quiet lately. In mid-February its new rulers announced they were “acting to ensure financial transparency” by commissioning a financial audit by Samson Belair/Deloitte & Touche. Results were promised within two weeks. It will soon be four months, and the Deloitte audit is nowhere to be seen.

But I digress. On the crisis at hand, the Gaza flotilla violence that my colleague Michael Petrou chronicles elsewhere in this issue, there is a very robust debate, everywhere, about whether it makes a grain of sense to airlift commandos onto a ship in international waters as an effective expression of any country’s national sovereignty. Or whether the resulting lopsided carnage either reflects Israelis’ respect for human rights or advances their strategic interests. That debate is rampant, today, in the cafés and newspaper columns of Israel.

But there is silence from the government of Canada and a conspicuous silencing wherever the government of Canada can extend its influence. Ze’ev Sternhell, a leading authority on fascism, wrote in Ha’aretz that elements of the Netanyahu government have endorsed “a crude and multifaceted campaign . . . against the foundations of the democratic and liberal order.” In Israel, Sternhell survived a pipe-bomb attack by a crazed settler. In Canada, I think he’d have his funding cut off if he were a prominent member of an NGO.

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  • Amateur Hour

    "This is not quite what a principled foreign policy looks like."

    Unless you accept that lying is a principle of the Harper Government (see Harper, Cannon, Kenney, etc. for examples).

    "It will soon be four months, and the Deloitte audit is nowhere to be seen."

    If you want to see it in a year or two, file an Access to Information Request.

  • Mike T.

    The article, while interesting, doesn't exactly address the issue posed to in the title: Why DOES Israel have such a good friend in Harper?

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/PolJunkie PolJunkie

      I was thinking the exact same thing…

      • c_9

        I thought it was quite clear: because he is advertising a harder line than he is willing to admit. They are more pro-Israel, and doing more, than is considered seemly to admit in Canada by many. And Israel likes it.

        EDIT: Oh wait, now I understand. There's no explanation of why Harper is doing this. Sorry for my confusion. :)

    • Oliver

      Well there are people that would say it's because Harper is a religious fanatic involved with groups that advocate the inevitable apocalypse and so on…

      I think the article tries to stay away from such assumptions and simply indicates that the government's actions speak very loudly: the CPC is sold to Israel. Why try to figure out why when we don't have the facts? These kinds of debate always end with name calling.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Maplesoon Maplesoon

        I believe the answer to WHY Harper is so pro-Israeli is easy. His base is the Western Christians. By supporting Israel, he is increasing his support amongst the aging religious folk. By supporting Israel, he isn't losing votes amongst the pro-sanity crowd, as they already are either looking for alternatives, fed up with Iggy and Jack, or live in Quebec.

    • John D

      You're all looking for complicated answers, but it's simple. Right-wingers are supposed to like/support Israel, so they do. No critical thinking involved. It's like asking someone from Montreal why they cheer for the Canadiens.

      • Canuckistanian

        It really has become part of the culture war (I'm surprised David didn't mention the 'War on Christmas' ;-)

    • David

      Mike T, the reason why Israel is such a good friend of Canada's is because we have common values and enemies. And also, Israel is the only DEMOCRATIC nation in the middle east. Oh, all you anti-Israel people forget this FACT.
      Do you remember 9-11? How about these Toronto 18 Terrorists. Or the London bombing. They all have the same common denominator…. Their religion. RED FLAG!!!!
      Mark Styne is right. I suggest you pick up his book and educate yourself!

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/tobyornotoby tobyornotoby

        Styne? Or do you mean R. L. Stine? I loved those Goosebump books!

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/craigola craigola

        Poor fellow wandered out of the Steyn section and couldn't find his way back in.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

        As counter-argument to your points:

        Hamas was democratically elected.

        Timothy McVeigh.

    • Mulletaur

      Really ? Why does Harper do anything ? Winning electoral coalition, of course. He wants Jewish voters to vote Conservative rather than Liberal.

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

        What? Harper is involved in some type of electoral coalition?

