Beyond The Commons

Aaron Wherry covers all the goings-on in and around Parliament Hill. Follow Aaron on Twitter: @aaronwherry

Categories: Beyond The Commons, Capital Read

'So misinformed'

by Aaron Wherry on Monday, June 7, 2010 1:24pm - 38 Comments

In this new era of ministerial accountability, Senator James Cowan wrote to the Prime Minister last week to lament that Mr. Harper’s spokesman had publicly misstated the record of this Senate—and to explain exactly which pieces of legislation the upper chamber has passed this session. Mr. Cowan then pressed the matter at the Senate’s QP, eliciting the following from Senator Marjory LeBreton, government leader in the Senate.

I thank Senator Cowan for the question. I saw the article in La Presse yesterday and wondered how Mr. Soudas could be so misinformed about the work of the Senate. I raised the matter with colleagues in cabinet and in caucus. They acknowledged the great work done in the Senate and that more government bills have passed the Senate than the House of Commons. They are well aware of this effort. I have not had an opportunity to speak to Mr. Soudas and I regret that he was so misinformed. When I do speak to him directly, I intend to report that fact to him.

Tags: dimitri soudas, James Cowan, marjory lebreton, Parliament, Senate

More by Aaron Wherry

http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

This exchange right there is why we need the Senate. A place where partisan politics somehow doesn't have the power to actually change facts and reality. Way to go Ms. LeBreton!

On the funny side, Mr. Soudas is really gathering quite a list of people he needs to hide from.
http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

"When I do speak to him directly, I intend to report that fact to him."

Shyeah, she's going to have to find him first: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingn…

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

I've gone from Kenny Rogers to Rockapella in 3.2 seconds.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Fred_Moro Fred Moro

Can we get Dog the Bounty Hunter to find him, that would be a hell of an episode.

http://intensedebate.com/people/TJCook TJCook

Or at least an episode of Cops. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

"They acknowledged the great work done in the Senate and that more government bills have passed the Senate than the House of Commons."

I'm just floored by this statement. It directly contradicts absolutely everything that Harper and co. have said about the senate since they got elected.

It should be quoted from regularly by media and opposition every time Harper and the PMO try again to lie about the senate and the work it does.

It is one thing to think that the senate is in desperate need of modernization and reform, as I do, but quite another to take a scorched earth policy on the work it actually does do.

The endless and groundless attacks on Canada's democratic institutions by the Conservative MPs and PM must end.

http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

See, I find all this interesting, in particular given LeBreton's bio as a longtime PC and Conservative staffer, and that Harper himself appointed her Leader of the Government in Senate.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

Also quite interesting to note that this is the second time this week that Conservative senators have taken a different and independent view from the PM and the PMO, after one Conservative senator attacked Harper's elected senate strategy and cried out for more independence of the senators from the party.

Now if this had been a Liberal senator, all the commenters and media would have been saying what a weak leader Ignatieff was because his party's senators did not walk in lock-step with him.

However, I think that an independent senate is what was designed and not only is it/would it be no sign of comment on Harper's leadership but more independence would be a good thing for Canada.

The Real Jan

Was it Lowell Murrary complaining about the Budget bill? The PMO's been complaining the Senate is holding it up and it hasn't even been given to them yet. And he objected to being used as a rubber stamp on an omnibus bill just to facilitate quick passing. There's seem to be a little revolt happening in the Conservative caucus.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

I don't know what happened to my comment – it seems to have disappeared – but I was referring to Conservative senator Pierre Nolan's attack on Harper's plans for provincial elections of senators and calling for more independence of senators.

But that makes three in just a few days when you add Murray. And I liked what he said: "C-9 has been controversial even among some Conservatives. Hughes noted that Conservative senator Lowell Murray had stated ““no self-respecting or Parliament-respecting MP or senator should allow C-9 to go through as it is.”

The Real Jan

I've caught some of the committee meetings on CPAC – Nicholson can't cite any evidence that mandatory sentences are effective. He repeats, like a parrot – 'It sends a message' over and over again. Van Loan refused (when he was Public Safety) to appear. And Toews basically denied there would be any increased costs to the system (and he says it with a straight face). And he claimed the provinces were on board, and it turns out they're concerned about – the increased costs being passed onto them.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

Oh Lordy. Good for Murray. But I realize I now have more agreement on this subject with a Conservative Senator, than I do with my own leader. It's probably a good thing, really (all Conservatives aren't the evil spawn of Satan after all :) ) but it does tend to mess with the equilibrium a bit. I suspect I could get used to it, though.

http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

Welcome to the Dark Side, Jenn…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

NOOO! Quick, anybody got a really lame quote from Baird, Harper, or the other usual suspects they can toss me right now?
The Real Jan

Just say 'fake lake' 3 times. It's the new antidote.
http://intensedebate.com/people/madeyoulook madeyoulook

Jenn, I find your lack of faith… disturbing.

You wanted Quotes:

"A coalition if necessary…"
"…until I'm done messing with you."

Join me, Jenn. Together we could unleash the full power of the force and rule the galaxy…
http://intensedebate.com/people/Jenn_ Jenn_

You shall never be my father!
madeyoulook

Search your feelings, Jenn. You know it to be true.