    • wsam

      The Harpers would support any far right government. They are neo-conservatives and the more neo-conservative the Isreali government gets the better.

      Support for Isreal is more than an electoral strategy. The Harpers like Netanyahau. They beleive his approach is the correct one and are probably a little jealous they cannot act more like him in Canada. And that is why they are danagerous. Because they believe their stupid crap is actually really smart.

      Harper had a hissy in the House of Commons when Canada didn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Bush and invade Iraq. So what do you expect? He's a moron.

  • Boogard

    "The Economist chronicled some of the changes in an article last week, calling the two countries “unlikely allies.”"

    Canada is the fourth most Jewish country in the world, doesn't seem that unlikely to me.

    "That debate is rampant, today, in the cafés and newspaper columns of Israel. But there is silence from the government of Canada"

    The Canadian media is I think regarded as the, um, most silent media in the entire world on the Israel issue, they should bear most of the blame. Although that is changing,. Thomas Walkom's recent piece in the Star was extraordinary and courageous.

    I'd like to add 3 points: one, Canada's voting record at the UN on Israel matters began to shift under Martin and before Harper. Two, there is this quote from an Israeli consul general suggesting both the Liberals and Conservative are basically the same on Israel: "Canada is today a very close friend of Israel, with both a friendly government and opposition. We just had the premier of Ontario, Dalton McGuinty, in Israel,” Gissin said. – http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?i…. Three, the Liberal party has traditionally been the party of Jewish Canadians, whose support of the Liberals has been nearly unmatched, witness Irwin Cotler's record breaking pluralities in winning his seats. While some of that support has bled Conservative, Jews still by and large support the Liberal party and always will I suspect. With high profile Jews very sympathetic to Israel like Bob Rae and Irwin Cotler in their caucus I don't see how it is possible they would be tougher on Israel than the Conservatives, with the notable exception of Iggy, who not long ago wrote that a military solution should be imposed on Israel. Nuclear armed Israel.

    The activists who were killed by Israelis did not die in vain. Things are changing and Israel has never been so isolated.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/A_logician A_logician

      Canada is the fourth most Jewish country in the world.

      What does that mean?

      • Boogard

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Demographics. Note that by percentage of population we'd actually be the third most Jewish country behind only Israel and USA; I was using absolute numbers.

        Wells wrote a good piece I think but he didn't answer his own question, ie why Israel has a friend in Harper. I think this data is relevant to answering that question.

    • wsam

      But most Jewish people do not vote according to how a political party treats Israel. In the United States most Jewish people vote Democrat, despite the Republican Party being close to the Likud and Israel’s far right. Under George W Bush the Republicans share the Jewish vote actually dropped.

      Historically, most Jewish people have voted for moderate political parties like Canada’s Liberal party. The reasons why are obvious. The Liberals were traditionally the party of Catholics and various immigrant communities, many of whom were Catholics, while the Tories were the party of white Protestants, making the Liberal party more receptive to immigrants and sympathetic to their concerns – making them doubly attractive to Jewish voters.

      Harper’s embrace of Israel is probably more reflective of his neo-conservatism than his electoral cynicism and his electoral cynicism is massive.

      • Boogard

        "But most Jewish people do not vote according to how a political party treats Israel."

        Interesting theory, but there'd have to be some difference between the parties on Israel to test this theory, and as my quote above demonstrates, there isn't, either in Canada or the States.

        Grits, page 100: "The party's Montreal organizers thought that (Trudeau) wouldn't be acceptable in any of the available French-Canadian ridings because of his anti-clerical reputation, so a complex arrangement was worked out with the Montreal Jewish community's Liberal elder statesman, Lazarus Phillips." In other words, he was too radical to be elected anywhere but an ethic community with a history of radical politics, not very different from Justin running in Papineau, as it happens. I'm not sure where "moderate" enters the equation here.

  • Bill Simpson

    I was doing alright with this article until the last paragraph when you suddenly throw a bunch of unrelated bits together, with the result of somehow smearing Harper as a fascist, and that cutting off funding is as heinous an act as firebombing someone.

    Also, you quote a "leading authority on fascism". Who comes up with this designation? I can forgive CNN and Fox for spontaneously dubbing someone a "leading authority" based on their being the only talking head they can find at five minutes notice, but in article like this, it looks like a bit lame.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/Halo_Override Halo_Override

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeev_Sternhell

      There's a little too much to summarize effectively, but it's certainly worth reading for anyone who suspects Sternhell as a viable authority.

  • Jeet

    So many misguided souls who simply don't have the wherewithall to understand or believe Israel will be blown off the map IF their maniacal friends win. War may start in the middle east but with the divergent opinions here it won't be long until we are involved, likely amongst ourselves. The race to the bottom continues.

    • david

      one of the few sensible comments here.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/ZestyMordant ZestyMordant

      You're probably right. If the people of Gaza were allowed food, medicine and cement it wouldn't be long before Israel completely disappeared.

      • DPT

        It's not the food they are worried about (or stopping for that matter) as evidenced by their policy of transporting goods once inspected on to the strip) it's the missiles and various other naughty bits that accompany the food that are the problem.

        • Mou

          can i ask about something…….
          who deserves the land of "israel" ?????
          please give a reasonable answer based on facts , !!!!!

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/hardmouth hardmouth

      Right… well in that case why doesn't Netanyahu (and Harper) come out and admit that he doesn't favor a two-state solution, but a one-state solution: Israel. This slippery/cowardly doublespeak is something both governments hold in common, apparently. Probably because most of their policies couldn't survive open debate and discussion… so instead things are implemented secretively and incrementally.

      You are quite right that it won't be long before the conflict spreads here… the longer a lasting resolution is put off, the more instability and insecurity will be felt elsewhere. It's bad for everybody and it needs to be resolved.

  • David

    We finally have a leader who supports its allies. Boogard is correct about the shift starting with Martin. Cretien was NO friend of Israel, he shook hands with a terrorist (the Hamas leader during the Francophone conference). Good for Mr. Harper!! We have a lot in common with Israel: common enemies, technology, trade, etc. We have NOTHING in common with these backward Muslim countries, they want to control the world. Keep up the good work Mr. Harper!!!

    • Boogard

      Allies my ass, Israel is a beggardly third world nation with no constitution, no trial by jury, a heavily censored (by the military) press, a unicameral legislature based on PR – an abstraction of democracy – and is the most widely villified state on the planet due entirely to their actions. They are heavily dependent on foreign aid, they are not part of NATO, their level of corruption in government is orders of magnitude greater than Canada's, and have never fought side by each Canadian or American troops in battle. They are not allies in any way, shape, or form. Wells' invocation of fascism is actually legit in this instance; Avigdor Lieberman and his party are race-based nationalists with little regard for democracy or international norms.

      Are they a liability to the USA and Canada? Let's ask the Mossad chief:

      "Mossad Chief Meir Dagan said on Tuesday that Israel is progressively becoming a burden on the United States.

      "Israel is gradually turning from an asset to the United States to a burden," said Dagan, speaking before the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee
      http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/mos…

      Canada's support of Israel's ghastly actions does in fact seriously erode our standing in the world and it also jeopardizes the safety of Canada and Canadians. Tell you what: if Israel and Israelis donate billions of dollars to Canada to help us in our time of budgetary crisis I might consider them friends or even allies, but as it stands it is a one way street, with Israel leeching money and our reputation and Canada getting nothing but grief in return.

      • David

        Boogard, do you know what a third world nation is? All you have to do is go to Israel and see its neighbours. You talk about censorship, how about these backward Muslim countries?? How about the recent Danish cartoon incident? How about the latest South Park incident where they dipicted Mohommed?? PLEASE!!!
        Nice quote. I can find a quote as well endorsing Israel by someone in Syria or Iran if needed.
        Does a third world nation have technology like Israel? Do they develop technologies like Israel?
        Your anti-Israel comments are pathetic and only support those Muslim terrorists.
        Think about this next time you turn on your computer using INTEL technology, this technology was developed in Israel.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/ZestyMordant ZestyMordant

      Who exactly are our common enemies?