The Real Jan

And Jacques Demers has spoken out against the juvenile crime bill. Harper seems to have a small revolt on his hands.

burlivespipe

They better reach for the sabres; i don't think 'night of the long knives' was about a senate-sparked coup…

wellwell

Sou-sou-soud(i)as.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

Aaron, Shame on both you and Senator LeBreton for attempting to humiliate young Dimitri! How in the world is he expected to know what has passed in the Senate. He was probably off skateboarding somewhere while those bills were passed. And budget bills… come on nobody reads or follows those. I am just so sick of you old folk pickin on the kids.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

It is just another blatant attempt to "humiliate and intimidate" Conservative staffers who are accountable to their Ministers.

http://intensedebate.com/people/OntarioTown OntarioTown

Ya, poor little baby 31 year old who I believe is married with kids. Poor baby boo boo.

And yet, 19 year olds go off to war.

danby

Dimitri Soudas is to integrity and honesty as Stephen Harper is to accountability and transparency

http://intensedebate.com/people/Stewart_Smith Stewart_Smith

Actually Dimitri is completely transparent.

that is why he is so hard to find.

Wallace Cleaver

more government bills have passed the Senate than the House of Commons

Apparently, if we want more effective government, we should stop electing MPs and just have them appointed…

Craig O

Democracy yields some wonderful things, but expediency and respectful discourse aren't usually among them.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

No wonder Harper doesn't like it.

Boogard

As long as you and your comrades support an unelected, undemocratic, dictatorial senate (for the specific reason of thwarting the will of the people) we'll always be able to paint you as anti-democratic, and the people will believe us, because unlike your accusation that Harper is anti-democratic, it's true.

http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

Funny how you consider our Constitution to be anti-democratic.

As long as you and your comrades continue to attack our Constitution and our form of government and our Parliamentary democracy and act as though you are above the law (for the specific reason of thwarting the highest law of the land) we'll always be able to paint you as anti-democratic, and the people will believe us, because unlike your accusation that our Constitution is anti-democratic, it's true.
Boogard

Well of course it's anti-democratic, we've never voted on it, it restricts the will of the people, ergo, anti-democratic.

Except for the notwithstanding clause that the Liberals promised to abolish (because they are anti-democratic), which allows for parliament to be supreme, which it should be. Many if not most modern countries allow a vote on their constitution, we never have. I affirm this to be undemocratic, your mileage may vary.

We already have an elected Senator in the Senate, the precedent is set, and if the non-democratic, unelected Supreme Court has a problem with elected Senators, tough; sovereignty lies with the Canadian people, not pieces of paper, nor unelected judges and Senators.

But all that aside, why so conservative Ted? The Constitution specifies Senators must be male (note gender specific language) and appears to disqualify immigrants, see Sec. 23, (2):
"(2) He shall be either a natural-born Subject of the Queen, or a Subject of the Queen naturalized by an Act of the Parliament of Great Britain, or of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, or of the Legislature of One of the Provinces of Upper Canada, Lower Canada, Canada, Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, before the Union, or of the Parliament of Canada after the Union:"

and also Sec. 31 (2):

"(2) If he takes an Oath or makes a Declaration or Acknowledgment of Allegiance, Obedience, or Adherence to a Foreign Power, or does an Act whereby he becomes a Subject or Citizen, or entitled to the Rights or Privileges of a Subject or Citizen, of a Foreign Power:"

The preceding paragraph would seem to preclude Senators Vim Kochhar, Anne Cools, Mac Harb, Consiglio Di Nino, and Vivienne Poy, among others, all or some of whom retain dual citizenship. I think this is a little xenophobic, but your mileage may vary.
http://intensedebate.com/people/tedbetts tedbetts

So as long as a majority want to do something, screw the law, screw the Constitution? Oh, yeah, sooooo very democratic of you. I'm certainly not going to take lessons in democracy from someone who thinks laws and Constitutions are merely pieces of paper. 'Tis to laugh. 'Tis to laugh.

Problem for you is, that a majority of Canadians do believe in Canada, Canadian democracy, laws and Constitutions and know they have value. Problem for your argument is that a majority does not support an elected senate. Heck, even some of Harper's own senator's know that what Harper's proposing is unconstitutional and unworkable.
http://intensedebate.com/people/Thwim Thwim

Yeah! And all those judges! Why those are undemocratic too! And police officers, I never voted for that officer who gave me a speeding ticket! To the pitchforks people!
http://intensedebate.com/people/LynnTO LynnTO

Dictatorial Senate? Are you moonlighting at Yuk Yuk's? Because that's funny.

They're not thwarting the will of the people. This entire thread is about how the Senate has actually been following through on the will of the people – as defined by the laws and processes drafted by the government and sponsored by the house – more than the Commons itself.

The Senate doesn't dictate squat in Canadian democracy.

http://www.TennisVagabond.com Big Dave S

This could be Lebreton just getting a crack back, or it could be the first crack in the Harper wall. There is no way Harper brings a hammer down on her; she won't take it, as a Senator she has too much independence, and she's too well connected herself. But perhaps this emboldens other conservatives who are sick of the country being run out of Harper's lying communications office.
Andrew (not P or C)

So which Minister is stepping forward to take responsibility for Soudas' lies as their own?