      • John D

        Evil ;)

    • Justin

      I've seen your comments on other articles relating to the subject, and, although I'm not surprised, with a name like yours – you are ignorant and bigoted.
      Although I don't necessarily side with "backward Muslim countries," Netan-yahoo and the right-wing Israeli government is just as much a terrorist organization as any other group in this conflict, and disproportionately so. They just happen to be funded by rich western allies (including our tax dollars). You and Harper may have a lot in common with Israel, but many Canadians do not, and many of them are even from your so-called backward countries, or are simply well-educated and free-thinking.
      Harper has done very little good work for Canada, unless you are white, rich, conservative, and want to control the world (or, at least, Canada).

      • Justin

        I don't hate white people – I am white.

        I do dislike conservatives who prop up Harper and scream all-caps profanities. I'm disappointed, your previous post was so much more enlightened.

      • David

        Justin, great comment given you never met me. Ignorant! How??
        I agree that the right wing movement in Israel are not as flexible as the rest of the population, but labelling them as terrorists is wrong.
        And these backward Muslim countries do not get UN support that we pay into???
        At least now we Canadians have a leader that is not a disgrace to the rest of the world (i.e. Cretien!)

    • McC

      um <raises hand politely> Turkey is an ally too.

    • House

      "he shook hands with a terrorist "

      And while the US fought for and won it's Freedom (the American Revolution), those same Yanks were labelled 'terrorists' by the British. So what exactly is your point? By my estimation, even Harper has shaken hands with the leaders of the US. Or is it different now that they are so powerful? If a terrorist is someone who is under-funded, under-armed and who still fights with whatever they got, then every underdog in the world is a terrorist. It's time we start backing the 'little guy' rather than the 'big powerful guy'. Heck, even if you're jewish, dont you revere David more than you do Goliath? Funny thing is Israel IS Goliath now, and they dont even seem to realize that. Or perhaps they do, and that is the ultimate irony in it all? Im glad Chretien chose the side he did, just as I am glad he kept us out of Iraq. After all I've seen and heard, HArper and Cannon are talking puppets for the Jewish Lobby. And that does not define 'leader' to me.

      • House

        Further to my comment on 'terrorists', Ill compare the reasons why the British deemed the yanks to be terrorists, with how we label terrorists in our society today: The main reason for the labelling in the late 18th century was simply because the US, unable to fight the british fight (, dominated by numbers, lining up in rows and rows, firing innaccurate weapons at an opposing 'line' and hoping for the best) quickly adapted and found their own way to fight the war – Guerilla tactics. Surprising and raiding convoys en route to the battlefield; fighting in close quarters amongst trees and overgrowth; CAMOUFLAGE!!! These drastic changes to the way wars were previously fought left the British unable to plan, defend or attack according to their standard rules of engagement. Thus, they labelled their opponents 'savage' and 'ruthless'. Now compare that to what our North American Leaders claim about 'radicals' in the Middle East. The parallels are shocking. My how quickly the Americans forget their ancestry. And as for us Canadians, we shoulda stuck to peace keeping. Thats what the world needs more than wars.

  • sbt

    "A mob of demonstrating students and agitators forced the cancellation of his speech at Concordia University on Sept. 9, 2002. Netanyahu’s visit this week was his first to Canada since that fiasco."

    Are you sure? I swear I remember seeing him doing a one-on-one with Michael Coren while he was still opposition leader and the vote was at least a year away. Maybe 3 years ago? Definitely not 8 years ago.

  • ChrisDaFists

    Stick to hockey.

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Open_Democracy Open_Democracy

    I believe that Mr. Harper is pandering to the religious right who form an important part of his grassroots support. They would be terribly unhappy with Mr. Harper should he take a stance that was critical of Israel in any way. While our PM is able to keep his agenda under cover much of the time, it is his view on Israel in this situation that show us his true leanings.
    http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

    • Justin

      This answers the WHY, if anyone was still guessing.

  • James

    Wealthy well fed Europeans and Americans vactioning in other people’s misery. These people are despicable and dangerous; their anti semitism and anti Americanism are very well displayed. The Irish might have an excuse after all they absolutely wallow in terrorism in between getting peace prizes from Norway. Israel should stand up to these soldiers of Allah and not let them spread their vicious world view on anyone but their rich friends in Washington DC and Los Angeles.

  • Ryan

    Not going to get into the debate here, since the debate never seems to end anyway…

    I just wish to voice my support for the Israelis and I pray that Harper stands strong in his support of Israel as well.

    • Justin

      The essence of the conflict: don't debate it, just pray.

    • House

      And hey! Why bother educating yourself, when you can form rash, poorly-informed opinions, and throw your hands together in prayer instead? It amazes me, with all of the inteelect in this world, that religions still exist! i understand the personal faith aspect (as I am a VERY faithful person), but the majority of "mainstream" religions in this world today are no different than you're standard, drink-the-blue-koolaid cult that spends it's entire existence convincing people like yourself that you're right and everyone else is wrong. There's lots of good things in religion, but nowadays, those good points are seriously over-shadowed by the greed and power of a small group who utilize religion to keep people like Ryan 'under control'. Wake up, you have strings in your back, puppet!

  • Justin

    "wake me up when the shooting starts (and the arabs get their asses handed to them again)"

    Dude, that's exactly what happened. 9 of 'em (this time). Wake up already! That goes for the rest of you, Canada!

    • wsam

      They were Turks, not Arabs.

  • Wallace Cleaver

    Here is one of the few sensible comments I've seen in the press latel – Michael Den Tandt's column in this morning's paper:
    http://www.lfpress.com/comment/columnists/michael…

    • House

      Yeah, not a bad article. However I am loathe to admit that Palestinians renouncing 'terrorism' is reasonable. When the article labels their politically elected leaders as terrorists, I think it has missed the boat. In reality, if you are to make that statement, you must make the same for Israel – condemn it's elected leaders as terrorists, because surely it's easy to see how many more PAlestinians die each year at the hands of ISraeli's, when compared to the number of ISraeli's who lose their life at the hands of palestinians (the numbers arent even within an order of magnitude). And all those deaths are based on random, innaccurate rocket fire that is RARELY corroborated, nevermind being an effective tool of Palestinians. There is a fine line that shouldnt be crossed, but once you call one side of the 'war' terrorists, you have chosen your side. This is a war, and there are two sides. One side is superior to the other, and I expect nothing less fro mthe weak, when faced with the oppression that is forced upon them. Fighting a war on your own land should never be considered terrorism. PEriod.

  • Crit_Reasoning

    Results were promised within two weeks. It will soon be four months, and the Deloitte audit is nowhere to be seen.

    Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but they actually said three weeks. From the February 19th press release:

    Samson Belair/Deloitte & Touche representatives will begin the audit immediately, and expect to report with recommendations in three weeks. Results will be made public as soon as possible after the report is accepted by the board of directors, Gauthier said.

    Of course, since more than fifteen weeks have now passed, it hardly seems to matter. What happened to the frickin' audit, Mr. Gauthier?

    • Dot

      Was it you that mentioned once to be cautious about journalists who use three ellipses?

      Full quote from the Economist article (the unquoted clause replaced by the three ellipses by Wells are bolded)

      “It is hard to find a country friendlier to Israel than Canada these days,” said Avigdor Lieberman, Mr Netanyahu’s ultranationalist foreign minister, on a trip to Ottawa last year. “No other country in the world has demonstrated such a full understanding of us.” http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displayst…

      Golly gee! The way Wells quoted it, you'd think Lieberman was talking in context about the recent boarding of the Gaza bound ship, and R&D.

      And what to make of the fact that the Economist articloe was written in Ottawa? Another member of the cliquish PPG free lancing? Yeah to Manufactured Consent!

      But, to give Wells the credit he is due, he did keep his word. Three weeks ago to the date today, he tweeted that he would blog about R&D unless the board released the audit. The catastrophe in the Mediterranean was a bonus, and provided a convenient subtitle. I believe it is called a "hook" in the business.

    • Dot
  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Brammer Brammer

    Harper seems to relish polarizing and dividing this country whether it be along lines of religion, foreign policy, maternal health, or you name it. Israel is just one more checkmark on his list.

    Interesting flotilla parallels here:
    http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/06/02…

    and here
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/featur…

  • Holly Stick

    The Guardian reports that of the nine activists known to be killed (six are still missing) only one had a single gunshot wound. The nine bodies had a total of thirty gunshot wounds. Some of them were shot in the back of the head.

    It was not self-defense, it was murder.

    • Holly Stick

      "…The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back…"
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-…

  • s_c_f

    whether it makes a grain of sense to airlift commandos onto a ship in international waters as an effective expression of any country’s national sovereignty. Or whether the resulting lopsided carnage either reflects Israelis’ respect for human rights or advances their strategic interests.

    Talk about totally missing the point. The blockade has nothing to do with sovereignty. Secondly, there was no carnage until this particular boat came along. Thirdly, it has nothing to do with national interests.

    It has everything to do with safety. It's the same reason there is airport security with x-ray machines. Israelis are tired of missiles raining down on their towns and their heads. It's about dead Israelis. It's about safety. That is what it's about, and there's never been any indication otherwise. Wells thinks he's cornered the market on being disingenuous.

    Is Wells suggesting the airport x-ray machine is an expression of Canada's sovereignty, or is it just a safety measure? Is the airport x-ray machine an advancement of Canada's national interest?

    • jay

      How many people have airport x-ray machines shot?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/s_c_f s_c_f

        You missed the analogy. I'll have to spell it out for you. The xray machine is the blockade. The terrorist walking through the machine with a bomb is the terrorist on the boat hiding his Iranian-supplied missiles.

  • jarrid

    If one has to choose sides between Israel and Iran-backed Hamas and Hezbollah, the choice is patently obvious, if you beleive in democracy, the rule of law, respect for human rights, freedom of speech and expression, freedom of religion, equality of the sexes (the list goes on), in short democratic and western values, you back Israel.

    if you reject those things you back Hamas and Hezbollah, and return to an age of darkness. We've had one Holocaust in the 1940's, which was arguably the lowest point in recorded human history. Opposing Iran and its proxies in trying for an encore is a duty to not only our brothers and sisters in Israel but to all humankind.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

      jarrid, if one has to even think there is a choice between Israel and Hamas-Hezbollah, there us something wrong.

      • jarrid

        I agree. And I also think there is something wrong with why so many people fail to see it that way.

        Many Canadians are woefully ignorant of what's happening in the Middle East. The media doesn't help cure the ignorance either. Hezbollah and Hamas have completely radicalized southern Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank. Iran is using Palestinians for their own demented ends. People don't seem to get that, including, sad to say, people like Paul Wells. He thinks the Conservative Party's support for Israel is because of the influence of social conservatives in the party. Chantal Hebert thinks the same way,actually makes reference to it on her blog today. I appreciate Middle East politics isn't Paul and Chantal's area of expertise but one hardly needs to be an expert to see what's happening out there.

        Harper's stance on Israel has everything to do with clear-minded rational behaviour based on a full understanding of the facts and the stakes in the middle east. You certainly don't need to be a social conservative to appreciate those things. Your reference to Peter Kent's speech underlines this rather nicely. Peter Kent hardly strikes me as a social conservative.

        • Mulletaur

          "Harper's stance on Israel has everything to do with clear-minded rational behaviour based on a full understanding of the facts and the stakes in the middle east."

          Harper's stance on Israel has nothing to do with anything other than a willingness to do and say whatever it takes to win elections.

          • jarrid

            That's a pretty cynical comment. Also, I don't think it makes all that much sense. Jews tend to vote for left of center parties, the Democratic Party in the U.S. and the Liberal Party in Canada. And I should probably add overwhelmingly tend to vote that way. If Harper's pandering, the most that'll happen is that he'll get a somewhat higher percentage of the jewish vote. No way more than half. The jewish vote is such a small demographic in this country that you're talking switching, what, two or three seats. As I said it makes no sense.

            Conversely, backing Israel in its time of need is simply the right thing to do. I don't think it's more complicated than that.

          • Mulletaur

            I didn't say it was a particularly smart or good strategy, I just said it was Harper's strategy.

        • wsam

          I would include you, jarrid, in that list of Canadians who are woefully ignorant about the Middle East. I also doubt your reading comprehension.

    • AM2010

      But we don’t have to choose between them. I have problems with both the current Likud government of Israel and Hamas.

      • jarrid

        Ah, yes. The moral equivalency argument. The same argument that gave cover to the Soviet Union's regime while it oppressed its own people and other nations for some 70 years.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

          So your logic is essentially that we should commit genocide on anybody who disagrees with us. It's the only way to be sure?

          • wsam

            I think jarrid agrees with you.

    • http://intensedebate.com/people/anychildknows anychildknows

      just because one side is bad doesn't make the other good. that's Bush logic.

  • Val

    We either support Israel or we support the Muslims that want to destroy both us and them. I don't see how we can walk in the middle….Israel has been the subject of a truck load of lying propaganda. Compared to the harsh dictatorial Islamic countries, Israel is a beacon of light and decency. Give them a break! Siding with Islamic extremists is tantamount to siding with Hitler or Mussolini or Stalin. Kudos to Harper for standing with Israel.

    • Boogard

      Fortunately, one doesn't have to choose sides, one does what one does with the Hells Angels and Rock Machine: condemn and denounce either one depending on their latest atrocity.

      • David

        Boogard, one does have to choose sides. Open your eyes, read the papers. This religion wants to control the world (see Saudi Arabia and these other backward hypocritical countries) and want their culture to dominate the world (see Amersterdam, Sweden, France). Good for Quebec to pass a law forbidding people to cover their face!!! Canada and the rest of the west should follow this.
        How can you compare terrorism to the Hells' Angels?? Do the Hell's Angels believe in 72 virgins (another farce!!). Do they believe in suicide missions? If there is ANY reason to support Israel, it is because of the above. WAKE UP!!

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

    Odd. This comment appeared to "take" when I submitted, but then it became nowhere to be seen. Maybe it was the link I included. Here we go again, without any link:

    Putting the whole R&D mess aside (really it's time to take that whole beast out to the woodshed, like, over a decade ago), It seems many are puzzled why Canada should be an ally to Israel.

    Here is a pretty good answer to The Economist and its "unlikely ally" nonsense:
    (please google "peter kent economist israel canada" and check out the first item)

    • Dot

      "All politics is local".

      Here's a tip. If you are not familiar with Kent's Thornhill riding – take a virtual tour. Go to google maps, select streetview – pick the centre of the riding (Bathurst st – http://www.peterkent.ca/media/Thornhill%20Riding%… ) and have a look around. Notice any non english writing on signs, or significant places of worship?

      • http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

        With all due respect, the title ["unlikely ally"] couldn't be more wrong. As vibrant and democratic states in which the rule of law and human rights are observed and revered, Canada and Israel are the likeliest and the most natural of allies.

        I hope you are not suggesting that the above is a lie-filled rant whose sole purpose is to pander to a certain demographic who needs to feed on such a lie-filled rant.

        The truth is something that should be freely spoken anywhere and to anyone, my friend.

        • http://intensedebate.com/people/PhilCP Phil

          Despite the many challenges…however elusive it seems in the face of state-sponsored hate…we must maintain our belief that a fair and lasting peace is attainable… that Israel will, one day, live in peaceful co-existence with its neighbours – that a viable peace will become a reality for all the peoples of the Middle East.

          I'd like to hear more from Peter Kent about what this peaceful co-existence looks like.

        • Dot

          Was "thou shalt not lie in politics" part of the Ten Commandments, or is your interpretation of the new testament?

          Here, some background reading – it takes Wells' observations of the Conservative's target marketing from his earlier Macleans column/book further, without this R&D obsession that has poisoned his recent work, in my opinion.

          FROM SALES TO MARKETING:
          THE EVOLUTION OF THE PARTY
          PITCH
          Susan Delacourt and Alex Marland
          http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/sep09/delacourt.pd…

        • Dot

          Btw, in case you didn't clue in to my earlier tip – Kent's riding is the upper ed of this google map
          http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=&rlz=1B3GGGL_en…

  • Wascally Wabbit

    Well Mr. Wells – at least no-one has throw the anti-semetic epithet at you yet…but wait – I'm sure its lurking there somewhere (maybe even in the one comment that was already deleted!)
    Why are Harper and the current Israeli regime friends – and increasingly isolated ones at that? Because – to most informed observers – they are both neocon warbirds!
    Why is Netanyahu now boxed in a corner – and under pressure – from even former staunch friends like the US Administration who have been trying to broker peace – in the best interests of all sides? Because Netanyahu – like Harper – keeps making ideological decisions that reduce his credibility and his options.
    One such criticism in prestigious US journal – where the neocon term is used – where Netanyahu is called a thug (heck – Harper has been called soulless but never the th- word – yet) and an indication that the US Administration is prepared to recognize HAMAS and send peace negotiator George Mitchell there for the first time – as a direct result of Bibi's dumb over the top stunt! http://www.thenation.com/blog/gaza-its-not-about-…

  • Wascally Wabbit

    And a less inflammatory view from today's WaPo by Scott Wilson essentially saying that Israel's agenda and strategy is increasingly in conflict with Obama's approach – driving a divide between him and Netanyahu – rather than re-building trust – http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti…

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Skinny_Dipper Skinny Dipper

    Here's the "Welcome to Israel" greeters:

    [youtube sZ5-91kUu98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ5-91kUu98 youtube]

  • http://intensedebate.com/people/Skinny_Dipper Skinny Dipper

    "Israelis Celebrate 'Death to the Arabs' After the Attack on Aid Flotilla to Gaza."

    • David

      Where did you get this quote from? How about all the "celebrations" in these backward Muslim countries after 9-11?? This is why we should support and do support our allies!

    • MediaWatcher

      I know I was celebrating…

  • s_c_f

    Who cares if they've been inspected by Turkey? A lot of things can happen after the boat leaves Turkey. Are you serious?

    So what if they're filtering Gaza and not Israel? Who cares? If missiles are raining down on your country, you have the right to impose a blockade.

    But does this justify in principle that Israel can disregard a sovereign state's sovereignty to protect its own security?

    Are you kidding me? You must be joking right? You're asking if it's OK to instigate a blockade when missiles are raining down on your head. You must be joking.

    Here's a hint: if someone is about to shoot you in the head, you have the right to try to seize his gun. Doesn't matter if you're in international waters, doesn't matter whose gun it is, you're still allowed to seize it. Even if you don't yet know whether he will pull the trigger – if he's pointing it at you and he's shot others like you in the past, you're allowed to do something. You don't have to meekly step inside that railway car, like the Jews did on their way to Auschwitz, you don't have to wait until you're in the gas chamber before you react. You're allowed to take action to protect yourself.

    Excuse me Hamas, now that we've handed over complete control of Gaza for nothing in return, and now that you've used that gesture to use Gaza as a launching point for missiles at us, and you've declared that we have no right to exist so the missiles will never stop, we'd like to ask you permission to intercept those missiles before they reach your hands…. please? Oh, you say we're not allowed, because it's international waters? But what about launching missiles at us, is that not a violation of international law? Oh, you say that international law applies to us and not you? OK. You say that a boat inspection is much worse than a missile landing on your house? OK.

    Your comments are absurd. I feel dumber after reading them.

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